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I'm convinced, however, that the skill level of female tournaments being lower is a result of the sample group being lower.
Bingo yes.
That's why comparison between two genders is just wrong.
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I really don't think females take the harshest criticism... I'm actually shocked how well the disproportionate amount of transgender females have been received.
I totally support female tournaments/players/hosts/casters/teams as long as they support themselves. If they are fiscally draining other SC2 resources then I have a problem with it. Frankly I think the "female" angle is a poor investment avenue for SC but if there is a niche that can support itself I'm all for it. What I don't want is a an "IPL 6 - ladies invitational" which drains stream time/player salary/caster salary but isn't paying for itself. If people prefer watching a clueless bimbo prance around on stage than some amazing host commentator; then frankly the girl is better qualified and deserves the job. NB: that's not a commentary on that twitter feud, the female actually handled herself very well in comparison to that idiot (outside of her comparing herself to an affirmative action beneficiary).
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On November 20 2012 05:20 dddoushio wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 03:03 Torte de Lini wrote:
[*] “Female gamers who are not achieving, don’t deserve to be on a team”
I don't understand how this is prejudice
It's not, that's the whole crux of the issue IMO. Some people view this as something horrific like racism.
It's simply merit based promotion.
People have pretty much accepted Scarlett. There's the normal questions of is she good right now, etc. But I mean if another person came along with the same type of results, there might be some small minority of people who are vocal. But people like myself would accept her. I guess I have the conceit to think I might be in the majority on this.
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On January 04 2013 07:14 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +I'm convinced, however, that the skill level of female tournaments being lower is a result of the sample group being lower. Bingo yes. That's why comparison between two genders is just wrong.
I can't say I agree with that. There are plenty of women Soccer/basketball/tennis players and the best players are always going to be men. On a more comparable level there are lots of women Poker/Pool/Golf/Chess players and the elite of the elite are still always men.
It's not about women being the BEST at something. The LPGA can support itself and is plenty entertaining but that doesn't mean women playing in the US open or its gonna be considered sexist. They're just not at the same level. (Looking at you Michelle Wie)
You too Manon Rheaume.
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On January 04 2013 07:40 Dubsy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 07:14 Torte de Lini wrote:I'm convinced, however, that the skill level of female tournaments being lower is a result of the sample group being lower. Bingo yes. That's why comparison between two genders is just wrong. I can't say I agree with that. There are plenty of women Soccer/basketball/tennis players and the best players are always going to be men. On a more comparable level there are lots of women Poker/Pool/Golf/Chess players and the elite of the elite are still always men. It's not about women being the BEST at something. The LPGA can support itself and is plenty entertaining but that doesn't mean women playing in the US open or its gonna be considered sexist. They're just not at the same level. (Looking at you Michelle Wie) You too Manon Rheaume.
Maybe, but that doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't have women's leagues to not find out.
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On January 04 2013 08:24 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 07:40 Dubsy wrote:On January 04 2013 07:14 Torte de Lini wrote:I'm convinced, however, that the skill level of female tournaments being lower is a result of the sample group being lower. Bingo yes. That's why comparison between two genders is just wrong. I can't say I agree with that. There are plenty of women Soccer/basketball/tennis players and the best players are always going to be men. On a more comparable level there are lots of women Poker/Pool/Golf/Chess players and the elite of the elite are still always men. It's not about women being the BEST at something. The LPGA can support itself and is plenty entertaining but that doesn't mean we need women playing in the US open or its gonna be considered sexist. They're just not at the same level. (Looking at you Michelle Wie) You too Manon Rheaume. Maybe, but that doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't have women's leagues to not find out.
Uhhh... Yeah that's why I said I'm in favor of them if they can support themselves financially. If they're just siphoning funds from the real money makers and burning it because it turns out female tourneys are unsustainable, then I do not support them at all.
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On January 04 2013 08:33 Dubsy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 08:24 Torte de Lini wrote:On January 04 2013 07:40 Dubsy wrote:On January 04 2013 07:14 Torte de Lini wrote:I'm convinced, however, that the skill level of female tournaments being lower is a result of the sample group being lower. Bingo yes. That's why comparison between two genders is just wrong. I can't say I agree with that. There are plenty of women Soccer/basketball/tennis players and the best players are always going to be men. On a more comparable level there are lots of women Poker/Pool/Golf/Chess players and the elite of the elite are still always men. It's not about women being the BEST at something. The LPGA can support itself and is plenty entertaining but that doesn't mean we need women playing in the US open or its gonna be considered sexist. They're just not at the same level. (Looking at you Michelle Wie) You too Manon Rheaume. Maybe, but that doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't have women's leagues to not find out. Uhhh... Yeah that's why I said I'm in favor of them if they can support themselves financially. If they're just siphoning funds from the real money makers and burning it because it turns out female tourneys are unsustainable, then I do not support them at all.
So then E-Sports shouldn't have been started either then?
I can see your point because it is logical, but at the same time, it has its flaws that I want to hear your view on.
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On January 04 2013 07:40 Dubsy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 07:14 Torte de Lini wrote:I'm convinced, however, that the skill level of female tournaments being lower is a result of the sample group being lower. Bingo yes. That's why comparison between two genders is just wrong. I can't say I agree with that. There are plenty of women Soccer/basketball/tennis players and the best players are always going to be men. On a more comparable level there are lots of women Poker/Pool/Golf/Chess players and the elite of the elite are still always men. It's not about women being the BEST at something. The LPGA can support itself and is plenty entertaining but that doesn't mean women playing in the US open or its gonna be considered sexist. They're just not at the same level. (Looking at you Michelle Wie) You too Manon Rheaume.
Poker, Pool, Chess & Golf? These are pretty much sports where the elite being mostly male are directly a result of them being very 'masculine' activities. These games are also centuries old, with generations of clout. eSports is new & fresh compared to any of these, and shouldn't be held to the same standard. It's also tiny in comparison. You take something tiny and marginalize what could potentially be 50% (by virtue of approx. man to woman ratio) of the audience, and you keep it tiny forever. Maybe after centuries of male dominance in unisex eSports leagues can it be determined if men are actually better than women at a game, requiring a separate league. Starcraft 2 doesn't have centuries to make this case.
EDIT: And yet, already we have people who are convinced that women can't realistically compete vs men at a computer game? lol.
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it's a moot point this entire thing.
Scarlett is the most recognized and respected player in the NA scene. She's done this off the back of amazing in-game performances something any male to be known in the scene as a professional has to do.
The glass ceiling is an illusion for anybody that doesn't have the drive or determination to break it, like she has.
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I certainly wish there would be more Iron Lady tournaments. I had allot of fun competing (and losing) in one last year.
I also, of course, like to compete in the plat level tourny's on Z33k. But its more interesting to me as a female gamer to enter a girls only tournament just to mix it up a bit and meet other girl gamers. I think it's be awesome if Frag Dolls started playing sc2.
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Yes, female leagues encourage participation
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On January 04 2013 08:24 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 07:40 Dubsy wrote:On January 04 2013 07:14 Torte de Lini wrote:I'm convinced, however, that the skill level of female tournaments being lower is a result of the sample group being lower. Bingo yes. That's why comparison between two genders is just wrong. I can't say I agree with that. There are plenty of women Soccer/basketball/tennis players and the best players are always going to be men. On a more comparable level there are lots of women Poker/Pool/Golf/Chess players and the elite of the elite are still always men. It's not about women being the BEST at something. The LPGA can support itself and is plenty entertaining but that doesn't mean women playing in the US open or its gonna be considered sexist. They're just not at the same level. (Looking at you Michelle Wie) You too Manon Rheaume. Maybe, but that doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't have women's leagues to not find out.
You need actual interest. Right now there's too much shit as is. It goes back to what I said earlier about practically no viewers and this isn't gender specific. It applies to many smaller tournaments. Remember that regional you did Torte? What was it if I remember correctly when I was there I think it was 97 or 120 something for the WCS, oh wait I mean WCG I believe. It applies to many things. Right now CSL Utah versus George Mason is at 127 viewers as I'm writing this. It's fairly common.
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On November 20 2012 04:34 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 04:11 Noobity wrote:
The only, only problem I have with the discussion is the idea that female-only tournaments aren't sexist, while male only tournaments would be.
That's like saying affirmative action is racist. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 04:11 Noobity wrote:
I don't like the way society is going about this kind of thing in general. Yes, women have it hard in a lot of ways, and I'm not trying to slight that. But men have it hard in a lot of other ways, and this isn't really brought to light ever. As a man who likes to think he's respectful and neutral regarding sex as possible, the rights that I don't have regarding my children, or a failed marriage, or any number of other issues caused by men in the past is pretty frustrating as it is. We have a huge issue of equality, where women have different rights from men everywhere and that's the bigger issue. Allowing tournaments limited to only one sex, be it male or female, while a great idea in theory, can only be a stepping stone in my opinion.
This is ridiculous, one problem society does not have is males being discriminated against. Just look at this community, where maybe some female players get preferential treatment in some ways, but mostly they have to put up with incredible amounts of hostility from the community for their gender. They can't ever achieve anything without constant discussion about it, Scarlett for instance still has to put up with a multitude of trolls on reddit making disgusting comments every time she's mentioned - although her case is slightly different of course. Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 04:22 Uncreative_Troll wrote:Females are a minority receiving the community’s strongest criticisms, but also receiving the least opportunities. I don't agree with that sentence. We don't see male Diamond(?) players getting into a top Korean team or males joining pro teams as a player while having barely touched Sc2 the last months... It's much easier to get noticed (and get opportunities) as a girl in a male dominated scene and I openly admit that I sometimes prefer the stream of a random female player with a webcam over a Progamer. Right now, females suffer from 2 prejudices:
...
“Female gamers who are not achieving, don’t deserve to be on a team” That's not actually a prejudice but an oppinion and a question of consistency. I don't think that many disagree with "Gamers who are not achieving, don't deserve to be on a team". I never noticed a discussion where someone asked for a female to be kicked out of a team cause she had no achievements (after the first announcement). Djokovic and Sharapova are both big tennis stars, yet Sharapova would lose without winning any games if they faced off. Stephano is the hero of the foreigner community, yet there are many Korean players that would be highly favored against him, even though he makes more money and has more fame. The WCS celebrated local tournament winners, they received a prize, were spotlighted, interviewed etc. Yet a lot of these players won't go far in a 'legit' tournament. At one point or another you have to realize that when you have divisions in the scene, with separate audiences etc. that then each scene can have its own stars. I honestly think that the best thing for female gaming would be to have more female leagues and more females playing the game.
Affirmative Action is racist.....
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On January 04 2013 11:59 Josh111 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2012 04:34 Grumbels wrote:On November 20 2012 04:11 Noobity wrote:
The only, only problem I have with the discussion is the idea that female-only tournaments aren't sexist, while male only tournaments would be.
That's like saying affirmative action is racist. On November 20 2012 04:11 Noobity wrote:
I don't like the way society is going about this kind of thing in general. Yes, women have it hard in a lot of ways, and I'm not trying to slight that. But men have it hard in a lot of other ways, and this isn't really brought to light ever. As a man who likes to think he's respectful and neutral regarding sex as possible, the rights that I don't have regarding my children, or a failed marriage, or any number of other issues caused by men in the past is pretty frustrating as it is. We have a huge issue of equality, where women have different rights from men everywhere and that's the bigger issue. Allowing tournaments limited to only one sex, be it male or female, while a great idea in theory, can only be a stepping stone in my opinion.
This is ridiculous, one problem society does not have is males being discriminated against. Just look at this community, where maybe some female players get preferential treatment in some ways, but mostly they have to put up with incredible amounts of hostility from the community for their gender. They can't ever achieve anything without constant discussion about it, Scarlett for instance still has to put up with a multitude of trolls on reddit making disgusting comments every time she's mentioned - although her case is slightly different of course. On November 20 2012 04:22 Uncreative_Troll wrote:Females are a minority receiving the community’s strongest criticisms, but also receiving the least opportunities. I don't agree with that sentence. We don't see male Diamond(?) players getting into a top Korean team or males joining pro teams as a player while having barely touched Sc2 the last months... It's much easier to get noticed (and get opportunities) as a girl in a male dominated scene and I openly admit that I sometimes prefer the stream of a random female player with a webcam over a Progamer. Right now, females suffer from 2 prejudices:
...
“Female gamers who are not achieving, don’t deserve to be on a team” That's not actually a prejudice but an oppinion and a question of consistency. I don't think that many disagree with "Gamers who are not achieving, don't deserve to be on a team". I never noticed a discussion where someone asked for a female to be kicked out of a team cause she had no achievements (after the first announcement). Djokovic and Sharapova are both big tennis stars, yet Sharapova would lose without winning any games if they faced off. Stephano is the hero of the foreigner community, yet there are many Korean players that would be highly favored against him, even though he makes more money and has more fame. The WCS celebrated local tournament winners, they received a prize, were spotlighted, interviewed etc. Yet a lot of these players won't go far in a 'legit' tournament. At one point or another you have to realize that when you have divisions in the scene, with separate audiences etc. that then each scene can have its own stars. I honestly think that the best thing for female gaming would be to have more female leagues and more females playing the game. Affirmative Action is racist.....
Heh and then you would have those people out there saying how they aren't legit because they aren't playing against the toughest competition and history repeats itself. There are women's leagues for practically everything. Heck, even MBC had a women's league for BW and once the ratings came in that was it. No more.
On January 04 2013 05:23 NotRandoMNamE wrote:
I believe KESPA had an all female tournament before in BW, which tossgirl won every time but I'm not sure what happened to it now.
^
This guy alluded to it and everyone knew she was the heavy favorite. Anyway, it was only one time and the ratings were terrible.
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On January 04 2013 12:09 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:59 Josh111 wrote:On November 20 2012 04:34 Grumbels wrote:On November 20 2012 04:11 Noobity wrote:
The only, only problem I have with the discussion is the idea that female-only tournaments aren't sexist, while male only tournaments would be.
That's like saying affirmative action is racist. On November 20 2012 04:11 Noobity wrote:
I don't like the way society is going about this kind of thing in general. Yes, women have it hard in a lot of ways, and I'm not trying to slight that. But men have it hard in a lot of other ways, and this isn't really brought to light ever. As a man who likes to think he's respectful and neutral regarding sex as possible, the rights that I don't have regarding my children, or a failed marriage, or any number of other issues caused by men in the past is pretty frustrating as it is. We have a huge issue of equality, where women have different rights from men everywhere and that's the bigger issue. Allowing tournaments limited to only one sex, be it male or female, while a great idea in theory, can only be a stepping stone in my opinion.
This is ridiculous, one problem society does not have is males being discriminated against. Just look at this community, where maybe some female players get preferential treatment in some ways, but mostly they have to put up with incredible amounts of hostility from the community for their gender. They can't ever achieve anything without constant discussion about it, Scarlett for instance still has to put up with a multitude of trolls on reddit making disgusting comments every time she's mentioned - although her case is slightly different of course. On November 20 2012 04:22 Uncreative_Troll wrote:Females are a minority receiving the community’s strongest criticisms, but also receiving the least opportunities. I don't agree with that sentence. We don't see male Diamond(?) players getting into a top Korean team or males joining pro teams as a player while having barely touched Sc2 the last months... It's much easier to get noticed (and get opportunities) as a girl in a male dominated scene and I openly admit that I sometimes prefer the stream of a random female player with a webcam over a Progamer. Right now, females suffer from 2 prejudices:
...
“Female gamers who are not achieving, don’t deserve to be on a team” That's not actually a prejudice but an oppinion and a question of consistency. I don't think that many disagree with "Gamers who are not achieving, don't deserve to be on a team". I never noticed a discussion where someone asked for a female to be kicked out of a team cause she had no achievements (after the first announcement). Djokovic and Sharapova are both big tennis stars, yet Sharapova would lose without winning any games if they faced off. Stephano is the hero of the foreigner community, yet there are many Korean players that would be highly favored against him, even though he makes more money and has more fame. The WCS celebrated local tournament winners, they received a prize, were spotlighted, interviewed etc. Yet a lot of these players won't go far in a 'legit' tournament. At one point or another you have to realize that when you have divisions in the scene, with separate audiences etc. that then each scene can have its own stars. I honestly think that the best thing for female gaming would be to have more female leagues and more females playing the game. Affirmative Action is racist..... Heh and then you would have those people out there saying how they aren't legit because they aren't playing against the toughest competition and history repeats itself. There are women's leagues for practically everything. Heck, even MBC had a women's league for BW and once the ratings came in that was it. No more. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 05:23 NotRandoMNamE wrote:
I believe KESPA had an all female tournament before in BW, which tossgirl won every time but I'm not sure what happened to it now. ^ This guy alluded to it and everyone knew she was the heavy favorite. Anyway, it was only one time and the ratings were terrible.
Never said anything about not having women's leagues or that women leagues are not legit or anything. Just someone said affirmative action wasn't racist and i was disagreeing.
I compete in rock climbing and women and men are separated because men and women have different body types and it wouldn't be fair for them to compete together.
I personally feel women leagues should exist for esports as its really important to foster talent that otherwise might not exist. Same reason why I feel there should be more NA only tournaments.
Doesn't change the fact that affirmative action is racist.
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On January 04 2013 12:25 Josh111 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 12:09 StarStruck wrote:On January 04 2013 11:59 Josh111 wrote:On November 20 2012 04:34 Grumbels wrote:On November 20 2012 04:11 Noobity wrote:
The only, only problem I have with the discussion is the idea that female-only tournaments aren't sexist, while male only tournaments would be.
That's like saying affirmative action is racist. On November 20 2012 04:11 Noobity wrote:
I don't like the way society is going about this kind of thing in general. Yes, women have it hard in a lot of ways, and I'm not trying to slight that. But men have it hard in a lot of other ways, and this isn't really brought to light ever. As a man who likes to think he's respectful and neutral regarding sex as possible, the rights that I don't have regarding my children, or a failed marriage, or any number of other issues caused by men in the past is pretty frustrating as it is. We have a huge issue of equality, where women have different rights from men everywhere and that's the bigger issue. Allowing tournaments limited to only one sex, be it male or female, while a great idea in theory, can only be a stepping stone in my opinion.
This is ridiculous, one problem society does not have is males being discriminated against. Just look at this community, where maybe some female players get preferential treatment in some ways, but mostly they have to put up with incredible amounts of hostility from the community for their gender. They can't ever achieve anything without constant discussion about it, Scarlett for instance still has to put up with a multitude of trolls on reddit making disgusting comments every time she's mentioned - although her case is slightly different of course. On November 20 2012 04:22 Uncreative_Troll wrote:Females are a minority receiving the community’s strongest criticisms, but also receiving the least opportunities. I don't agree with that sentence. We don't see male Diamond(?) players getting into a top Korean team or males joining pro teams as a player while having barely touched Sc2 the last months... It's much easier to get noticed (and get opportunities) as a girl in a male dominated scene and I openly admit that I sometimes prefer the stream of a random female player with a webcam over a Progamer. Right now, females suffer from 2 prejudices:
...
“Female gamers who are not achieving, don’t deserve to be on a team” That's not actually a prejudice but an oppinion and a question of consistency. I don't think that many disagree with "Gamers who are not achieving, don't deserve to be on a team". I never noticed a discussion where someone asked for a female to be kicked out of a team cause she had no achievements (after the first announcement). Djokovic and Sharapova are both big tennis stars, yet Sharapova would lose without winning any games if they faced off. Stephano is the hero of the foreigner community, yet there are many Korean players that would be highly favored against him, even though he makes more money and has more fame. The WCS celebrated local tournament winners, they received a prize, were spotlighted, interviewed etc. Yet a lot of these players won't go far in a 'legit' tournament. At one point or another you have to realize that when you have divisions in the scene, with separate audiences etc. that then each scene can have its own stars. I honestly think that the best thing for female gaming would be to have more female leagues and more females playing the game. Affirmative Action is racist..... Heh and then you would have those people out there saying how they aren't legit because they aren't playing against the toughest competition and history repeats itself. There are women's leagues for practically everything. Heck, even MBC had a women's league for BW and once the ratings came in that was it. No more. On January 04 2013 05:23 NotRandoMNamE wrote:
I believe KESPA had an all female tournament before in BW, which tossgirl won every time but I'm not sure what happened to it now. ^ This guy alluded to it and everyone knew she was the heavy favorite. Anyway, it was only one time and the ratings were terrible. Never said anything about not having women's leagues or that women leagues are not legit or anything. Just someone said affirmative action wasn't racist and i was disagreeing. I compete in rock climbing and women and men are separated because men and women have different body types and it wouldn't be fair for them to compete together. I personally feel women leagues should exist for esports as its really important to foster talent that otherwise might not exist. Same reason why I feel there should be more NA only tournaments. Doesn't change the fact that affirmative action is racist.
Ah, I was alluding to the other guys post and just continuing the conversation. It's funny that you mention rock climbing because I was just at a WRCC event. Anyway, I've already stated where I stand on more tournaments. I'm all for people having getting together to have lans but it's going to be awfully difficult trying to get more sponsors on board if you are trying to generate traffic. If it's for fun and games no problem, but if you're trying to make a business out of it? Good luck to them.
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I personally feel women leagues should exist for esports as its really important to foster talent that otherwise might not exist. Same reason why I feel there should be more NA only tournaments.
Exactly how I feel!
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On January 04 2013 12:09 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:59 Josh111 wrote:On November 20 2012 04:34 Grumbels wrote:On November 20 2012 04:11 Noobity wrote:
The only, only problem I have with the discussion is the idea that female-only tournaments aren't sexist, while male only tournaments would be.
That's like saying affirmative action is racist. On November 20 2012 04:11 Noobity wrote:
I don't like the way society is going about this kind of thing in general. Yes, women have it hard in a lot of ways, and I'm not trying to slight that. But men have it hard in a lot of other ways, and this isn't really brought to light ever. As a man who likes to think he's respectful and neutral regarding sex as possible, the rights that I don't have regarding my children, or a failed marriage, or any number of other issues caused by men in the past is pretty frustrating as it is. We have a huge issue of equality, where women have different rights from men everywhere and that's the bigger issue. Allowing tournaments limited to only one sex, be it male or female, while a great idea in theory, can only be a stepping stone in my opinion.
This is ridiculous, one problem society does not have is males being discriminated against. Just look at this community, where maybe some female players get preferential treatment in some ways, but mostly they have to put up with incredible amounts of hostility from the community for their gender. They can't ever achieve anything without constant discussion about it, Scarlett for instance still has to put up with a multitude of trolls on reddit making disgusting comments every time she's mentioned - although her case is slightly different of course. On November 20 2012 04:22 Uncreative_Troll wrote:Females are a minority receiving the community’s strongest criticisms, but also receiving the least opportunities. I don't agree with that sentence. We don't see male Diamond(?) players getting into a top Korean team or males joining pro teams as a player while having barely touched Sc2 the last months... It's much easier to get noticed (and get opportunities) as a girl in a male dominated scene and I openly admit that I sometimes prefer the stream of a random female player with a webcam over a Progamer. Right now, females suffer from 2 prejudices:
...
“Female gamers who are not achieving, don’t deserve to be on a team” That's not actually a prejudice but an oppinion and a question of consistency. I don't think that many disagree with "Gamers who are not achieving, don't deserve to be on a team". I never noticed a discussion where someone asked for a female to be kicked out of a team cause she had no achievements (after the first announcement). Djokovic and Sharapova are both big tennis stars, yet Sharapova would lose without winning any games if they faced off. Stephano is the hero of the foreigner community, yet there are many Korean players that would be highly favored against him, even though he makes more money and has more fame. The WCS celebrated local tournament winners, they received a prize, were spotlighted, interviewed etc. Yet a lot of these players won't go far in a 'legit' tournament. At one point or another you have to realize that when you have divisions in the scene, with separate audiences etc. that then each scene can have its own stars. I honestly think that the best thing for female gaming would be to have more female leagues and more females playing the game. Affirmative Action is racist..... Heh and then you would have those people out there saying how they aren't legit because they aren't playing against the toughest competition and history repeats itself. There are women's leagues for practically everything. Heck, even MBC had a women's league for BW and once the ratings came in that was it. No more. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 05:23 NotRandoMNamE wrote:
I believe KESPA had an all female tournament before in BW, which tossgirl won every time but I'm not sure what happened to it now. ^ This guy alluded to it and everyone knew she was the heavy favorite. Anyway, it was only one time and the ratings were terrible.
Actually, it ran for 4 iterations. And there may have been another set of female tournaments that ran for two iterations. I don't know if GameTV and GhemTV have been confused and are really the same tournament or not. (See  Tossgirl). However, my point is that it was more than a one time thing. Although, admittedly, not much more than one time...
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On January 04 2013 06:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
Girl only tournaments are demanded to increase female participation.
Doing so has 0 negative side-effects.
Except the side effect of excluding a bunch of males solely for their sex? I don't see any reason why moving towards equality in terms of representation rather than opportunity has any remote sense of value. Why again is it better for the community to bring in 5 new female gamers as opposed to five new male gamers?
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On January 04 2013 17:37 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 06:32 Torte de Lini wrote:
Girl only tournaments are demanded to increase female participation.
Doing so has 0 negative side-effects. Except the side effect of excluding a bunch of males solely for their sex? I don't see any reason why moving towards equality in terms of representation rather than opportunity has any remote sense of value. Why again is it better for the community to bring in 5 new female gamers as opposed to five new male gamers?
I can tell you didn't read the article.
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EPT
