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Dustin Browder WCS TL Interview - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
605 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 31 Next All
Sleet
Profile Joined January 2011
United States139 Posts
November 20 2012 14:26 GMT
#321
I actually play T, so I am looking at this from the other side of the situation than you. It is actually very simple not to build Ultras vs what you know is going to be a mostly Thor army, or even an army with a decent amount of Thors. I don't know why you would attempt to counter a "mass-Thor" army (when there really is no viability in that anyway) with the unit Thors are meant to counter in the Z race: ultralisks. And don't dismiss that point by saying "Oh well I'm not playing in the GSL obv!" No shit man!



There is, maybe you should try it. And I was telling you things I've tried to do that DIDN'T work, you're getting off track. My point was that 1. A lot of thors(with tanks and hellions obviously, no one just builds one unit to fight with unless it's marines) is powerful before you have a lot of broodlords. 2. Neural/infested terrans are the only things good against large numbers of powerful units units like thors(again, before hive). That's why, as a zerg, it sucks that both of those options are potentially going to be taken away according to the Rock in this interview. That was it.
@SLeetscgames
Raid
Profile Joined September 2010
United States398 Posts
November 20 2012 14:27 GMT
#322
seeker missile without upgrade is huge! totally gonna be a big change for TvZ and TvT.
4ZakeN87
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden1071 Posts
November 20 2012 14:29 GMT
#323
On November 20 2012 23:23 FrogOfWar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2012 23:07 Hylirion wrote:
On November 20 2012 23:00 bluQ wrote:
On November 20 2012 22:58 stAMy wrote:
This is good for balance, riiiiiight. Omg did anyone count how many times he said "RIGHT"? :p

It were many riiiight!


Someone on reddit made it easy for you! I love the 'I could be wrong' at 0.06 lol.



They just have to use that for some unit voice in HotS. "We need more minerals, right?"


Hehe good stuff ^^
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" Einstein
Samp
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada783 Posts
November 20 2012 14:30 GMT
#324
So you cant fungal DTs, archons and warp prism, that so terrible. Warp Prism with speed already outspeed the corruptors, theres will be no way for a zerg to stop drops, imagine even DT drops...Also Zealot/archon pushes will be way stonger if u cant fungal archons. Some of that stuff doesnt make sense..
Banelings, "They're cute, they live in a nest". -Artosis
MavivaM
Profile Joined November 2011
1535 Posts
November 20 2012 14:31 GMT
#325
Good interview, very good questions, very... ehr, interesting answers.
I'd really like to know what was passing trough your mind when hearing them, Monk: personally I would have raged hard, but I won't ever be an interviewer, luckly enough!
If my impression is correct you can be a sneaky individual, especially considering Parting's issue.
But maybe it's just my impression, it's up to you to confirm or not.

About Dustin... I don't know, seriously: on one side apparently I fail to realise that balancing is harder than what I expect and that he must be an intelligent guy (and we cannot judge someone we don't know with some interviews on the internet), but on the other side his approach always leaves me speechless.
It's not his political approach when answering, it's the fact that he doesn't even consider some things as a problem, at all.
I'm pretty sure that up until now he didn't even have an idea about the issue you point out at around 03:54, nor he did paid particular attention to the maps except for their overall dimensions.
I also don't think he has a real idea about the progamers scene, if we exclude the important matches in GSL and semifnals/finals all around, nor he has even played a game as a zerg against a won-won-won.

About statistics, the issue is way more complex: oftentimes we don't take many things in consideration, such as the players' openings in every game... I can see why Dustin is taking it slow.

But as always, the real issue stays around: there are units who can change the match despite the opponents' skill, like Morrow and a moltitude of users already pointed out in the past.
The mothership and the infestors are finally being targeted (?), the sentry instead is obviously and conveniently ignored.
Browder talks about "baiting FFs", as it could work, for example, against good proplayers who are committing to an all-in.
Not buying it.

On the good side of things I like his talking about design instead of balancing for HoTS: issues like the sentry one have to be prevented instead of being solved, since I don't see any hint about Blizzard fixing it.
We can hope, at least, that the expansion won't bring other design problem as well.
It's a good step in the right direction, at least.

The correction on the zerg side look strange, at least regarding neural parasyte.
Nothing is really said about the infested terran and while fungal is slightly broken (at least imo) we have still to realise that's the only way zerg can limit the forcefield hellfest.
I can't still see why a slow effect instead of a complete freeze wouldn't work, especially considering that not all battles are on creep.
The projectile animation seems more than reasonable, not being able to freeze/slow warp prisms or medivacs is absolute bullshit.
Again, great interview even if it leaves me with a bad feeling overall
Your Opinion has been counted. Only 3 more Opinions needed for a reddit thread.
Fission
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1184 Posts
November 20 2012 14:33 GMT
#326
Good interview, thanks Monk.
oneill12
Profile Joined February 2012
Romania1222 Posts
November 20 2012 14:35 GMT
#327
nice reasoning, hope it works!
Decendos
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany1341 Posts
November 20 2012 14:40 GMT
#328
thanks!

the hero unit MS is out of e-sports. awesome! :D
4ZakeN87
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 14:44:35
November 20 2012 14:41 GMT
#329
On November 20 2012 23:31 MavivaM wrote:
Good interview, very good questions, very... ehr, interesting answers.
I'd really like to know what was passing trough your mind when hearing them, Monk: personally I would have raged hard, but I won't ever be an interviewer, luckly enough!
If my impression is correct you can be a sneaky individual, especially considering Parting's issue.
But maybe it's just my impression, it's up to you to confirm or not.

About Dustin... I don't know, seriously: on one side apparently I fail to realise that balancing is harder than what I expect and that he must be an intelligent guy (and we cannot judge someone we don't know with some interviews on the internet), but on the other side his approach always leaves me speechless.
It's not his political approach when answering, it's the fact that he doesn't even consider some things as a problem, at all.
I'm pretty sure that up until now he didn't even have an idea about the issue you point out at around 03:54, nor he did paid particular attention to the maps except for their overall dimensions.
I also don't think he has a real idea about the progamers scene, if we exclude the important matches in GSL and semifnals/finals all around, nor he has even played a game as a zerg against a won-won-won.

About statistics, the issue is way more complex: oftentimes we don't take many things in consideration, such as the players' openings in every game... I can see why Dustin is taking it slow.

But as always, the real issue stays around: there are units who can change the match despite the opponents' skill, like Morrow and a moltitude of users already pointed out in the past.
The mothership and the infestors are finally being targeted (?), the sentry instead is obviously and conveniently ignored.
Browder talks about "baiting FFs", as it could work, for example, against good proplayers who are committing to an all-in.
Not buying it.

On the good side of things I like his talking about design instead of balancing for HoTS: issues like the sentry one have to be prevented instead of being solved, since I don't see any hint about Blizzard fixing it.
We can hope, at least, that the expansion won't bring other design problem as well.
It's a good step in the right direction, at least.

The correction on the zerg side look strange, at least regarding neural parasyte.
Nothing is really said about the infested terran and while fungal is slightly broken (at least imo) we have still to realise that's the only way zerg can limit the forcefield hellfest.
I can't still see why a slow effect instead of a complete freeze wouldn't work, especially considering that not all battles are on creep.
The projectile animation seems more than reasonable, not being able to freeze/slow warp prisms or medivacs is absolute bullshit.
Again, great interview even if it leaves me with a bad feeling overall


Your expectations is stupid high, he was asked like 50 different questions considering everthing from certain situations in different matchups, map issues to over arching ideas of development of races in HoTS and is expected to answer within a second.

Saying, "how could he not have thought about this specific thing" is very easy. One thing, and you have potentially hours to adjust and edit the response to perfection.

Doing an interview regarding a wide and complex matters and being put on the spot over and over, that is very hard. Very few people on this forum would be able to do it even remotely as well and I think that a certain acknowledgment is in order.

Although that is a very rare phenomena on TL and the internet in general.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" Einstein
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2956 Posts
November 20 2012 14:42 GMT
#330
Hm... With a slow instead of a immobilize, would fungal still prevent Stalkers from blinking?
I mean, few month back, before the Zerg realized that infestors are actually fucking awesome, (and it took a long time for them to realize, tbh) Blink Stalker All-ins were kinda impossible to hold if well executed. Blink micro just destroyed everything as long as the Zerg didn't have any infestors.
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
November 20 2012 14:43 GMT
#331
riiight?
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
PuroStrife
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Korea (North)199 Posts
November 20 2012 14:45 GMT
#332
The technology just isn't there yet :o
The legendary OG 5: Anathan, Jesse, Johan, Sebastien and Topias.
theSAiNT
Profile Joined July 2009
United States726 Posts
November 20 2012 14:45 GMT
#333
Does he come across as stupid in person as he does based on his answers? (Why do people assume he's intelligent?)
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 14:53:03
November 20 2012 14:50 GMT
#334
No more fungal on dark templar...Bisu build inc?

Thank god for Antoine & Monk with the thorough interviews.
Jjhg
Profile Joined October 2012
11 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 16:57:38
November 20 2012 14:52 GMT
#335
The biggest problem with SC2 is the Immortal. It's such a retarded unit that makes Mech impossible against Protoss.

Being forced into MMM or die is just boring. Not like anyone cares about Terran anymore anyway, so long as Protoss and Zerg A-move babbies are happy.

User was warned for this post

User was banned for terrible history.
4ZakeN87
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 14:57:26
November 20 2012 14:53 GMT
#336
On November 20 2012 23:45 theSAiNT wrote: Does he come across as stupid in person as he does based on his answers? (Why do people assume he's intelligent?)


I think it is one of these things that comes easier to people that are intelligent x) Seriously, I would like to see you do such an interview, then I think you would realize why people think he is intelligent.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" Einstein
Shinespark
Profile Joined June 2011
Chile843 Posts
November 20 2012 14:54 GMT
#337
Ghost can never be an answer to Infestor cause there's no way in hell it's getting anywhere near close enough to cast EMP on the infestors unless you have cloak and your opponent doesn't have detection, but if he doesn't then he deserves to lose anyway.

Just nerf fungal ffs.
"I, for one, welcome our new Korean overlords."
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
November 20 2012 14:56 GMT
#338
Yay go TL.
Really nice interview, made me look really forward to their balancing. My personal favorite is the non intentional slap towards the community (No way did he meant it offensively) about making Fungal easier to use, because the community said it is bad. And now it turned out that the community caused one of the biggest flaws in the game. What I dislike the most about Fungal was there since the spell was made a lockdown.
Though I see it how I want, because there is many stuff the community ruined for me personally by making units to easy to use for my taste. Still bitter about the Immortal range buff, but it is good to know that because of this the Immortal is causing a ton of headaches everywhere.
But thats how community supported game development works, at the end not everyone will like one part or the other. But it will be a game that the majority can approve. But it still feels good to say told you so.
macncheezeplz
Profile Joined June 2011
United States93 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 14:58:27
November 20 2012 14:57 GMT
#339
Browder mentioned the problem of interceptors dying to fungal. He also mentioned that changing fungal from a lockdown to a slow spell wouldn't make that much of a difference. Wouldn't only slowing down interceptors and not rendering them useless be a BIG change? I would love to hear what Browder has to say on the matter.
BlueLanterna
Profile Joined April 2011
291 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 15:01:40
November 20 2012 14:57 GMT
#340
On November 20 2012 23:26 the.toninator wrote:
Show nested quote +
I actually play T, so I am looking at this from the other side of the situation than you. It is actually very simple not to build Ultras vs what you know is going to be a mostly Thor army, or even an army with a decent amount of Thors. I don't know why you would attempt to counter a "mass-Thor" army (when there really is no viability in that anyway) with the unit Thors are meant to counter in the Z race: ultralisks. And don't dismiss that point by saying "Oh well I'm not playing in the GSL obv!" No shit man!



There is, maybe you should try it. And I was telling you things I've tried to do that DIDN'T work, you're getting off track. My point was that 1. A lot of thors(with tanks and hellions obviously, no one just builds one unit to fight with unless it's marines) is powerful before you have a lot of broodlords. 2. Neural/infested terrans are the only things good against large numbers of powerful units units like thors(again, before hive). That's why, as a zerg, it sucks that both of those options are potentially going to be taken away according to the Rock in this interview. That was it.


Your argument is fundamentally flawed because by the time T has enough thors + hellions + tanks to be dangerous enough to kill you, you should have the BL/Corruptor/Infestor comp to counter it unless you've done a terrible job defending hellions which only takes spine crawlers at each base or roaches. You as the zerg player should be able to get that composition up just as quickly as a T who needs like 7-8 factories. And neural/infested Terrans are not the only good thing against Thors before Hive, ever heard of roach counters like I just posted about? or surrounds? counter attacks? mutalisk magic boxing before there is a critical mass of thors? You are not suddenly going to lose every time vs mech because you get weaker free units possibly from ITs, or because a spell that puts you within range to get your infestor owned anyway is getting removed.

Edit: And there is no such thing as a "large amount of Thors" before Hive unless you've done nothing but mass Thors the entire game, or the Z player is deliberately not getting Hive to mass roaches or something
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