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this is 2012. banks can track debit transactions. banks dont fuck around, they will get the facts.
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No crime was commited here, they asked for money for being at the guys club and he gave it them, at least he got a good story to tell
User was temp banned for this post.
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On November 18 2012 01:01 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 00:55 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:40 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:28 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:20 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:10 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:00 ramask2 wrote:On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote:
I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police. He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary. All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation. Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter. So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested? What about their future victims? It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist. I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves. Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate. To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways. I read and understood very clearly what he wrote. He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance. The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense. To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was." He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful? Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense? The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you. In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly? He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for. And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China. Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you. You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police. And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police? Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:22 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 00:19 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:12 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote:
They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly.. So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that? If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself. Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts. WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....?? Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud. You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right? Fraud and robbery are different. There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right? So let's examine both options. He is telling the truth:- He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ??? He is making it up:- He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true. Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit. Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police? I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up. No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before.
You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh.
You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be "don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour.
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Bitter committing bank fraud in China to regain his hooker expenses, then posting it on Teamliquid? Ahaha, some guys here take the wrong stuff :D
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On November 18 2012 01:05 LJ wrote:
No crime was commited here, they asked for money for being at the guys club and he gave it them, at least he got a good story to tell
Yeah, that's usually how the scam operates. I've heard of a case where the gangs take the tourists to a local restaurant, and the service charge is about 30000%, and that detail was written in Chinese in the menu. They then block the exit to the restaurant until you pay up. This scam is good because it works with large group of people too lol.
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On November 18 2012 01:10 ramask2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 01:05 LJ wrote:
No crime was commited here, they asked for money for being at the guys club and he gave it them, at least he got a good story to tell Yeah, that's usually how the scam operates. I've heard of a case where the gangs take the tourists to a local restaurant, and the service charge is about 30000%, and that detail was written in Chinese in the menu. They then block the exit to the restaurant until you pay up. This scam is good because it works with large group of people too lol.
So you're suggesting Mr Bitter did indeed partake of the services at the brothel, but their prices were more than anticipated?
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On November 18 2012 01:05 LJ wrote:
No crime was commited here, they asked for money for being at the guys club and he gave it them, at least he got a good story to tell
Yeah, thats propably actually legal. He also "could" have left the cab, so even if they find this guys they will simply claim they forced him to nothing.
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On November 18 2012 01:12 gyurktle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 01:10 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 01:05 LJ wrote:
No crime was commited here, they asked for money for being at the guys club and he gave it them, at least he got a good story to tell Yeah, that's usually how the scam operates. I've heard of a case where the gangs take the tourists to a local restaurant, and the service charge is about 30000%, and that detail was written in Chinese in the menu. They then block the exit to the restaurant until you pay up. This scam is good because it works with large group of people too lol. So you're suggesting Mr Bitter did indeed partake of the services at the brothel, but their prices were more than anticipated?
Where did I ever suggest that lol. You're just embarrassing yourself now Mr. Troll.
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On November 18 2012 01:08 gyurktle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 01:01 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:55 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:40 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:28 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:20 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:10 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:00 ramask2 wrote:On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote:
I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police. He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary. All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation. Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter. So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested? What about their future victims? It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist. I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves. Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate. To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways. I read and understood very clearly what he wrote. He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance. The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense. To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was." He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful? Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense? The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you. In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly? He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for. And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China. Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you. You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police. And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police? On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:22 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 00:19 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:12 ramask2 wrote:
[quote]
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself. Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts. WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....?? Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud. You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right? Fraud and robbery are different. There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right? So let's examine both options. He is telling the truth:- He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ??? He is making it up:- He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true. Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit. Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police? I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up. No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before. You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh. You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be " don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour.
You seem to have comprehension issues. As another user said, and as my original post stated, we find nothing odd about him calling the bank first. We are not advocating that he does not call the police ever. And what you call "trying to make it sound futile" is what would happen.
You call your bank - tell them to stop the transactions and escalate it to theft. Then you ask for advice and help. The bank will most surely tell you to visit the police and report the incident, and then they will take over. You can keep contact with your bank and the progress. Can you do that with a foreign police station, even after you leave the country?
To be clear once again, as you just do not get it - we are saying he isn't wrong to contact the bank first.
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On November 18 2012 01:16 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 01:08 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 01:01 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:55 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:40 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:28 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:20 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:10 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:00 ramask2 wrote:On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote:
I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police. He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary. All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation. Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter. So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested? What about their future victims? It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist. I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves. Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate. To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways. I read and understood very clearly what he wrote. He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance. The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense. To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was." He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful? Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense? The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you. In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly? He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for. And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China. Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you. You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police. And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police? On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:22 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 00:19 gyurktle wrote:
[quote]
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts. WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....?? Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud. You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right? Fraud and robbery are different. There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right? So let's examine both options. He is telling the truth:- He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ??? He is making it up:- He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true. Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit. Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police? I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up. No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before. You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh. You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be " don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour. You seem to have comprehension issues. As another user said, and as my original post stated, we find nothing odd about him calling the bank first. We are not advocating that he does not call the police ever. And what you call "trying to make it sound futile" is what would happen. You call your bank - tell them to stop the transactions and escalate it to theft. Then you ask for advice and help. The bank will most surely tell you to visit the police and report the incident, and then they will take over. You can keep contact with your bank and the progress. Can you do that with a foreign police station, even after you leave the country? To be clear once again, as you just do not get it - we are saying he isn't wrong to contact the bank first.
He didn't contact them first, he contacted them exclusively.
Let's be clear here. We are talking about contacting police--and the lack of such action on the part of Mr Bitter. You keep bringing up the bank, but what is the relevance? Are bankers substitute policemen? Do they handle criminal investigations?
If you are the victim of a crime, you need to report it to police. It is especially urgent to contact them while your memory is still fresh.
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chinese police take crimes on foreigners pretty seriously. probably can get to the end of this mugging business very soon.
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On November 18 2012 01:21 gyurktle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 01:16 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 01:08 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 01:01 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:55 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:40 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:28 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:20 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:10 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:00 ramask2 wrote:
[quote]
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter. So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested? What about their future victims? It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist. I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves. Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate. To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways. I read and understood very clearly what he wrote. He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance. The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense. To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was." He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful? Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense? The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you. In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly? He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for. And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China. Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you. You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police. And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police? On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:22 ramask2 wrote:
[quote]
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....?? Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud. You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right? Fraud and robbery are different. There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right? So let's examine both options. He is telling the truth:- He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ??? He is making it up:- He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true. Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit. Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police? I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up. No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before. You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh. You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be " don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour. You seem to have comprehension issues. As another user said, and as my original post stated, we find nothing odd about him calling the bank first. We are not advocating that he does not call the police ever. And what you call "trying to make it sound futile" is what would happen. You call your bank - tell them to stop the transactions and escalate it to theft. Then you ask for advice and help. The bank will most surely tell you to visit the police and report the incident, and then they will take over. You can keep contact with your bank and the progress. Can you do that with a foreign police station, even after you leave the country? To be clear once again, as you just do not get it - we are saying he isn't wrong to contact the bank first. He didn't contact them first, he contacted them exclusively. Let's be clear here. We are talking about contacting police--and the lack of such action on the part of Mr Bitter. You keep bringing up the bank, but what is the relevance? Are bankers substitute policemen? Do they handle criminal investigations? If you are the victim of a crime, you need to report it to police. It is especially urgent to contact them while your memory is still fresh.
The bank has your money and the resources to do something productive. To be honest, if this had happened to me in China, my bank and my nations consulate would be the first addresses. With their backing i would then inform local law enforcement.
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On November 18 2012 01:21 gyurktle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 01:16 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 01:08 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 01:01 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:55 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:40 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:28 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:20 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:10 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:00 ramask2 wrote:
[quote]
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter. So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested? What about their future victims? It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist. I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves. Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate. To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways. I read and understood very clearly what he wrote. He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance. The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense. To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was." He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful? Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense? The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you. In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly? He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for. And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China. Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you. You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police. And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police? On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:22 ramask2 wrote:
[quote]
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....?? Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud. You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right? Fraud and robbery are different. There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right? So let's examine both options. He is telling the truth:- He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ??? He is making it up:- He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true. Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit. Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police? I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up. No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before. You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh. You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be " don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour. You seem to have comprehension issues. As another user said, and as my original post stated, we find nothing odd about him calling the bank first. We are not advocating that he does not call the police ever. And what you call "trying to make it sound futile" is what would happen. You call your bank - tell them to stop the transactions and escalate it to theft. Then you ask for advice and help. The bank will most surely tell you to visit the police and report the incident, and then they will take over. You can keep contact with your bank and the progress. Can you do that with a foreign police station, even after you leave the country? To be clear once again, as you just do not get it - we are saying he isn't wrong to contact the bank first. He didn't contact them first, he contacted them exclusively. Let's be clear here. We are talking about contacting police--and the lack of such action on the part of Mr Bitter. You keep bringing up the bank, but what is the relevance? Are bankers substitute policemen? Do they handle criminal investigations? If you are the victim of a crime, you need to report it to police. It is especially urgent to contact them while your memory is still fresh.
The exclusive reporting you speak of is from the end of his story. Yet you pass judgement without considering if he has reported to the police after or not. I bring up the bank because the money was lost through credit card swipes - something the bank can stop. With the bank informed, they would most likely advise Bitters to report the incident. I am more than willing to wait and see the result of the bank investigation than to imply Bitters callously wasted money and now is comitting bank fraud.
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yes, its weird if he never contacted authorities and only the bank, and some of us who been in that situation were traumatized or whatever excuses you all come, and still called up the police
none of us ever will know but the people involved in this situation
mrbitter did not initially blow the whistle publically it was someone else, for those of you saying if he did unwisely spend his money why would he post about it
surprised after reading guys like rets blog why English teachers and non-attached gamers love it in Asia so much that you would totally dismiss the idea.
mrbitter is married so this is another reason why this thread should be closed if anything did happen he will its have to live with it like the majority of marriages in America and that's none of our business.
we will never know for sure so would be nice to close the thread.
edit: he may never even contacted the bank
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On November 18 2012 01:27 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 01:21 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 01:16 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 01:08 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 01:01 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:55 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:40 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:28 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:20 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:10 gyurktle wrote:
[quote]
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist. I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves. Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate. To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways. I read and understood very clearly what he wrote. He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance. The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense. To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was." He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful? Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense? The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you. In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly? He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for. And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China. Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you. You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police. And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police? On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote:
[quote]
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud. You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right? Fraud and robbery are different. There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right? So let's examine both options. He is telling the truth:- He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ??? He is making it up:- He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true. Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit. Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police? I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up. No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before. You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh. You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be " don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour. You seem to have comprehension issues. As another user said, and as my original post stated, we find nothing odd about him calling the bank first. We are not advocating that he does not call the police ever. And what you call "trying to make it sound futile" is what would happen. You call your bank - tell them to stop the transactions and escalate it to theft. Then you ask for advice and help. The bank will most surely tell you to visit the police and report the incident, and then they will take over. You can keep contact with your bank and the progress. Can you do that with a foreign police station, even after you leave the country? To be clear once again, as you just do not get it - we are saying he isn't wrong to contact the bank first. He didn't contact them first, he contacted them exclusively. Let's be clear here. We are talking about contacting police--and the lack of such action on the part of Mr Bitter. You keep bringing up the bank, but what is the relevance? Are bankers substitute policemen? Do they handle criminal investigations? If you are the victim of a crime, you need to report it to police. It is especially urgent to contact them while your memory is still fresh. The exclusive reporting you speak of is from the end of his story. Yet you pass judgement without considering if he has reported to the police after or not. I bring up the bank because the money was lost through credit card swipes - something the bank can stop. With the bank informed, they would most likely advise Bitters to report the incident. I am more than willing to wait and see the result of the bank investigation than to imply Bitters callously wasted money and now is comitting bank fraud.
His excuse for not contacting police doesn't ring true. He claims he doesn't know what to tell them.
When you are a victim of a crime, what you tell police is:
a) that you were the victim of the crime
b) what you saw and heard
It's really that simple. Why do you have to think about what to tell them unless you are fabricating an invented story? People who were truly the victims of crime don't have to use their imagination, they can just say what happened.
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Those people giving Mr.Bitters grief should be ashamed of themselves. So the guy gets kidnapped, robbed and was scared silly... and you guys want to criticize how he handled it?
How about you offer Mr.Bitters your sympathy for the situation he found himself in, and admit that you don't have information or perspective sufficient to be critical of what happened. Yes, undoubtedly there were superior decisions he could have made... but he's human guys. I hope none of you critics have ever made an error that was obvious in hindsight, because you'd be a pretty big hypocrite to criticize Mr.Bitters for it.
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For all those people who critize Mrbitter and explaining random scenarios and/or stating complete bollocks:
Next time you are abroad. Having fun. You are in a club or a bar or anywhere random. Just think about it for one second:
If someone attacks me, rob me, or kidnap me how would I feel?
Have a pleasant holiday.
ezz wholes
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On November 18 2012 01:46 minimalistic wrote:
For all those people who critize Mrbitter and explaining random scenarios and/or stating complete bollocks:
Next time you are abroad. Having fun. You are in a club or a bar or anywhere random. Just think about it for one second:
If someone attacks me, rob me, or kidnap me how would I feel?
Have a pleasant holiday.
ezz wholes
Next time you are on a drunken binge and spend $2000 on prostitutes, just think about it for one second:
What would you do to hide the true nature of those charges from your wife?
User was temp banned for this post.
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so did anyone else forget about how ToD apparently got "so fucked up" that all he knew was his name was ToD when he woke up at a random place in china? or are we going to completely forget about that just like how stephano beat a 14 year old in sc2
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EPT
