• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:30
CET 07:30
KST 15:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation12Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion What happened to TvZ on Retro? Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2139 users

Dustin Browder WCS TL Interview - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
605 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 31 Next All
Sleet
Profile Joined January 2011
United States139 Posts
November 20 2012 14:26 GMT
#321
I actually play T, so I am looking at this from the other side of the situation than you. It is actually very simple not to build Ultras vs what you know is going to be a mostly Thor army, or even an army with a decent amount of Thors. I don't know why you would attempt to counter a "mass-Thor" army (when there really is no viability in that anyway) with the unit Thors are meant to counter in the Z race: ultralisks. And don't dismiss that point by saying "Oh well I'm not playing in the GSL obv!" No shit man!



There is, maybe you should try it. And I was telling you things I've tried to do that DIDN'T work, you're getting off track. My point was that 1. A lot of thors(with tanks and hellions obviously, no one just builds one unit to fight with unless it's marines) is powerful before you have a lot of broodlords. 2. Neural/infested terrans are the only things good against large numbers of powerful units units like thors(again, before hive). That's why, as a zerg, it sucks that both of those options are potentially going to be taken away according to the Rock in this interview. That was it.
@SLeetscgames
Raid
Profile Joined September 2010
United States398 Posts
November 20 2012 14:27 GMT
#322
seeker missile without upgrade is huge! totally gonna be a big change for TvZ and TvT.
4ZakeN87
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden1071 Posts
November 20 2012 14:29 GMT
#323
On November 20 2012 23:23 FrogOfWar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2012 23:07 Hylirion wrote:
On November 20 2012 23:00 bluQ wrote:
On November 20 2012 22:58 stAMy wrote:
This is good for balance, riiiiiight. Omg did anyone count how many times he said "RIGHT"? :p

It were many riiiight!


Someone on reddit made it easy for you! I love the 'I could be wrong' at 0.06 lol.



They just have to use that for some unit voice in HotS. "We need more minerals, right?"


Hehe good stuff ^^
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" Einstein
Samp
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada783 Posts
November 20 2012 14:30 GMT
#324
So you cant fungal DTs, archons and warp prism, that so terrible. Warp Prism with speed already outspeed the corruptors, theres will be no way for a zerg to stop drops, imagine even DT drops...Also Zealot/archon pushes will be way stonger if u cant fungal archons. Some of that stuff doesnt make sense..
Banelings, "They're cute, they live in a nest". -Artosis
MavivaM
Profile Joined November 2011
1535 Posts
November 20 2012 14:31 GMT
#325
Good interview, very good questions, very... ehr, interesting answers.
I'd really like to know what was passing trough your mind when hearing them, Monk: personally I would have raged hard, but I won't ever be an interviewer, luckly enough!
If my impression is correct you can be a sneaky individual, especially considering Parting's issue.
But maybe it's just my impression, it's up to you to confirm or not.

About Dustin... I don't know, seriously: on one side apparently I fail to realise that balancing is harder than what I expect and that he must be an intelligent guy (and we cannot judge someone we don't know with some interviews on the internet), but on the other side his approach always leaves me speechless.
It's not his political approach when answering, it's the fact that he doesn't even consider some things as a problem, at all.
I'm pretty sure that up until now he didn't even have an idea about the issue you point out at around 03:54, nor he did paid particular attention to the maps except for their overall dimensions.
I also don't think he has a real idea about the progamers scene, if we exclude the important matches in GSL and semifnals/finals all around, nor he has even played a game as a zerg against a won-won-won.

About statistics, the issue is way more complex: oftentimes we don't take many things in consideration, such as the players' openings in every game... I can see why Dustin is taking it slow.

But as always, the real issue stays around: there are units who can change the match despite the opponents' skill, like Morrow and a moltitude of users already pointed out in the past.
The mothership and the infestors are finally being targeted (?), the sentry instead is obviously and conveniently ignored.
Browder talks about "baiting FFs", as it could work, for example, against good proplayers who are committing to an all-in.
Not buying it.

On the good side of things I like his talking about design instead of balancing for HoTS: issues like the sentry one have to be prevented instead of being solved, since I don't see any hint about Blizzard fixing it.
We can hope, at least, that the expansion won't bring other design problem as well.
It's a good step in the right direction, at least.

The correction on the zerg side look strange, at least regarding neural parasyte.
Nothing is really said about the infested terran and while fungal is slightly broken (at least imo) we have still to realise that's the only way zerg can limit the forcefield hellfest.
I can't still see why a slow effect instead of a complete freeze wouldn't work, especially considering that not all battles are on creep.
The projectile animation seems more than reasonable, not being able to freeze/slow warp prisms or medivacs is absolute bullshit.
Again, great interview even if it leaves me with a bad feeling overall
Your Opinion has been counted. Only 3 more Opinions needed for a reddit thread.
Fission
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1184 Posts
November 20 2012 14:33 GMT
#326
Good interview, thanks Monk.
oneill12
Profile Joined February 2012
Romania1222 Posts
November 20 2012 14:35 GMT
#327
nice reasoning, hope it works!
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1341 Posts
November 20 2012 14:40 GMT
#328
thanks!

the hero unit MS is out of e-sports. awesome! :D
4ZakeN87
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 14:44:35
November 20 2012 14:41 GMT
#329
On November 20 2012 23:31 MavivaM wrote:
Good interview, very good questions, very... ehr, interesting answers.
I'd really like to know what was passing trough your mind when hearing them, Monk: personally I would have raged hard, but I won't ever be an interviewer, luckly enough!
If my impression is correct you can be a sneaky individual, especially considering Parting's issue.
But maybe it's just my impression, it's up to you to confirm or not.

About Dustin... I don't know, seriously: on one side apparently I fail to realise that balancing is harder than what I expect and that he must be an intelligent guy (and we cannot judge someone we don't know with some interviews on the internet), but on the other side his approach always leaves me speechless.
It's not his political approach when answering, it's the fact that he doesn't even consider some things as a problem, at all.
I'm pretty sure that up until now he didn't even have an idea about the issue you point out at around 03:54, nor he did paid particular attention to the maps except for their overall dimensions.
I also don't think he has a real idea about the progamers scene, if we exclude the important matches in GSL and semifnals/finals all around, nor he has even played a game as a zerg against a won-won-won.

About statistics, the issue is way more complex: oftentimes we don't take many things in consideration, such as the players' openings in every game... I can see why Dustin is taking it slow.

But as always, the real issue stays around: there are units who can change the match despite the opponents' skill, like Morrow and a moltitude of users already pointed out in the past.
The mothership and the infestors are finally being targeted (?), the sentry instead is obviously and conveniently ignored.
Browder talks about "baiting FFs", as it could work, for example, against good proplayers who are committing to an all-in.
Not buying it.

On the good side of things I like his talking about design instead of balancing for HoTS: issues like the sentry one have to be prevented instead of being solved, since I don't see any hint about Blizzard fixing it.
We can hope, at least, that the expansion won't bring other design problem as well.
It's a good step in the right direction, at least.

The correction on the zerg side look strange, at least regarding neural parasyte.
Nothing is really said about the infested terran and while fungal is slightly broken (at least imo) we have still to realise that's the only way zerg can limit the forcefield hellfest.
I can't still see why a slow effect instead of a complete freeze wouldn't work, especially considering that not all battles are on creep.
The projectile animation seems more than reasonable, not being able to freeze/slow warp prisms or medivacs is absolute bullshit.
Again, great interview even if it leaves me with a bad feeling overall


Your expectations is stupid high, he was asked like 50 different questions considering everthing from certain situations in different matchups, map issues to over arching ideas of development of races in HoTS and is expected to answer within a second.

Saying, "how could he not have thought about this specific thing" is very easy. One thing, and you have potentially hours to adjust and edit the response to perfection.

Doing an interview regarding a wide and complex matters and being put on the spot over and over, that is very hard. Very few people on this forum would be able to do it even remotely as well and I think that a certain acknowledgment is in order.

Although that is a very rare phenomena on TL and the internet in general.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" Einstein
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2954 Posts
November 20 2012 14:42 GMT
#330
Hm... With a slow instead of a immobilize, would fungal still prevent Stalkers from blinking?
I mean, few month back, before the Zerg realized that infestors are actually fucking awesome, (and it took a long time for them to realize, tbh) Blink Stalker All-ins were kinda impossible to hold if well executed. Blink micro just destroyed everything as long as the Zerg didn't have any infestors.
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
November 20 2012 14:43 GMT
#331
riiight?
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
PuroStrife
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Korea (North)199 Posts
November 20 2012 14:45 GMT
#332
The technology just isn't there yet :o
The legendary OG 5: Anathan, Jesse, Johan, Sebastien and Topias.
theSAiNT
Profile Joined July 2009
United States726 Posts
November 20 2012 14:45 GMT
#333
Does he come across as stupid in person as he does based on his answers? (Why do people assume he's intelligent?)
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 14:53:03
November 20 2012 14:50 GMT
#334
No more fungal on dark templar...Bisu build inc?

Thank god for Antoine & Monk with the thorough interviews.
Jjhg
Profile Joined October 2012
11 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 16:57:38
November 20 2012 14:52 GMT
#335
The biggest problem with SC2 is the Immortal. It's such a retarded unit that makes Mech impossible against Protoss.

Being forced into MMM or die is just boring. Not like anyone cares about Terran anymore anyway, so long as Protoss and Zerg A-move babbies are happy.

User was warned for this post

User was banned for terrible history.
4ZakeN87
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 14:57:26
November 20 2012 14:53 GMT
#336
On November 20 2012 23:45 theSAiNT wrote: Does he come across as stupid in person as he does based on his answers? (Why do people assume he's intelligent?)


I think it is one of these things that comes easier to people that are intelligent x) Seriously, I would like to see you do such an interview, then I think you would realize why people think he is intelligent.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" Einstein
Shinespark
Profile Joined June 2011
Chile843 Posts
November 20 2012 14:54 GMT
#337
Ghost can never be an answer to Infestor cause there's no way in hell it's getting anywhere near close enough to cast EMP on the infestors unless you have cloak and your opponent doesn't have detection, but if he doesn't then he deserves to lose anyway.

Just nerf fungal ffs.
"I, for one, welcome our new Korean overlords."
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
November 20 2012 14:56 GMT
#338
Yay go TL.
Really nice interview, made me look really forward to their balancing. My personal favorite is the non intentional slap towards the community (No way did he meant it offensively) about making Fungal easier to use, because the community said it is bad. And now it turned out that the community caused one of the biggest flaws in the game. What I dislike the most about Fungal was there since the spell was made a lockdown.
Though I see it how I want, because there is many stuff the community ruined for me personally by making units to easy to use for my taste. Still bitter about the Immortal range buff, but it is good to know that because of this the Immortal is causing a ton of headaches everywhere.
But thats how community supported game development works, at the end not everyone will like one part or the other. But it will be a game that the majority can approve. But it still feels good to say told you so.
macncheezeplz
Profile Joined June 2011
United States93 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 14:58:27
November 20 2012 14:57 GMT
#339
Browder mentioned the problem of interceptors dying to fungal. He also mentioned that changing fungal from a lockdown to a slow spell wouldn't make that much of a difference. Wouldn't only slowing down interceptors and not rendering them useless be a BIG change? I would love to hear what Browder has to say on the matter.
BlueLanterna
Profile Joined April 2011
291 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 15:01:40
November 20 2012 14:57 GMT
#340
On November 20 2012 23:26 the.toninator wrote:
Show nested quote +
I actually play T, so I am looking at this from the other side of the situation than you. It is actually very simple not to build Ultras vs what you know is going to be a mostly Thor army, or even an army with a decent amount of Thors. I don't know why you would attempt to counter a "mass-Thor" army (when there really is no viability in that anyway) with the unit Thors are meant to counter in the Z race: ultralisks. And don't dismiss that point by saying "Oh well I'm not playing in the GSL obv!" No shit man!



There is, maybe you should try it. And I was telling you things I've tried to do that DIDN'T work, you're getting off track. My point was that 1. A lot of thors(with tanks and hellions obviously, no one just builds one unit to fight with unless it's marines) is powerful before you have a lot of broodlords. 2. Neural/infested terrans are the only things good against large numbers of powerful units units like thors(again, before hive). That's why, as a zerg, it sucks that both of those options are potentially going to be taken away according to the Rock in this interview. That was it.


Your argument is fundamentally flawed because by the time T has enough thors + hellions + tanks to be dangerous enough to kill you, you should have the BL/Corruptor/Infestor comp to counter it unless you've done a terrible job defending hellions which only takes spine crawlers at each base or roaches. You as the zerg player should be able to get that composition up just as quickly as a T who needs like 7-8 factories. And neural/infested Terrans are not the only good thing against Thors before Hive, ever heard of roach counters like I just posted about? or surrounds? counter attacks? mutalisk magic boxing before there is a critical mass of thors? You are not suddenly going to lose every time vs mech because you get weaker free units possibly from ITs, or because a spell that puts you within range to get your infestor owned anyway is getting removed.

Edit: And there is no such thing as a "large amount of Thors" before Hive unless you've done nothing but mass Thors the entire game, or the Z player is deliberately not getting Hive to mass roaches or something
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 31 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 30m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 162
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 9297
actioN 1573
Shuttle 748
Larva 545
PianO 229
Bale 36
NotJumperer 9
Dota 2
monkeys_forever483
XaKoH 418
NeuroSwarm161
League of Legends
JimRising 586
Other Games
summit1g14794
C9.Mang0434
WinterStarcraft377
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick998
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 72
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo868
• Stunt437
• HappyZerGling117
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
3h 30m
RSL Revival
3h 30m
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
5h 30m
Cure vs Reynor
Classic vs herO
IPSL
10h 30m
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
OSC
12h 30m
BSL 21
13h 30m
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 3h
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
1d 5h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 5h
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
1d 13h
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
1d 13h
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 16h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL: GosuLeague
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.