MrBitter United States. November 16 2012 07:14. Posts 2775 PM Profile Blog Report Quote # Hey guys,
I'm more embarrassed about this whole situation than anything else. Here's the story.
I was out at a bar in a nice part of Shanghai with Rotti. Beautiful place, very nice. We were both having a good time, but as it was getting later, I started wanting to take off. Kev wanted to stay out a little longer, so I just bailed around 11 PM.
Walked to the street, got into a cab (it was parked in a row of other cabs) and started handing driver my hotel card with the address of the place we're staying.
As I'm doing this another guy gets in the car and says something in Chinese to the driver.
This is the point where I should have just gotten out of the car, but I was so "wtf!?" that I just sorta sat there. After like 2 seconds cab driver just starts driving.
We go for 5-10 minutes down some random roads on random ass Shanghai and stop in this kinda shady looking place with literally nobody around. At this point I know I'm in a shitty situation and trying to calculate what to do.
Random dude that got into the cab tells me in broken English to come with him.
This is the second point where I guess I could have just walked away, but I had no idea where I was, and this cab driver was the only other person in sight. If I just walk off, I'd literally be walking the streets of a pretty ghetto part of Shanghai alone and in the dark, and just about all other prospects seemed better, so I'm like "fuck it" and I walk with the guy into some little hole in the wall.
I'm assuming we were in a whore house, as there were naked pictures of girls on the walls, and really nasty looking girls walking around in dirty outfits. Dude from the cab walks me into a room and tells me to wait.
Few minutes later 4 guys walk in. One had really funny hair. Apparently he was the boss.
He starts telling me that I'm in his club and I have to pay him.
This is the point where I know I'm pretty much fucked. He has three other dudes who literally look like they came out of a bad gangster movie. One of them has a taped up hand, the other is all buff and mean looking, and there's a third old looking guy who is introduced as the head of security. (lol?)
Funny hair guy tells me to empty my pockets. I can either comply or try to fight... in these situations I think its always better to just give the dudes what they want than to try and do something stupid. They weren't trying to rape me, just rob me, and it was pretty obvious.
They wanted me to give them 40,000 RMB. I had about 1,000 RMB cash on me and my debit card.
Funny hair guy says something in Chinese to one of the other guys. Dude leaves, and a few minutes later comes back with a credit card machine.
Funny hair guy asks me what the limit on my card is.
I'm like "well fuck."
I tell him $300 US. Because it is. I have a $300 daily withdrawal limit on my checking account. This is very deliberate. I like to play poker, and I'm bad at stopping myself, so I had my bank limit me to $300 per day. lol. Embarrassing but true.
He punches in 5,000 RMB, which is like $800 US and scans my card. Then he tells me to enter my pin.
"Fuck it."
I do.
"Transfer Approved"
Great. Now I've lied to this angry little gangster, and I'm out $800.
He starts to yell at me.
"WHY ARE YOU LYING TO ME"
"Honestly dude, I've got a $300 withdrawal limit."
He punches in 5,000 again.
I enter pin.
Approved.
"double fuck."
Now he makes me write down my pin code and my name. He's pissed that I've lied to him twice. He walks off with my card and is gone for 20 minutes.
Eventually he comes back, and tells me he tried to withdraw 10,000 RMB more from my account, but thankfully it was declined.
He gives me 200 RMB cash for a cab and tells me that I'm going to go with two of his "staff" to an ATM and I'm going to withdraw as much money as I can.
"triple fuck"
I walk out of this shitty little whore house or whatever the fuck it is and get into a cab with these two short little Chinese gangsters. I'm pretty pissed myself at this point, and seriously am considering trying to fight, but I suck it up. I had no idea if they had weapons, and I was pretty sure I didn't have any more money for them to steal.
We drive for like 20 more fucking minutes away from Shanghai to an ATM. We get out, I give my card to one of the gangster dudes, punch in my pin for him, card gets declined.
He tries again.
Declined.
Makes me try once.
Declined.
They walk me back to the cab, put me in and say in perfect english "where is your hotel sir?"
I give the hotel card to the gangster dude, he gives it to my cab driver, and presumably tells him to take me home, and that's where we went.
Once back at the hotel I called the back to see if I could stop payment on the 10,000 RMB transactions they pulled.
Of course there will be a bank investigation.
Haven't called the cops because I don't know wtf I would tell them. I still have no fucking idea where I was, or who stole from me.
In hindsight, they were pretty polite about it.
TLDR: Didn't get out of car when strange Chinese guy got in. Ended up costing me about $1600 US. Hoping for the best.
What I learned: Never travel alone.
China's a beautiful country, and Shanghai's an amazing city.
I do think I'll be spending my evenings at the hotel from now on, though.
On November 16 2012 07:11 President Dead wrote: It's a drag he was in personal danger. Must've been really scary. I'm glad he is well. While this may sound harsh, however, the financial loss is petty and I really have no sympathy financially, (much sympathy for danger however) simply because MrBitter is loaded. He himself said he owns 8 houses and he pretty much grew up without having to worry about money at all. I'd take that and get mugged down the road anyday!
Anyway, glad you're okay Bitter!
I am successful outside of e-sports, but I did not grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth. We never had money when I was young. Both my parents are self made successes. I've worked in construction, in factories, and in sales jobs making my way. I'm not loaded. $1,600 is a lot of money. It won't kill me if I don't get it back. But your post is largely misinformation.
On November 16 2012 07:11 CursedRich wrote: Ive spent time in China and Hong Kong, this usually happens to people who are very drunk and alone, having seen Mr Bitter on Kings of Tin, I hope he wasn't that drunk because he couldn't handle his drink on that show and you become a target in many cities globally if you're in that state alone, Ive got be honest though, Hong Kong's much safer on the whole, glad he's not hurt
Had been drinking. Was not drunk. Was stupid to try and go home alone. I've been around the world a couple times and this is the first time I've had something like this happen. I was completely to blame for being by myself, and for not just bailing out of that cab immediately when the random dude got in. Live and learn.
Travelling in foreign countries always has its risks. This is why you need to be careful and travel with people you trust at all times, preferably also with a translator or a local who knows the sketchy places that you want to avoid. I'm sorry to hear about this but not entirely surprised. Thank goodness he's ok.
Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:13 Tsuki.eu wrote: Why do we care about that?
He's an active member of the e-sports community who was in real life danger? I mean, I don't like his casts that much, but he still deserves respect for putting effort into this scene.
On November 16 2012 06:13 Tsuki.eu wrote: Why do we care about that?
He's an active member of the e-sports community who was in real life danger? I mean, I don't like his casts that much, but he still deserves respect for putting effort into this scene.
Just sounds like he was being an idiot. I figured traveling for the better part of two years would make you at least slightly aware of these type of things. And he claims its a "funny story."
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
Yea this is so true. Being alone late at night in a foreign country, especially a big city, just isn't the best of ideas.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
Yea this is so true. Being alone late at night in a foreign country, especially a big city, just isn't the best of ideas.
On November 16 2012 06:19 justinpal wrote: Just sounds like he was being an idiot. I figured traveling for the better part of two years would make you at least slightly aware of these type of things. And he claims its a "funny story."
So being an idiot is going out and having fun instead of staying in your hotel room puffing on a bag for your anxiety? Well, than I'd rather be an idiot.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
Yea this is so true. Being alone late at night in a foreign country, especially a big city, just isn't the best of ideas.
On November 16 2012 06:19 justinpal wrote: Just sounds like he was being an idiot. I figured traveling for the better part of two years would make you at least slightly aware of these type of things. And he claims its a "funny story."
So being an idiot is going out and having fun instead of staying in your hotel room puffing on a bag for your anxiety? Well, than I'd rather be an idiot.
I'm pretty sure they were referring to the "walking home alone at night in a foreign country"-part.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
Yea this is so true. Being alone late at night in a foreign country, especially a big city, just isn't the best of ideas.
On November 16 2012 06:19 justinpal wrote: Just sounds like he was being an idiot. I figured traveling for the better part of two years would make you at least slightly aware of these type of things. And he claims its a "funny story."
So being an idiot is going out and having fun instead of staying in your hotel room puffing on a bag for your anxiety? Well, than I'd rather be an idiot.
No, not at all. But if you were just a little bit street smart and aware of things you would call for a Taxi first of all, not jump into one at night in Shanghai when you probably don't know which taxi companies you should actually trust, then split it with at least one of your pals from the party. If not that, get directions from someone local (and I doubt there isn't any local help to get from a Blizzard party in China that they are paying for) and take the bus, train, metro or whatever if possible. Or take the walk and just stay in crowds.
When you are traveling you should always be careful and aware of things, but that doesn't mean you can't have fun aswell.
At least he isn't dead. 2k is a pretty small deal compared to what could have happened when a bunch of Chinese crooks decided that they wanted some money.
Cuz the boyz n tha hood are always hard You come talkin' that trash we'll pull your card Knowin' nothin' in life but to be legit Don't quote me boy, cuz I ain't sayin' shit
On November 16 2012 06:39 KoDo wrote: I don't feel bad for Mr.Bitter there I said it. This stuff happens all the time, he wasn't hurt and he's a overly opinionated dick
Wow... is this really the place to shittalk him? It's cool that you don't like him or w.e, but no reason to post that kind of crap...
On November 16 2012 06:39 KoDo wrote: I don't feel bad for Mr.Bitter there I said it. This stuff happens all the time, he wasn't hurt and he's a overly opinionated dick
On November 16 2012 06:39 KoDo wrote: I don't feel bad for Mr.Bitter there I said it. This stuff happens all the time, he wasn't hurt and he's a overly opinionated dick
Wow... is this really the place to shittalk him? It's cool that you don't like him or w.e, but no reason to post that kind of crap...
Ah yea my mistake what was I thinking posting personal opinions in a starcraft2 forum my mistake.
On November 16 2012 06:13 Tsuki.eu wrote: Why do we care about that?
He's an active member of the e-sports community who was in real life danger? I mean, I don't like his casts that much, but he still deserves respect for putting effort into this scene.
I meant, why make a TL tread about it.
Is anyone else sick of the back seat modding? Are you really so insensitive to a community member being in danger that you can't even have it on the list of threads?
Are you really so tough that it's not worth ”cluttering” your view of the thread list?
I don't know why this makes me so angry; but if you don't like it, just ignore it. (I guess I should follow my own advice, but I really hate these kinds of posts.) Does anyone else feel this way?
Ive spent time in China and Hong Kong, this usually happens to people who are very drunk and alone, having seen Mr Bitter on Kings of Tin, I hope he wasn't that drunk because he couldn't handle his drink on that show and you become a target in many cities globally if you're in that state alone, Ive got be honest though, Hong Kong's much safer on the whole, glad he's not hurt
It's a drag he was in personal danger. Must've been really scary. I'm glad he is well. While this may sound harsh, however, the financial loss is petty and I really have no sympathy financially, (much sympathy for danger however) simply because MrBitter is loaded. He himself said he owns 8 houses and he pretty much grew up without having to worry about money at all. I'd take that and get mugged down the road anyday!
I'm more embarrassed about this whole situation than anything else. Here's the story.
I was out at a bar in a nice part of Shanghai with Rotti. Beautiful place, very nice. We were both having a good time, but as it was getting later, I started wanting to take off. Kev wanted to stay out a little longer, so I just bailed around 11 PM.
Walked to the street, got into a cab (it was parked in a row of other cabs) and started handing driver my hotel card with the address of the place we're staying.
As I'm doing this another guy gets in the car and says something in Chinese to the driver.
This is the point where I should have just gotten out of the car, but I was so "wtf!?" that I just sorta sat there. After like 2 seconds cab driver just starts driving.
We go for 5-10 minutes down some random roads on random ass Shanghai and stop in this kinda shady looking place with literally nobody around. At this point I know I'm in a shitty situation and trying to calculate what to do.
Random dude that got into the cab tells me in broken English to come with him.
This is the second point where I guess I could have just walked away, but I had no idea where I was, and this cab driver was the only other person in sight. If I just walk off, I'd literally be walking the streets of a pretty ghetto part of Shanghai alone and in the dark, and just about all other prospects seemed better, so I'm like "fuck it" and I walk with the guy into some little hole in the wall.
I'm assuming we were in a whore house, as there were naked pictures of girls on the walls, and really nasty looking girls walking around in dirty outfits. Dude from the cab walks me into a room and tells me to wait.
Few minutes later 4 guys walk in. One had really funny hair. Apparently he was the boss.
He starts telling me that I'm in his club and I have to pay him.
This is the point where I know I'm pretty much fucked. He has three other dudes who literally look like they came out of a bad gangster movie. One of them has a taped up hand, the other is all buff and mean looking, and there's a third old looking guy who is introduced as the head of security. (lol?)
Funny hair guy tells me to empty my pockets. I can either comply or try to fight... in these situations I think its always better to just give the dudes what they want than to try and do something stupid. They weren't trying to rape me, just rob me, and it was pretty obvious.
They wanted me to give them 40,000 RMB. I had about 1,000 RMB cash on me and my debit card.
Funny hair guy says something in Chinese to one of the other guys. Dude leaves, and a few minutes later comes back with a credit card machine.
Funny hair guy asks me what the limit on my card is.
I'm like "well fuck."
I tell him $300 US. Because it is. I have a $300 daily withdrawal limit on my checking account. This is very deliberate. I like to play poker, and I'm bad at stopping myself, so I had my bank limit me to $300 per day. lol. Embarrassing but true.
He punches in 5,000 RMB, which is like $800 US and scans my card. Then he tells me to enter my pin.
"Fuck it."
I do.
"Transfer Approved"
Great. Now I've lied to this angry little gangster, and I'm out $800.
He starts to yell at me.
"WHY ARE YOU LYING TO ME"
"Honestly dude, I've got a $300 withdrawal limit."
He punches in 5,000 again.
I enter pin.
Approved.
"double fuck."
Now he makes me write down my pin code and my name. He's pissed that I've lied to him twice. He walks off with my card and is gone for 20 minutes.
Eventually he comes back, and tells me he tried to withdraw 10,000 RMB more from my account, but thankfully it was declined.
He gives me 200 RMB cash for a cab and tells me that I'm going to go with two of his "staff" to an ATM and I'm going to withdraw as much money as I can.
"triple fuck"
I walk out of this shitty little whore house or whatever the fuck it is and get into a cab with these two short little Chinese gangsters. I'm pretty pissed myself at this point, and seriously am considering trying to fight, but I suck it up. I had no idea if they had weapons, and I was pretty sure I didn't have any more money for them to steal.
We drive for like 20 more fucking minutes away from Shanghai to an ATM. We get out, I give my card to one of the gangster dudes, punch in my pin for him, card gets declined.
He tries again.
Declined.
Makes me try once.
Declined.
They walk me back to the cab, put me in and say in perfect english "where is your hotel sir?"
I give the hotel card to the gangster dude, he gives it to my cab driver, and presumably tells him to take me home, and that's where we went.
Once back at the hotel I called the back to see if I could stop payment on the 10,000 RMB transactions they pulled.
Of course there will be a bank investigation.
Haven't called the cops because I don't know wtf I would tell them. I still have no fucking idea where I was, or who stole from me.
In hindsight, they were pretty polite about it.
TLDR: Didn't get out of car when strange Chinese guy got in. Ended up costing me about $1600 US. Hoping for the best.
What I learned: Never travel alone.
China's a beautiful country, and Shanghai's an amazing city.
I do think I'll be spending my evenings at the hotel from now on, though.
On November 16 2012 07:11 President Dead wrote: It's a drag he was in personal danger. Must've been really scary. I'm glad he is well. While this may sound harsh, however, the financial loss is petty and I really have no sympathy financially, (much sympathy for danger however) simply because MrBitter is loaded. He himself said he owns 8 houses and he pretty much grew up without having to worry about money at all. I'd take that and get mugged down the road anyday!
Anyway, glad you're okay Bitter!
I am successful outside of e-sports, but I did not grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth. We never had money when I was young. Both my parents are self made successes. I've worked in construction, in factories, and in sales jobs making my way. I'm not loaded. $1,600 is a lot of money. It won't kill me if I don't get it back. But your post is largely misinformation.
On November 16 2012 07:11 CursedRich wrote: Ive spent time in China and Hong Kong, this usually happens to people who are very drunk and alone, having seen Mr Bitter on Kings of Tin, I hope he wasn't that drunk because he couldn't handle his drink on that show and you become a target in many cities globally if you're in that state alone, Ive got be honest though, Hong Kong's much safer on the whole, glad he's not hurt
Had been drinking. Was not drunk. Was stupid to try and go home alone. I've been around the world a couple times and this is the first time I've had something like this happen. I was completely to blame for being by myself, and for not just bailing out of that cab immediately when the random dude got in. Live and learn.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe"
China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of.
China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there.
But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group.
Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
On November 16 2012 06:39 KoDo wrote: I don't feel bad for Mr.Bitter there I said it. This stuff happens all the time, he wasn't hurt and he's an overly opinionated dick
User was temp banned for this post.
But seriously that sucks. Good luck to him recouping his money in future endeavors
Why were they so 'nice'? Just asking you to follow them instead of taking you, having a pretence of you needing to pay because you're in 'their club', and then sending you back to your hotel afterwards?
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
On November 16 2012 07:24 Aveng3r wrote: thats bullshit that this happens, why dont you report the place where you were at to the cops or something? if you remember where it was that is
I could tell the cops where I was when I got in the cab, but I have no fucking clue where they took me.
Maybe there's an address on he credit card transactions? My bank might be able to press charges. Although I have no clue how that would work in China.
On November 16 2012 07:25 Solarsail wrote: Why were they so 'nice'? Just asking you to follow them instead of taking you, having a pretence of you needing to pay because you're in 'their club', and then sending you back to your hotel afterwards?
Hell if I know. I wasn't really trying to cause trouble. Just wanted to get out of there, so I was pretty much doing whatever they asked. The boss got pretty pissed after my transactions started going through, but he got nice again once my card started getting declined. >.<
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
On November 16 2012 07:24 Aveng3r wrote: thats bullshit that this happens, why dont you report the place where you were at to the cops or something? if you remember where it was that is
Chinese cops are not the most legit and don't take to much concern when Americans/Euros/Uk get robed. Ever been to Mexico? Well China can be 10x worse in that area.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
Good for you, I lived in China for 6 years. Never been robbed, stabbed, or any between. Mr bitter put himself in a crappy situation tbh
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe"
China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of.
China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there.
But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group.
Usually gangsters try to mug travelers, and they will not mug local people that easily. And also not just to foreigners, travelers from other cities are also targets. And ofc foreigners has language barrier, it is a plus for gangsters.
I would say bad luck to him, foreigners are usually treated like panda by regular chinese people.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
I lived in Shanghai for 7 years, beautiful place, much modern and safer than most US cities. Clearly you don't have a clue.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
Good for you, I lived in China for 6 years. Never been robbed, stabbed, or any between. Mr bitter put himself in a crappy situation tbh
Wait how is this in any way on MrBitter. Unless he was walking through the most robbery-infested area with a sign saying "PLEASE MUG ME" I'd say he deserves our compassion at this moment and not blame.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
Good for you, I lived in China for 6 years. Never been robbed, stabbed, or any between. Mr bitter put himself in a crappy situation tbh
Wait how is this in any way on MrBitter. Unless he was walking through the most robbery-infested area with a sign saying "PLEASE MUG ME" I'd say he deserves our compassion at this moment and not blame.
Nah dude. Shitty luck, but it's still on me. Shouldn't have been by myself, shouldn't have been like "wtf who is this random Chinese guy in my cab" and definitely shouldn't have just rolled with it like I did.
At the end of the day, I'm really lucky that all they wanted was money.
Gladly accept the "dumbass" title. Earned it this time.
On November 16 2012 07:14 MrBitter wrote: Hey guys,
I'm more embarrassed about this whole situation than anything else. Here's the story.
I was out at a bar in a nice part of Shanghai with Rotti. Beautiful place, very nice. We were both having a good time, but as it was getting later, I started wanting to take off. Kev wanted to stay out a little longer, so I just bailed around 11 PM.
Walked to the street, got into a cab (it was parked in a row of other cabs) and started handing driver my hotel card with the address of the place we're staying.
As I'm doing this another guy gets in the car and says something in Chinese to the driver.
This is the point where I should have just gotten out of the car, but I was so "wtf!?" that I just sorta sat there. After like 2 seconds cab driver just starts driving.
We go for 5-10 minutes down some random roads on random ass Shanghai and stop in this kinda shady looking place with literally nobody around. At this point I know I'm in a shitty situation and trying to calculate what to do.
Random dude that got into the cab tells me in broken English to come with him.
This is the second point where I guess I could have just walked away, but I had no idea where I was, and this cab driver was the only other person in sight. If I just walk off, I'd literally be walking the streets of a pretty ghetto part of Shanghai alone and in the dark, and just about all other prospects seemed better, so I'm like "fuck it" and I walk with the guy into some little hole in the wall.
I'm assuming we were in a whore house, as there were naked pictures of girls on the walls, and really nasty looking girls walking around in dirty outfits. Dude from the cab walks me into a room and tells me to wait.
Few minutes later 4 guys walk in. One had really funny hair. Apparently he was the boss.
He starts telling me that I'm in his club and I have to pay him.
This is the point where I know I'm pretty much fucked. He has three other dudes who literally look like they came out of a bad gangster movie. One of them has a taped up hand, the other is all buff and mean looking, and there's a third old looking guy who is introduced as the head of security. (lol?)
Funny hair guy tells me to empty my pockets. I can either comply or try to fight... in these situations I think its always better to just give the dudes what they want than to try and do something stupid. They weren't trying to rape me, just rob me, and it was pretty obvious.
They wanted me to give them 40,000 RMB. I had about 1,000 RMB cash on me and my debit card.
Funny hair guy says something in Chinese to one of the other guys. Dude leaves, and a few minutes later comes back with a credit card machine.
Funny hair guy asks me what the limit on my card is.
I'm like "well fuck."
I tell him $300 US. Because it is. I have a $300 daily withdrawal limit on my checking account. This is very deliberate. I like to play poker, and I'm bad at stopping myself, so I had my bank limit me to $300 per day. lol. Embarrassing but true.
He punches in 5,000 RMB, which is like $800 US and scans my card. Then he tells me to enter my pin.
"Fuck it."
I do.
"Transfer Approved"
Great. Now I've lied to this angry little gangster, and I'm out $800.
He starts to yell at me.
"WHY ARE YOU LYING TO ME"
"Honestly dude, I've got a $300 withdrawal limit."
He punches in 5,000 again.
I enter pin.
Approved.
"double fuck."
Now he makes me write down my pin code and my name. He's pissed that I've lied to him twice. He walks off with my card and is gone for 20 minutes.
Eventually he comes back, and tells me he tried to withdraw 10,000 RMB more from my account, but thankfully it was declined.
He gives me 200 RMB cash for a cab and tells me that I'm going to go with two of his "staff" to an ATM and I'm going to withdraw as much money as I can.
"triple fuck"
I walk out of this shitty little whore house or whatever the fuck it is and get into a cab with these two short little Chinese gangsters. I'm pretty pissed myself at this point, and seriously am considering trying to fight, but I suck it up. I had no idea if they had weapons, and I was pretty sure I didn't have any more money for them to steal.
We drive for like 20 more fucking minutes away from Shanghai to an ATM. We get out, I give my card to one of the gangster dudes, punch in my pin for him, card gets declined.
He tries again.
Declined.
Makes me try once.
Declined.
They walk me back to the cab, put me in and say in perfect english "where is your hotel sir?"
I give the hotel card to the gangster dude, he gives it to my cab driver, and presumably tells him to take me home, and that's where we went.
Once back at the hotel I called the back to see if I could stop payment on the 10,000 RMB transactions they pulled.
Of course there will be a bank investigation.
Haven't called the cops because I don't know wtf I would tell them. I still have no fucking idea where I was, or who stole from me.
In hindsight, they were pretty polite about it.
TLDR: Didn't get out of car when strange Chinese guy got in. Ended up costing me about $1600 US. Hoping for the best.
What I learned: Never travel alone.
China's a beautiful country, and Shanghai's an amazing city.
I do think I'll be spending my evenings at the hotel from now on, though.
On November 16 2012 07:11 President Dead wrote: It's a drag he was in personal danger. Must've been really scary. I'm glad he is well. While this may sound harsh, however, the financial loss is petty and I really have no sympathy financially, (much sympathy for danger however) simply because MrBitter is loaded. He himself said he owns 8 houses and he pretty much grew up without having to worry about money at all. I'd take that and get mugged down the road anyday!
Anyway, glad you're okay Bitter!
I am successful outside of e-sports, but I did not grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth. We never had money when I was young. Both my parents are self made successes. I've worked in construction, in factories, and in sales jobs making my way. I'm not loaded. $1,600 is a lot of money. It won't kill me if I don't get it back. But your post is largely misinformation.
On November 16 2012 07:11 CursedRich wrote: Ive spent time in China and Hong Kong, this usually happens to people who are very drunk and alone, having seen Mr Bitter on Kings of Tin, I hope he wasn't that drunk because he couldn't handle his drink on that show and you become a target in many cities globally if you're in that state alone, Ive got be honest though, Hong Kong's much safer on the whole, glad he's not hurt
Had been drinking. Was not drunk. Was stupid to try and go home alone. I've been around the world a couple times and this is the first time I've had something like this happen. I was completely to blame for being by myself, and for not just bailing out of that cab immediately when the random dude got in. Live and learn.
bank will probably do it as part of the investigation, but if they used a portable ATM, they can track that and where the money was sent. luckily you werent able to take out any cash, which wouldnt be traceable.
I hope he's ok, and gets his money back. Basically he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Hopefully, if he has to be in a similar situation in the future, he gets a few guys to help send him home. I also hope this doesn't sour his stay in China too much.
Hey man, glad you are OK. I think you did exactly the right thing, just comply with what they ask you and don't try to play hero. You can always replace lost money, while you can't replace your personal wellbeing as easily.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
Good for you, I lived in China for 6 years. Never been robbed, stabbed, or any between. Mr bitter put himself in a crappy situation tbh
Wait how is this in any way on MrBitter. Unless he was walking through the most robbery-infested area with a sign saying "PLEASE MUG ME" I'd say he deserves our compassion at this moment and not blame.
Ummm... I don't know, but very few people in their right mind let other guys hop into a cab with you and tell the cab driver where to go, let alone follow a stranger to a dark hole in the wall and then become surprised about being mugged.
Either Mr Bitter was drunk out of his skull at 11pm, or more likely, like thousands of other white guys in the mystic orient, went to some dank dark corner looking for cheap nookie (me so horny, me love you long time) and got his wallet cleaned out instead.
Of course, Mr Bitter is a victim and deserves our sympathy, but don't mind me for being suspicious about how he got into his predicament in the first place
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
Good for you, I lived in China for 6 years. Never been robbed, stabbed, or any between. Mr bitter put himself in a crappy situation tbh
Wait how is this in any way on MrBitter. Unless he was walking through the most robbery-infested area with a sign saying "PLEASE MUG ME" I'd say he deserves our compassion at this moment and not blame.
Ummm... I don't know, but very few people in their right mind let other guys hop into a cab with you and tell the cab driver where to go, let alone follow a stranger to a dark hole in the wall and then become surprised about being mugged.
Either Mr Bitter was drunk out of his skull at 11pm, or more likely, like thousands of other white guys in the mystic orient, went to some dank dark corner looking for cheap nookie (me so horny, me love you long time) and got his wallet cleaned out instead.
Of course, Mr Bitter is a victim and deserves our sympathy, but don't mind me for being suspicious about how he got into his predicament in the first place
Come on Bitter, be more careful next time!
if he wanted hookers why would he go to some shady part of town, the white bars are full of them...
pretty sure there's no way you're getting your money back.. I've been to a lot of sketchy places in china... only carry cash and lock the rest of that shit away... I've heard of too many people getting scammed like this...
Glad to see the internet is still willing to base their opinion on an entire country on one specific case of occurrence, I mean seriously guys? Did your teachers never teach you anything about forming prejudices?
Sorry that this happened to you. Traveling to any new country alone and being an obvious tourist attracts all the wrong types of attention.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
Good for you, I lived in China for 6 years. Never been robbed, stabbed, or any between. Mr bitter put himself in a crappy situation tbh
Wait how is this in any way on MrBitter. Unless he was walking through the most robbery-infested area with a sign saying "PLEASE MUG ME" I'd say he deserves our compassion at this moment and not blame.
Ummm... I don't know, but very few people in their right mind let other guys hop into a cab with you and tell the cab driver where to go, let alone follow a stranger to a dark hole in the wall and then become surprised about being mugged.
Either Mr Bitter was drunk out of his skull at 11pm, or more likely, like thousands of other white guys in the mystic orient, went to some dank dark corner looking for cheap nookie (me so horny, me love you long time) and got his wallet cleaned out instead.
Of course, Mr Bitter is a victim and deserves our sympathy, but don't mind me for being suspicious about how he got into his predicament in the first place
Come on Bitter, be more careful next time!
if he wanted hookers why would he go to some shady part of town, the white bars are full of them...
Off topic but never underestimate the sleazy mind of a healthy 20+ plus full bodied male. Or any male for the matter. Guys I know with model girlfriends still patronize hookers to do the nasty with them. And not the high-end escort types which their bonuses and trust funds allow but the 10 clients a night streetwalkers.
Stupid as stupid does but the world's a crazy place.
Any chance the cab driver was in on it? I know you said you could have just gotten out as soon as the other guy got in, but how do you know he wouldn't have just grabbed you or some shit....
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe"
China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of.
China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there.
But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group.
I feel sorry for Mr.Bitter but your post is insanely misinformed. I have lived both in China and the US for many years, and I could assure you that major cities in the U.S. like NYC, Chicago, and LA are much more dangerous than Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong. You comparing China to North Korea only illustrates your ignorance towards China.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
Good for you, I lived in China for 6 years. Never been robbed, stabbed, or any between. Mr bitter put himself in a crappy situation tbh
Wait how is this in any way on MrBitter. Unless he was walking through the most robbery-infested area with a sign saying "PLEASE MUG ME" I'd say he deserves our compassion at this moment and not blame.
Ummm... I don't know, but very few people in their right mind let other guys hop into a cab with you and tell the cab driver where to go, let alone follow a stranger to a dark hole in the wall and then become surprised about being mugged.
Either Mr Bitter was drunk out of his skull at 11pm, or more likely, like thousands of other white guys in the mystic orient, went to some dank dark corner looking for cheap nookie (me so horny, me love you long time) and got his wallet cleaned out instead.
Of course, Mr Bitter is a victim and deserves our sympathy, but don't mind me for being suspicious about how he got into his predicament in the first place
Come on Bitter, be more careful next time!
if he wanted hookers why would he go to some shady part of town, the white bars are full of them...
Off topic but never underestimate the sleazy mind of a healthy 20+ plus full bodied male. Or any male for the matter. Guys I know with model girlfriends still patronize hookers to do the nasty with them. And not the high-end escort types which their bonuses and trust funds allow but the 10 clients a night streetwalkers.
Stupid as stupid does but the world's a crazy place.
Pretty sure that Mr. Bitter isnt that type of guy.
On November 16 2012 07:56 bearhug wrote: Don't worry. Call the police. They will most likely find those people and get the money back for you in a few days.
Police won't care. As long as foreigners are not harmed, stealing money from them is fair game. Beating up or worse still, murdering a foreigner makes the local gong-an look pretty bad and they will come down hard and probably round up some random street toughs if they can't find the perpetrators. But since its only a matter of $2000 and Bitter is fortunately not injured, they could care less.
The best Bitter can do is file a police report, keep a copy and try to get the bank to reimburse his account.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe"
China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of.
China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there.
But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group.
I feel sorry for Mr.Bitter but your post is insanely misinformed. I have lived both in China and the US, and I could assure you that major cities in the U.S. like NYC, Chicago, and LA are much more dangerous than Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong.
It depends on your definition of safety. Drinking in a major entertainment district and then getting into a licensed cab seems a lot safer in the United States than in China. [I am going to skip the whole life experience one-up-man-ship because how do you know who I am, maybe I am the boss of the Shanghai whorehouse who ripped Mr. Bitter of and now I am just here to enjoy his humiliation because I am more of a Frodan-Roterdam fan]
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
Good for you, I lived in China for 6 years. Never been robbed, stabbed, or any between. Mr bitter put himself in a crappy situation tbh
Wait how is this in any way on MrBitter. Unless he was walking through the most robbery-infested area with a sign saying "PLEASE MUG ME" I'd say he deserves our compassion at this moment and not blame.
I'm surprised it's even possible to withdraw 2 thousand dollars from an ATM in one day. Most banks won't allow such large ATM withdrawals for exactly this reason.
Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
On November 16 2012 06:39 KoDo wrote: I don't feel bad for Mr.Bitter there I said it. This stuff happens all the time, he wasn't hurt and he's a overly opinionated dick
User was temp banned for this post.
Is there a reason this cunt was only temp banned? I've been perma banned for calling someone a cunt.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe"
China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of.
China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there.
But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group.
I feel sorry for Mr.Bitter but your post is insanely misinformed. I have lived both in China and the US, and I could assure you that major cities in the U.S. like NYC, Chicago, and LA are much more dangerous than Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong.
It depends on your definition of safety. Drinking in a major entertainment district and then getting into a licensed cab seems a lot safer in the United States than in China. [I am going to skip the whole life experience one-up-man-ship because how do you know who I am, maybe I am the boss of the Shanghai whorehouse who ripped Mr. Bitter of and now I am just here to enjoy his humiliation because I am more of a Frodan-Roterdam fan]
I find this difficult to believe. Frodan-Bitter is clearly the superior pairing.
Also, cab drivers hijacking passengers for a shake down is fairly uncommon in the US. Especially with how difficult it is to become a licensed taxi driver - the major cities hold very strongly to the franchising opportunities, and in NYC especially ALL cabs are run by the city on a very tight leash. (Taking into account the push for GPS in all cabs.) Obviously, I can't say the same about Shanghai, because I don't know. But it's also something that is very commonly told to travelers - never get in an unlicensed cab, and even then don't get in without first deciding on the price/rate.
As far as Mr. Bitter inviting it, only in that he was in China and is a foreigner. That may be similar everywhere, though - it could be assumed to be easier to target foreign travelers, since they won't be around after their trip is over and a criminal can probably hide until then. Or, if there's a corrupt legal system, the process can be prolonged until the traveler leaves. YMMV, and it definitely will depend on all the other factors.
Glad Mr. Bitter was unharmed - and hope his casting continues to be quality throughout the upcoming BWC.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe"
China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of.
China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there.
But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group.
I feel sorry for Mr.Bitter but your post is insanely misinformed. I have lived both in China and the US, and I could assure you that major cities in the U.S. like NYC, Chicago, and LA are much more dangerous than Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong.
It depends on your definition of safety. Drinking in a major entertainment district and then getting into a licensed cab seems a lot safer in the United States than in China. [I am going to skip the whole life experience one-up-man-ship because how do you know who I am, maybe I am the boss of the Shanghai whorehouse who ripped Mr. Bitter of and now I am just here to enjoy his humiliation because I am more of a Frodan-Roterdam fan]
lol. a Shanghai whorehouse boss comes to TL everyday in the last five years, posted thousands of comments, play sc2(NA), watch every GSL, got to high master, watch pro streams. wtf?
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
lol, if you got beaten up pretty bad, medical fee maybe over $2000.
man, a similar thing happenned (actually, almost identical) to a guy I worked with a few years ago. Bunch of chinese guys got in his cab, tipped the driver, they took him to a shady whore house, beat him up and stole his watch (rolex) and wallet (few hundred bucks in cash).
You got off way better... he lost a 8k watch, 2 broken ribs and a couple of missing teeth :/
Don't forget, any major city is dangerous. It has nothing to do with certain countries.
But, China has 'taxi inspectors' that are supposed to warn and assist forreigners in the 'rougher' regions. Perhaps you just got unlucky. It's actually more common than you think.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe"
China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of.
China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there.
But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group.
I feel sorry for Mr.Bitter but your post is insanely misinformed. I have lived both in China and the US, and I could assure you that major cities in the U.S. like NYC, Chicago, and LA are much more dangerous than Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong.
It depends on your definition of safety. Drinking in a major entertainment district and then getting into a licensed cab seems a lot safer in the United States than in China. [I am going to skip the whole life experience one-up-man-ship because how do you know who I am, maybe I am the boss of the Shanghai whorehouse who ripped Mr. Bitter of and now I am just here to enjoy his humiliation because I am more of a Frodan-Roterdam fan]
lol. a Shanghai whorehouse boss comes to TL everyday in the last five years, posted thousands of comments, play sc2(NA), watch every GSL, got to high master, watch pro streams. wtf?
obviously the mugging was just a cover up and he was just a mr bitter antifan who wanted to show him up
Reminds me of my friend on a trip in vietnam, he was waiting to get into a museum and a random passerby came and knowing he was a foreigner, (although asian still), asked if he wanted to go on one of those ricket rides where the guy pulls you around town and site seeing. He promised it was going to take only 20 minutes and he'd be back in time for the museum opening, and said it'd cost about 10 bucks. Friend and his wife say sure why not, and hop on, there's tons of these guys running around so they felt it was safe and better than standing around for 20 minutes. after 10-15 minutes of legit sight seeing, the guy says he's going to take them back but then turns into a dark alley, and demands 2000 bucks. My friend says what no fucking way, fuck you, and then 3 giant men came out of the alley as well as another man blocking the only exit out of the alley way. Myf riend luckily only had a few hundred bucks on him and gave him all he had minus the fare he needed to taxi home from the museum, the ricket driver takes it hands it to a big guy and then proceeds to take them back to the museum and disappears afterwards.
This kinda shit happens all the time, not truly bitter's fault although he could've avoided it, I'm just glad he's okay.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe"
China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of.
China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there.
But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group.
I feel sorry for Mr.Bitter but your post is insanely misinformed. I have lived both in China and the US, and I could assure you that major cities in the U.S. like NYC, Chicago, and LA are much more dangerous than Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong.
It depends on your definition of safety. Drinking in a major entertainment district and then getting into a licensed cab seems a lot safer in the United States than in China. [I am going to skip the whole life experience one-up-man-ship because how do you know who I am, maybe I am the boss of the Shanghai whorehouse who ripped Mr. Bitter of and now I am just here to enjoy his humiliation because I am more of a Frodan-Roterdam fan]
I find this difficult to believe. Frodan-Bitter is clearly the superior pairing.
Also, cab drivers hijacking passengers for a shake down is fairly uncommon in the US. Especially with how difficult it is to become a licensed taxi driver - the major cities hold very strongly to the franchising opportunities, and in NYC especially ALL cabs are run by the city on a very tight leash. (Taking into account the push for GPS in all cabs.) Obviously, I can't say the same about Shanghai, because I don't know. But it's also something that is very commonly told to travelers - never get in an unlicensed cab, and even then don't get in without first deciding on the price/rate.
As far as Mr. Bitter inviting it, only in that he was in China and is a foreigner. That may be similar everywhere, though - it could be assumed to be easier to target foreign travelers, since they won't be around after their trip is over and a criminal can probably hide until then. Or, if there's a corrupt legal system, the process can be prolonged until the traveler leaves. YMMV, and it definitely will depend on all the other factors.
Glad Mr. Bitter was unharmed - and hope his casting continues to be quality throughout the upcoming BWC.
Look, I'm not saying the police are not corrupt in China. They are. However, again as I said Mr Bitter:
a) Allowed a stranger to get in the cab with him b) Got off with stranger at a unknown destination c) Followed a stranger to a probable "whore house"
Again, like you said, he's a victim and deserves our sympathy (even if he was looking for prostitutes) but given his actions, you can't really make a blanket judgement about the public safety of cities like Shanghai. Plenty of tourists in the US get rolled after getting drunk or visiting a hooker off craigslist too.
On November 16 2012 07:14 MrBitter wrote: Hey guys,
I'm more embarrassed about this whole situation than anything else. Here's the story.
There is nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed about. I'm not even sure why you think so. Yes it's better to travel in groups and if you had had amazing reaction times you might have been able to ditch the cab right when the guy entered, but you did good. Anyone would have frozen for bit of WTF time in a situation like that.
For those asking why the robbers were so nice it's about maintaining a civilized and plausible veneer. Pointing a gun at someone is not something the police can ignore. But if they just imply the threat of violence then the entire event can be explained away as this foreigner sharing a cab and going on a spending spree in a bad part of town. They can say, "Did anyone point a gun at you? No?" Think about how much harder that is to prosecute from the police point of view.
On November 16 2012 08:24 malaan wrote: man, a similar thing happenned (actually, almost identical) to a guy I worked with a few years ago. Bunch of chinese guys got in his cab, tipped the driver, they took him to a shady whore house, beat him up and stole his watch (rolex) and wallet (few hundred bucks in cash).
You got off way better... he lost a 8k watch, 2 broken ribs and a couple of missing teeth :/
Don't forget, any major city is dangerous. It has nothing to do with certain countries.
But, China has 'taxi inspectors' that are supposed to warn and assist forreigners in the 'rougher' regions. Perhaps you just got unlucky. It's actually more common than you think.
Foreigners in China are always targets for thievery. Shanghai is definitely a hotpot for gangs and thieves, but robbing someone and forcing him to withdraw $2000 is pretty rare...
btw if you get caught in China committing a robbery (especially a noticeable foreigner). The punishment is very severe.
I've lived in China for over a decade, only been to Shanghai a few times, but this kinda of thing is definitely rare... hope everything is well with MrBitter
Sorry to hear that mr. bitter. Good to know you are alright and safe though.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
They certainly do not care if you don't speak English because they probably don't speak that language themselves. Money is the language everyone understands.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
Chances are, getting beat up is the least of his concern, he probably could have been killed (remember, this is china). Saying you would do something and actually being in the situation is totally different.
@MrBitter Don't blame yourself for that. Afterwards you can always find things you could have done differently. No matter what you do there is always a small risk for you. Live your life without fear and if an unlucky situation appears just deal with it and move on (like you did). Sometimes shit just happens. Saying it was stupid to be alone there is not the right way imho.
I really would advice to go to the police. Just that you officially called that in might help a lot. The bank might cancel the payment, they could investigate where the money is going to, maybe the bank has some insurance for stolen money etc. I would just take the time for that. Like at a car accident. If you don't report it then the insurance probably won't pay.
300$ limit for withdrawal of cash i guess? it might be a different limit for transactions. If you're lucky you might get back the 1600$. Usually you have some kind of insurance...
sorry to hear that this happened to you.. ive been to shanghai once because my father works there and im gonna be there for christmas. I wont take a cab for sure... good thing my father has a driver.
I guess the only thing you could have done was to react faster and get out of the cab immediately or call a cab instead of taking one.
Look, I'm not saying the police are not corrupt in China. They are. However, again as I said Mr Bitter:
a) Allowed a stranger to get in the cab with him b) Got off with stranger at a unknown destination c) Followed a stranger to a probable "whore house"
You're being ridiculous. The only plausible thing he could have done was jump out of the cab before it started moving and if you really enter every cab on high alert ready to spring into action then good on you. This type of thing would be exceptionally rare in NYC and the police wouldn't ignore it afterwards either.
On November 16 2012 08:33 SpikeStarcraft wrote: 300$ limit for withdrawal of cash i guess? it might be a different limit for transactions. If you're lucky you might get back the 1600$. Usually you have some kind of insurance...
sorry to hear that this happened to you.. ive been to shanghai once because my father works there and im gonna be there for christmas. I wont take a cab for sure... good thing my father has a driver.
I guess the only thing you could have done was to react faster and get out of the cab immediately or call a cab instead of taking one.
Getting money back from a debit card is a huge pain in the ass. Its not like a credit card where the charges are just cancelled and the bank can just say a big FU to the merchant.
Money can be reimbursed especially since most of the charges are from a Pin transaction and you weren't the person to physically withdraw money according to your post. But you're looking at a long process and you will definitely need a police report to file the reimbursement claim.
BTW MrBitter, make sure you bring it up and complain to your Chinese host. WCS is hosted by 163.net IIRC and they have some pull in Shanghai. Pretty sure they'd be on top of it to avoid losing face.
Look, I'm not saying the police are not corrupt in China. They are. However, again as I said Mr Bitter:
a) Allowed a stranger to get in the cab with him b) Got off with stranger at a unknown destination c) Followed a stranger to a probable "whore house"
You're being ridiculous. The only plausible thing he could have done was jump out of the cab before it started moving and if you really enter every cab on high alert ready to spring into action then good on you. This type of thing would be exceptionally rare in NYC and the police wouldn't ignore it afterwards either.
Read his post on the 3rd page, even he says he could have walked away at two points. But like I said, he deserves sympathy and the bastards who did this to him are assholes but he kinda made a series of dumb and dumber mistakes too.
Police will take a report but I can guarantee you that the Shanghai Gong-an is not going to move mountains and rivers to hunt down the criminals either.
Look, I'm not saying the police are not corrupt in China. They are. However, again as I said Mr Bitter:
a) Allowed a stranger to get in the cab with him b) Got off with stranger at a unknown destination c) Followed a stranger to a probable "whore house"
You're being ridiculous. The only plausible thing he could have done was jump out of the cab before it started moving and if you really enter every cab on high alert ready to spring into action then good on you. This type of thing would be exceptionally rare in NYC and the police wouldn't ignore it afterwards either.
Read his post on the 3rd page, even he says he could have walked away at two points. But like I said, he deserves sympathy and the bastards who did this to him are assholes but he kinda made a series of dumb and dumber mistakes too.
Police will take a report but I can guarantee you that the Shanghai Gong-an is not going to move mountains and rivers to hunt down the criminals either.
Was seriously 100% my bad. I had a total wtf brain fart when the dude got in the cab, and when we stopped I was just kinda scared...
Would obviously have done a lot different if I could do it over, but that's why we say hindsight is 20/20.
On November 16 2012 08:41 ragz_gt wrote: BTW MrBitter, make sure you bring it up and complain to your Chinese host. WCS is hosted by 163.net IIRC and they have some pull in Shanghai. Pretty sure they'd be on top of it to avoid losing face.
On November 16 2012 08:41 MrBitter wrote: Been sitting here f5ing this thread for the past like, 3 hours.
Appreciate all the comments and support, guys.
I will see about filing a police report today.
Not going to expect much, and honestly am just very glad to be safe back at the hotel.
Just make sure to follow up quickly with your original bank. Right now since you're safe and sound, you just want to prioritize minimizing your losses since with the proper steps you can get full reimbursement. Ask your bank for all documents to file a reimbursement claim and get documentation from the police that you have filed a report with local law enforcement. Make very sure that the police report copy contains details of all transaction amounts and times.
The police will do nothing but you still need the paper to work with your bank.
Use skype to call since all US 1800 numbers are free with an internet connection and hold times are going to be killer. Also, probably paranoid, but card scanners were quite frequent a few years back so in case they had your wallet in their possession, you might want to cancel all credit cards and file for replacements with new numbers. I assume you've already canceled the debit card in question.
Title is slightly misleading, at least to me. Being mugged in the UK means a slightly different thing, this sounded a whole lot worse of a situation, but Bitter wasn't physically "mugged", thankfully. It sounds like Bitter made all the correct decisions in that situation. If you'd of stayed drinking a bit longer and left alone, you could of been a whole lot more out of it under the same sticky situation, and that would of been bad.
On November 16 2012 08:41 MrBitter wrote: Been sitting here f5ing this thread for the past like, 3 hours.
Appreciate all the comments and support, guys.
I will see about filing a police report today.
Not going to expect much, and honestly am just very glad to be safe back at the hotel.
Just make sure to follow up quickly with your original bank. Right now since you're safe and sound, you just want to prioritize minimizing your losses since with the proper steps you can get full reimbursement. Ask your bank for all documents to file a reimbursement claim and get documentation from the police that you have filed a report with local law enforcement. Make very sure that the police report copy contains details of all transaction amounts and times.
The police will do nothing but you still need the paper to work with your bank.
Use skype to call since all US 1800 numbers are free with an internet connection and hold times are going to be killer. Also, probably paranoid, but card scanners were quite frequent a few years back so in case they had your wallet in their possession, you might want to cancel all credit cards and file for replacements with new numbers. I assume you've already canceled the debit card in question.
First thing I did when I got back to the hotel was call my bank, so that process is already underway. Card is also cancelled.
On November 16 2012 08:49 WArped wrote: Title is slightly misleading, at least to me. Being mugged in the UK means a slightly different thing, this sounded a whole lot worse of a situation, but Bitter wasn't physically "mugged", thankfully. It sounds like Bitter made all the correct decisions in that situation. If you'd of stayed drinking a bit longer and left alone, you could of been a whole lot more out of it under the same sticky situation, and that would of been bad.
Yes, wasn't really mugged. I think fleeced might be a better term.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe"
China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of.
China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there.
But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group.
I feel sorry for Mr.Bitter but your post is insanely misinformed. I have lived both in China and the US, and I could assure you that major cities in the U.S. like NYC, Chicago, and LA are much more dangerous than Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong.
It depends on your definition of safety. Drinking in a major entertainment district and then getting into a licensed cab seems a lot safer in the United States than in China. [I am going to skip the whole life experience one-up-man-ship because how do you know who I am, maybe I am the boss of the Shanghai whorehouse who ripped Mr. Bitter of and now I am just here to enjoy his humiliation because I am more of a Frodan-Roterdam fan]
I find this difficult to believe. Frodan-Bitter is clearly the superior pairing.
Also, cab drivers hijacking passengers for a shake down is fairly uncommon in the US. Especially with how difficult it is to become a licensed taxi driver - the major cities hold very strongly to the franchising opportunities, and in NYC especially ALL cabs are run by the city on a very tight leash. (Taking into account the push for GPS in all cabs.) Obviously, I can't say the same about Shanghai, because I don't know. But it's also something that is very commonly told to travelers - never get in an unlicensed cab, and even then don't get in without first deciding on the price/rate.
As far as Mr. Bitter inviting it, only in that he was in China and is a foreigner. That may be similar everywhere, though - it could be assumed to be easier to target foreign travelers, since they won't be around after their trip is over and a criminal can probably hide until then. Or, if there's a corrupt legal system, the process can be prolonged until the traveler leaves. YMMV, and it definitely will depend on all the other factors.
Glad Mr. Bitter was unharmed - and hope his casting continues to be quality throughout the upcoming BWC.
Look, I'm not saying the police are not corrupt in China. They are. However, again as I said Mr Bitter:
a) Allowed a stranger to get in the cab with him b) Got off with stranger at a unknown destination c) Followed a stranger to a probable "whore house"
Again, like you said, he's a victim and deserves our sympathy (even if he was looking for prostitutes) but given his actions, you can't really make a blanket judgement about the public safety of cities like Shanghai. Plenty of tourists in the US get rolled after getting drunk or visiting a hooker off craigslist too.
Absolutely, Mr. Bitter had some questionable decisions there. But I'm thinking after the stranger got in the cab, and it left the bar area, his options got pretty limited quickly. I completely understand his reasoning from the point after the cab pulled away from the bar.
And I agree, there's plenty of tourists in the US that get taken advantage of - it's just usually in a different manner. (Craigslist, for example - yeah, personals section can be fun to read, but not a good place to find True Love.) Also, depending on the bar, you might be okay - most of the bartenders of my acquaintance will at least make sure you get into a cab and on the way home if you're completely gone. Partly, I think, again because of tight restrictions in place and the odds that police are waiting to ticket you if you try to drive.
I've done some questionable things in my life, but fortunately I haven't had anything go the way Mr. Bitter's story went. ("Sure, honey, let's walk around Nassau alone, at night, and try to find 'the local bar'." Turned out okay. Then again, on my honeymoon I didn't expect someone to proposition my wife by offering weed to her in front of me. (Did offer to share with me, after making an exaggerated use of my hand with the wedding ring.)
Anyways, yes, Mr. Bitter did make a few tactical errors, and it's possible for bad things to happen in the US - but I think statistically it may be more likely in Shanghai. (Storied history and culture, fairly strong underworld, fairly insular, and usually not violent in such situations if they can avoid to be. Aka, the guy was fairly polite after the fact, they gave him enough money to pay for the cab trip to the hotel afterwards.) I think in this particular situation, they know how the game works - they can extort money of Mr. Bitter, who is going to dispute the charges. At which time, they'll have already converted it to cash. The bank eats the loss (assuming they try to reverse the charges, or otherwise protect Bitter from the loss). By not being violent, they avoid a harsh police crack down, and lessen the likelihood of the foreigner from becoming overly invested in pushing for punishment.
As far as how it all happened, according to Mr. Bitter's story (on page 3), it seems like a pretty well practiced con. Not to get overly burdened stereotypes, but typical Chinese efficiency along with preparedness. Except for the breaking the law and stealing parts, pretty slick operation. (EDIT: On reading this last part, I have to say that I'm not in any way saying it's cool, a good thing, etc. Part of my job requires me to look at the planning and execution of very, very bad things. Looking at it that way, devoid of emotional investment, leads to the above sentiment.)
Never travel with credit card in china, and i was there a long time. Always get drunk and go home alone, never get mugged. But now i know the story that a foreigner told me in the plane was true, just like yours, but was in beijing. But i heard some other story, wayyyy more scary than those, and i dont think you will be here to tell us this one. Have fun, shanghai is pretty good city.
Hey man, sorry for that. I can kinda feel how it was, I was robbed by 5 15 y/o s when they put knives on my throat and asked for my wallet and my cell phone. It was about 250 euro that time ... at least your guys were more polite.
Another time we booked a hostel in bulgaria which we found on tripadvisor (cause we changed flights there and had to get a place to rest for the next 12 hours), and actually it was a mafia trap (there were 2 guys waiting with guns outside the place and one huge jeep... thank god the taxi driver was aware of the scam when we told them to stop there, and police confirmed that too right away...) They would kill us to take our kidneys! Holy shit!
You gotta be very careful on places like that. Thank god you got alright, now you have a great story to tell (dont sweat it $1600 is not much considering you they didnt hurt you).
On November 16 2012 08:52 eanxiii wrote: Never travel with credit card in china, and i was there a long time. Always get drunk and go home alone, never get mugged. But now i know the story that a foreigner told me in the plane was true, just like yours, but was in beijing. But i heard some other story, wayyyy more scary than those, and i dont think you will be here to tell us this one. Have fun, shanghai is pretty good city.
Credit / Debt card is fine and rather useful in Shanghai, but being alone at night, especially if you don't look like that you live there, is a bad idea
On November 16 2012 08:56 ZweiGaming wrote: They've got your name, and your hotel. If I were you, I'd change hotel for the rest of the stay ASAP.
Glad nothing worse happened though.
Or don't leave / enter hotel alone if that's too much hassle. It is rather hard to find a decent hotel that won't rip you off (more) and convenient.
Yes, wasn't really mugged. I think fleeced might be a better term.
I don't think it is actually. Fleeced would be like, you pay for your hotel and get charged 2000 dollars more than they said they would. You didn't want to go with these guys, never mind have them charge you anything. Mugging fits better. And it's still a scary situation because the implication of the threat of a classic mugging is what forces you to go along in the first place.
I have heard of stories like these before as I live in Beijing and have first source stories, but usually they involve Date Rape drugs. It's arranged by the Chinese mafia, the triad, and it is usually women who does it. It originates from Hongkong, but has made it's way up to Shanghai and now even to Beijing. But please, don't be discouraged.. as I would still say China is one of the safest countries in the world. (As a westerner I understand that may be hard to believe, but it truly is. Crime rates are so extremely low here).
On November 16 2012 08:41 ragz_gt wrote: BTW MrBitter, make sure you bring it up and complain to your Chinese host. WCS is hosted by 163.net IIRC and they have some pull in Shanghai. Pretty sure they'd be on top of it to avoid losing face.
And get a new hotel
Do both of these. The police wouldn't normally give a crap but they might if you do this. Might save some future victim from having the same thing happen.
It's easy to shout from your home couch YEA YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT AND THAT. It's a shitty situation and most people would have acted just like Bitter did. Don't blame yourself, at least you're ok. Live and learn.
On November 16 2012 08:41 MrBitter wrote: Been sitting here f5ing this thread for the past like, 3 hours.
Appreciate all the comments and support, guys.
I will see about filing a police report today.
Not going to expect much, and honestly am just very glad to be safe back at the hotel.
Just make sure to follow up quickly with your original bank. Right now since you're safe and sound, you just want to prioritize minimizing your losses since with the proper steps you can get full reimbursement. Ask your bank for all documents to file a reimbursement claim and get documentation from the police that you have filed a report with local law enforcement. Make very sure that the police report copy contains details of all transaction amounts and times.
The police will do nothing but you still need the paper to work with your bank.
Use skype to call since all US 1800 numbers are free with an internet connection and hold times are going to be killer. Also, probably paranoid, but card scanners were quite frequent a few years back so in case they had your wallet in their possession, you might want to cancel all credit cards and file for replacements with new numbers. I assume you've already canceled the debit card in question.
First thing I did when I got back to the hotel was call my bank, so that process is already underway. Card is also cancelled.
On November 16 2012 08:49 WArped wrote: Title is slightly misleading, at least to me. Being mugged in the UK means a slightly different thing, this sounded a whole lot worse of a situation, but Bitter wasn't physically "mugged", thankfully. It sounds like Bitter made all the correct decisions in that situation. If you'd of stayed drinking a bit longer and left alone, you could of been a whole lot more out of it under the same sticky situation, and that would of been bad.
Yes, wasn't really mugged. I think fleeced might be a better term.
While not the same circumstance (and amount) -- I had a funny charge on my debit card from my trip in Rome for 50 something dollars.. called my bank, got a new card.. and the 50 dollars was credited within a week. Debit and credit cards really aren't that different.. just one is linked to your bank account and one is linked to a credit pool, which is no different than your bank account, really. Credit Cards usually have better response / service when it comes to these things though.
Police report will basically let you get your money back, I'm pretty sure. Your bank statement should show where these transactions went, and the bank can usually follow up / track some of those. If they really can't validate the recipient, it helps validate your side of the story.
Also, as mentioned earlier, the withdrawal limit and spending limit are different. My card has a 1000 dollar daily ATM limit and a 2500 dollar spending limit. I learned that they were different when I was about to purchase a new computer that was over the 1000 dollar limit that was shown on my online checking. The bank representative said that the number displayed was for ATM withdrawals.
Well the good thing is that you are alive and not beaten up. I don`t think your choices were embarrassing at all. I would have done the same thing and the decision to not fight back when you are outnumbered is wise. The whole cab WTF moment isn`t something you can really react to if you never heard of such things happen to others before. I know after hearing your story, I will be ready to jump the fuck out now though HAHA.
On November 16 2012 08:52 eanxiii wrote: Never travel with credit card in china, and i was there a long time. Always get drunk and go home alone, never get mugged. But now i know the story that a foreigner told me in the plane was true, just like yours, but was in beijing. But i heard some other story, wayyyy more scary than those, and i dont think you will be here to tell us this one. Have fun, shanghai is pretty good city.
Please always carry a credit card. Credit cards, especially US ones, have 100% fraud protection and you can remove the balance immediately when you dispute charges (although if you lose the dispute the charge comes right back on). Debit cards are the crappy ones which require you to jump endless hoops since the money is transferred out of your bank account immediately.
That's why you always carry one or two credit cards and cash when you travel. Keep the debit card and other cards with your passport in a safe place. If you want to be safer, when you travel bring a photocopy of your id rather than your passport so you don't lose it in case you get pick pocketed. The front desk at any hotel will help you make a copy for free (just give a small tip) or you'll have to pay a bit at the business center.
If you have to entertain clients in China, you'll also have to carry cash if you don't want the charges to show up on your card or if you have to pay for hostesses. Also, most of the World is not like the US where you can use credit card for $5 coffee at starbucks or a $2 chocolate bar at Walgreens. Taxis, Fast Food, coffee, transactions below a certain amount all require cash and if you have a lot of meetings they start to add up.
But drifting off topic again. Beijing and Shanghai is overwhelmingly safe for most foreigners although probably more pick-pockets although that's not as bad as it was 10 years ago. Just don't do stupid things like stroll around drunk in the middle of the night or do anything you wouldn't do in the State.s
On November 16 2012 09:04 RiceAgainst wrote: Wow, that sucks. I still want to go to China some day, though; have a great time!
Most places, short of outright war zones, are pretty safe to travel in with a few precautions. And even mild war zones can be okay, if you've got decent security involved. You can't eliminate all risks, of course, but it's about mitigating the risks as much as possible.
On November 16 2012 08:41 MrBitter wrote: Been sitting here f5ing this thread for the past like, 3 hours.
Appreciate all the comments and support, guys.
I will see about filing a police report today.
Not going to expect much, and honestly am just very glad to be safe back at the hotel.
Just make sure to follow up quickly with your original bank. Right now since you're safe and sound, you just want to prioritize minimizing your losses since with the proper steps you can get full reimbursement. Ask your bank for all documents to file a reimbursement claim and get documentation from the police that you have filed a report with local law enforcement. Make very sure that the police report copy contains details of all transaction amounts and times.
The police will do nothing but you still need the paper to work with your bank.
Use skype to call since all US 1800 numbers are free with an internet connection and hold times are going to be killer. Also, probably paranoid, but card scanners were quite frequent a few years back so in case they had your wallet in their possession, you might want to cancel all credit cards and file for replacements with new numbers. I assume you've already canceled the debit card in question.
First thing I did when I got back to the hotel was call my bank, so that process is already underway. Card is also cancelled.
On November 16 2012 08:49 WArped wrote: Title is slightly misleading, at least to me. Being mugged in the UK means a slightly different thing, this sounded a whole lot worse of a situation, but Bitter wasn't physically "mugged", thankfully. It sounds like Bitter made all the correct decisions in that situation. If you'd of stayed drinking a bit longer and left alone, you could of been a whole lot more out of it under the same sticky situation, and that would of been bad.
Yes, wasn't really mugged. I think fleeced might be a better term.
While not the same circumstance (and amount) -- I had a funny charge on my debit card from my trip in Rome for 50 something dollars.. called my bank, got a new card.. and the 50 dollars was credited within a week. Debit and credit cards really aren't that different.. just one is linked to your bank account and one is linked to a credit pool, which is no different than your bank account, really. Credit Cards usually have better response / service when it comes to these things though.
Police report will basically let you get your money back, I'm pretty sure. Your bank statement should show where these transactions went, and the bank can usually follow up / track some of those. If they really can't validate the recipient, it helps validate your side of the story.
Also, as mentioned earlier, the withdrawal limit and spending limit are different. My card has a 1000 dollar daily ATM limit and a 2500 dollar spending limit. I learned that they were different when I was about to purchase a new computer that was over the 1000 dollar limit that was shown on my online checking. The bank representative said that the number displayed was for ATM withdrawals.
I agree. I went by the statements from Slasher / rakaka and fragbite and they all said mugged. This was before I read anything from MrBitter himself of course. Sorry for the misleading title!
That being said Im grateful you happened to run into a gang of friendly (well, relative friendly at least) people instead of some violent guys.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe"
China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of.
China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there.
But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group.
I feel sorry for Mr.Bitter but your post is insanely misinformed. I have lived both in China and the US, and I could assure you that major cities in the U.S. like NYC, Chicago, and LA are much more dangerous than Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong.
It depends on your definition of safety. Drinking in a major entertainment district and then getting into a licensed cab seems a lot safer in the United States than in China. [I am going to skip the whole life experience one-up-man-ship because how do you know who I am, maybe I am the boss of the Shanghai whorehouse who ripped Mr. Bitter of and now I am just here to enjoy his humiliation because I am more of a Frodan-Roterdam fan]
I find this difficult to believe. Frodan-Bitter is clearly the superior pairing.
Also, cab drivers hijacking passengers for a shake down is fairly uncommon in the US. Especially with how difficult it is to become a licensed taxi driver - the major cities hold very strongly to the franchising opportunities, and in NYC especially ALL cabs are run by the city on a very tight leash. (Taking into account the push for GPS in all cabs.) Obviously, I can't say the same about Shanghai, because I don't know. But it's also something that is very commonly told to travelers - never get in an unlicensed cab, and even then don't get in without first deciding on the price/rate.
As far as Mr. Bitter inviting it, only in that he was in China and is a foreigner. That may be similar everywhere, though - it could be assumed to be easier to target foreign travelers, since they won't be around after their trip is over and a criminal can probably hide until then. Or, if there's a corrupt legal system, the process can be prolonged until the traveler leaves. YMMV, and it definitely will depend on all the other factors.
Glad Mr. Bitter was unharmed - and hope his casting continues to be quality throughout the upcoming BWC.
Look, I'm not saying the police are not corrupt in China. They are. However, again as I said Mr Bitter:
a) Allowed a stranger to get in the cab with him b) Got off with stranger at a unknown destination c) Followed a stranger to a probable "whore house"
Again, like you said, he's a victim and deserves our sympathy (even if he was looking for prostitutes) but given his actions, you can't really make a blanket judgement about the public safety of cities like Shanghai. Plenty of tourists in the US get rolled after getting drunk or visiting a hooker off craigslist too.
I need evidence to support this last claim:
c) Followed a stranger to a probable "whore house"
Again, like you said, he's a victim and deserves our sympathy (even if he was looking for prostitutes) but given his actions
That's some wild stuff you are putting forward there.
I found it kind of funny how they were polite to you afterwards. I mean it's definitely a good thing, considering much worse could have happened to you, but strange nonetheless.
The other thing is MrBitter, you might experience some post traumatic stress because while after-the-fact this is one of those 'isnt that kind of funny' stories during the actual experience you probably thought there was a greater than 10% chance you'd never leave Shanghai alive. So just try to relax if you can, this might stay with you a while longer.
oh mr bitter... makes me so angry reading this, i hope the bank will claw the money back somehow
and plz need to talk to police, i know it's a hassle and everything, but even if it has the slimmest chance of improving things down the track, just give it a go
There are assholes everywhere in the world, I've had people try to mug me barely 10 meters from my own house (in what is generally a peaceful neighbourhood).
Must've been horrible being mugged in a foreign country though, atleast in your native land you have an idea of how to approach the situation/what to do.
Glad to know nothing too serious happened all things considered
On November 16 2012 08:33 SpikeStarcraft wrote: 300$ limit for withdrawal of cash i guess? it might be a different limit for transactions. If you're lucky you might get back the 1600$. Usually you have some kind of insurance...
sorry to hear that this happened to you.. ive been to shanghai once because my father works there and im gonna be there for christmas. I wont take a cab for sure... good thing my father has a driver.
I guess the only thing you could have done was to react faster and get out of the cab immediately or call a cab instead of taking one.
Getting money back from a debit card is a huge pain in the ass. Its not like a credit card where the charges are just cancelled and the bank can just say a big FU to the merchant.
Money can be reimbursed especially since most of the charges are from a Pin transaction and you weren't the person to physically withdraw money according to your post. But you're looking at a long process and you will definitely need a police report to file the reimbursement claim.
i know my father had a problem with credit card scam and it was no problem to get the money back since he had an insurance included. i dont know about the details though and if its important that the situation is a bit different
Lol seriously shouldnt be out late in a place you don't know alone. I would have been like "WTF is this guy doing taking my cab." Anyway Those Triads man...crazy mofos
On November 16 2012 08:33 SpikeStarcraft wrote: 300$ limit for withdrawal of cash i guess? it might be a different limit for transactions. If you're lucky you might get back the 1600$. Usually you have some kind of insurance...
sorry to hear that this happened to you.. ive been to shanghai once because my father works there and im gonna be there for christmas. I wont take a cab for sure... good thing my father has a driver.
I guess the only thing you could have done was to react faster and get out of the cab immediately or call a cab instead of taking one.
Getting money back from a debit card is a huge pain in the ass. Its not like a credit card where the charges are just cancelled and the bank can just say a big FU to the merchant.
Money can be reimbursed especially since most of the charges are from a Pin transaction and you weren't the person to physically withdraw money according to your post. But you're looking at a long process and you will definitely need a police report to file the reimbursement claim.
i know my father had a problem with credit card scam and it was no problem to get the money back since he had an insurance included. i dont know about the details though and if its important that the situation is a bit different
There is a difference between credit and debit though. Debit cards literally take out cash from Mr. Bitters' savings/cash account and transfer it somewhere else. Credit cards are electronic transfers from the credit company to the destination, and they can usually be reversed.
One thing missing from your lessons is that you should never carry around your debit card like that, even when you're traveling. Use it to withdraw cash, but then keep it in the hotel safe or somewhere else. It can be harder to use credit cards abroad, but I know Capital One has a student card without foreign transaction fees, and you're much better protected with a credit card than a debit card.
Considering how often tourists are targeted in foreign countries, the slight inconvenience is worth the protection.
Imagine if it were Rotti that decided to leave early and you decided to stay. I couldn't imagine how he would react or be in that situation. Anyway, Bitter, glad youre okay, thats a story of a lifetime.
Reading Bitter's fucked up story is almost a flashback for me, kinda same thing happened to me few years back. Foreigners flashing cash around in a club (yeah i know you did ) and become a easy mark.
And it's easy to say he shouldn't have done this or that but it's not that easy, you have no clue how you will react until it happens to yourself. You have to be one fucking ice cold monster if you able to think straight and react perfectly in a situation like that where your totally surprised. And if you can, join the army cause you can make big bucks with talents like that.
But next time dont take cards with you where you can withdraw that much money from, just buy some prepaid cards and cash. Fuck it if you loose that, i just buy 5 prepaid cards nowadays and deposit like $100 on each when im on travel. One in the pocket and the rest i leave in the hotel and just trash them if they are empty.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
Next time ask them if they want money or they want your life. Tell them you will give them as much money as you have with you, and you will fight them till death if they want more. They will usually take it and let you go.
On November 16 2012 09:59 rei wrote: Next time ask them if they want money or they want your life. Tell them you will give them as much money as you have with you, and you will fight them till death if they want more. They will usually take it and let you go.
kill guy, sell organs, profit
dude.. i mean, there is nothing wrong with "standing ground" against some stupid 14yo kids trying to act all gangsta on you, but "one does not simply f*ck around with the mafia"
On November 16 2012 09:57 TheSir wrote: Reading Bitter's fucked up story is almost a flashback for me, kinda same thing happened to me few years back. Foreigners flashing cash around in a club (yeah i know you did ) and become a easy mark.
And it's easy to say he shouldn't have done this or that but it's not that easy, you have no clue how you will react until it happens to yourself. You have to be one fucking ice cold monster if you able to think straight and react perfectly in a situation like that where your totally surprised. And if you can, join the army cause you can make big bucks with talents like that.
But next time dont take cards with you where you can withdraw that much money from, just buy some prepaid cards and cash. Fuck it if you loose that, i just buy 5 prepaid cards nowadays and deposit like $100 on each when im on travel. One in the pocket and the rest i leave in the hotel and just trash them if they are empty.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
Yeah we are all glad you are safe Bitter. That's the most important in this matter. The money is just one thing but they could of taken ur life if they wanted to. They seem very polite tho in some of the situations u explained. They probably saw that ur a cool and relaxed guy so
On November 16 2012 09:57 TheSir wrote: Reading Bitter's fucked up story is almost a flashback for me, kinda same thing happened to me few years back. Foreigners flashing cash around in a club (yeah i know you did ) and become a easy mark.
And it's easy to say he shouldn't have done this or that but it's not that easy, you have no clue how you will react until it happens to yourself. You have to be one fucking ice cold monster if you able to think straight and react perfectly in a situation like that where your totally surprised. And if you can, join the army cause you can make big bucks with talents like that.
But next time dont take cards with you where you can withdraw that much money from, just buy some prepaid cards and cash. Fuck it if you loose that, i just buy 5 prepaid cards nowadays and deposit like $100 on each when im on travel. One in the pocket and the rest i leave in the hotel and just trash them if they are empty.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
In the sense that its well thought out and well executed. They had a little credit machine and everything. Even took him to an ATM to make sure they couldnt get more of his money. Its not just some random crackhead with a knife.
maybe places like china are not what they are all cranked up to be, but even so you get these kind of problems everywhere anyway so its not just in china. Really sorry to hear about this mr bitter. I hope your recovering from it ok and those people eventually get caught out. Some people in this world are just incredibly fucked up.
On November 16 2012 09:59 rei wrote: Next time ask them if they want money or they want your life. Tell them you will give them as much money as you have with you, and you will fight them till death if they want more. They will usually take it and let you go.
kill guy, sell organs, profit
dude.. i mean, there is nothing wrong with "standing ground" against some stupid 14yo kids trying to act all gangsta on you, but "one does not simply f*ck around with the mafia"
those ppl are not mafia, the real chinese mafias all have military backing from the Chinese army, these people doesn't even have equipment to extract nor the expertise in operating and preserving organs. you can bargain even with muggers The only thing you can bargain with is how much trouble it will take for them to kill you. You are both giving them face, and testing how they would react and how far they would go. You can always back off if they presses on, let them know you were just buffing, and will give them everything in the bank account.
Isn't it possible for the taxi driver to have locked the doors as soon as the guy comes in? Unless you've got lightning fast reflexes, which seems unlikely after a night of drinking, Bitter might not have been able to get out of the situation anyways.
On November 16 2012 09:57 TheSir wrote: Reading Bitter's fucked up story is almost a flashback for me, kinda same thing happened to me few years back. Foreigners flashing cash around in a club (yeah i know you did ) and become a easy mark.
And it's easy to say he shouldn't have done this or that but it's not that easy, you have no clue how you will react until it happens to yourself. You have to be one fucking ice cold monster if you able to think straight and react perfectly in a situation like that where your totally surprised. And if you can, join the army cause you can make big bucks with talents like that.
But next time dont take cards with you where you can withdraw that much money from, just buy some prepaid cards and cash. Fuck it if you loose that, i just buy 5 prepaid cards nowadays and deposit like $100 on each when im on travel. One in the pocket and the rest i leave in the hotel and just trash them if they are empty.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
would have thought the banks would require the Police be notified? otherwise there isn't really much 'evidence' to go on?? aside from withdrawals in some locations that are well outside central city??
Glad to hear he is ok - we all make mistakes and he's lucky that this one only cost him $$ and a dent to his pride. I've had someone jump in a cab I'm in - to start with you rely on the driver to sort it out. Not your everyday situation. Who knows if the cab driver was in on it, seems likely though.
Hey man we're just glad you're okay, that story was pretty scary as I was making my way through it. Immersing in it as I would a novel, almost forgetting that I know you come out of it okay - I was pretty worried about how that was going to go. <3
On November 16 2012 09:57 TheSir wrote: Reading Bitter's fucked up story is almost a flashback for me, kinda same thing happened to me few years back. Foreigners flashing cash around in a club (yeah i know you did ) and become a easy mark.
And it's easy to say he shouldn't have done this or that but it's not that easy, you have no clue how you will react until it happens to yourself. You have to be one fucking ice cold monster if you able to think straight and react perfectly in a situation like that where your totally surprised. And if you can, join the army cause you can make big bucks with talents like that.
But next time dont take cards with you where you can withdraw that much money from, just buy some prepaid cards and cash. Fuck it if you loose that, i just buy 5 prepaid cards nowadays and deposit like $100 on each when im on travel. One in the pocket and the rest i leave in the hotel and just trash them if they are empty.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
thats a pretty legitimate scam.
legitimate scam
What?
In the sense that its well thought out and well executed. They had a little credit machine and everything. Even took him to an ATM to make sure they couldnt get more of his money. Its not just some random crackhead with a knife.
The ATM could be their mistake if it has a camera. Creditcard machine is probably from the place where they took him. Go to the police and they will just say that Bitter got a massage from 10 girls, was drunk (spotter at the club) handed out champagne to everyone and all the employees will back the owner and your alone with your word.
I bet you they run this scam at least 3 to 5 times a week.
On November 16 2012 09:57 TheSir wrote: Reading Bitter's fucked up story is almost a flashback for me, kinda same thing happened to me few years back. Foreigners flashing cash around in a club (yeah i know you did ) and become a easy mark.
And it's easy to say he shouldn't have done this or that but it's not that easy, you have no clue how you will react until it happens to yourself. You have to be one fucking ice cold monster if you able to think straight and react perfectly in a situation like that where your totally surprised. And if you can, join the army cause you can make big bucks with talents like that.
But next time dont take cards with you where you can withdraw that much money from, just buy some prepaid cards and cash. Fuck it if you loose that, i just buy 5 prepaid cards nowadays and deposit like $100 on each when im on travel. One in the pocket and the rest i leave in the hotel and just trash them if they are empty.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
thats a pretty legitimate scam.
legitimate scam
What?
You dont know what a legitimate scam is? Well ok, it's a scam where the police or anyone else cant do shit about.
Feel really sorry for you, Mr. Bitter. The good news is that it could have gone a lot worse. You did the right thing by being submissive to the mugger. I've seen other people fighting back and getting beaten THEN mugged.
Other tricks these Chinese thugs use usually involve taking you to a restaurant, then charging you ridiculous amount for the 'service fee'. This trick works for a larger group of tourist too because they will surround you with tons of people.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
On November 16 2012 07:25 Solarsail wrote: Why were they so 'nice'? Just asking you to follow them instead of taking you, having a pretence of you needing to pay because you're in 'their club', and then sending you back to your hotel afterwards?
Sometimes it's not worth the risk to be aggressive. Cops could be called, lawyers go in, could get a harsher sentence in jail, etc.
And in cases of gang vs gang, things can get out of control.
If they're "polite" and can get what they want, then it's better to do that than to risk all the other negatives from being aggressive.
Overall I'm glad you're safe. It doesn't matter who they are (whether you're rich or not or famous or not, etc as others imply), it's always sad to see or hear this happening to anyone. Hopefully everyone becomes more aware of the risks of traveling alone or things like that.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
Good for you, I lived in China for 6 years. Never been robbed, stabbed, or any between. Mr bitter put himself in a crappy situation tbh
Wait how is this in any way on MrBitter. Unless he was walking through the most robbery-infested area with a sign saying "PLEASE MUG ME" I'd say he deserves our compassion at this moment and not blame.
Ummm... I don't know, but very few people in their right mind let other guys hop into a cab with you and tell the cab driver where to go, let alone follow a stranger to a dark hole in the wall and then become surprised about being mugged.
Either Mr Bitter was drunk out of his skull at 11pm, or more likely, like thousands of other white guys in the mystic orient, went to some dank dark corner looking for cheap nookie (me so horny, me love you long time) and got his wallet cleaned out instead.
Of course, Mr Bitter is a victim and deserves our sympathy, but don't mind me for being suspicious about how he got into his predicament in the first place
Come on Bitter, be more careful next time!
This is one of those situations where when you hear about it or see it on the news, you think you'd do this or that but when it happens to you, you sort of freeze up because either you're nervous or you're shocked that it's happening to you.
Also once the first step happens, sometimes you feel like you already lost. For example, after the other guy got into MrBitter's taxi and they started driving (he didn't leave right away), that's when he (or anyone else) probably feels like they already lost. Like they have to follow through with what this guy is asking because they're already driving to some shady place and there's no clear or easy way out of the situation at this point.
Again, regardless of how the situation came about or whatever, it'd still sad to hear this happening to anyone. The world can be a scary and dangerous place.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
I've been mugged by noob muggers. A one is not even close to what you could experience, and these guys were actually serious. You would shit yourself in his situation.
They broke up the bones right above one of my eyes. It fractured into so many pieces that the surgeon said he's not going to risk surgery, and let it heal naturally. I could've lost an eye. And these were amateurs; kids. Real muggings are serious. If the opportunity ever happened again, I would just give them everything. I'd rather have my eye and brain than any amount of money.
Luckily, this was just a kidnapping, but I still wish him the best and hope he gets over this trauma.
On November 16 2012 09:57 TheSir wrote: Reading Bitter's fucked up story is almost a flashback for me, kinda same thing happened to me few years back. Foreigners flashing cash around in a club (yeah i know you did ) and become a easy mark.
And it's easy to say he shouldn't have done this or that but it's not that easy, you have no clue how you will react until it happens to yourself. You have to be one fucking ice cold monster if you able to think straight and react perfectly in a situation like that where your totally surprised. And if you can, join the army cause you can make big bucks with talents like that.
But next time dont take cards with you where you can withdraw that much money from, just buy some prepaid cards and cash. Fuck it if you loose that, i just buy 5 prepaid cards nowadays and deposit like $100 on each when im on travel. One in the pocket and the rest i leave in the hotel and just trash them if they are empty.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
thats a pretty legitimate scam.
legitimate scam
What?
You dont know what a legitimate scam is? Well ok, it's a scam where the police or anyone else cant do shit about.
So like a 10 pool vs a 15 hatch before pool?
More like a 10 pool vs a 15 hatch then gas before pool
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
I'm laughing so hard at you right now. You must be the world champion of haggling if you think you're going to start compromising with people who have taken you hostage. Three toes for $600? Fuck that, smash up to my ankles for $1500! Pop me in the jaw as many times as you want, as long as you're willing to give me a hundred bucks a hit! Let's ignore the fact that I'm in a foreign country, you've captured me, and I have no clue what the hell is going on here.
On November 16 2012 09:57 TheSir wrote: Reading Bitter's fucked up story is almost a flashback for me, kinda same thing happened to me few years back. Foreigners flashing cash around in a club (yeah i know you did ) and become a easy mark.
And it's easy to say he shouldn't have done this or that but it's not that easy, you have no clue how you will react until it happens to yourself. You have to be one fucking ice cold monster if you able to think straight and react perfectly in a situation like that where your totally surprised. And if you can, join the army cause you can make big bucks with talents like that.
But next time dont take cards with you where you can withdraw that much money from, just buy some prepaid cards and cash. Fuck it if you loose that, i just buy 5 prepaid cards nowadays and deposit like $100 on each when im on travel. One in the pocket and the rest i leave in the hotel and just trash them if they are empty.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
Have to say, pretty good setup those Chinese guys had tho, thats a pretty legitimate scam.
thats a pretty legitimate scam.
legitimate scam
What?
You dont know what a legitimate scam is? Well ok, it's a scam where the police or anyone else cant do shit about.
So like a 10 pool vs a 15 hatch before pool?
More like a 10 pool vs a 15 hatch then gas before pool
Sen vs Dimaga on CK in NASL, I think. Holds it ezpz
Anyway Shanghai is a pretty safe city, unfortunate this happened to him. Live and learn bro
On November 16 2012 12:03 asdffasdfdad wrote: old horny desperate guy looking for sex in a foreign country..gets mugged..why is this news?
Wow... this is actually not totally over the top offensive... you are not getting your trouble of making an account specifically to get banned worth it man!
On November 16 2012 10:45 Fruscainte wrote: Man, Chinese gangsters are super gentlemanly at least.
haha this way they could still claim that he was a drunk guy looking for some hookers, so he went with that guy from that bar to the whorehouse without opposition . He had to pay for it and did it without objecting. Since there was a limit on his debit card the guys were nice enough to drop him off at an atm to get more money. and they even got him a taxi to get back. since he was cooperative he didnt give them any reason to be violent. and i dont think this version wouldnt be totally implausible
i dunno what the laws against prostitution are like in china but if its legal then it would be pretty hard to win a trial. That would be my impression.. dunno how law in china would handle it. maybe theres corruption, maybe its not smart to press charges...
On November 16 2012 12:07 Kishin2 wrote: Something similar of a far lesser degree happened to me a few years back. Except I lost a dollar (kind of). And it was outside my house.
I'm still not understanding how they were able to withdraw over $300 when there was a $300 limit though. Weird.
maybe different limits for withdrawals and transactions
Sorry but these type of things happen all the time. Mrbitter acted extremely foolishly from start to finish and while yes it's unfortunate, he's lucky nothing worse happened to him.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
Ouch hope hes alright, that's what you get for being so nice by the way. surely theres a way to walk away with two wallets extra wallets to your name rather than lose yours to some pricks
Lol the story sounds like it's straight out of a B-movie Hong Kong flick.
Glad you are safe though. Bad situation could've been much worse! Though I have to say, the beginning of the story where you just let some random dude chill with you in the cab for a minute or two is kind of sketchy.
And the cab driver. Kind of irresponsible of him unless he specifically knew the guy was bad news.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
- You're in a foreign country and don't know where you are - You don't speak the language - You're in a dodgy area - You're outnumbered.
You have nothing going for you. You're scared and don't know what extent they will go to. My point was, whether they harm you or not they will still take your money. Why would they beat you up and then not take your money? That would just make it easier to take, so the best option in this scenario is to give them the money and pray to god they don't hurt you.
probably makes me want to stay away from China more than all the things you mentioned. Most of those can be avoided just fine. MrBitter just made some bad decisions.
That's pretty awful but we should all be relived that's "all" that happened. I mean, There have been stories like that that end with people missing a kidney. ;p
I don't know why people think big cities are less prone to crime. It's the other way around. Take the LA metropolitan area in the US, for example.
China is a country with a widening gap between rich and poor. Shanghai is the perfect example of this gap, where the rich and the poor intermingle, and in so doing produce the conditions for economic crime.
On November 16 2012 14:13 aintz wrote: shouldve just manned up and walked away. harming a foreigner is not worth it for them.
they kidnapped a foreigner, so apparently it is worth it for them. maybe at the beginning walking away was an option based on the neighborhood, but eventually he didn't have an option. saying "man up" is incredibly stupid. money is replaceable; getting the shit beat out of you is not a real option. people watch too many action flicks and think you can walk away from a serious beating.
Yeah, they wouldn't have killed him, I'm quite sure. It's too risky. If a group like that had a policy of killing they couldn't keep it up for long. Usually the less organized ones will be more dangerous because they don't really know what they're doing.
Running is a bit scary if they have mates around but I don't think that would have been the case there... I don't think the dude would have started shooting his back so running should have worked fine. Of course it's difficult to think straight in a situation like that and it's pretty shitty being lost in a country the language of which you don't speak but yeah...
Also I have some sort of paranoia about things like this so I always carry only the minimal amount of money I need and never carry my bank cards around. Also assuming it's as easy there as it is here, temporarily change your maximum daily withdraws to like 50 dollars for both transactions and withdrawals as you go traveling, and back to normal when you return... I also think that everyone should partake in some real self-defense courses(No Karate or Judo or useless stuff like that, legit women's self-defense for example is awesome for anyone). Also helps with decisionmaking and confidence(If shit hits the fan I can defend myself against this dude unless he has a gun)
Still glad to hear you're fine. Kind of puzzled by how it's possible to transfer that much, try to be more careful with that in the future and consider at least some of what I've said.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
- You're in a foreign country and don't know where you are - You don't speak the language - You're in a dodgy area - You're outnumbered.
You have nothing going for you. You're scared and don't know what extent they will go to. My point was, whether they harm you or not they will still take your money. Why would they beat you up and then not take your money? That would just make it easier to take, so the best option in this scenario is to give them the money and pray to god they don't hurt you.
Silly westerners have no idea how things work in Asia. You refuse to hand over the money, you get tortured, and then they take your money. They could be pseudo gangsters, or they could be Snakeheads or triads, you really want to mess with them? You honestly think that people will care if a white person dies in China? What do they extradite the 'psuedo-gangsters' to be tried in the US? Rofl.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
- You're in a foreign country and don't know where you are - You don't speak the language - You're in a dodgy area - You're outnumbered.
You have nothing going for you. You're scared and don't know what extent they will go to. My point was, whether they harm you or not they will still take your money. Why would they beat you up and then not take your money? That would just make it easier to take, so the best option in this scenario is to give them the money and pray to god they don't hurt you.
Silly westerners have no idea how things work in Asia. You refuse to hand over the money, you get tortured, and then they take your money. They could be pseudo gangsters, or they could be Snakeheads or triads, you really want to mess with them? You honestly think that people will care if a white person dies in China? What do they extradite the 'psuedo-gangsters' to be tried in the US? Rofl.
On November 16 2012 15:33 Zerg.Zilla wrote: This is one of the reasons i always carry a pocketknife,u just never know when it comes handy.Lucky they didn't beat the crap out of him.
If you get caught carrying that knife you could be in a lot more trouble then having to give someone your money. IDK what the rules are in Hungary, but in most countries that I've been too it's illegal to carry a hidden blade/lethal weapon without some kind of permit.
But realisticly no one will ever know you had it, but say those china gangsters had guns. What then?
Mr Bitter, why did you call the police right after that? Your reason of not calling the cop is really stupid. There are hidden cameras everywhere in Shanghai.
Btw, if there is no police investigation, supporting your claim, the bank might think it's a fraud.
Don't do stupid things again and again. Call the cop now!
The specifics almost dont matter, the real lesson is one about gut and streets here. I learned a lesson like that once and I am sure many others have. Shit sucks but at least they were never violent physically. I had something far less scarey seeming happen in a rich subburb in the USA and I flat out said no at first because I thought that would work. Got punched a few times in the face and then I learned to count and concluded that 5 guys is in fact more than 1.
The bad part of me wonders if the guy might have offered to take Bitter to a place with hot girls and in an inebriated state Bitter might have accepted. But hey, we should give him the benefit of the doubt and take his word for it.
On November 16 2012 06:03 Ansinjunger wrote: Someone send MC after those thugs.
But seriously, sorry to hear that about MrBitter. Glad he's not hurt, though that's gotta hurt the pride a bit.
Lol yeah anyone remember that fake ass story with mc chasing down a french pick pocket and getting him to swear on his mother's grave to stop evil doing? :p
On November 16 2012 14:13 aintz wrote: shouldve just manned up and walked away. harming a foreigner is not worth it for them.
Yeah! Totally! Next time you are in a foreign country basically getting kidnapped by criminals... Just man up and walk away dude. What are you afraid of? LOL. Wtf is wrong with you? Don't you think perhaps, its IMPOSSIBLE to make that "rational" (lol) decision if you are in that real life, foreign country, threat of death, 12 am situation?
edit: damn so many ppl talking about how they would have manned up. POCKETKNIFE??? Are you guys shitting me?
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
- You're in a foreign country and don't know where you are - You don't speak the language - You're in a dodgy area - You're outnumbered.
You have nothing going for you. You're scared and don't know what extent they will go to. My point was, whether they harm you or not they will still take your money. Why would they beat you up and then not take your money? That would just make it easier to take, so the best option in this scenario is to give them the money and pray to god they don't hurt you.
[...]Snakeheads or triads, you really want to mess with them?
Yeah and every gangster in italy is in the Sicilian Mafia... did you play alot of Sleeping Dogs in the past month? :D
For some reason after reading his "report", i have the picture of some weird ass anime-troop stuck in my head, with long elvis-hair and stuff.
On a serious note, you need to report that to officials. First of all, scum like that needs to be persecuted (not saying they will, but if you just don't report, they certainly wont), second, your bank will ask for prove. If you can not point on that police-investigation by then, they wll just tell you to gtfo.
In a foreign country whereby you cannot speak the native language. Best to stick with people who can if possible. Don't appear rich, like showing the hotel card is risky as it quite clearly shows you stay there. Perhaps write itt down a a piece of paper or something. You should also never travel alone. Sase would be a great travelling partner as he can speak chinese right?
Also, taking a cab at the bar alone is risky. As a white dude in a bar in china means that you are 100% a tourist and most likely rich. People travelling there for WCS should watch out and be careful :D
Bitter said they used a credit card machine, i was wondering how stupid the robber was to use the POS machine. The police can easily trace down them. I think Mr.Bitter may just go to the wrong place (whorehouse or sth.),and got fraud.
I cannot believe this happened in Shanghai. Shanghai might be one of the safest cities in the world, especially to western guys. A fully accurate story might be needed to understand why. well, just a guess: someone did sth to a girl in the bar, and then ... If it was just a robbery, then Mrbitter should go to the police, and I am sure the police can get those guys caught in a few days, and get the money back.
you should contact police. even if you have nothing to say it will make the insurance claim much easier to sort out. you did the right thing by not fighting nor running, your health is more important.
Glad you made it out alright, hope everything will be sorted out and that you can look at it back as an anecdote one day (:
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
- You're in a foreign country and don't know where you are - You don't speak the language - You're in a dodgy area - You're outnumbered.
You have nothing going for you. You're scared and don't know what extent they will go to. My point was, whether they harm you or not they will still take your money. Why would they beat you up and then not take your money? That would just make it easier to take, so the best option in this scenario is to give them the money and pray to god they don't hurt you.
Silly westerners have no idea how things work in Asia. You refuse to hand over the money, you get tortured, and then they take your money. They could be pseudo gangsters, or they could be Snakeheads or triads, you really want to mess with them? You honestly think that people will care if a white person dies in China? What do they extradite the 'psuedo-gangsters' to be tried in the US? Rofl.
On November 16 2012 17:24 mrbitterloveswhores wrote: i cant beleive he posted this and thought we wouldnt make the connection LOL. goes to whorehouse, gets robbed ahahhha what a stupid fuck.
i cant believe you posted this... makes stupid account on TL.. gets banned... still a loser ahaha stupid kid
i was mugged once and i dont know if this is common but i wasnt nervous at all. i dont know if its because im damaged from all the movies but it felt like to me just people standing in front of me asking about my money. in the end afterwards i was glad nothing happened.
if scary or not im so glad he is ok. one guy i know, not a friend just saw him once, got mugged in a hotel room in thailand last week and died cause they druged him beforehand and apperantly to much.
this shit happens all the time. just comply and give your money even all the millions you own cause this green paper is not worth your life or your pride or your fighting skills you might have if they shoot you, your done.
sidenote: this can happen everywhere not just in asia you folks lol!!
Actually I am quite speechless - glad you are okay. This sounded like hell of a scary situation because you never know what these guys might have been up to other than being after your money. Sucks to lose the money in the first step though - let's hope you get it all back.
MrBitter, first of all you are a lucky person. You didn't get harmed physically at all. Money is just money and can be replaced sooner or later, but you only have one body.
It must have been a very very scary situation. I think you reacted correctly. Stay calm, give them what they want and hope for the best. Any kind of resistance would have made the whole situation worse.
The only thing I don't understand: why didn't you contact the police? I understand that you didn't know where you were and who they were, but I still would have contacted the police - worst case they could tell you: we can't do anything.
On November 16 2012 18:00 SamsLiST wrote: I tried to comment for 10 minutes now and ended up every single time with making horrible jokes around the incident XD ____________
glad to have him back.
I'm having the same problem.. it's like those asian gangster movies.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
This actually happens all the time in China, and it happened to a few friends of mine in the past. Also, it has nothing to do with being alone at night, my friends were 3 when it happened to them, and it was in the afternoon. They just walked in a small cafe in town, and the guys wouldnt let them out if they didnt pay 700 kuai each. The exact same thing that happened to Mr Bitter almost happened to me, but I could speak enough chinese to tell the taxi driver to get the other guy out of the care or I would call the police. tl;dr: it's not really his fault as it can happen anytime anywhere in China, as long as you dont speak the language you're fucked
I'm sorry about Bitter's misfortune but literally this story is so classic Chinese gangster that I was giggling. I'm glad it went alright for Bitter, sometimes its best to give that bad guys what they want they risk being in danger.
This is why when you go to foreign countries you only bring credit card, because credit cards are more lenient on these matters.
If I was in this situation and some dude got in my taxi randomly I would be so fucking pissed I would yell at the taxi driver and if nothing happens shit will go down.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
In Mr Bitters situation yes it would have intensified the situation but that is only because we know the outcome - what if the worst case scenario did happend then we would be saying well its too bad he wasnt armed
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
As for your mistake, I don't think being alone in Shanghai is, I've done that quite a few times and my understanding of Chinese Mandarin is not good enough when it comes to Shanghai's accent. I'd say your mistake was to allow someone to talk to your cab driver (as you said), allowing your cab driver to leave the main streets of Shanghai (I guess your hotel is in the center) and above all NEVER follow the guy, offer him a 100RMB tip to get back in his cab and drive you to the hotel, should work. Feel sorry for you anyway and I hope it won't prevent you from trying to enjoy this amazing city! Good luck in your cast
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
Why would a thug reduce his dominance potential over someone? He wouldn't. Criminals are criminals. We have gangs all over the US like MS13 that will kill people without a second thought. They're not going to go hmm only need a knife now because that person can only use a knife - no they're going to be like lulz I can completely have my way now because they will have a gun and a citizen won't.
On November 16 2012 18:43 kafkaesque wrote: How outlandish is the theory that he just had a really fun night in a brothel and now suffers from buyer's remorse?
Then why would he make up this story? He'd just keep his mouth shut if that were the case.
On November 16 2012 08:17 tuho12345 wrote: [quote] What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
Why would a thug reduce his dominance potential over someone? He wouldn't. Criminals are criminals.
Actually, they would. Criminals don't actually want people to get hurt either, they do have a brain you know. Here in the Netherlands, I rarely hear of people being mugged with a gun. Hell, even a knife is rare, just have 2-3 tall guys standing against you and you'll pay up anyway.
On November 16 2012 10:49 Slackzftw wrote: [quote]
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
Why would a thug reduce his dominance potential over someone? He wouldn't. Criminals are criminals.
Actually, they would. Criminals don't actually want people to get hurt either, they do have a brain you know. Here in the Netherlands, I rarely hear of people being mugged with a gun. Hell, even a knife is rare, just have 2-3 tall guys standing against you and you'll pay up anyway.
We have gangs all over the US like MS13 that will kill people without a second thought. They're not going to go hmm only need a knife now because that person can only use a knife - no they're going to be like lulz I can completely have my way now because they will have a gun and a citizen won't. Seriously go youtube and watch a documentary show called gangland and type in ms13
On November 16 2012 18:43 kafkaesque wrote: How outlandish is the theory that he just had a really fun night in a brothel and now suffers from buyer's remorse?
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
- You're in a foreign country and don't know where you are - You don't speak the language - You're in a dodgy area - You're outnumbered.
You have nothing going for you. You're scared and don't know what extent they will go to. My point was, whether they harm you or not they will still take your money. Why would they beat you up and then not take your money? That would just make it easier to take, so the best option in this scenario is to give them the money and pray to god they don't hurt you.
Yeah and every gangster in italy is in the Sicilian Mafia... did you play alot of Sleeping Dogs in the past month? :D
Oh I guess every gangster for pretend in Shanghai runs prostitution rackets.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
Why would a thug reduce his dominance potential over someone? He wouldn't. Criminals are criminals.
Actually, they would. Criminals don't actually want people to get hurt either, they do have a brain you know. Here in the Netherlands, I rarely hear of people being mugged with a gun. Hell, even a knife is rare, just have 2-3 tall guys standing against you and you'll pay up anyway.
We have gangs all over the US like MS13 that will kill people without a second thought. They're not going to go hmm only need a knife now because that person can only use a knife - no they're going to be like lulz I can completely have my way now because they will have a gun and a citizen won't. Seriously go youtube and watch a documentary show called gangland and type in ms13
Glad your okey Ben. Always terrifying to get robbed Was robbed in Beijing once Was about 3000$ I got mugged for, so basically my vacation was over.
I wasn't mugged like you tho ! Atleast you got to see pictures of some naked chicks! I was just threatened with a knife at an ATM by 2 homeless dudes or something
On November 16 2012 18:43 kafkaesque wrote: How outlandish is the theory that he just had a really fun night in a brothel and now suffers from buyer's remorse?
Then why would he make up this story? He'd just keep his mouth shut if that were the case.
People need to stop projecting.
$2000 at a brothel in china, that is alot of girls hahaha
On November 16 2012 08:17 tuho12345 wrote: [quote] What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
Why would a thug reduce his dominance potential over someone? He wouldn't. Criminals are criminals. We have gangs all over the US like MS13 that will kill people without a second thought. They're not going to go hmm only need a knife now because that person can only use a knife - no they're going to be like lulz I can completely have my way now because they will have a gun and a citizen won't.
This thread is about one specific mugging of a tourist in china. How could mr bitter have gotten ahold of a gun, and why should he have used it, he would surely be dead...
On November 16 2012 10:49 Slackzftw wrote: [quote]
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
Why would a thug reduce his dominance potential over someone? He wouldn't. Criminals are criminals. We have gangs all over the US like MS13 that will kill people without a second thought. They're not going to go hmm only need a knife now because that person can only use a knife - no they're going to be like lulz I can completely have my way now because they will have a gun and a citizen won't.
This thread is about one specific mugging of a tourist in china. How could mr bitter have gotten ahold of a gun, and why should he have used it, he would surely be dead...
Watch the video above and you'll get a better picture of what criminals can do.
On November 16 2012 12:11 Slackzftw wrote: [quote]
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
Why would a thug reduce his dominance potential over someone? He wouldn't. Criminals are criminals.
Actually, they would. Criminals don't actually want people to get hurt either, they do have a brain you know. Here in the Netherlands, I rarely hear of people being mugged with a gun. Hell, even a knife is rare, just have 2-3 tall guys standing against you and you'll pay up anyway.
We have gangs all over the US like MS13 that will kill people without a second thought. They're not going to go hmm only need a knife now because that person can only use a knife - no they're going to be like lulz I can completely have my way now because they will have a gun and a citizen won't. Seriously go youtube and watch a documentary show called gangland and type in ms13
Lol, that actually proves my point. Let's say this: I couldn't find any useable statistics about armed robberies, but I guess the trend should be around the same:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list Switzerland is up there, because people are required to have a gun at home (as they're part of the Militia). Italy, United states have around 60% of homicides by gun. But most European countries have <40%. The real deal is looking at #homicides by firearm per 100.000 people. US: 2.97. Some European countries at 0.77, but most at <0.45. And most of these countries have over 50% less guns/person than the US has.
One out of every three Americans knows someone who has been shot, I doubt I know anyone who has ever been shot. ( http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/27/time-to-face-facts-on-gun-control/ ) In fact, the last global Small Arms Survey showed there are 88 guns for every 100 Americans. Yemen is second at 54. Serbia and Iraq are among the other countries in the top 10.
You really want to compare yourself to those countries?
I guess Ice-T can explain it the best for you, the problem with Americans is that they're stuck:
Almost exactly the same thing happened to me in Windhoek, capital of Namibia. The timing was terrible, I had over 10000$ in the bank at the time after 6 months working nights in a storage facility. I just kept insisting I didn't have the pin code even though they beat me, because there was no fucking way I was losing 10k, so they ended up taking my cash (a measly ~40$) and dumping me in the street. Still to this day I don't know why they didn't pull a weapon of some kind, maybe they hadn't done it before or whatever. It's terrible to have something like this happen, but you learn a lot from it...only carry cash, always stay with a group, and take a taxi home together, put a daily limit on ALL YOUR CARDS (like 500$ for me), and use your brain.
Granted, I lived in another city but when I lived in China for 6 months, I felt completely fine walking around town with about the equivalent of three month salaries in China in my pocket. I've always had a lot of cash money with me, yet never been even attempted to get robbed.
It should be easy to cach them since there are always cameras in atms (at least in sweden) and they can just trace the transactions. He should get the money back without too much of a problem.
On November 16 2012 19:30 shadymmj wrote: welcome to china, next time stick to hong kong, macau and the republic of china, where there is law and order.
FYI Hong Kong/Macau also has these type of cases. Hong Kong infamously is known for having a lot of triad gangs.
On November 16 2012 12:11 Slackzftw wrote: [quote]
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
Why would a thug reduce his dominance potential over someone? He wouldn't. Criminals are criminals.
Actually, they would. Criminals don't actually want people to get hurt either, they do have a brain you know. Here in the Netherlands, I rarely hear of people being mugged with a gun. Hell, even a knife is rare, just have 2-3 tall guys standing against you and you'll pay up anyway.
We have gangs all over the US like MS13 that will kill people without a second thought. They're not going to go hmm only need a knife now because that person can only use a knife - no they're going to be like lulz I can completely have my way now because they will have a gun and a citizen won't. Seriously go youtube and watch a documentary show called gangland and type in ms13
what i take from that vid is what they say at the beginning: someone from the gang got shot cause someone had a gun, so they also started shooting people because they have guns as well
wow that is really shocking, I guess I really have to take my parents words for it when they tell me to be careful where I go in asia, or in other countries in general. While it seems like it would never happen to you, this just shows anyone could be affected. Luckily for bitter all they wanted was money rather than be more extreme.
On November 16 2012 19:30 shadymmj wrote: welcome to china, next time stick to hong kong, macau and the republic of china, where there is law and order.
I live in Shanghai and I feel much safer here than when i lived in sydney because there are so many people everywhere and as a westerner there is always a lot of attention on you. Mr Bitter made a mistake not stopping the cab and getting out immediately, and good on him admitting his mistakes.
Holy shit, I think that is everybody's nightmare when travelling over seas. If there was a place we could donate to help you out I would chuck in a bit.
On November 16 2012 19:30 shadymmj wrote: welcome to china, next time stick to hong kong, macau and the republic of china, where there is law and order.
You are right, Mr.Bitter should have gone to Hong Kong and just abandoned BWC.
On November 16 2012 12:21 SpikeStarcraft wrote: [quote]
how would you know for sure? you're life is on the line. and they dont necessarily have to get caught. Corruption in China might be big enough to hide it. Dunno if its smart to try to be a hero. I wouldnt gamble my life or my health for 2000$. Thats nothing. It doesnt take much time to earn 2000$
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
Why would a thug reduce his dominance potential over someone? He wouldn't. Criminals are criminals.
Actually, they would. Criminals don't actually want people to get hurt either, they do have a brain you know. Here in the Netherlands, I rarely hear of people being mugged with a gun. Hell, even a knife is rare, just have 2-3 tall guys standing against you and you'll pay up anyway.
We have gangs all over the US like MS13 that will kill people without a second thought. They're not going to go hmm only need a knife now because that person can only use a knife - no they're going to be like lulz I can completely have my way now because they will have a gun and a citizen won't. Seriously go youtube and watch a documentary show called gangland and type in ms13
Lol, that actually proves my point. Let's say this: I couldn't find any useable statistics about armed robberies, but I guess the trend should be around the same:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list Switzerland is up there, because people are required to have a gun at home (as they're part of the Militia). Italy, United states have around 60% of homicides by gun. But most European countries have <40%. The real deal is looking at #homicides by firearm per 100.000 people. US: 2.97. Some European countries at 0.77, but most at <0.45. And most of these countries have over 50% less guns/person than the US has.
One out of every three Americans knows someone who has been shot, I doubt I know anyone who has ever been shot. ( http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/27/time-to-face-facts-on-gun-control/ ) In fact, the last global Small Arms Survey showed there are 88 guns for every 100 Americans. Yemen is second at 54. Serbia and Iraq are among the other countries in the top 10.
You really want to compare yourself to those countries?
Most EU countries have less than 40% homicides by gun and US is at 60%? I don't know the gun laws in all of the EU countries but I assume they're mostly banned. If they are banned and most gun homicides with some over 40% and some maybe a little less than 40% even with a BAN shows gun banning doesn't stop gun crimes for one thing. The next thing it means is who is getting those guns but criminals and who is unarmed at the same time?
Ice-T is for Gun rights. He is correct that our right to own arms is to prevent tyranny and to not have dictators. Sure he said "If everyone else didn't have any guns then I'll put my guns away too" roughly, but the reality is we don't live in that kind of world, its like trying to get all of the countries with nukes to not use their nukes anymore, they won't.
On November 16 2012 19:30 shadymmj wrote: welcome to china, next time stick to hong kong, macau and the republic of china, where there is law and order.
You are right, Mr.Bitter should have gone to Hong Kong and just abandoned BWC.
It's basically an ignorant post. There is always an inherited risk going over seas and Mr. Bitter didn't take many pre-cautions when choosing a cab. I think investigating into things a little bit is always a good idea.
We all get in these situations, I once was a good Samaritan and pulled over to help a drunk guy who was passed out. He took the keys out of my car and tried to punch me in the face. I also once called a guy a dick head as he was trying to run me and my friends over in his car. He hopped out the car and pulled a gun out on us.
It happens to everyone, some people are just morons..
$1600 and the experience > your life, be grateful that you're alive. There are worse things that could'vew happened, like getting raped after and then thrown at the river in a cemented drum etc
On November 16 2012 19:30 shadymmj wrote: welcome to china, next time stick to hong kong, macau and the republic of china, where there is law and order.
You are right, Mr.Bitter should have gone to Hong Kong and just abandoned BWC.
no offense, it's not a tournament to get excited over...there's like, 2 contenders?
On November 16 2012 19:30 shadymmj wrote: welcome to china, next time stick to hong kong, macau and the republic of china, where there is law and order.
You are right, Mr.Bitter should have gone to Hong Kong and just abandoned BWC.
no offense, it's not a tournament to get excited over...there's like, 2 contenders?
On November 16 2012 19:30 shadymmj wrote: welcome to china, next time stick to hong kong, macau and the republic of china, where there is law and order.
FYI Hong Kong/Macau also has these type of cases. Hong Kong infamously is known for having a lot of triad gangs.
That's very terrifying actually. Reading that definitely gave me a good sense of the danger and what it would be like to be in a situation like that - how much could go wrong etc. I wanted to bring up another point though and even though Mr Bitter got out alive and well it could go wrong in many other variations just like you say - even if he didn't show any resistance something still could have gone wrong, with that said, we in the US should consider ourselves grateful to have the right to carry firearms, despite it having happend in china it can happend anywhere and even though some of you will look at this scenario and just say well just give them all your money, comply, dont risk it, and you should get out of the situation alive it may not work like that all the time and if you have nothing to defend yourself well you're SOL then.
Obviously this justifies everyone having firearms -.-
I can't see MrBitter's scenario happen anywhere in Western, Northern of South-Western Europe, unless you actually ask for shit like that to happen (go to 'ghetto-like' surroundings, making trouble, etc.). Hell, even in Middle-Europe should be fine. Whilst never been in the US, I'm betting the chance of this happening in big US cities are at least 3 times as much. Because if you have a firearm-right, so do the thugs.
Glad MrBitter is physically alright Sucky situation, but I guess going alone and probably intoxicated to some extent isn't smart in such cities.
EDIT: And this:
On November 16 2012 18:21 hp.Shell wrote: I'm of the opinion that having a firearm would have only intensified the situation, which is something you definitely don't want in that situation.
The thugs will have firearms whether its legal or not and if youre convicted you can lose that right but that won't stop criminals from obtaining fire arms anyways the problem is though, if there is no right then the self respecting citizen will be the one defenseless. There are interviews of criminals admitting if they knew citizens were always carrying fire arms they would be less likely to commit any crime when they know anyone else around them is armed.
Thugs don't need a firearm if they know civilians don't. Say you're a thug and you know I don't have any firearm on me, why bring a gun (unless you actually want to kill someone or do a bank robbery, in which case, having firearms is useless anyway), just bring a knife instead, enough threat to make 90% of the population shit themselves, especially if you're with 2 or more guys, or greater numbers in general. Result is less 'accidental' murders for $2000 mugs like this one.
Why would a thug reduce his dominance potential over someone? He wouldn't. Criminals are criminals.
Actually, they would. Criminals don't actually want people to get hurt either, they do have a brain you know. Here in the Netherlands, I rarely hear of people being mugged with a gun. Hell, even a knife is rare, just have 2-3 tall guys standing against you and you'll pay up anyway.
We have gangs all over the US like MS13 that will kill people without a second thought. They're not going to go hmm only need a knife now because that person can only use a knife - no they're going to be like lulz I can completely have my way now because they will have a gun and a citizen won't. Seriously go youtube and watch a documentary show called gangland and type in ms13
Lol, that actually proves my point. Let's say this: I couldn't find any useable statistics about armed robberies, but I guess the trend should be around the same:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list Switzerland is up there, because people are required to have a gun at home (as they're part of the Militia). Italy, United states have around 60% of homicides by gun. But most European countries have <40%. The real deal is looking at #homicides by firearm per 100.000 people. US: 2.97. Some European countries at 0.77, but most at <0.45. And most of these countries have over 50% less guns/person than the US has.
One out of every three Americans knows someone who has been shot, I doubt I know anyone who has ever been shot. ( http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/27/time-to-face-facts-on-gun-control/ ) In fact, the last global Small Arms Survey showed there are 88 guns for every 100 Americans. Yemen is second at 54. Serbia and Iraq are among the other countries in the top 10.
You really want to compare yourself to those countries?
Most EU countries have less than 40% homicides by gun and US is at 60%? I don't know the gun laws in all of the EU countries but I assume they're mostly banned. If they are banned and most gun homicides with some over 40% and some maybe a little less than 40% even with a BAN shows gun banning doesn't stop gun crimes for one thing. The next thing it means is who is getting those guns but criminals and who is unarmed at the same time?
Ice-T is for Gun rights. He is correct that our right to own arms is to prevent tyranny and to not have dictators. Sure he said "If everyone else didn't have any guns then I'll put my guns away too" roughly, but the reality is we don't live in that kind of world, its like trying to get all of the countries with nukes to not use their nukes anymore, they won't.
You're looking at it wrong. You get over 5 times more homicides by firearms than we do. That's 60% of your homicides in total. We get over 5 times less homicides by firearms than you do. That's 40% of our homicides in total.
Thus. We get less homicides, and the ones that DO happen, have 20% less firearms used. 20% is a huge number in these kinds of statistics.
In most European countries: everyone else did put their gun away, so did many others, ofcourse there will be a small minority using guns, but that's mostly for extreme cases. Robberies don't need guns anymore. Nukes are a different story, and you know it.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
On November 16 2012 19:30 shadymmj wrote: welcome to china, next time stick to hong kong, macau and the republic of china, where there is law and order.
FYI Hong Kong/Macau also has these type of cases. Hong Kong infamously is known for having a lot of triad gangs.
I've been to China many times for work, everytime i have had a Chinese (chaperone?) they all warned me multiple times that I being a white dude that speaks english like an american should never go out at night alone.
the director of the company basically assigned one of the campanies employees every day to accompany us wherever we went. (except for the hotel)
this was in Hong Kong, Beijing, and Shanghai.
China is really an astonishingly beautiful country but you really have to be weary of everything around you, if your spine is tingling telling you somethings wrong, listen to it!
anyway, sad to hear this Mr Bitter, i hope you called your bank and had the funds returned to you seeing as it was a mugging.
it also sucks that your experience there has possibly been tainted by this experience, because China has a lot to offer.
And Bitter said during a NASL broadcast that he was super excited about visiting China. At least he's okay. I would have probably done something fairly stupid and destructive once that driver pulled off. That shit makes me crazy to think about.
The best thing is that nothing really happened to you. I mean, you will most likely get the 1600$ back, and you are unhurt. You made the right choices, after you made the wrong one to stay in the cab. Hope this will not affect you further and GL with upcomming tourney casting!
Hey Mr bitter not sure if you are reading this thread... but i feel for ya man. I had a similar thing happen to me in mexico. Large guy drags me into a strip club offering to buy me drinks because "he likes canadians" go into the club and a girl walks over.. the guy buys me a lapdance.. im thinking "fuck ya being canadian is great!" the dance lasts for all of 15 seconds and the guy leaves abruptly... and 2 huge bouncers come over to me and said the dancer wants to see me in the private room. they take me down a scary ass hallway with flickering hospital lights.. looks like a scene from saw. promptly start shitting bricks. go upstairs and 10 very thug looking guys stare at me while the other 2 walk me to this room which is a plywood box with a mattress and blood stains everywhere.. oh and the stripper. I tell her i dont want anything and id like to leave and make up an excuse about my friends looking for me. she walks out of the room and tells me to wait, 5 or 6 of those huge thugs walk in, close the door. tell me i owe them for the time in the room. i said i didnt do anything and want to leave.. big mistake.. guy throws me back into the wall and says he doesnt care, its his room and i owe him money. I ask how much and he says 5k american. I explain i didnt have that kind of money. guy throws me into the wall and says they are taking me to a bank machine. luckily they didnt have a card swiper thing like in your story... so they walk me across the street to the bank, and a theres a bunch of american tourists standing around waiting for their turn.. the moment i see them i start to say HEY GUYS WHATS UP and pretend they are my friends. they see the panic in my eyes and go with the story.. so the thug guys say they are leaving and want me to pay tomorrow and ask me my hotel room number so they can come visit me. I lie about the hotel and the room, they ask the tourists if its true and they go with it and say it was.
I ended up only losing about 200 usd through the whole ordeal.
TLDR; similar thing happened to me, some tourists saved my ass tho
It sucks that you lost that money ben, but considering that you are safe is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more important.
after a while you can start to joke about it, and having such a scary/crazy story might end up being worth the money.. i know mine was :D
On November 16 2012 20:33 AJ- wrote: i read mrmugger bitten in china
AHHH! World War Z has begun!
Anyway, that's rather scary but at least he came out okay. I'd probably take getting robbed by those guys any day over any one else though. Politely takes my money and then gives me a cab ride back to my hotel... Couldn't ask for a more friendly ring of thieves. They should teach our stateside gangsters a thing or two.
So much assholes here jesus. How is it your own fault getting robbed. Those fucking retards deserve to die. Lets rob someone instead of making a decent living like a normal human being.
Nice to see that you only ended up losing money, and hey at least you have a cool story to tell for the rest of your life, small price to pay!
And I like the way chinese gangsters go about their business, not saying what they're doing is okay by any means but getting you back to your hotel and so on.
On November 16 2012 21:30 Inzan1ty wrote: China (the majority) is still very poor
you should expect the unexpected, aka better treat it like a 3rd world countty (it isnt, but it might be in terms of criminal activities)
However you are rather safe in Japan and South Korea.
What a ridiculous statement. SK and Japan have just as shady locations as the one Mr. Bitter was in. It can happen in any country.
while I do agree each city has its "dark corners", one can not deny the high difference regarding minimum/average salary between china and its "blessed" neighbours japan/s.korea, which affects the psychology of each and every of their citizen and their potential getting involved into criminal activities.
you should read up on employers for Apple or any other major company in China, the desperation of just getting their families fed is quite 3rd world level there.
On November 16 2012 21:41 Uni1987 wrote: So much assholes here jesus. How is it your own fault getting robbed. Those fucking retards deserve to die. Lets rob someone instead of making a decent living like a normal human being.
Good luck bitter
That's a little uncalled for, no?
No one was hurt and Bitter got back to his hotel safely. It was just a $1600 scared straight lesson on why you shouldn't travel alone.
On November 16 2012 21:30 Inzan1ty wrote: China (the majority) is still very poor
you should expect the unexpected, aka better treat it like a 3rd world countty (it isnt, but it might be in terms of criminal activities)
However you are rather safe in Japan and South Korea.
What a ridiculous statement. SK and Japan have just as shady locations as the one Mr. Bitter was in. It can happen in any country.
while I do agree each city has its "dark corners", one can not deny the high difference regarding minimum/average salary between china and its "blessed" neighbours japan/s.korea, which affects the psychology of each and every of their citizen and their potential getting involved into criminal activities.
you should read up on employers for Apple or any other major company in China, the desperation of just getting their families fed is quite 3rd world level there.
No. Just no. Just because China have a really large population (largest in the world lol), the amount of people in each sector (middle class, low class, high class) are more than any country. Technically, China is the richest country in the world.
On November 16 2012 21:30 Inzan1ty wrote: China (the majority) is still very poor
you should expect the unexpected, aka better treat it like a 3rd world countty (it isnt, but it might be in terms of criminal activities)
However you are rather safe in Japan and South Korea.
What a ridiculous statement. SK and Japan have just as shady locations as the one Mr. Bitter was in. It can happen in any country.
while I do agree each city has its "dark corners", one can not deny the high difference regarding minimum/average salary between china and its "blessed" neighbours japan/s.korea, which affects the psychology of each and every of their citizen and their potential getting involved into criminal activities.
you should read up on employers for Apple or any other major company in China, the desperation of just getting their families fed is quite 3rd world level there.
No. Just no. Just because China have a really large population (largest in the world lol), the amount of people in each sector (middle class, low class, high class) are more than any country. Technically, China is the richest country in the world.
maybe richest country but not richest country PER citizen
On November 16 2012 21:30 Inzan1ty wrote: China (the majority) is still very poor
you should expect the unexpected, aka better treat it like a 3rd world countty (it isnt, but it might be in terms of criminal activities)
However you are rather safe in Japan and South Korea.
What a ridiculous statement. SK and Japan have just as shady locations as the one Mr. Bitter was in. It can happen in any country.
while I do agree each city has its "dark corners", one can not deny the high difference regarding minimum/average salary between china and its "blessed" neighbours japan/s.korea, which affects the psychology of each and every of their citizen and their potential getting involved into criminal activities.
you should read up on employers for Apple or any other major company in China, the desperation of just getting their families fed is quite 3rd world level there.
No. Just no. Just because China have a really large population (largest in the world lol), the amount of people in each sector (middle class, low class, high class) are more than any country. Technically, China is the richest country in the world.
Technically? I would like to know in what sense that China is the richest @@
I'm sorry to see this had happened to mr bitter. If I was there, this wouldn't have happened.
I speak Chinese, I'm a foreigner and I could have helped him get home safely.
"Shanghai. Heaven built on Hell." -Mu Shiying
EDIT: I nominate that next year's wcs world championships be held in Taipei. I've walked out of many a bar and night club there wasted and never bad to worry about this sort of thing happening.
On November 16 2012 21:41 Uni1987 wrote: So much assholes here jesus. How is it your own fault getting robbed. Those fucking retards deserve to die. Lets rob someone instead of making a decent living like a normal human being.
Good luck bitter
I agree with this statement. What many of you don't realize is that day9, mr bitter, and all of the other casting figures in at wcs right now are world renowned and you can't expect someone to know all of the languages and customs (both good and bad)of every single country that they go to.
On November 16 2012 08:16 Slackzftw wrote: Why did he do that, just tell them you have no money or just do like you dont even speak english. "Mich nixe verstehen!" Worst thing would have been to get beat up, but I rather get beat up than lose 2000$.
What? You care about $2k more than yourself? What if they break your arm or your leg. You wanna be disable for the rest of your life instead of losing $2000? How dumb is that?
If you pay me 2000$ you can break one Leg of me.
"Give us all your money or we'll break one of your legs!"
I don't think you understand the situation here. If they were to harm him, it would be MUCH worse than just one leg. It could have been his life. Can't do much with $2000 if you're dead can you?
I'm also pretty sure that if you have a broken leg there isn't much you can do to fight back, and they'll take your money anyway. So your options are to either give them what they want and hope they don't harm you, or they harm you and take what they want. Lesser of two evils.
You have seen too many movies lol! No gangster would kill a tourist because he doesn't give him money. In what world are you living. If you didn't know: murdering people is also illegal in china and if they get caught they don't want to get in jail forever because they murdered someone. These small pseudo-gangsters who mostly only try to steal from tourists are not these type of russian mafia guys who would kill someone.
Just saying people who are mugging/scamming/robbing aren't know for making the most rational of decisions. But you are awfully confident in exactly how their reaction would have been. Also I know the leg was a joke, but having a leg broken is way worse than losing some money in my experience. Two months on crutches, and likely surgery
Just do it like me and give the cabdriver while entering his cab 100 euros and say ITS FINE GO HOTEL and puke four times on my way home (asking him to stop so i could barf hahaha)
How come this whole thing just feels so classy? Wtf?
On another point of view, he probably couldnt have gotten out the cab, shanghai cab doors are only accessible on the right side.
If Mr. Bitter was sitting at the front, and the guy got in the back, or Mr. Bitter at the back and the guy got in the front, it wouldve been ok to get out.
Now, if Mr. Bitter gets in the back and the dude comes in, whole different story.
i loled at the idea people actually think these punks will hurt a foreigner for a couple thousand dollars. id be much for scared if i was getting mugged in the ghetto cuz the chances of getting hurt is much much higher.
On November 16 2012 23:45 padfoota wrote: How come this whole thing just feels so classy? Wtf?
On another point of view, he probably couldnt have gotten out the cab, shanghai cab doors are only accessible on the right side.
If Mr. Bitter was sitting at the front, and the guy got in the back, or Mr. Bitter at the back and the guy got in the front, it wouldve been ok to get out.
Now, if Mr. Bitter gets in the back and the dude comes in, whole different story.
When living in China you sit next to the driver when on your own, not sure if Ben sat in the front... but anyway as I said you just have to forbid the cabdriver to drive away from the main axes of traffic
On November 16 2012 21:30 Inzan1ty wrote: China (the majority) is still very poor
you should expect the unexpected, aka better treat it like a 3rd world countty (it isnt, but it might be in terms of criminal activities)
However you are rather safe in Japan and South Korea.
What a ridiculous statement. SK and Japan have just as shady locations as the one Mr. Bitter was in. It can happen in any country.
while I do agree each city has its "dark corners", one can not deny the high difference regarding minimum/average salary between china and its "blessed" neighbours japan/s.korea, which affects the psychology of each and every of their citizen and their potential getting involved into criminal activities.
you should read up on employers for Apple or any other major company in China, the desperation of just getting their families fed is quite 3rd world level there.
China does have a very low average income, but most of the people in cities like Shanghai are middle class, who live on pretty decent income and the criminal rate is extremely low. From my personal experience, I feel more dangerous walking at night in Chicago/New York comparing to Shanghai/Beijing.
On November 16 2012 23:48 trinxified wrote: I do not think he will get his money back. How can he prove to his financial institution that he did not make those withdrawals himself?
Nonetheless, I'm glad he wasn't hurt!
It's fairly easy actually. It's not withdrawal, it's transfer. And it's it's easy to trace where the money went.
On November 16 2012 22:13 Enders116 wrote: I'm sorry to see this had happened to mr bitter. If I was there, this wouldn't have happened.
I speak Chinese, I'm a foreigner and I could have helped him get home safely.
"Shanghai. Heaven built on Hell." -Mu Shiying
EDIT: I nominate that next year's wcs world championships be held in Taipei. I've walked out of many a bar and night club there wasted and never bad to worry about this sort of thing happening.
On November 16 2012 21:41 Uni1987 wrote: So much assholes here jesus. How is it your own fault getting robbed. Those fucking retards deserve to die. Lets rob someone instead of making a decent living like a normal human being.
Good luck bitter
I agree with this statement. What many of you don't realize is that day9, mr bitter, and all of the other casting figures in at wcs right now are world renowned and you can't expect someone to know all of the languages and customs (both good and bad)of every single country that they go to.
I don't know what country has the custom of letting someone you don't know into your cab and tell the driver where to take you. Mr Bitter admitted that he should have got out of the cab, anything that happened after that was a result of him not doing that. the entire situation would not have happened if he just got out of the cab.
Hi, as somebody who lived in Shanghai, I'm going to give a word of advice to foreigners who go there.
First and foremost, relative to the other Chinese cities in China, Shanghai is probably one of the most safest cities in China. However, there are a lot of migrant workers in Shanghai and more often than not, it's the migrant workers that cause problems because they may not be able to find a job in Shanghai so they resort to other things, and a minority of them may resort to illegal activities.
The reason why Shanghai is safer than other cities in China is because it is a model of development for China so the government usually cracks down harder on Shanghai (ie; there are very few brothels in Shanghai compared to other Chinese cities). On average, the police in Shanghai is also less corrupt than the police in other Chinese cities. However, there is corruption everywhere in China so don't think for a second that the Shanghai police is not corrupt.
Now this is common sense when travelling in a foreign country but unfortunately, Mr. Bitter had to experience this the hard way: when you are travelling in a foreign country, you must always be extra vigilant and more cautious than when you're at home. If you suspect something is not going right, be ready to exit the situation as quickly and as peacefully as possible without offending the people you are dealing with.. This applies everywhere you travel, especially in developing countries. If Mr. Bitter had followed this rule, he would have left the cab the moment the stranger got in the cab with him.
As for violence towards foreigners in China, rest assured, the penalty is 10x more severe for the local offender if he/she is caught. The Chinese government does not tolerate any violence against foreigners, especially in Shanghai, for good reason - the Chinese government wants to keep the news free of any incidents where a foreigner is harmed in Shanghai, which is supposed to be their model city. If Mr. Bitter was severely harmed, and being an American, it made the news in the US, it would really hurt Shanghai's reputation. For that reason, I highly doubt these thugs would have had the guts to kidnap Mr. Bitter either - they simply make the threat but there is no way they would go further with their threats.
Still, if you are outnumbered, it makes no sense to fight back, especially if they just want to rob you of a few thousand dollars. You could be severely hurt if they gang up on you and/or they have weapons and the few thousands dollars you lose would be chump change compared to permanent life long injuries (or even your own life).
Overall, I would say Shanghai is quite safe to travel to compared to cities in other developing countries provided you stay vigilant and cautious. Yes, there is an obscene amount of petty crime in Shanghai day in and day out - always watch your belongings and be careful of con artists. However, the severity of crime usually does not exceed the typical petty crime or con artist situation - it rarely, rarely, goes to violent crime. Contrary to what Mr. Bitter is saying, it is quite safe to travel alone in Shanghai - just be a bit cautious and careful in the more remote areas. By far, I would rank Shanghai safer than say, New York, LA, etc.
Now what I said applies to Shanghai only. It does not apply to other Chinese cities, where the cops and gangsters are probably one and the same. I wish Mr. Bitter the best of luck and hopefully he gets to experience the better side of Shanghai rather than this ugly side.
And yes, Mr. Bitter, you should report this to the police. Unlike the police in LA or New York, I guarantee you the Shanghai police will take this very seriously and they will try to stop it, because it is bad PR for Shanghai if it gets onto the news.
Compassion is the virtue of empathy for the suffering of others. It is regarded as a fundamental part of human love, and a cornerstone of greater social interconnection and humanism —foundational to the highest principles in philosophy, society, and personhood.
It's really silly to be alone in a country which you don't know, with a language you don't know and in a city you don't know that is not something around the lines of Sweden, Norway, Germany... etc. In cities like Shanghai it's very much a silly thing to have any valuables at you whatsoever, not to say anything bad about the Chinese, but rather the fact that it's the kind of place where people work 12 hours a day to procure food... pickpocketing and robbing is pretty common.
On November 17 2012 00:37 Aterons_toss wrote: It's really silly to be alone in a country which you don't know, with a language you don't know and in a city you don't know that is not something around the lines of Sweden, Norway, Germany... etc. In cities like Shanghai it's very much a silly thing to have any valuables at you whatsoever, not to say anything bad about the Chinese, but rather the fact that it's the kind of place where people work 12 hours a day to procure food... pickpocketing and robbing is pretty common.
Pocketpicking yes, much more common, but robbing is much less than US cities, simply because there are too many people usually in streets and also you don't have a gun.
On November 17 2012 00:28 StarcraftMan wrote: Hi, as somebody who lived in Shanghai, I'm going to give a word of advice to foreigners who go there.
First and foremost, relative to the other Chinese cities in China, Shanghai is probably one of the most safest cities in China. However, there are a lot of migrant workers in Shanghai and more often than not, it's the migrant workers that cause problems because they may not be able to find a job in Shanghai so they resort to other things, and a minority of them may resort to illegal activities.
The reason why Shanghai is safer than other cities in China is because it is a model of development for China so the government usually cracks down harder on Shanghai (ie; there are very few brothels in Shanghai compared to other Chinese cities). On average, the police in Shanghai is also less corrupt than the police in other Chinese cities. However, there is corruption everywhere in China so don't think for a second that the Shanghai police is not corrupt.
Now this is common sense when travelling in a foreign country but unfortunately, Mr. Bitter had to experience this the hard way: when you are travelling in a foreign country, you must always be extra vigilant and more cautious than when you're at home. If you suspect something is not going right, be ready to exit the situation as quickly and as peacefully as possible without offending the people you are dealing with.. This applies everywhere you travel, especially in developing countries. If Mr. Bitter had followed this rule, he would have left the cab the moment the stranger got in the cab with him.
As for violence towards foreigners in China, rest assured, the penalty is 10x more severe for the local offender if he/she is caught. The Chinese government does not tolerate any violence against foreigners, especially in Shanghai, for good reason - the Chinese government wants to keep the news free of any incidents where a foreigner is harmed in Shanghai, which is supposed to be their model city. If Mr. Bitter was severely harmed, and being an American, it made the news in the US, it would really hurt Shanghai's reputation. For that reason, I highly doubt these thugs would have had the guts to kidnap Mr. Bitter either - they simply make the threat but there is no way they would go further with their threats.
Still, if you are outnumbered, it makes no sense to fight back, especially if they just want to rob you of a few thousand dollars. You could be severely hurt if they gang up on you and/or they have weapons and the few thousands dollars you lose would be chump change compared to permanent life long injuries (or even your own life).
Overall, I would say Shanghai is quite safe to travel to compared to cities in other developing countries provided you stay vigilant and cautious. Yes, there is an obscene amount of petty crime in Shanghai day in and day out - always watch your belongings and be careful of con artists. However, the severity of crime usually does not exceed the typical petty crime or con artist situation - it rarely, rarely, goes to violent crime. Contrary to what Mr. Bitter is saying, it is quite safe to travel alone in Shanghai - just be a bit cautious and careful in the more remote areas. By far, I would rank Shanghai safer than say, New York, LA, etc.
Now what I said applies to Shanghai only. It does not apply to other Chinese cities, where the cops and gangsters are probably one and the same. I wish Mr. Bitter the best of luck and hopefully he gets to experience the better side of Shanghai rather than this ugly side.
And yes, Mr. Bitter, you should report this to the police. Unlike the police in LA or New York, I guarantee you the Shanghai police will take this very seriously and they will try to stop it, because it is bad PR for Shanghai if it gets onto the news.
As a Shanghainese myself, gotta agree with this guy.
On November 16 2012 21:41 Uni1987 wrote: So much assholes here jesus. How is it your own fault getting robbed. Those fucking retards deserve to die. Lets rob someone instead of making a decent living like a normal human being.
Good luck bitter
That's a little uncalled for, no?
No one was hurt and Bitter got back to his hotel safely. It was just a $1600 scared straight lesson on why you shouldn't travel alone.
If you can simply disregard this, by saying "no one was hurt", you are out of your goddamn mind. There is no excuse for theft, none.
I'll admit that my statement was over the top, but it is infuriating to see how many people condone this behavior by "oh well, own fault, shouldnt travel alone". Since when is that a free pass to rob someone?
Sad incident. I think that Mr Bitter should tell his hotel about it and get them to contact the police for him. This incident is making China and Shanghai look bad, and so they will want to crack down on this shit and take it seriously.
Obviously this story is not released to the media per se, but this thread alone has 42,000 views so far!
Sick stuff, it really sucks ofc.. still feels like -$1600 is like hitting the jackpot in that kind of situation could have been way way worse, hope your alright and the bank is able to stop the transaction!
People saying it isn't worth a thread.. shut up please and show some sympathy for a fellow human being, and a fellow member of the community. Just because you're anonymous on here doesn't give you the right to be a massive dick.
I'm about to travel around Asia for 6months+, so not only has this served as a stroke of fortune for Mr Bitter in losing out on some money instead of a limb, it has served as a travel warning for me too.
Hope to see you casting soon. Don't feel bad about not running or fighting, I would've done exactly the same. This thread literally equates too ($1600 < your life). GGWP
Glad you're okay Mr Bitter. Money loss is far better than the loss of health and your life. Hope the rest in of your time in Shanghai is an enjoyable one and something positive comes out of the investigation.
Funny hair guy asks me what the limit on my card is.
I'm like "well fuck."
I tell him $300 US. Because it is. I have a $300 daily withdrawal limit on my checking account. This is very deliberate. I like to play poker, and I'm bad at stopping myself, so I had my bank limit me to $300 per day. lol. Embarrassing but true.
The only thing I didn't understand from this story is this. How did he withdraw 1600 despite claiming 300 is the limit?
Edit: People should always try to avoid drinking more than a bottle of beer or 100 ml (0.1L) glass of vodka (or other type of alcohol) in a foreign country unless you've lived in that country long enough so you know it well. E.g. I've lived in England more than 6 months, so I allow myself to get drunk from time to time.
On November 17 2012 01:06 wraggy1234 wrote: I'm about to travel around Asia for 6months+, so not only has this served as a stroke of fortune for Mr Bitter in losing out on some money instead of a limb, it has served as a travel warning for me too.
The thing is this can happen anywhere. It doesn't matter if its Dallas, Amsterdam, Shanghai, Paris, etc. Street smarts can only get you so far. That's why it's best to go around town in a group and to avoid certain things.
On November 17 2012 00:28 StarcraftMan wrote: Hi, as somebody who lived in Shanghai, I'm going to give a word of advice to foreigners who go there.
First and foremost, relative to the other Chinese cities in China, Shanghai is probably one of the most safest cities in China. However, there are a lot of migrant workers in Shanghai and more often than not, it's the migrant workers that cause problems because they may not be able to find a job in Shanghai so they resort to other things, and a minority of them may resort to illegal activities.
The reason why Shanghai is safer than other cities in China is because it is a model of development for China so the government usually cracks down harder on Shanghai (ie; there are very few brothels in Shanghai compared to other Chinese cities). On average, the police in Shanghai is also less corrupt than the police in other Chinese cities. However, there is corruption everywhere in China so don't think for a second that the Shanghai police is not corrupt.
Now this is common sense when travelling in a foreign country but unfortunately, Mr. Bitter had to experience this the hard way: when you are travelling in a foreign country, you must always be extra vigilant and more cautious than when you're at home. If you suspect something is not going right, be ready to exit the situation as quickly and as peacefully as possible without offending the people you are dealing with.. This applies everywhere you travel, especially in developing countries. If Mr. Bitter had followed this rule, he would have left the cab the moment the stranger got in the cab with him.
As for violence towards foreigners in China, rest assured, the penalty is 10x more severe for the local offender if he/she is caught. The Chinese government does not tolerate any violence against foreigners, especially in Shanghai, for good reason - the Chinese government wants to keep the news free of any incidents where a foreigner is harmed in Shanghai, which is supposed to be their model city. If Mr. Bitter was severely harmed, and being an American, it made the news in the US, it would really hurt Shanghai's reputation. For that reason, I highly doubt these thugs would have had the guts to kidnap Mr. Bitter either - they simply make the threat but there is no way they would go further with their threats.
Still, if you are outnumbered, it makes no sense to fight back, especially if they just want to rob you of a few thousand dollars. You could be severely hurt if they gang up on you and/or they have weapons and the few thousands dollars you lose would be chump change compared to permanent life long injuries (or even your own life).
Overall, I would say Shanghai is quite safe to travel to compared to cities in other developing countries provided you stay vigilant and cautious. Yes, there is an obscene amount of petty crime in Shanghai day in and day out - always watch your belongings and be careful of con artists. However, the severity of crime usually does not exceed the typical petty crime or con artist situation - it rarely, rarely, goes to violent crime. Contrary to what Mr. Bitter is saying, it is quite safe to travel alone in Shanghai - just be a bit cautious and careful in the more remote areas. By far, I would rank Shanghai safer than say, New York, LA, etc.
Now what I said applies to Shanghai only. It does not apply to other Chinese cities, where the cops and gangsters are probably one and the same. I wish Mr. Bitter the best of luck and hopefully he gets to experience the better side of Shanghai rather than this ugly side.
And yes, Mr. Bitter, you should report this to the police. Unlike the police in LA or New York, I guarantee you the Shanghai police will take this very seriously and they will try to stop it, because it is bad PR for Shanghai if it gets onto the news.
As a Shanghainese myself, gotta agree with this guy.
It depends on a matter of perspective. I think foreigners that don't speak Chinese are targets for stuff like this in Shanghai. If it was me, I just would have yelled at the guy 滾開! 我不知道你,你到底幹什麼來這裡? But, in Mr. Bitter's perspective, I can relate, as for the first few months I was in China, I could not speak Mandarin.
I think there are many beautiful places and nice people in China, but bigger cities like Shanghai and China are full of people that like to take advantage of what looks like your average laowai on a tour. But, assuming everything Mr Bitter said was true, this was a rather aggressive thing that the guy who took him to the "whorehouse" did.
Here's what I think went down.
Mr. Bitter went in to the bar, some random guy starts chit-chatting with him in English and discovers that bitter doesn't speak Chinese. This is what we'll call the "contact". The contact then relays the info to the escort, the guy who was in the taxi with the driver and Mr Bitter. The escort explains the situation to the taxi driver, and Bitter is powerless to communicate with the driver as he does not speak Chinese nor does the driver apparently speak English.
I've heard of stories where beautiful girls take advantage of foreigners like so. "Can you help us practice our English? We want to go to a teahouse nearby." "Sure, why not?"
They go to the teahouse and chit chat about whatever, then when they're finished (no matter how shabby or expensive the place looks), over the course of an hour and a few simple cups of what appears to be nothing more than simple or low-grade tea, the bill comes and it appears to be 4 or 5 thousand RMB. And the muscular guy at the door won't let you leave without paying.
I've even heard of foreigners having everything they owned in their apartments stolen from them (but to be quite frank, the foreigners I've heard of that had this happen to them really deserved it, in my opinion.)
What is all this talk of foreigners? We, the foreigners, are in every high-budget film that is produced in the People's Republic of China as villains (unless your name is Dashan or BenJieMing or Daniu). If you've seen Jet Li's Fearless (霍元甲), then you've seen the summary of just about every high-budget film that comes out every year in China.
On November 17 2012 00:28 StarcraftMan wrote: Hi, as somebody who lived in Shanghai, I'm going to give a word of advice to foreigners who go there.
First and foremost, relative to the other Chinese cities in China, Shanghai is probably one of the most safest cities in China. However, there are a lot of migrant workers in Shanghai and more often than not, it's the migrant workers that cause problems because they may not be able to find a job in Shanghai so they resort to other things, and a minority of them may resort to illegal activities.
The reason why Shanghai is safer than other cities in China is because it is a model of development for China so the government usually cracks down harder on Shanghai (ie; there are very few brothels in Shanghai compared to other Chinese cities). On average, the police in Shanghai is also less corrupt than the police in other Chinese cities. However, there is corruption everywhere in China so don't think for a second that the Shanghai police is not corrupt.
Now this is common sense when travelling in a foreign country but unfortunately, Mr. Bitter had to experience this the hard way: when you are travelling in a foreign country, you must always be extra vigilant and more cautious than when you're at home. If you suspect something is not going right, be ready to exit the situation as quickly and as peacefully as possible without offending the people you are dealing with.. This applies everywhere you travel, especially in developing countries. If Mr. Bitter had followed this rule, he would have left the cab the moment the stranger got in the cab with him.
As for violence towards foreigners in China, rest assured, the penalty is 10x more severe for the local offender if he/she is caught. The Chinese government does not tolerate any violence against foreigners, especially in Shanghai, for good reason - the Chinese government wants to keep the news free of any incidents where a foreigner is harmed in Shanghai, which is supposed to be their model city. If Mr. Bitter was severely harmed, and being an American, it made the news in the US, it would really hurt Shanghai's reputation. For that reason, I highly doubt these thugs would have had the guts to kidnap Mr. Bitter either - they simply make the threat but there is no way they would go further with their threats.
Still, if you are outnumbered, it makes no sense to fight back, especially if they just want to rob you of a few thousand dollars. You could be severely hurt if they gang up on you and/or they have weapons and the few thousands dollars you lose would be chump change compared to permanent life long injuries (or even your own life).
Overall, I would say Shanghai is quite safe to travel to compared to cities in other developing countries provided you stay vigilant and cautious. Yes, there is an obscene amount of petty crime in Shanghai day in and day out - always watch your belongings and be careful of con artists. However, the severity of crime usually does not exceed the typical petty crime or con artist situation - it rarely, rarely, goes to violent crime. Contrary to what Mr. Bitter is saying, it is quite safe to travel alone in Shanghai - just be a bit cautious and careful in the more remote areas. By far, I would rank Shanghai safer than say, New York, LA, etc.
Now what I said applies to Shanghai only. It does not apply to other Chinese cities, where the cops and gangsters are probably one and the same. I wish Mr. Bitter the best of luck and hopefully he gets to experience the better side of Shanghai rather than this ugly side.
And yes, Mr. Bitter, you should report this to the police. Unlike the police in LA or New York, I guarantee you the Shanghai police will take this very seriously and they will try to stop it, because it is bad PR for Shanghai if it gets onto the news.
As a Shanghainese myself, gotta agree with this guy.
It depends on a matter of perspective. I think foreigners that don't speak Chinese are targets for stuff like this in Shanghai. If it was me, I just would have yelled at the guy 滾開! 我不知道你,你到底幹什麼來這裡? But, in Mr. Bitter's perspective, I can relate, as for the first few months I was in China, I could not speak Mandarin.
I think there are many beautiful places and nice people in China, but bigger cities like Shanghai and China are full of people that like to take advantage of what looks like your average laowai on a tour. But, assuming everything Mr Bitter said was true, this was a rather aggressive thing that the guy who took him to the "whorehouse" did.
Here's what I think went down.
Mr. Bitter went in to the bar, some random guy starts chit-chatting with him in English and discovers that bitter doesn't speak Chinese. This is what we'll call the "contact". The contact then relays the info to the escort, the guy who was in the taxi with the driver and Mr Bitter. The escort explains the situation to the taxi driver, and Bitter is powerless to communicate with the driver as he does not speak Chinese nor does the driver apparently speak English.
I've heard of stories where beautiful girls take advantage of foreigners like so. "Can you help us practice our English? We want to go to a teahouse nearby." "Sure, why not?"
They go to the teahouse and chit chat about whatever, then when they're finished (no matter how shabby or expensive the place looks), over the course of an hour and a few simple cups of what appears to be nothing more than simple or low-grade tea, the bill comes and it appears to be 4 or 5 thousand RMB. And the muscular guy at the door won't let you leave without paying.
I've even heard of foreigners having everything they owned in their apartments stolen from them (but to be quite frank, the foreigners I've heard of that had this happen to them really deserved it, in my opinion.)
What is all this talk of foreigners? We, the foreigners, are in every high-budget film that is produced in the People's Republic of China as villains (unless your name is Dashan or BenJieMing or Daniu). If you've seen Jet Li's Fearless (霍元甲), then you've seen the summary of just about every high-budget film that comes out every year in China.
I think it is much more simple than you think, the guy saw Bitter leaving got into his cab quickly and before bitter could say anything to the taxi driver the chinese guy told him that they are going to a club at such and such address and because bitter did not react like he was surprised or confused about this other guy in the taxi the driver just assumed they knew each other.
On November 17 2012 00:28 StarcraftMan wrote: Hi, as somebody who lived in Shanghai, I'm going to give a word of advice to foreigners who go there.
First and foremost, relative to the other Chinese cities in China, Shanghai is probably one of the most safest cities in China. However, there are a lot of migrant workers in Shanghai and more often than not, it's the migrant workers that cause problems because they may not be able to find a job in Shanghai so they resort to other things, and a minority of them may resort to illegal activities.
The reason why Shanghai is safer than other cities in China is because it is a model of development for China so the government usually cracks down harder on Shanghai (ie; there are very few brothels in Shanghai compared to other Chinese cities). On average, the police in Shanghai is also less corrupt than the police in other Chinese cities. However, there is corruption everywhere in China so don't think for a second that the Shanghai police is not corrupt.
Now this is common sense when travelling in a foreign country but unfortunately, Mr. Bitter had to experience this the hard way: when you are travelling in a foreign country, you must always be extra vigilant and more cautious than when you're at home. If you suspect something is not going right, be ready to exit the situation as quickly and as peacefully as possible without offending the people you are dealing with.. This applies everywhere you travel, especially in developing countries. If Mr. Bitter had followed this rule, he would have left the cab the moment the stranger got in the cab with him.
As for violence towards foreigners in China, rest assured, the penalty is 10x more severe for the local offender if he/she is caught. The Chinese government does not tolerate any violence against foreigners, especially in Shanghai, for good reason - the Chinese government wants to keep the news free of any incidents where a foreigner is harmed in Shanghai, which is supposed to be their model city. If Mr. Bitter was severely harmed, and being an American, it made the news in the US, it would really hurt Shanghai's reputation. For that reason, I highly doubt these thugs would have had the guts to kidnap Mr. Bitter either - they simply make the threat but there is no way they would go further with their threats.
Still, if you are outnumbered, it makes no sense to fight back, especially if they just want to rob you of a few thousand dollars. You could be severely hurt if they gang up on you and/or they have weapons and the few thousands dollars you lose would be chump change compared to permanent life long injuries (or even your own life).
Overall, I would say Shanghai is quite safe to travel to compared to cities in other developing countries provided you stay vigilant and cautious. Yes, there is an obscene amount of petty crime in Shanghai day in and day out - always watch your belongings and be careful of con artists. However, the severity of crime usually does not exceed the typical petty crime or con artist situation - it rarely, rarely, goes to violent crime. Contrary to what Mr. Bitter is saying, it is quite safe to travel alone in Shanghai - just be a bit cautious and careful in the more remote areas. By far, I would rank Shanghai safer than say, New York, LA, etc.
Now what I said applies to Shanghai only. It does not apply to other Chinese cities, where the cops and gangsters are probably one and the same. I wish Mr. Bitter the best of luck and hopefully he gets to experience the better side of Shanghai rather than this ugly side.
And yes, Mr. Bitter, you should report this to the police. Unlike the police in LA or New York, I guarantee you the Shanghai police will take this very seriously and they will try to stop it, because it is bad PR for Shanghai if it gets onto the news.
As a Shanghainese myself, gotta agree with this guy.
It depends on a matter of perspective. I think foreigners that don't speak Chinese are targets for stuff like this in Shanghai. If it was me, I just would have yelled at the guy 滾開! 我不知道你,你到底幹什麼來這裡? But, in Mr. Bitter's perspective, I can relate, as for the first few months I was in China, I could not speak Mandarin.
This is quite off-topic, but the first part should be 我不认识你
On November 17 2012 00:28 StarcraftMan wrote: Hi, as somebody who lived in Shanghai, I'm going to give a word of advice to foreigners who go there.
First and foremost, relative to the other Chinese cities in China, Shanghai is probably one of the most safest cities in China. However, there are a lot of migrant workers in Shanghai and more often than not, it's the migrant workers that cause problems because they may not be able to find a job in Shanghai so they resort to other things, and a minority of them may resort to illegal activities.
The reason why Shanghai is safer than other cities in China is because it is a model of development for China so the government usually cracks down harder on Shanghai (ie; there are very few brothels in Shanghai compared to other Chinese cities). On average, the police in Shanghai is also less corrupt than the police in other Chinese cities. However, there is corruption everywhere in China so don't think for a second that the Shanghai police is not corrupt.
Now this is common sense when travelling in a foreign country but unfortunately, Mr. Bitter had to experience this the hard way: when you are travelling in a foreign country, you must always be extra vigilant and more cautious than when you're at home. If you suspect something is not going right, be ready to exit the situation as quickly and as peacefully as possible without offending the people you are dealing with.. This applies everywhere you travel, especially in developing countries. If Mr. Bitter had followed this rule, he would have left the cab the moment the stranger got in the cab with him.
As for violence towards foreigners in China, rest assured, the penalty is 10x more severe for the local offender if he/she is caught. The Chinese government does not tolerate any violence against foreigners, especially in Shanghai, for good reason - the Chinese government wants to keep the news free of any incidents where a foreigner is harmed in Shanghai, which is supposed to be their model city. If Mr. Bitter was severely harmed, and being an American, it made the news in the US, it would really hurt Shanghai's reputation. For that reason, I highly doubt these thugs would have had the guts to kidnap Mr. Bitter either - they simply make the threat but there is no way they would go further with their threats.
Still, if you are outnumbered, it makes no sense to fight back, especially if they just want to rob you of a few thousand dollars. You could be severely hurt if they gang up on you and/or they have weapons and the few thousands dollars you lose would be chump change compared to permanent life long injuries (or even your own life).
Overall, I would say Shanghai is quite safe to travel to compared to cities in other developing countries provided you stay vigilant and cautious. Yes, there is an obscene amount of petty crime in Shanghai day in and day out - always watch your belongings and be careful of con artists. However, the severity of crime usually does not exceed the typical petty crime or con artist situation - it rarely, rarely, goes to violent crime. Contrary to what Mr. Bitter is saying, it is quite safe to travel alone in Shanghai - just be a bit cautious and careful in the more remote areas. By far, I would rank Shanghai safer than say, New York, LA, etc.
Now what I said applies to Shanghai only. It does not apply to other Chinese cities, where the cops and gangsters are probably one and the same. I wish Mr. Bitter the best of luck and hopefully he gets to experience the better side of Shanghai rather than this ugly side.
And yes, Mr. Bitter, you should report this to the police. Unlike the police in LA or New York, I guarantee you the Shanghai police will take this very seriously and they will try to stop it, because it is bad PR for Shanghai if it gets onto the news.
As a Shanghainese myself, gotta agree with this guy.
It depends on a matter of perspective. I think foreigners that don't speak Chinese are targets for stuff like this in Shanghai. If it was me, I just would have yelled at the guy 滾開! 我不知道你,你到底幹什麼來這裡? But, in Mr. Bitter's perspective, I can relate, as for the first few months I was in China, I could not speak Mandarin.
I think there are many beautiful places and nice people in China, but bigger cities like Shanghai and China are full of people that like to take advantage of what looks like your average laowai on a tour. But, assuming everything Mr Bitter said was true, this was a rather aggressive thing that the guy who took him to the "whorehouse" did.
Here's what I think went down.
Mr. Bitter went in to the bar, some random guy starts chit-chatting with him in English and discovers that bitter doesn't speak Chinese. This is what we'll call the "contact". The contact then relays the info to the escort, the guy who was in the taxi with the driver and Mr Bitter. The escort explains the situation to the taxi driver, and Bitter is powerless to communicate with the driver as he does not speak Chinese nor does the driver apparently speak English.
I've heard of stories where beautiful girls take advantage of foreigners like so. "Can you help us practice our English? We want to go to a teahouse nearby." "Sure, why not?"
They go to the teahouse and chit chat about whatever, then when they're finished (no matter how shabby or expensive the place looks), over the course of an hour and a few simple cups of what appears to be nothing more than simple or low-grade tea, the bill comes and it appears to be 4 or 5 thousand RMB. And the muscular guy at the door won't let you leave without paying.
I've even heard of foreigners having everything they owned in their apartments stolen from them (but to be quite frank, the foreigners I've heard of that had this happen to them really deserved it, in my opinion.)
What is all this talk of foreigners? We, the foreigners, are in every high-budget film that is produced in the People's Republic of China as villains (unless your name is Dashan or BenJieMing or Daniu). If you've seen Jet Li's Fearless (霍元甲), then you've seen the summary of just about every high-budget film that comes out every year in China.
I think it is much more simple than you think, the guy saw Bitter leaving got into his cab quickly and before bitter could say anything to the taxi driver the chinese guy told him that they are going to a club at such and such address and because bitter did not react like he was surprised or confused about this other guy in the taxi the driver just assumed they knew each other.
Agreed. It sounds logical and possible. The stuff with relay may take more time and coordination.
Shit man, crazy story. The bank should refund you that money. Good luck. Dont beat yourself up too much, it's hard to make good decisions when you are in messed up scenarios.
Are people seriously complaining about a thread being made about this? Wow... He's one of the big names in the SC2 community and he got freaking mugged while in China BECAUSE OF SC2. It's not like he went on vacation with his family and got mugged, he was out with another caster and is in China because of Starcraft. This definitely falls under valid thread material.
Anyway, sorry to hear about getting mugged. Going to MLG in Dallas taught me to never travel alone while out of town.
That sounds quite awful. But overall I would say you handled it pretty well. You never made it personal for the other guys in any way. It was only about the money for them, they had no interest in you as a person. If you had tried to fight them and maybe even ended up hurting some of them, then it would have become personal for them and who knows what could have happened then. Now you only lost some money and maybe your pride. Like you said, they were quite polite about it and you were never physically harmed. I think this is just because you had the sense of not motivating them to move it to the next level. Good job in a very unlucky situation.
On November 17 2012 00:28 StarcraftMan wrote: Hi, as somebody who lived in Shanghai, I'm going to give a word of advice to foreigners who go there.
First and foremost, relative to the other Chinese cities in China, Shanghai is probably one of the most safest cities in China. However, there are a lot of migrant workers in Shanghai and more often than not, it's the migrant workers that cause problems because they may not be able to find a job in Shanghai so they resort to other things, and a minority of them may resort to illegal activities.
The reason why Shanghai is safer than other cities in China is because it is a model of development for China so the government usually cracks down harder on Shanghai (ie; there are very few brothels in Shanghai compared to other Chinese cities). On average, the police in Shanghai is also less corrupt than the police in other Chinese cities. However, there is corruption everywhere in China so don't think for a second that the Shanghai police is not corrupt.
Now this is common sense when travelling in a foreign country but unfortunately, Mr. Bitter had to experience this the hard way: when you are travelling in a foreign country, you must always be extra vigilant and more cautious than when you're at home. If you suspect something is not going right, be ready to exit the situation as quickly and as peacefully as possible without offending the people you are dealing with.. This applies everywhere you travel, especially in developing countries. If Mr. Bitter had followed this rule, he would have left the cab the moment the stranger got in the cab with him.
As for violence towards foreigners in China, rest assured, the penalty is 10x more severe for the local offender if he/she is caught. The Chinese government does not tolerate any violence against foreigners, especially in Shanghai, for good reason - the Chinese government wants to keep the news free of any incidents where a foreigner is harmed in Shanghai, which is supposed to be their model city. If Mr. Bitter was severely harmed, and being an American, it made the news in the US, it would really hurt Shanghai's reputation. For that reason, I highly doubt these thugs would have had the guts to kidnap Mr. Bitter either - they simply make the threat but there is no way they would go further with their threats.
Still, if you are outnumbered, it makes no sense to fight back, especially if they just want to rob you of a few thousand dollars. You could be severely hurt if they gang up on you and/or they have weapons and the few thousands dollars you lose would be chump change compared to permanent life long injuries (or even your own life).
Overall, I would say Shanghai is quite safe to travel to compared to cities in other developing countries provided you stay vigilant and cautious. Yes, there is an obscene amount of petty crime in Shanghai day in and day out - always watch your belongings and be careful of con artists. However, the severity of crime usually does not exceed the typical petty crime or con artist situation - it rarely, rarely, goes to violent crime. Contrary to what Mr. Bitter is saying, it is quite safe to travel alone in Shanghai - just be a bit cautious and careful in the more remote areas. By far, I would rank Shanghai safer than say, New York, LA, etc.
Now what I said applies to Shanghai only. It does not apply to other Chinese cities, where the cops and gangsters are probably one and the same. I wish Mr. Bitter the best of luck and hopefully he gets to experience the better side of Shanghai rather than this ugly side.
And yes, Mr. Bitter, you should report this to the police. Unlike the police in LA or New York, I guarantee you the Shanghai police will take this very seriously and they will try to stop it, because it is bad PR for Shanghai if it gets onto the news.
As a Shanghainese myself, gotta agree with this guy.
It depends on a matter of perspective. I think foreigners that don't speak Chinese are targets for stuff like this in Shanghai. If it was me, I just would have yelled at the guy 滾開! 我不知道你,你到底幹什麼來這裡? But, in Mr. Bitter's perspective, I can relate, as for the first few months I was in China, I could not speak Mandarin.
I think there are many beautiful places and nice people in China, but bigger cities like Shanghai and China are full of people that like to take advantage of what looks like your average laowai on a tour. But, assuming everything Mr Bitter said was true, this was a rather aggressive thing that the guy who took him to the "whorehouse" did.
Here's what I think went down.
Mr. Bitter went in to the bar, some random guy starts chit-chatting with him in English and discovers that bitter doesn't speak Chinese. This is what we'll call the "contact". The contact then relays the info to the escort, the guy who was in the taxi with the driver and Mr Bitter. The escort explains the situation to the taxi driver, and Bitter is powerless to communicate with the driver as he does not speak Chinese nor does the driver apparently speak English.
I've heard of stories where beautiful girls take advantage of foreigners like so. "Can you help us practice our English? We want to go to a teahouse nearby." "Sure, why not?"
They go to the teahouse and chit chat about whatever, then when they're finished (no matter how shabby or expensive the place looks), over the course of an hour and a few simple cups of what appears to be nothing more than simple or low-grade tea, the bill comes and it appears to be 4 or 5 thousand RMB. And the muscular guy at the door won't let you leave without paying.
I've even heard of foreigners having everything they owned in their apartments stolen from them (but to be quite frank, the foreigners I've heard of that had this happen to them really deserved it, in my opinion.)
What is all this talk of foreigners? We, the foreigners, are in every high-budget film that is produced in the People's Republic of China as villains (unless your name is Dashan or BenJieMing or Daniu). If you've seen Jet Li's Fearless (霍元甲), then you've seen the summary of just about every high-budget film that comes out every year in China.
The tea house scam is pretty famous, I've read about that in the Lonely Planet! Anyway the rule is simple wherever you are, don't follow people you don't know in places you don't know either!
On November 16 2012 23:30 droken wrote: Bitter, I thought your parents told you never to get into cars with strangers
Yea man, it could have been the car from Mystic River.
Man, Clint Eastwood makes some depressing movies. His whole human triumph wins out in the end is kinda overshadowed by the crappy things that happen to his main characters. Million Dollar Baby, Gran Torino, Mystic River... et all.
On November 17 2012 01:21 Alpina wrote: Seriously Mrbitter? :o
I mean some random guy says come with me and you just go there knowing pretty much 100% that it won't end well?
I hope you was just too drunk to think, because if not then it's crazy..
This is just so typical. You knowing the whole story and how it ended is an entirely different thing from being there and living in that situation. Yes, it might have been a very wrong decision but in real life people usually do wrong decisions when they don't know the results in advance.
[very offtopic]This kind of reminds me of how me and my friend have been speculating many times about the difference between the human ability to really imagine thelmselves in a similar real pysical situation compared to just verbally taking in the position and the whole story afterwards and then verbally expressing what they would do in that position. The first part is so much more demanding and complex process compared to the latter that it might explain why people give so different replys as to what they "should do" in that situation compared to how they would really react in that situation.[/very offtopic]
Anytime you're in foreign countries (especially ones with people who are not white where you will stand out in the crowd, such as china) you always have to be on the look-out for this type of stuff.. There are always scammers like that trying to go after tourists and such.. They will purposely sit there and scan the streets looking for people getting into cabs by themselves in order to do this. China specifically is also a very bad place to be traveling alone in at that time of the night, to be honest.. Especially as an obvious tourist, that just makes you an even more likely target.
Personally, if it were me that happened to.. I would be going back to the same spot where I got into the cab (but a week later on the next friday/sat night), and this time looking on the street for the same guy who got into the cab with me. (He would most likely be there in the same spot waiting to scam someone alone). I would show up there and have a look around with a few buddies, find the guy, and "fix" him up a bit if you know what I mean.
On November 17 2012 03:21 Enzymatic wrote: Personally, if it were me that happened to.. I would be going back to the same spot where I got into the cab (but a week later on the next friday/sat night), and this time looking on the street for the same guy who got into the cab with me. (He would most likely be there in the same spot waiting to scam someone alone). And then I would find him and "fix" him up a bit (if you know what I mean).
You know that even tough he scammed you, if you attack him a week later you are in fault right? You have no authority whatsoever so if he beats you half dead it was basically self defense.
On November 17 2012 03:21 Enzymatic wrote: Personally, if I were you Mrbitter, I'd be going back to the same spot you got into the cab on another night (but next time with a few friends) and be looking for that same guy that got into the cab with you.. Find him on the streets (he's bound to be in the same spot trying to do the same thing to someone else).. And "fix" him up a bit if you know what I mean.
Hopefully you are just tough talking on the internet and not actually that stupid.
On November 17 2012 03:21 Enzymatic wrote: Personally, if I were you Mrbitter, I'd be going back to the same spot you got into the cab on another night (but next time with a few friends) and be looking for that same guy that got into the cab with you.. Find him on the streets (he's bound to be in the same spot trying to do the same thing to someone else).. And "fix" him up a bit if you know what I mean.
Hopefully you are just tough talking on the internet and not actually that stupid.
Not really, in all honesty that would probably be my reaction if I was the one that happened to. I have a pretty bad temper though with that kind of stuff and don't really take that. If that happened to me.. Damn right I'd be going back to where I got into the cab a week later.. With a few buddies of course, and looking for the same guy. Teach those crooks a lesson.
On November 17 2012 03:21 Enzymatic wrote: Personally, if I were you Mrbitter, I'd be going back to the same spot you got into the cab on another night (but next time with a few friends) and be looking for that same guy that got into the cab with you.. Find him on the streets (he's bound to be in the same spot trying to do the same thing to someone else).. And "fix" him up a bit if you know what I mean.
Hopefully you are just tough talking on the internet and not actually that stupid.
Not really, in all honesty that would probably be my reaction if I was the one that happened to. I have a pretty bad temper though with that kind of stuff and don't really take that. If that happened to me.. Damn right I'd be going back to where I got into the cab a week later.. With a few buddies of course, and looking for the same guy. Teach those crooks a lesson.
They know where his hotel is, they know his name, and obviously know enough people to have a cab driver or 2 to do some work for them. I doubt assaulting a low ranking scrub like the one that picked him up is a great idea considering they could be legitimately dangerous people. I'm all for getting even, but be realistic.
On the topic of MB himself; I'm glad he made it out all good. Rotti why no have spider sense ;_;
Man that sucks so bad... but incredibly lucky that Mrbitter did get into an even worst situation with the chinese police and with even more at stake (his life). I hope he recovers from the incident soon.
#9 "The second best option is flagging down a cab that’s driving by. If you get in a cab that’s just been sitting there “lying in wait,” you’re increasing the chances of getting yourself into trouble. "
Glad he is okay, money comes and goes but you only have 1 life.
Welcome to China... Extremely unfortunate, but the good news is he's still alive. I had a buddy that was mugged in Thai Land and stabbed several times. He almost didn't make it. It doesn't matter where you go you have to be careful and it's important to always do your research. China is actually well known for this type of bs. Especially, if you are foreigner.
Is this a common thing? Like does this happen in other countries as well? I'm going to sound incredibly ignorant since I don't travel outside the country that often but I don't think that I'm ever going to go to China because of this story haha. Is this just in the East? Or does this happen in Europe as well?
Glad to hear that you made it out safe and sound. Shame that this happens to folks.
On November 17 2012 05:56 peekn wrote: Is this a common thing? Like does this happen in other countries as well? I'm going to sound incredibly ignorant since I don't travel outside the country that often but I don't think that I'm ever going to go to China because of this story haha. Is this just in the East? Or does this happen in Europe as well?
Glad to hear that you made it out safe and sound. Shame that this happens to folks.
This kind of thing can happen in any country. Some more than others, but don't think the US is immune to it. Plenty of areas of the US are actually considerably more dangerous than most developed countries. What happened to Bitter isn't exactly typical. People travel to China all the time and get home safe with no bad experiences. Even Bitter himself has been there before and will probably end up going again. Just got to keep your wits about you when you are in an unfamiliar place, shit happens.
On November 17 2012 05:56 peekn wrote: Is this a common thing? Like does this happen in other countries as well? I'm going to sound incredibly ignorant since I don't travel outside the country that often but I don't think that I'm ever going to go to China because of this story haha. Is this just in the East? Or does this happen in Europe as well?
Glad to hear that you made it out safe and sound. Shame that this happens to folks.
This kind of thing can happen in any country. Some more than others, but don't think the US is immune to it. Plenty of areas of the US are actually considerably more dangerous than most developed countries. What happened to Bitter isn't exactly typical. People travel to China all the time and get home safe with no bad experiences. Even Bitter himself has been there before and will probably end up going again. Just got to keep your wits about you when you are in an unfamiliar place, shit happens.
I did some research on this, and read one of those articles about the most dangerous cities in the world and there were a couple of US cities on there... Safe to say that I don't live in any of them nor vacation there, which is most likely a cause of my ignorance on the subject.
On November 17 2012 05:56 peekn wrote: Is this a common thing? Like does this happen in other countries as well? I'm going to sound incredibly ignorant since I don't travel outside the country that often but I don't think that I'm ever going to go to China because of this story haha. Is this just in the East? Or does this happen in Europe as well?
Glad to hear that you made it out safe and sound. Shame that this happens to folks.
I've wandered around numerous areas of South Korea for over 4 years by myself during day/night and never had any incidents. Maybe because I'm black? I dunno... only thing I noticed was that some Korean women would move like 10 feet away from me when I walk down dark alleyways. hahaha same thing happens in the US. Some people are more scared that I'm going to mug them than vice versa *scratches head*
To try and lighten the mood: This thread reminds me of my ex GF. She tried to drain my debit card... Debit cards are a dangerous thing. Keep those things at home if you can.
On November 17 2012 05:56 peekn wrote: Is this a common thing? Like does this happen in other countries as well? I'm going to sound incredibly ignorant since I don't travel outside the country that often but I don't think that I'm ever going to go to China because of this story haha. Is this just in the East? Or does this happen in Europe as well?
Glad to hear that you made it out safe and sound. Shame that this happens to folks.
I've wandered around numerous areas of South Korea for over 4 years by myself during day/night and never had any incidents. Maybe because I'm black? I dunno... only thing I noticed was that some Korean women would move like 10 feet away from me when I walk down dark alleyways. hahaha same thing happens in the US. Some people are more scared that I'm going to mug them than vice versa *scratches head*
To try and lighten the mood: This thread reminds me of my ex GF. She tried to drain my debit card... Debit cards are a dangerous thing. Keep those things at home if you can.
Well, SK would probably be one of the few countries you could actually walk around at any time of the day without getting into serious trouble.
On November 17 2012 08:19 jalen wrote: I think he must be fraud, robbers carry POS machine? What a joke!
They didn't carry a POS machine with them. They took him to a brothel and charged him with the brothel POS. Therefore, it'll be hard to dispute the charges, cause they can just say he paid for sexy time with their girls.
hmm...well I think I learned a valuable lesson from this, and that's to limit my credit card withdrawal amounts, and to also walk around with only the cash I need. I'm glad Mr. Bitter shared his story, that's actually quite helpful. I don't want to make light of the situation, but knowing Mr. Bitter is okay it was actually quite an interesting read. I rarely get to read first hand accounts of mugging, especially not where you get driven to a shady brothel in China.
On November 16 2012 08:41 MrBitter wrote: Been sitting here f5ing this thread for the past like, 3 hours.
Appreciate all the comments and support, guys.
I will see about filing a police report today.
Not going to expect much, and honestly am just very glad to be safe back at the hotel.
Just make sure to follow up quickly with your original bank. Right now since you're safe and sound, you just want to prioritize minimizing your losses since with the proper steps you can get full reimbursement. Ask your bank for all documents to file a reimbursement claim and get documentation from the police that you have filed a report with local law enforcement. Make very sure that the police report copy contains details of all transaction amounts and times.
The police will do nothing but you still need the paper to work with your bank.
Use skype to call since all US 1800 numbers are free with an internet connection and hold times are going to be killer. Also, probably paranoid, but card scanners were quite frequent a few years back so in case they had your wallet in their possession, you might want to cancel all credit cards and file for replacements with new numbers. I assume you've already canceled the debit card in question.
First thing I did when I got back to the hotel was call my bank, so that process is already underway. Card is also cancelled.
On November 16 2012 08:49 WArped wrote: Title is slightly misleading, at least to me. Being mugged in the UK means a slightly different thing, this sounded a whole lot worse of a situation, but Bitter wasn't physically "mugged", thankfully. It sounds like Bitter made all the correct decisions in that situation. If you'd of stayed drinking a bit longer and left alone, you could of been a whole lot more out of it under the same sticky situation, and that would of been bad.
Yes, wasn't really mugged. I think fleeced might be a better term.
Kidnapped and extorted/held for ransom is more accurate.
I would have punched in the incorrect pin...they can't determine if was the wrong pin or limit? I know when i punch in the wrong pin, when im trying punch it in too quickly it basically says "declined"
Hope to hear about it on one of the four streams coming up in 5 minutes or so. One thing that will get action quickly on it is the possibility of a negative image being conveyed to potential tourists.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
its not uncommon for players to be put up in shitty parts of towns. Its not the first time a player/caster got mugged.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
its not uncommon for players to be put up in shitty parts of towns. Its not the first time a player/caster got mugged.
Yeah didn't Ret and some others get mugged in dallas last year at MLG? I think I read that somewhere.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
its not uncommon for players to be put up in shitty parts of towns. Its not the first time a player/caster got mugged.
i think complexity CS team got mugged when they went to ESL germany once
On November 17 2012 05:56 peekn wrote: Is this a common thing? Like does this happen in other countries as well? I'm going to sound incredibly ignorant since I don't travel outside the country that often but I don't think that I'm ever going to go to China because of this story haha. Is this just in the East? Or does this happen in Europe as well?
Glad to hear that you made it out safe and sound. Shame that this happens to folks.
I've wandered around numerous areas of South Korea for over 4 years by myself during day/night and never had any incidents. Maybe because I'm black? I dunno... only thing I noticed was that some Korean women would move like 10 feet away from me when I walk down dark alleyways. hahaha same thing happens in the US. Some people are more scared that I'm going to mug them than vice versa *scratches head*
To try and lighten the mood: This thread reminds me of my ex GF. She tried to drain my debit card... Debit cards are a dangerous thing. Keep those things at home if you can.
Well, SK would probably be one of the few countries you could actually walk around at any time of the day without getting into serious trouble.
I have been to China, including Beijing and Shanghai. I am a 191 cm caucasian guy with blonde hair and blue eyes (in fact I look so foreign to the Chinese that they usually videotape me) and I weigh 75kg, meaning I look like a weakling. I speak zero Chinese. I have all the makeups of an easy target yet I had zero problems when out there despite walking in some really shady neighborhoods (people shooting heroine in the open kind of places). My point is that whilst this is an incredibly unfortunate occurrence, there is no reason to blow it out of proportions either. You can travel around China fine without getting into problems.
And with that being said I would like to offer my condolences to Mr. Bitter and congratulate him on the very wise choice of coorperating. Being unharmed is well worth 1600 USD.
I've been there man - don't beat yourself up, happens to the best of us. You couldn't help it. Don't look for what you should have done, you end up blaming yourself, and after all, no one goes out of a night expecting gangsters. It wasn't your fault and you didn't do anything wrong.
Take a break for a while and treat yourself to good food and a back rub.
That is quite bad, worst you usually get from Taxi drivers (if it was an official taxi that is) in foreign countries is getting overcharged on fares or in some parts of Asia with tourist designated Taxi's (tuk tuks and such) that try to take you to different establishments for a bonus from the company.
Shanghai does have quite a history when it comes to Gangster activity. Really though I would just say its an unfortunate incident but do not be too alarmed. Having traveled myself quite extensively in some parts of Asia in countries with even shadier reputations such as Thailand and Cambodia I would have to say that overall I have mostly felt safe in Asia.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
its not uncommon for players to be put up in shitty parts of towns. Its not the first time a player/caster got mugged.
i think complexity CS team got mugged when they went to ESL germany once
yeah at gun point(or he had a gun in his waist band)
It's possible that MrBitter's bank will reimburse him for the fraud. They definitely would do that if his card were stolen and his signature were forged. I'm not sure how they treat situations where someone forces you to authenticate a transaction by entering your PIN number at gunpoint. I hope he will update the thread to let us know what happens.
Unfortunately foreigners stand out in china. Going home alone made him an extremely easy target, this would've happened in any large city with anyone that stood out as much as he did. Sorry for your loss, the only bad choice you made was going by yourself, the rest was your adrenaline.
You need to call the Chinese police. If you do not call the police, it will make the bank suspect that you were not really robbed, but just spent the money in a drunken binge at the whorehouse.
NOT CALLING THE POLICE IMMEDIATELY IS THE ONLY STUPID THING YOU HAVE DONE IN THIS MATTER.
On November 16 2012 07:22 ragz_gt wrote: Hey, glad you are OK and hopefully you get your money back, and then you'd just have a really kick arse story to tell!
From my experience and what I heard from friends Shanghai is pretty safe (though the bars, especially where foreigners tend to go, were packed with hookers), must be shitty luck.
.....Places like Shanghai and other foreigner hot spots are even more not safe and a perfect place for criminals over their to strike a foreigner target, It's China guys.
Lol okay....go back to the 1940s
I go to China often for work, I'm, not sure if you have a clue on how it works in Asia.
I know what you mean about scary foreign travel, I went to Florida once, fucking scary place. They were taking all the hire car logo's off and advising you to hide maps because of the armed car jackings they'd had that month....
On November 17 2012 12:02 Salient wrote: It's possible that MrBitter's bank will reimburse him for the fraud. They definitely would do that if his card were stolen and his signature were forged. I'm not sure how they treat situations where someone forces you to authenticate a transaction by entering your PIN number at gunpoint. I hope he will update the thread to let us know what happens.
usually banks are pretty friendly for stuff like this, something similar happened to my cousin in russia (he was held up near an atm machine) and they refunded the money even if it was a "loss" for the bank (though they likely have insurance).
In this case the cash transactions should still be reversible (not sure what bank he uses, but within 24 hours is the bare minimum i have heard about).
One thing i am very curious about is why he could draw over the 300 bucks limit.
On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote: OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate
I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart.
its not uncommon for players to be put up in shitty parts of towns. Its not the first time a player/caster got mugged.
i think complexity CS team got mugged when they went to ESL germany once
yeah at gun point(or he had a gun in his waist band)
But that was not the whole team if I remember it right, I think it was just Hostile walking back to the hotel alone at night from the club/bar/pub.
On November 17 2012 12:14 Salient wrote: MrBitter,
You need to call the Chinese police. If you do not call the police, it will make the bank suspect that you were not really robbed, but just spent the money in a drunken binge at the whorehouse.
NOT CALLING THE POLICE IMMEDIATELY IS THE ONLY STUPID THING YOU HAVE DONE IN THIS MATTER.
CALL THEM NOW!
50/50 on this. Depends how connected those gangsters are, might either get waived off (more likely the case once they find out how "high profile" Mr. Bitter is...and not worth the trouble) or get you in more trouble if you throw shit in the fan. Chinese police are not above corruption. While the sidewalk cop will help you out if you're lost or being mugged in high visibility area, remember these are gangsters well within the territories of pay-offs and "off limits orders" to low level cops.
On November 17 2012 00:28 StarcraftMan wrote: Hi, as somebody who lived in Shanghai, I'm going to give a word of advice to foreigners who go there.
First and foremost, relative to the other Chinese cities in China, Shanghai is probably one of the most safest cities in China. However, there are a lot of migrant workers in Shanghai and more often than not, it's the migrant workers that cause problems because they may not be able to find a job in Shanghai so they resort to other things, and a minority of them may resort to illegal activities.
The reason why Shanghai is safer than other cities in China is because it is a model of development for China so the government usually cracks down harder on Shanghai (ie; there are very few brothels in Shanghai compared to other Chinese cities). On average, the police in Shanghai is also less corrupt than the police in other Chinese cities. However, there is corruption everywhere in China so don't think for a second that the Shanghai police is not corrupt.
Now this is common sense when travelling in a foreign country but unfortunately, Mr. Bitter had to experience this the hard way: when you are travelling in a foreign country, you must always be extra vigilant and more cautious than when you're at home. If you suspect something is not going right, be ready to exit the situation as quickly and as peacefully as possible without offending the people you are dealing with.. This applies everywhere you travel, especially in developing countries. If Mr. Bitter had followed this rule, he would have left the cab the moment the stranger got in the cab with him.
As for violence towards foreigners in China, rest assured, the penalty is 10x more severe for the local offender if he/she is caught. The Chinese government does not tolerate any violence against foreigners, especially in Shanghai, for good reason - the Chinese government wants to keep the news free of any incidents where a foreigner is harmed in Shanghai, which is supposed to be their model city. If Mr. Bitter was severely harmed, and being an American, it made the news in the US, it would really hurt Shanghai's reputation. For that reason, I highly doubt these thugs would have had the guts to kidnap Mr. Bitter either - they simply make the threat but there is no way they would go further with their threats.
Still, if you are outnumbered, it makes no sense to fight back, especially if they just want to rob you of a few thousand dollars. You could be severely hurt if they gang up on you and/or they have weapons and the few thousands dollars you lose would be chump change compared to permanent life long injuries (or even your own life).
Overall, I would say Shanghai is quite safe to travel to compared to cities in other developing countries provided you stay vigilant and cautious. Yes, there is an obscene amount of petty crime in Shanghai day in and day out - always watch your belongings and be careful of con artists. However, the severity of crime usually does not exceed the typical petty crime or con artist situation - it rarely, rarely, goes to violent crime. Contrary to what Mr. Bitter is saying, it is quite safe to travel alone in Shanghai - just be a bit cautious and careful in the more remote areas. By far, I would rank Shanghai safer than say, New York, LA, etc.
Now what I said applies to Shanghai only. It does not apply to other Chinese cities, where the cops and gangsters are probably one and the same. I wish Mr. Bitter the best of luck and hopefully he gets to experience the better side of Shanghai rather than this ugly side.
And yes, Mr. Bitter, you should report this to the police. Unlike the police in LA or New York, I guarantee you the Shanghai police will take this very seriously and they will try to stop it, because it is bad PR for Shanghai if it gets onto the news.
As a Shanghainese myself, gotta agree with this guy.
It depends on a matter of perspective. I think foreigners that don't speak Chinese are targets for stuff like this in Shanghai. If it was me, I just would have yelled at the guy 滾開! 我不知道你,你到底幹什麼來這裡? But, in Mr. Bitter's perspective, I can relate, as for the first few months I was in China, I could not speak Mandarin.
This is quite off-topic, but the first part should be 我不认识你
Thanks, my Chinese is a little silly sometimes.
On November 17 2012 12:14 Salient wrote: MrBitter,
You need to call the Chinese police. If you do not call the police, it will make the bank suspect that you were not really robbed, but just spent the money in a drunken binge at the whorehouse.
NOT CALLING THE POLICE IMMEDIATELY IS THE ONLY STUPID THING YOU HAVE DONE IN THIS MATTER.
CALL THEM NOW!
You are so naive. I lived in China for a over a year. Assuming it was, in fact, a whore house, a brothel, that Mr Bitter was taken to, it would have been picked up on sooner by authorities. Prostitution is 100% illegal in the People's Republic of China. So why wasn't the whorehouse shut down?
The authorities were in on it. That is the only way that kind of place would still be up and running. Do you have any idea how much the average cop makes in China? You could slip him 100 USD to look the other way. The authorities get bribes from the guys who ran the whore house, trust me. Even the sale, redistrubition, or just the simple possession of any form of pornography in China can land you 1-3 years in prison. But interestingly enough, every DVD store in China sells it. Bitter said that there was porn all over the place where he was.
Calling the cops will do you jack shit in China. As said before, I knew two foreigners personally that had everything they owned stolen from them, their entire apartments cleaned out. When they called the cops, they did NOTHING.
If this were to happen in Taiwan or HK, on the other hand, it would be a completely different story.
As long as you're safe, look on the bright side - could have ended much worse.
A friend of a friend of a friend - went to a whore house once - when you walk in there is a coat rack by the door. Hanging on the rack was 2 military air force coats + a police coat.
On November 17 2012 05:56 peekn wrote: Is this a common thing? Like does this happen in other countries as well? I'm going to sound incredibly ignorant since I don't travel outside the country that often but I don't think that I'm ever going to go to China because of this story haha. Is this just in the East? Or does this happen in Europe as well?
Glad to hear that you made it out safe and sound. Shame that this happens to folks.
I've wandered around numerous areas of South Korea for over 4 years by myself during day/night and never had any incidents. Maybe because I'm black? I dunno... only thing I noticed was that some Korean women would move like 10 feet away from me when I walk down dark alleyways. hahaha same thing happens in the US. Some people are more scared that I'm going to mug them than vice versa *scratches head*
To try and lighten the mood: This thread reminds me of my ex GF. She tried to drain my debit card... Debit cards are a dangerous thing. Keep those things at home if you can.
SK is probably one of the safest places at night in the world, whatever your race. It was actually hard for me to get back a more suspicious mindset.
The women moving from you when you walk... well there aren't many black people in east Asia so you get a lot of racist views because people are ignorant.
On November 17 2012 05:56 peekn wrote: Is this a common thing? Like does this happen in other countries as well? I'm going to sound incredibly ignorant since I don't travel outside the country that often but I don't think that I'm ever going to go to China because of this story haha. Is this just in the East? Or does this happen in Europe as well?
Glad to hear that you made it out safe and sound. Shame that this happens to folks.
I've wandered around numerous areas of South Korea for over 4 years by myself during day/night and never had any incidents. Maybe because I'm black? I dunno... only thing I noticed was that some Korean women would move like 10 feet away from me when I walk down dark alleyways. hahaha same thing happens in the US. Some people are more scared that I'm going to mug them than vice versa *scratches head*
To try and lighten the mood: This thread reminds me of my ex GF. She tried to drain my debit card... Debit cards are a dangerous thing. Keep those things at home if you can.
SK is probably one of the safest places at night in the world, whatever your race. It was actually hard for me to get back a more suspicious mindset.
The women moving from you when you walk... well there aren't many black people in east Asia so you get a lot of racist views because people are ignorant.
This kind of stuff happens everywhere. I've lived in China and never had any kind of this stuff happen to me. But a friends father who was in Korea on business had everything he had stolen at the airport within hours of landing. Just unlucky I guess :/
On November 17 2012 15:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Has it been explained yet somewhere in this thread how they managed to exceed the debit withdraw limit?
They did not withdraw cash, they made a money transaction. The limit for both is different.
On November 17 2012 12:02 Salient wrote: It's possible that MrBitter's bank will reimburse him for the fraud. They definitely would do that if his card were stolen and his signature were forged. I'm not sure how they treat situations where someone forces you to authenticate a transaction by entering your PIN number at gunpoint. I hope he will update the thread to let us know what happens.
usually banks are pretty friendly for stuff like this, something similar happened to my cousin in russia (he was held up near an atm machine) and they refunded the money even if it was a "loss" for the bank (though they likely have insurance).
In this case the cash transactions should still be reversible (not sure what bank he uses, but within 24 hours is the bare minimum i have heard about).
One thing i am very curious about is why he could draw over the 300 bucks limit.
Banks have a wide array of amounts that you are allowed per day. Mine allows me to take out up to 1500 per day personally.
If bitter can prove somehow that he was forced to take the money out the bank will be more than willing to reimburse him just for the PR (whether he was a sc2 celebrity or not). They also have insurance for these kinds of things.
On November 17 2012 12:02 Salient wrote: It's possible that MrBitter's bank will reimburse him for the fraud. They definitely would do that if his card were stolen and his signature were forged. I'm not sure how they treat situations where someone forces you to authenticate a transaction by entering your PIN number at gunpoint. I hope he will update the thread to let us know what happens.
usually banks are pretty friendly for stuff like this, something similar happened to my cousin in russia (he was held up near an atm machine) and they refunded the money even if it was a "loss" for the bank (though they likely have insurance).
In this case the cash transactions should still be reversible (not sure what bank he uses, but within 24 hours is the bare minimum i have heard about).
One thing i am very curious about is why he could draw over the 300 bucks limit.
Banks have a wide array of amounts that you are allowed per day. Mine allows me to take out up to 1500 per day personally.
If bitter can prove somehow that he was forced to take the money out the bank will be more than willing to reimburse him just for the PR (whether he was a sc2 celebrity or not). They also have insurance for these kinds of things.
somebody already explained this... and Mr.Bitter explained it to the world unintentionally tonight when he thought his and rotti's mic's were off.
When he went to the atm he has a 300$ withdraw limit, so that he doesnt shit away money when he is drunk/gambling. However the guy was charging it as a purchase/transaction and not as a withdraw. Which is how they managed to keep getting more than his limit out of him.
This didn't really happen, did it? You followed some stranger into a dark alley, where you met a gangster surrounded by scary-looking henchmen? Then, not only did you not call the cops, you didn't call the US embassy, but instead decided to post a long essay about your story to the gullible people on Reddit. Why didn't you record the license plate of the taxi? All the shanghai taxis have ID tags in front of the side seat so you can identify them as well. Why did you not read any street signs to figure out where the hell you where? Every street sign in Shanghai has pinyin, regardless of how "ghetto" the area is. Smells like BS.
There is also the sheer ridiculousness of getting mugged by 80s-movies Chinese gangsters while being in one of the safest cities in one of the safest countries in the world, where crimes against Western foreigners are taken extremely seriously. My guess of the real story is that this guy blew $1600 on alcohol/prostitutes/whatever, and wants the bank to reimburse him for it now because of these mysterious "gangsters." It makes me sick that guys like this mrbitter fellow so willingly exploit the sympathies of others.
On November 17 2012 15:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Has it been explained yet somewhere in this thread how they managed to exceed the debit withdraw limit?
They did not withdraw cash, they made a money transaction. The limit for both is different.
Ah, a derp on my part, I see I see.
My parents got street robbed in France a while ago. Seems like a lot of travel stories are like that. Well, though they did get mugged, the kid was like 18 (and unarmed), so my dad grabbed him and threw him against a building and took back my mom's purse. The poor street bastard lol
So honestly you got hit by a regular scam in China, hotels and hostels have posters and papers plastered on the walls about the regular scams to watch out for. Good luck.
Man up. Stop being bitter and make sure you can handle yourself next time. Buy a gym card and take some lessons in how to kill people. However, this whole story reeks fraud. I'm pretty sure you can track where the payment came from ...
The amount of people telling him to man up and fight the thugs is just mind blowing. Good luck fighting them on your own.
If it were me, I'd dispose of my cards when I'm in the taxi. Then you can call and cancel the card later. I sympathize with Mr. Bitter though, it can be very hard to think straight in a situation like that.
On November 17 2012 18:02 TylerThaCreator wrote: lmao at the ridiculous amount of internet tough guys in this topic. I imagine 95% of you would have done the exact same as mrbitter.
no kidding. + 1 to this, anyone who doesn't feel sympathy for mrbitter's situation is just extremely jaded : /
On November 17 2012 18:00 AgniKai wrote: I just re-read it, and this is just pathetic, wow, how submissive can you be
I was going to make a post ridiculing you for your ridiculousness but then I realized that you're going to be stabbed to death by muggers in a foreign country some day because you thought you could fight off 4 of them with your bare hands.
On November 17 2012 18:02 TylerThaCreator wrote: lmao at the ridiculous amount of internet tough guys in this topic. I imagine 95% of you would have done the exact same as mrbitter.
no kidding. + 1 to this, anyone who doesn't feel sympathy for mrbitter's situation is just extremely jaded : /
Should take a trip to south america, you pull over to a location in a fake cab. Two guys come in and shoot you and just take your money.
But I'm sure this gaming website is just full of fully-trained navy seals who have 10+ years of indepth combat experiance and have been known to take on 3-4 armed assailiants at a time.
Pro-tip to everyone, no matter how tough you are do not fuck with people trying to rob you if they have weapons. There is no amount of money worth being killed over and it happens ALOT more than you think it does and you die a hell of alot easier than the people in the movies do.
I'm a decent size guy (186cm 92kg), spend 5 hours a week doing a couple of martial arts. And if in a foreign country I was in a room with 4 guys around me, I give my wallet and PIN faster than you can say "plsdntkillme". You don't know if they are armed, you don't know the self defence laws, if the people have police contacts or even how to get to the hotel from there. You remember you have travel insurance/fraud protection on your credit cards and do what you need to to get out in tact. Hell 4 clearly unarmed guys rob me anywhere I hand over my money. Doing drills where you fight against 2 people you don't succeed half the time. With 4 people, you will end up on the ground having your head stomped unless you are in a situation with lots of room to get away. Unless of course you are an internet tough guy, in which case please withdraw your savings, stickytape it all to the outside of your body, and head to the worst part of your nearest capital and walk around at night till you get in a situation where 4 people try and rob you. Defend yourself and post the video ASAP.
MrBitter got out alive from a bad situation. Maybe he could of gotten out with his money too? Maybe he could of died or at least been very severely injured/chronic pain. Now sure he made mistakes which he acknowledges, but handing over the money wasn't one of them.
i don't understand, so you were getting in a taxi, and a complete random chinese stranger came in, and said something in chinese (not understanding what he's saying) and let the taxi actually start moving? i find this very hard to believe, especially in the nice areas of shanghai. maybe some kind of normal scam, but not this lol...
On November 17 2012 17:50 TheSwedishFan wrote: Man up. Stop being bitter and make sure you can handle yourself next time. Buy a gym card and take some lessons in how to kill people. However, this whole story reeks fraud. I'm pretty sure you can track where the payment came from ...
Yeah how can you do nothing 1v4 against people when you don't even know if they're armed, it's not a fucking movie bro.
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
You have no idea, you really have no clue how stressful these things can be. Ever heard of post traumatic stress? Being mugged in a a strange country by four gangsters is seriously seriously hard on the psyche, without a load of pathetic tossers pretending they would have done better. Bull.
You guys should be ashamed of yourselves, it's disgusting.
Bitter, mad props for keeping cool and getting out without a scratch. You deserve every iota of support.
On November 17 2012 17:05 iamho wrote: This didn't really happen, did it? You followed some stranger into a dark alley, where you met a gangster surrounded by scary-looking henchmen? Then, not only did you not call the cops, you didn't call the US embassy, but instead decided to post a long essay about your story to the gullible people on Reddit. Why didn't you record the license plate of the taxi? All the shanghai taxis have ID tags in front of the side seat so you can identify them as well. Why did you not read any street signs to figure out where the hell you where? Every street sign in Shanghai has pinyin, regardless of how "ghetto" the area is. Smells like BS.
There is also the sheer ridiculousness of getting mugged by 80s-movies Chinese gangsters while being in one of the safest cities in one of the safest countries in the world, where crimes against Western foreigners are taken extremely seriously. My guess of the real story is that this guy blew $1600 on alcohol/prostitutes/whatever, and wants the bank to reimburse him for it now because of these mysterious "gangsters." It makes me sick that guys like this mrbitter fellow so willingly exploit the sympathies of others.
You can't really fill in infomation and then judge people based on your own made up story, lol.
Why is everyone assuming that the Chinese authorities are so corrupt or useless that it isn't worth reporting the crime? Why not give them a little respect by at least giving them the chance to help. I'm very suspicious of Mrbitter's story. He makes a Reddit thread instead of going to the police. The bank will investigate his fraud claim. I hope he told them the truth. Bank fraud is a felony.
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
I didn't put any blame on bitter, except for not contacting the police. Do you think the banks are gonna believe his claims of being robbed when there isn't even a police reported filed? Its suspicious and silly. The fact that he would post a thread about it and not even contact law enforcement is retarded. First you go to the police and then you go to the banks.
On November 17 2012 23:51 Salient wrote: Why is everyone assuming that the Chinese authorities are so corrupt or useless that it isn't worth reporting the crime? Why not give them a little respect by at least giving them the chance to help. I'm very suspicious of Mrbitter's story. He makes a Reddit thread instead of going to the police. The bank will investigate his fraud claim. I hope he told them the truth. Bank fraud is a felony.
They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly.
People will go to great mental acrobatics to avoid pondering things uncomfortable for them.
On November 18 2012 00:03 ReachTheSky wrote: I didn't put any blame on bitter, except for not contacting the police. Do you think the banks are gonna believe his claims of being robbed when there isn't even a police reported filed? Its suspicious and silly. The fact that he would post a thread about it and not even contact law enforcement is retarded. First you go to the police and then you go to the banks.
No, you call the bank and ask for their advice. If they tell you to report to the police, you do that. And hell, how do you even know he hasn't contacted the police since then?
I thought its pretty clear the sole reason he posted a thread was to ask for moral support.
Calling someone who's robbed and panicking "retarded" is kinda uncool in my opinion.
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
On November 18 2012 00:03 ReachTheSky wrote: I didn't put any blame on bitter, except for not contacting the police. Do you think the banks are gonna believe his claims of being robbed when there isn't even a police reported filed? Its suspicious and silly. The fact that he would post a thread about it and not even contact law enforcement is retarded. First you go to the police and then you go to the banks.
No, you call the bank and ask for their advice. If they tell you to report to the police, you do that. And hell, how do you even know he hasn't contacted the police since then?
I thought its pretty clear the sole reason he posted a thread was to ask for moral support.
Calling someone who's robbed and panicking "retarded" is kinda uncool in my opinion.
Is that how things work in your country?
Where I am from, criminal investigations are led by police. You don't need to first contact bankers to get referred to police at the bank's discretion.
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
Its actually kinda cute how hard you're trying to paint him in such a bad light lol. Keep trying. Just ask yourself, really, what would YOU do in this situation.
And yeah, in my country the police are generally slow and useless unless properly motivated with the right channel (bribes).
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
Its actually kinda cute how hard you're trying to paint him in such a bad light lol. Keep trying. Just ask yourself, really, what would YOU do in this situation.
And yeah, in my country the police are generally slow and useless unless properly motivated with the right channel (bribes).
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
On November 17 2012 17:05 iamho wrote: This didn't really happen, did it? You followed some stranger into a dark alley, where you met a gangster surrounded by scary-looking henchmen? Then, not only did you not call the cops, you didn't call the US embassy, but instead decided to post a long essay about your story to the gullible people on Reddit. Why didn't you record the license plate of the taxi? All the shanghai taxis have ID tags in front of the side seat so you can identify them as well. Why did you not read any street signs to figure out where the hell you where? Every street sign in Shanghai has pinyin, regardless of how "ghetto" the area is. Smells like BS.
There is also the sheer ridiculousness of getting mugged by 80s-movies Chinese gangsters while being in one of the safest cities in one of the safest countries in the world, where crimes against Western foreigners are taken extremely seriously. My guess of the real story is that this guy blew $1600 on alcohol/prostitutes/whatever, and wants the bank to reimburse him for it now because of these mysterious "gangsters." It makes me sick that guys like this mrbitter fellow so willingly exploit the sympathies of others.
Probably this. I doubt any reasonable person would let a stranger just come into his taxi and i also doubt anyone would not go and tell the police. Even if they are corrupt, it doesn't hurt to try.
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
If I'm robbed, my concerns are prioritized as followed: 1.) Ensure that I'm safe. 2.) Get my money back. 3.) Ensure that the thieves aren't going to hurt me again before I go back home. 4.) Make sure they're arrested.
All I'm saying is that I would have gone to the bank first because I sure as hell don't want to owe them money! And I firmly believe that a bank has more knowledge in dealing with foreign police forces and cases like this than I do!!
The other thing I tried pointing out is that Mr. Bitter gained NOTHING from posting this on TL and Reddit. The only gain he could by posting is getting our support. That's why I don't believe he is lying.
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
If I'm robbed, my concerns are prioritized as followed: 1.) Ensure that I'm safe. 2.) Get my money back. 3.) Ensure that the thieves aren't going to hurt me again before I go back home. 4.) Make sure they're arrested.
All I'm saying is that I would have gone to the bank first because I sure as hell don't want to owe them money! And I firmly believe that a bank has more knowledge in dealing with foreign police forces and cases like this than I do!!
How does not contacting police help ensure that you're safe? How does not contacting police help you get your money back? How does not contacting police help you get home without being hurt? How does not contacting police get them arrested?
None of your priorities are helped by not contacting police. Indeed, your bank will probably suspect you of fraud when they see there is no police report yet you claim to be the victim of a crime. Avoiding police harms, not helps, your chances of reimbursement.
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was."
He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful?
Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense?
The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you.
In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly?
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
If I'm robbed, my concerns are prioritized as followed: 1.) Ensure that I'm safe. 2.) Get my money back. 3.) Ensure that the thieves aren't going to hurt me again before I go back home. 4.) Make sure they're arrested.
All I'm saying is that I would have gone to the bank first because I sure as hell don't want to owe them money! And I firmly believe that a bank has more knowledge in dealing with foreign police forces and cases like this than I do!!
How does not contacting police help ensure that you're safe? How does not contacting police help you get your money back? How does not contacting police help you get home without being hurt? How does not contacting police get them arrested?
None of your priorities are helped by not contacting police. Indeed, your bank will probably suspect you of fraud when they see there is no police report yet you claim to be the victim of a crime. Avoiding police harms, not helps, your chances of reimbursement.
*Sigh*........... Again, I'm not AGAINST contacting the police. I'm arguing that I would have contacted the bank FIRST. The bank WILL contact the police in their investigation. The thieves WILL be investigated.
You're trying to convince me because Mr. Bitter didn't go to the police FIRST, he's suspicious. I'm arguing that going to the bank FIRST is rational, thus he's not suspicious.
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
would someone really do that? go online just to tell lies?
Well, good luck to Mrbitters. His story is very suspicious though. If he's lucky, the bank will just deny his claim.
However, it is entirely possible that they will refer it to FBI, which will contact the Chinese police -- who will look into the story more closely by going to the physical address associated with the point of sale. Believe it or not, they may spend a few hours on a kidnapping/robbery or possible bank fraud case.
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit.
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was."
He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful?
Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense?
The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you.
In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly?
He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for.
And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China.
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
Haha, just wow, how do you even come up with this? You should write novels or something, man I love the internet and you just made my day .
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit.
Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police?
I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up.
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
It's obvious to me as well. The first one is a realistic scenario that I personally have witnessed before in Beijing and Shanghai.
The second reads like a fanfiction with no facts whatsoever. Come on, you're arguing that he's trying to lend credibility to a story by posting on a message board with the only source as HIMSELF?
i see some theories of what really happened mr.bitter. i don't especially like your game knowledge and long-hour casts, but i am giving you the benefit of the doubt, and truly believe you're a good person.
that said, i'd like it to be that all the hope we have for you to have better luck from here contributes in some way. i personally learned a valuable lesson from your experience and will feel a lot more calm if i were ever to be in a similar situation.
looking forward to your casts with everyone else! <3
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
You can't be serious... the need for witchhunts in this community keeps dazzling me.
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
You can't be serious... the need for witchhunts in this community keeps dazzling me.
The guy's a troll. ALL of his posts ever are all in this thread, people should just stop feeding him.
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was."
He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful?
Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense?
The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you.
In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly?
He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for.
And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China.
Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you.
You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police.
And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police?
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit.
Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police?
I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up.
No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before.
It is standard practice for U.S. citizens who are victims of crime in a foreign country to contact the local embassy or consulate for assistance. Here's a link to the consulate in Shanghai: http://shenyang.usembassy-china.org.cn/
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was."
He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful?
Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense?
The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you.
In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly?
He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for.
And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China.
Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you.
You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police.
And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police?
On November 18 2012 00:07 gyurktle wrote: They are trying to rationalize why he wouldn't tell police without admitting that it very suspiciously looks like Mr. Bitter got drunk and spent the money willingly..
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit.
Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police?
I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up.
No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before.
You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh.
You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be "don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour.
On November 18 2012 01:05 LJ wrote: No crime was commited here, they asked for money for being at the guys club and he gave it them, at least he got a good story to tell
Yeah, that's usually how the scam operates. I've heard of a case where the gangs take the tourists to a local restaurant, and the service charge is about 30000%, and that detail was written in Chinese in the menu. They then block the exit to the restaurant until you pay up. This scam is good because it works with large group of people too lol.
On November 18 2012 01:05 LJ wrote: No crime was commited here, they asked for money for being at the guys club and he gave it them, at least he got a good story to tell
Yeah, that's usually how the scam operates. I've heard of a case where the gangs take the tourists to a local restaurant, and the service charge is about 30000%, and that detail was written in Chinese in the menu. They then block the exit to the restaurant until you pay up. This scam is good because it works with large group of people too lol.
So you're suggesting Mr Bitter did indeed partake of the services at the brothel, but their prices were more than anticipated?
On November 18 2012 01:05 LJ wrote: No crime was commited here, they asked for money for being at the guys club and he gave it them, at least he got a good story to tell
Yeah, thats propably actually legal. He also "could" have left the cab, so even if they find this guys they will simply claim they forced him to nothing.
Just in case MrBitter reads this or someone can get it to him:
It is standard practice for U.S. citizens who are victims of crime in a foreign country to contact the local embassy or consulate for assistance. Here's a link to the consulate in Shanghai: http://shenyang.usembassy-china.org.cn/
On November 18 2012 01:05 LJ wrote: No crime was commited here, they asked for money for being at the guys club and he gave it them, at least he got a good story to tell
Yeah, that's usually how the scam operates. I've heard of a case where the gangs take the tourists to a local restaurant, and the service charge is about 30000%, and that detail was written in Chinese in the menu. They then block the exit to the restaurant until you pay up. This scam is good because it works with large group of people too lol.
So you're suggesting Mr Bitter did indeed partake of the services at the brothel, but their prices were more than anticipated?
Where did I ever suggest that lol. You're just embarrassing yourself now Mr. Troll.
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was."
He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful?
Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense?
The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you.
In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly?
He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for.
And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China.
Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you.
You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police.
And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police?
On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:22 ramask2 wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:19 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:12 ramask2 wrote: [quote]
So you are saying Mr. Bitter is trying to fool the bank by posting his lies on Reddit and teamliquid.....? Why would he do that?
If I'm doing something that shameful I'll be sure to keep it to myself.
Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit.
Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police?
I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up.
No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before.
You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh.
You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be "don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour.
You seem to have comprehension issues. As another user said, and as my original post stated, we find nothing odd about him calling the bank first. We are not advocating that he does not call the police ever. And what you call "trying to make it sound futile" is what would happen.
You call your bank - tell them to stop the transactions and escalate it to theft. Then you ask for advice and help. The bank will most surely tell you to visit the police and report the incident, and then they will take over. You can keep contact with your bank and the progress. Can you do that with a foreign police station, even after you leave the country?
To be clear once again, as you just do not get it - we are saying he isn't wrong to contact the bank first.
On November 17 2012 22:44 ReachTheSky wrote: I find it interesting that he contacted his banks but not the police.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was."
He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful?
Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense?
The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you.
In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly?
He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for.
And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China.
Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you.
You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police.
And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police?
On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:22 ramask2 wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:19 gyurktle wrote: [quote] Most likely he would be trying to fool his peers by posting on teamliquid and reddit. I doubt his bank is reading his posts.
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit.
Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police?
I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up.
No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before.
You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh.
You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be "don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour.
You seem to have comprehension issues. As another user said, and as my original post stated, we find nothing odd about him calling the bank first. We are not advocating that he does not call the police ever. And what you call "trying to make it sound futile" is what would happen.
You call your bank - tell them to stop the transactions and escalate it to theft. Then you ask for advice and help. The bank will most surely tell you to visit the police and report the incident, and then they will take over. You can keep contact with your bank and the progress. Can you do that with a foreign police station, even after you leave the country?
To be clear once again, as you just do not get it - we are saying he isn't wrong to contact the bank first.
He didn't contact them first, he contacted them exclusively.
Let's be clear here. We are talking about contacting police--and the lack of such action on the part of Mr Bitter. You keep bringing up the bank, but what is the relevance? Are bankers substitute policemen? Do they handle criminal investigations?
If you are the victim of a crime, you need to report it to police. It is especially urgent to contact them while your memory is still fresh.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was."
He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful?
Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense?
The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you.
In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly?
He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for.
And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China.
Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you.
You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police.
And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police?
On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:22 ramask2 wrote: [quote]
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit.
Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police?
I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up.
No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before.
You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh.
You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be "don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour.
You seem to have comprehension issues. As another user said, and as my original post stated, we find nothing odd about him calling the bank first. We are not advocating that he does not call the police ever. And what you call "trying to make it sound futile" is what would happen.
You call your bank - tell them to stop the transactions and escalate it to theft. Then you ask for advice and help. The bank will most surely tell you to visit the police and report the incident, and then they will take over. You can keep contact with your bank and the progress. Can you do that with a foreign police station, even after you leave the country?
To be clear once again, as you just do not get it - we are saying he isn't wrong to contact the bank first.
He didn't contact them first, he contacted them exclusively.
Let's be clear here. We are talking about contacting police--and the lack of such action on the part of Mr Bitter. You keep bringing up the bank, but what is the relevance? Are bankers substitute policemen? Do they handle criminal investigations?
If you are the victim of a crime, you need to report it to police. It is especially urgent to contact them while your memory is still fresh.
The bank has your money and the resources to do something productive. To be honest, if this had happened to me in China, my bank and my nations consulate would be the first addresses. With their backing i would then inform local law enforcement.
He is trying to tell the bank that he wasn't the one who has withdrawn the money. His problem wasn't that he's robbed, its that he now owes a lot of money to the bank. He MUST convince them that he was robbed. What happened to the thief are secondary.
All the police can do is arrest the thugs (which they most likely can't) and even then they won't find the money. Talking to a foreign police force probably wasn't a attractive prospect either. The bank can do that FOR him in their investigation.
Its ridiculous how some people are somehow putting the blame on Mr. Bitter.
So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was."
He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful?
Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense?
The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you.
In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly?
He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for.
And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China.
Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you.
You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police.
And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police?
On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:22 ramask2 wrote: [quote]
WTF Why would he need to fool any of his peers when he's just trying to get money back.....??
Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit.
Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police?
I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up.
No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before.
You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh.
You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be "don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour.
You seem to have comprehension issues. As another user said, and as my original post stated, we find nothing odd about him calling the bank first. We are not advocating that he does not call the police ever. And what you call "trying to make it sound futile" is what would happen.
You call your bank - tell them to stop the transactions and escalate it to theft. Then you ask for advice and help. The bank will most surely tell you to visit the police and report the incident, and then they will take over. You can keep contact with your bank and the progress. Can you do that with a foreign police station, even after you leave the country?
To be clear once again, as you just do not get it - we are saying he isn't wrong to contact the bank first.
He didn't contact them first, he contacted them exclusively.
Let's be clear here. We are talking about contacting police--and the lack of such action on the part of Mr Bitter. You keep bringing up the bank, but what is the relevance? Are bankers substitute policemen? Do they handle criminal investigations?
If you are the victim of a crime, you need to report it to police. It is especially urgent to contact them while your memory is still fresh.
The exclusive reporting you speak of is from the end of his story. Yet you pass judgement without considering if he has reported to the police after or not. I bring up the bank because the money was lost through credit card swipes - something the bank can stop. With the bank informed, they would most likely advise Bitters to report the incident. I am more than willing to wait and see the result of the bank investigation than to imply Bitters callously wasted money and now is comitting bank fraud.
yes, its weird if he never contacted authorities and only the bank, and some of us who been in that situation were traumatized or whatever excuses you all come, and still called up the police
none of us ever will know but the people involved in this situation
mrbitter did not initially blow the whistle publically it was someone else, for those of you saying if he did unwisely spend his money why would he post about it
surprised after reading guys like rets blog why English teachers and non-attached gamers love it in Asia so much that you would totally dismiss the idea.
mrbitter is married so this is another reason why this thread should be closed if anything did happen he will its have to live with it like the majority of marriages in America and that's none of our business.
we will never know for sure so would be nice to close the thread.
On November 18 2012 00:10 gyurktle wrote: [quote] So there are (supposedly) dangerous thugs on the loose who are kidnapping tourists and it is of no concern to get them arrested?
What about their future victims?
It seems this story isn't entirely true when you consider nobody cares enough to alert authorities. Only contacting the bank and asking for money? Really? Seems like the first priority should be protecting the public from such dangerous gangsters... if they exist.
I think you've completely misread what he wrote. He wrote that the bank puts the onus of proof of theft on Bitters. Until Bitters can prove to the bank that he was a victim of theft, the bank won't care about the thieves.
Then he wrote that while going to the police directly may get the thieves arrested, it won't get the bank off his back necessarily. So what Bitters is doing is letting the bank take charge of the situation - as the bank has more resources to get police involvement. In addition, the bank has the card charge data and can coordinate with local authorities to investigate.
To me, Bitters should have asked his hotel for the cops once he was free and then call the bank after. However, calling the bank first to ask for next steps is not bad either. The bank would usually advise you to make a police report anyways.
I read and understood very clearly what he wrote.
He wrote that not contacting police is reasonable, because "all the police can do is arrest the thugs".
That is absurd. Arresting dangerous gansters who are kidnapping tourists is of utmost importance.
The problem with trying to rationalize Mr Bitters behaviour as you are doing is that if you accept his story as true his behaviour is very irrational. This causes people to say silly things, like "all the police can do is arrest the thugs". That is like saying: "all a doctor can do is cure your illness". There is nothing rational about not contacting police in this case... unless he is lying. Then it makes sense.
To put into perspective - Bitters said "I haven't contacted the cops yet because I don't know what to tell them. I don't even know where I was."
He has no information of use besides memory of some faces. He would be going into a chinese police station and telling them he was kidnapped, robbed, dropped off at his hotel - and he can't give any info. Do you believe the police will find his story very useful?
Instead he calls his bank. He tells the bank the previous transactions were thefts. They don't look normal - who spends large sums of exact figures like that? 5000rmb? Twice? Then an attempt at 10000rmb? Large round figures - if he was spending on stuff, do you think that makes sense?
The bank has the transaction logs. They have the credit card swipe ID. Even if it's falsified - they are in a better position to give the police actual information. And they are the ones to forgive Bitters the $1600 bucks. I fail to see why this does not seem intelligent and logical to you.
In addition - there is nothing that says Bitters has not gone to the police since this story. Again - he stated at the end that he didnt go "yet" because he was unsure of what to do. Why do you harp on him not going at that time so strictly?
He tells them he was kidnapped and robbed. Nobody expects you to solve the crime before you report it. That is what detectives are for.
And police can go get records from a bank. Why do you think banks need to lead the investigation? Criminal investigations are typically handled by law enforcement. I believe the same is true for China.
Go to China. Find a police station. Speak in english. Tell them you got kidnapped and robbed. Tell them you don't know who, you don't know where. Hope they have someone fluent enough in english on staff to tell their supervisors that this foreigner came in with no info. Let me know how well that goes with you.
You let the bank lead because they have more resources than you. They can access their files and give to the police directly, because they already have your approval. They can force the police to do the work. You can't, they are not your police, and regardless of your fantasies that the police has the obligation - you have no information of use to the police.
And again - how do you know for sure that he has not yet to seen the police?
On November 18 2012 00:58 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:53 JinDesu wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:50 gyurktle wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:36 ramask2 wrote:
On November 18 2012 00:32 gyurktle wrote: [quote] Maybe they don't approve of bank fraud.
You're saying that he's essentially trying to rob a bank, and then telling clues about it to both his peers and the world? Hardly a rational behavior, right?
Fraud and robbery are different.
There are two potential options here. Either he is telling the truth, or he is not. Right?
So let's examine both options.
He is telling the truth: - He was kidnapped and robbed by a gang which uses physical force and threats - The gang preys on tourists - He didn't report this to police ... because ... ???
He is making it up: - He spent money he regrets, possibly on prostitutes - His peers wonder where he had been - He makes up a story about robbery and kidnapping, deflecting embarassment over his drunken antics and potentially giving him an avenue for getting back the money he regrets spending - Posts it on the internet to try and lend it more credibility and because his peers will spread it around anyways
Which makes more sense? To me it seems obvious. There's no logical explanation for police avoidance unless his story isn't entirely true.
Bank fraud - especially if you are spending on prostitutes with a debit card - is not that easy to commit.
Yes, because the bank will say exactly what I have said. Why didn't he report it to the police?
I doubt he will be sucessful. Hopefully for him it doesn't blow up.
No - the bank will tell him to report to the police. They don't ask why. They aren't concerned with why - they want to make sure the client was robbed and is taken care of, or charge the client for wasting their time with fraud. I don't think you've dealt with a bank on such a subject before.
You can give them descriptions of suspects and locations. This is especially important to do while the memory is still fresh.
You make it sound like it is futile, but he didn't even try. This is post hoc rationalization on your part. If someone you know contacted you and was the victim of a crime, would your advice be "don't tell the police"? It is only because Mr Bitter didn't go to police you are now in the position of trying to rationalize such behaviour.
You seem to have comprehension issues. As another user said, and as my original post stated, we find nothing odd about him calling the bank first. We are not advocating that he does not call the police ever. And what you call "trying to make it sound futile" is what would happen.
You call your bank - tell them to stop the transactions and escalate it to theft. Then you ask for advice and help. The bank will most surely tell you to visit the police and report the incident, and then they will take over. You can keep contact with your bank and the progress. Can you do that with a foreign police station, even after you leave the country?
To be clear once again, as you just do not get it - we are saying he isn't wrong to contact the bank first.
He didn't contact them first, he contacted them exclusively.
Let's be clear here. We are talking about contacting police--and the lack of such action on the part of Mr Bitter. You keep bringing up the bank, but what is the relevance? Are bankers substitute policemen? Do they handle criminal investigations?
If you are the victim of a crime, you need to report it to police. It is especially urgent to contact them while your memory is still fresh.
The exclusive reporting you speak of is from the end of his story. Yet you pass judgement without considering if he has reported to the police after or not. I bring up the bank because the money was lost through credit card swipes - something the bank can stop. With the bank informed, they would most likely advise Bitters to report the incident. I am more than willing to wait and see the result of the bank investigation than to imply Bitters callously wasted money and now is comitting bank fraud.
His excuse for not contacting police doesn't ring true. He claims he doesn't know what to tell them.
When you are a victim of a crime, what you tell police is: a) that you were the victim of the crime b) what you saw and heard
It's really that simple. Why do you have to think about what to tell them unless you are fabricating an invented story? People who were truly the victims of crime don't have to use their imagination, they can just say what happened.
Those people giving Mr.Bitters grief should be ashamed of themselves. So the guy gets kidnapped, robbed and was scared silly... and you guys want to criticize how he handled it?
How about you offer Mr.Bitters your sympathy for the situation he found himself in, and admit that you don't have information or perspective sufficient to be critical of what happened. Yes, undoubtedly there were superior decisions he could have made... but he's human guys. I hope none of you critics have ever made an error that was obvious in hindsight, because you'd be a pretty big hypocrite to criticize Mr.Bitters for it.
For all those people who critize Mrbitter and explaining random scenarios and/or stating complete bollocks:
Next time you are abroad. Having fun. You are in a club or a bar or anywhere random. Just think about it for one second: If someone attacks me, rob me, or kidnap me how would I feel? Have a pleasant holiday.
On November 18 2012 01:46 minimalistic wrote: For all those people who critize Mrbitter and explaining random scenarios and/or stating complete bollocks:
Next time you are abroad. Having fun. You are in a club or a bar or anywhere random. Just think about it for one second: If someone attacks me, rob me, or kidnap me how would I feel? Have a pleasant holiday.
ezz wholes
Next time you are on a drunken binge and spend $2000 on prostitutes, just think about it for one second:
What would you do to hide the true nature of those charges from your wife?
so did anyone else forget about how ToD apparently got "so fucked up" that all he knew was his name was ToD when he woke up at a random place in china? or are we going to completely forget about that just like how stephano beat a 14 year old in sc2
On November 18 2012 01:46 minimalistic wrote: For all those people who critize Mrbitter and explaining random scenarios and/or stating complete bollocks:
Next time you are abroad. Having fun. You are in a club or a bar or anywhere random. Just think about it for one second: If someone attacks me, rob me, or kidnap me how would I feel? Have a pleasant holiday.
ezz wholes
Next time you are on a drunken binge and spend $2000 on prostitutes, just think about it for one second:
What would you do to hide the true nature of those charges from your wife?
dude.... It never stops to amaze me how fucked up in the head some people are. well done sir, well done.
On November 18 2012 01:46 minimalistic wrote: For all those people who critize Mrbitter and explaining random scenarios and/or stating complete bollocks:
Next time you are abroad. Having fun. You are in a club or a bar or anywhere random. Just think about it for one second: If someone attacks me, rob me, or kidnap me how would I feel? Have a pleasant holiday.
ezz wholes
Next time you are on a drunken binge and spend $2000 on prostitutes, just think about it for one second:
What would you do to hide the true nature of those charges from your wife?
dude.... It never stops to amaze me how fucked up in the head some people are. well done sir, well done.
People sure can hurl vague insults, but nobody as yet can explain why Mr Bitter would avoid police if his story were true.
On November 18 2012 01:53 kolofome wrote: so did anyone else forget about how ToD apparently got "so fucked up" that all he knew was his name was ToD when he woke up at a random place in china? or are we going to completely forget about that just like how stephano beat a 14 year old in sc2
On November 18 2012 01:53 kolofome wrote: so did anyone else forget about how ToD apparently got "so fucked up" that all he knew was his name was ToD when he woke up at a random place in china? or are we going to completely forget about that just like how stephano beat a 14 year old in sc2
Cause child rape and doing drugs are equivalent.
i never said they were equivalent in actions/reprecussions, i said they were equivalent in the fact that no one seems to remember them, or even acknowledge them
On November 18 2012 01:53 kolofome wrote: so did anyone else forget about how ToD apparently got "so fucked up" that all he knew was his name was ToD when he woke up at a random place in china? or are we going to completely forget about that just like how stephano beat a 14 year old in sc2
Cause child rape and doing drugs are equivalent.
Just because she was underage doesn't mean it's rape.
duh?
Come on people, this a nerd/geek forum but everybody here is a well traveled and would get out of this easy.. Lie much?
This can happen to anybody, it has happen to a friend of mine in Beijing also and he is a well traveled and regular guy... so what?
What if he was drunk? was he driving? no.. Is he a minor? no.. Does he have money to do it? yes..
And what if he has a wife? Does it mean he can't get drunk?
Fucking forums are always filled with most skilled persons in everything! Hurray for forum thugs
On November 18 2012 01:46 minimalistic wrote: For all those people who critize Mrbitter and explaining random scenarios and/or stating complete bollocks:
Next time you are abroad. Having fun. You are in a club or a bar or anywhere random. Just think about it for one second: If someone attacks me, rob me, or kidnap me how would I feel? Have a pleasant holiday.
ezz wholes
Next time you are on a drunken binge and spend $2000 on prostitutes, just think about it for one second:
What would you do to hide the true nature of those charges from your wife?
dude.... It never stops to amaze me how fucked up in the head some people are. well done sir, well done.
People sure can hurl vague insults, but nobody as yet can explain why Mr Bitter would avoid police if his story were true.
Involving the police hardly ever changes anything in these cases,, it's just a hassle for no gain..
On November 18 2012 01:46 minimalistic wrote: For all those people who critize Mrbitter and explaining random scenarios and/or stating complete bollocks:
Next time you are abroad. Having fun. You are in a club or a bar or anywhere random. Just think about it for one second: If someone attacks me, rob me, or kidnap me how would I feel? Have a pleasant holiday.
ezz wholes
Next time you are on a drunken binge and spend $2000 on prostitutes, just think about it for one second:
What would you do to hide the true nature of those charges from your wife?
dude.... It never stops to amaze me how fucked up in the head some people are. well done sir, well done.
People sure can hurl vague insults, but nobody as yet can explain why Mr Bitter would avoid police if his story were true.
Involving the police hardly ever changes anything in these cases,, it's just a hassle for no gain..
Involving police will help protect any future victims, bolster the claim made to the bank, and potentially bring the criminals to justice. There's nothing to lose and everything to gain.
There is also plenty of evidence to go off. Mr Bitter saw their faces clearly and there is a record of the financial transaction. His reluctance to report it to them--with the given reason being he doesn't know what to say--simply doesn't make sense.
It makes perfect sense if he is lying. Then involving the police would be very bad for him.
On November 18 2012 01:46 minimalistic wrote: For all those people who critize Mrbitter and explaining random scenarios and/or stating complete bollocks:
Next time you are abroad. Having fun. You are in a club or a bar or anywhere random. Just think about it for one second: If someone attacks me, rob me, or kidnap me how would I feel? Have a pleasant holiday.
ezz wholes
Next time you are on a drunken binge and spend $2000 on prostitutes, just think about it for one second:
What would you do to hide the true nature of those charges from your wife?
dude.... It never stops to amaze me how fucked up in the head some people are. well done sir, well done.
People sure can hurl vague insults, but nobody as yet can explain why Mr Bitter would avoid police if his story were true.
Involving the police hardly ever changes anything in these cases,, it's just a hassle for no gain..
Involving police will help protect any future victims, bolster the claim made to the bank, and potentially bring the criminals to justice. There's nothing to lose and everything to gain.
There is also plenty of evidence to go off. Mr Bitter saw their faces clearly and there is a record of the financial transaction. His reluctance to report it to them--with the given reason being he doesn't know what to say--simply doesn't make sense.
It makes perfect sense if he is lying. Then involving the police would be very bad for him.
You seem to be the type of person that would blame a rape victim if she refused to go to the police afterwards, as if she was doing something illegal and thats what got her raped.
On November 18 2012 01:46 minimalistic wrote: For all those people who critize Mrbitter and explaining random scenarios and/or stating complete bollocks:
Next time you are abroad. Having fun. You are in a club or a bar or anywhere random. Just think about it for one second: If someone attacks me, rob me, or kidnap me how would I feel? Have a pleasant holiday.
ezz wholes
Next time you are on a drunken binge and spend $2000 on prostitutes, just think about it for one second:
What would you do to hide the true nature of those charges from your wife?
dude.... It never stops to amaze me how fucked up in the head some people are. well done sir, well done.
People sure can hurl vague insults, but nobody as yet can explain why Mr Bitter would avoid police if his story were true.
Involving the police hardly ever changes anything in these cases,, it's just a hassle for no gain..
Involving police will help protect any future victims, bolster the claim made to the bank, and potentially bring the criminals to justice. There's nothing to lose and everything to gain.
There is also plenty of evidence to go off. Mr Bitter saw their faces clearly and there is a record of the financial transaction. His reluctance to report it to them--with the given reason being he doesn't know what to say--simply doesn't make sense.
It makes perfect sense if he is lying. Then involving the police would be very bad for him.
And yet we know for a fact that there's a huge amount of unreported crimes (all kinds) all over the world. There's many studies on this and your conclusion that just because you don't go to the police you got something to hide is so stupidly narrow-minded that it makes my head hurt. You go even a step further and basically decide exactly what happened and what mrbitter "truly" did. Please just stop...
Pretty epic story honestly. Badass as hell lool Feel horrible about losingt hat money though, that is the realyl unfortunate part hopefully everything can be returned through investigation and what not.
I think that mr bitter is hiding that he probably was more drunk than he says, or that he got invited to this "club" and went to it willingly but then got scammed once he was there. He says that he was in a nice part of shanghai when this happened 11 pm. I find it hard to believe that these gangsters would be fishing for victims that early around those parts of town. Shanghai is bustling city and the streets arent exactly empty around 11 pm. Ive been to a 4 month travel through china by myself, including shanghai, and you wont get in to trouble unless walk on the streets by your self late at night very wasted, or if you accept invites from strangers in the night when you are alone.
Regarding the police, I know that in places with a lot of tourists the police take crimes against foreigners very seriously. The victims of corruption among police are the chinese people, not foreigners. But anyways, either these criminals offered mr bitter to come along to a club and he did, or they took advantage of him being very drunk. It is very safe to travel in China, especially places like shanghai and beijing.
I have no reason to doubt that he ended up getting scammed but i doubt that he has told the truth about how he ended up there.
On November 18 2012 03:42 Fjodorov wrote: I think that mr bitter is hiding that he probably was more drunk than he says, or that he got invited to this "club" and went to it willingly but then got scammed once he was there. He says that he was in a nice part of shanghai when this happened 11 pm. I find it hard to believe that these gangsters would be fishing for victims that early around those parts of town. Shanghai is bustling city and the streets arent exactly empty around 11 pm. Ive been to a 4 month travel through china by myself, including shanghai, and you wont get in to trouble unless walk on the streets by your self late at night very wasted, or if you accept invites from strangers in the night when you are alone.
Regarding the police, I know that in places with a lot of tourists the police take crimes against foreigners very seriously. The victims of corruption among police are the chinese people, not foreigners. But anyways, either these criminals offered mr bitter to come along to a club and he did, or they took advantage of him being very drunk. It is very safe to travel in China, especially places like shanghai and beijing.
I have no reason to doubt that he ended up getting scammed but i doubt that he has told the truth about how he ended up there.
If this is the way it happened, then what possible reason would Bitter have for even telling anybody it happened? Why wouldn't he just not tell anybody and chalk it up to stupidity on his part and move on? Why put himself into the avoidable spotlight like this if all he was gonna do was lie about it from the start?
On November 18 2012 03:42 Fjodorov wrote: I think that mr bitter is hiding that he probably was more drunk than he says, or that he got invited to this "club" and went to it willingly but then got scammed once he was there. He says that he was in a nice part of shanghai when this happened 11 pm. I find it hard to believe that these gangsters would be fishing for victims that early around those parts of town. Shanghai is bustling city and the streets arent exactly empty around 11 pm. Ive been to a 4 month travel through china by myself, including shanghai, and you wont get in to trouble unless walk on the streets by your self late at night very wasted, or if you accept invites from strangers in the night when you are alone.
Regarding the police, I know that in places with a lot of tourists the police take crimes against foreigners very seriously. The victims of corruption among police are the chinese people, not foreigners. But anyways, either these criminals offered mr bitter to come along to a club and he did, or they took advantage of him being very drunk. It is very safe to travel in China, especially places like shanghai and beijing.
I have no reason to doubt that he ended up getting scammed but i doubt that he has told the truth about how he ended up there.
If this is the way it happened, then what possible reason would Bitter have for even telling anybody it happened? Why wouldn't he just not tell anybody and chalk it up to stupidity on his part and move on? Why put himself into the avoidable spotlight like this if all he was gonna do was lie about it from the start?
No bad intentions i guess, just doesnt want to look weak or like he is at fault. In fact, even if he was very drunk etc he is still the victim of a crime so im not trying to take away anything from that. Its just unfortunate that his story has a few dodgy parts which leads to alot of discussion. Its normal human behaviour to not describe the very truth, if you ask me. Most people spice up there stories more or less.
On November 18 2012 03:42 Fjodorov wrote: I think that mr bitter is hiding that he probably was more drunk than he says, or that he got invited to this "club" and went to it willingly but then got scammed once he was there. He says that he was in a nice part of shanghai when this happened 11 pm. I find it hard to believe that these gangsters would be fishing for victims that early around those parts of town. Shanghai is bustling city and the streets arent exactly empty around 11 pm. Ive been to a 4 month travel through china by myself, including shanghai, and you wont get in to trouble unless walk on the streets by your self late at night very wasted, or if you accept invites from strangers in the night when you are alone.
Regarding the police, I know that in places with a lot of tourists the police take crimes against foreigners very seriously. The victims of corruption among police are the chinese people, not foreigners. But anyways, either these criminals offered mr bitter to come along to a club and he did, or they took advantage of him being very drunk. It is very safe to travel in China, especially places like shanghai and beijing.
I have no reason to doubt that he ended up getting scammed but i doubt that he has told the truth about how he ended up there.
If this is the way it happened, then what possible reason would Bitter have for even telling anybody it happened? Why wouldn't he just not tell anybody and chalk it up to stupidity on his part and move on? Why put himself into the avoidable spotlight like this if all he was gonna do was lie about it from the start?
No bad intentions i guess, just doesnt want to look weak or like he is at fault. In fact, even if he was very drunk etc he is still the victim of a crime so im not trying to take away anything from that. Its just unfortunate that his story has a few dodgy parts which leads to alot of discussion. Its normal human behaviour to not describe the very truth, if you ask me. Most people spice up there stories more or less.
Its one thing to spice up a story for your friends, its another thing to make up an obviously blatant lie to thousands of sympathetic ears as well as to his bank.
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
Yeah, at the end of the day, the sentiment that we should be suspicious of absolutely everyone everywhere is beyond depressing because it's actually the most efficient outlook to have Depressing!
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
On November 18 2012 04:40 Enders116 wrote: Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
Actually Enders, it depends on which city in China and your nationality. In Shanghai, if you are a foreigner and you report this to the police, they may take is seriously because the government wants to protect Shanghai's reputation. Something like this showing up in the foreign media would look really bad for Shanghai.
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
Cops have gotten alot better in regards to domestic and civil policing, sure they still pick sides and are corrupt to a degree, but that's pretty much true for any country. I've never heard of this happening because for one, foreigners - especially Caucasian / white - are regarded quite highly by the general populace because of the amount of admiration they place on them, I would say even higher than the general regard is for Chinese domestic tourists going to another part of their own country and speaking with a different dialect. And the police really don't want to cause any international incidents because of how much negative attention that would attract to them, not simply from the media or western critique, but from their own government for the amount of shit that it would spawn. It was one of the tipping points that got Bo Xilai stripped of his power since a British person was killed in some convoluted plot, keep in mind Bo Xilai was able to command essential the entire city's cop force to surround an American Embassy but he still can't dodge the bullet on this one because it became an international incident.
Mighty intriguing, sounds like a metropolitan legend. Not that I'm accused of it not being true, but it is really interesting to get some insights of how the back alleys of China is like, from a foreigners's perspective, based on his own experience. Sorry for the financial loss but on the bright side, it was wise not to defy them. Also, I would suggest you calling the police as they do take foreigners seriously more than their own citizens(more like residents, not ciztizens), which is both sarcastic and hilarious. Dont't you if you ever heard of the news before. The police in Wuhai did moblize local residents to find a lost bike for a Japanese guy, whose stolen bike was retrieved in no more than 2 days. Here's another story. Some police in Beijing actually went a long and treacherous way in a hill area where there is no basic infrastructure whatsoever but winding paths, to retrieve a lost horse for an US guy. So I'd say there is a pretty good chance they would really put some efforts for your case, especially at this critical momment of transition.
On November 16 2012 21:30 Inzan1ty wrote: China (the majority) is still very poor
you should expect the unexpected, aka better treat it like a 3rd world countty (it isnt, but it might be in terms of criminal activities)
However you are rather safe in Japan and South Korea.
This is just retarded. It's the same for all countries, I don't feel safe walking through Osaka, Sydney, or Auckland at dead night especially alone.
Wonder if people here actually travel or they get everything from new channels.
Exactly what I was thinking. Every city in this world has its "dark alleys", only a matter of more or less of them. Regardless, walking alone in a shady street/alley is like asking for trouble.
This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. Hard to say what the right move is there.
If for whatever reasons you dont like china or dont want blizzard to host tournaments there, that's ok, but you cant be serious, that blizzard or the embassy could put pressure on anyone with something like this.
I've heard at least 10 similar stories about ppl getting robbed. These things happen all over the world. I'm not saying it's good or anything, but there's nothing unique about it. MrBitter probably had not heard such stories before, that's why he didnt get out of the taxi and followed the guy, i'm sure many of you would have done the same.
It was a hard learned lesson, I hope he can get something done with the bank to at least reduce the losses. If nothing else, none reading this will fall to the same trick.
I came across him last night at the hotel, and asked him about how did he feel about BWC and China(on purpose), and he was like "it's fantastic and China is a good country", but from his voice I know he is not happy lol.
I've had something similar happen to me. I went to Austria a few years back and was drinking in a park with a girl from my school that I randomly ran into in a museum in Vienna. These 16 year old Kids came up to us, and started asking us questions, they didn't speak English very well but the girl I was with knew some German. So after some questions we asked what nationality they where because they where darker skinned and some where speaking another language besides German. The mistake I made was picking one out of the group and guessing that he was from Kazakhstan (which he was) and somehow that offended him all his friends where laughing that i guessed right. So we leave and as where walking down the street the kid from Kazakhstan shows up with a new group of friends about 6 of them, they start to literally just reach in my pocket and they take my cell phone before I even realize whats going on. They take the girls purse and take her camera and take a bit of money off of both of us.
Their wasn't any violence, and the weird part was that their was a few other people on the street and we where asking them to help but they just ignored us. I guess I should probably disclaim that I had a Cast on as I had broken my wrist in 2 places from a car accident shortly before the trip so i was in no condition to fight back. They ended up taking what they could and running away. Even if I had been able bodied i probably wouldn't have fought back i was using a pretty shitty cell phone over there, and I didn't have much money (100 euro's or so) on me anyways, it wasn't a very big deal. I thought it was pretty screwed up that no one would help us out though, like the few businessmen we saw walking down the street just kept on walking.
Either way it was a shitty situation so i can understand where mr bitter is coming from, although his story is like 1000x more fucked up lol.
Wow... Why would he even go around anywhere in Asia without a translator or other friends... That's such a bad idea. Although I do agree, Hong Kong is much safer than anywhere else in China lol.
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
proof or bullshit.
take a trip to china like the rest of us have. then accuse us of bullshit.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
My country might be shit , but at least I walk safe at night :>
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
You don't have to say that. You really, really don't.
I was in Japan (this happened in Osaka) a year ago and remember a couple from my hotel complaining that while they were out walking some people in police uniforms (off the top of my head I think they said police vests, not the full uniform) had started harassing them for identification and then money. Don't think anything ever came of it though
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
Its true, if mr bitter had a concealed firearm then he wouldn't have had anything stolen from him. Thats why its a good thing to let everybody carry, except felons ofcourse.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
Its true, if mr bitter had a concealed firearm then he wouldn't have had anything stolen from him. Thats why its a good thing to let everybody carry, except felons ofcourse.
Yes sure, he won't have anything stolen, but his life will most likely be taken, since gangsters will have better equipment, like machine guns against his pathetic pistols.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
Its true, if mr bitter had a concealed firearm then he wouldn't have had anything stolen from him. Thats why its a good thing to let everybody carry, except felons ofcourse.
What happens if they both had guns? Does someone always end up getting shot over money. I would tend to think that if you ever have a gun and a real gangster is messing with you, then he has one too, and he probably has less reservations about using it. At the end of the day, your best bet is probably just trying to recoup your losses.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
Kind of not fair to compare the suburbs to one of the largest cities in the world.
Edit: I just learned that Paris is not even in the list of 60 largest cities, but the point remains.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
Its true, if mr bitter had a concealed firearm then he wouldn't have had anything stolen from him. Thats why its a good thing to let everybody carry, except felons ofcourse.
What happens if they both had guns? Does someone always end up getting shot over money. I would tend to think that if you ever have a gun and a real gangster is messing with you, then he has one too, and he probably has less reservations about using it. At the end of the day, your best bet is probably just trying to recoup your losses.
Um, whip out the gun and fire it. You aren't going to be pointing it at them for a minute like in movies. And yes, somebody is going to get shot. They tried to rob you , doesn't meant they are going to die. Not that this is the best scenario for it but, yes its safer if everybody has a firearm. People tend to not mess with each other when they both know about it.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
Its true, if mr bitter had a concealed firearm then he wouldn't have had anything stolen from him. Thats why its a good thing to let everybody carry, except felons ofcourse.
What happens if they both had guns? Does someone always end up getting shot over money. I would tend to think that if you ever have a gun and a real gangster is messing with you, then he has one too, and he probably has less reservations about using it. At the end of the day, your best bet is probably just trying to recoup your losses.
Um, whip out the gun and fire it. You aren't going to be pointing it at them for a minute like in movies. And yes, somebody is going to get shot. They tried to rob you , doesn't meant they are going to die. Not that this is the best scenario for it but, yes its safer if everybody has a firearm. People tend to not mess with each other when they both know about it.
This is an absolutely absurd stance to take on this situation. So, instead of Mr. Bitter walking away short a thousand dollars or more, he gets into an armed confrontation with a Chinese gangster on his home turf with nobody to help him. And entangles himself in a situation that could possibly cost him thousands of dollars more and years of legal trouble.
You're delusional for saying "it's safer if everybody has a firearm" as well, that is an INCREDIBLY dangerous and irresponsible attitude to take. Seriously, this kind of attitude is just a gun-nut fantasy.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
Its true, if mr bitter had a concealed firearm then he wouldn't have had anything stolen from him. Thats why its a good thing to let everybody carry, except felons ofcourse.
What happens if they both had guns? Does someone always end up getting shot over money. I would tend to think that if you ever have a gun and a real gangster is messing with you, then he has one too, and he probably has less reservations about using it. At the end of the day, your best bet is probably just trying to recoup your losses.
Um, whip out the gun and fire it. You aren't going to be pointing it at them for a minute like in movies. And yes, somebody is going to get shot. They tried to rob you , doesn't meant they are going to die. Not that this is the best scenario for it but, yes its safer if everybody has a firearm. People tend to not mess with each other when they both know about it.
Yeah tell that to the plethora of evidence illustrating the considerably higher level of gun crimes and injuries in the US compared to other first world countries...
Bit sad you value life so little as to think you would rather gamble on who has a quicker draw than give up $1600 that you would probably get back from the bank anyway...
And lol try shooting and killing chinese citizen as a foreigner, see how far that gets you in their legal system
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
Its true, if mr bitter had a concealed firearm then he wouldn't have had anything stolen from him. Thats why its a good thing to let everybody carry, except felons ofcourse.
What happens if they both had guns? Does someone always end up getting shot over money. I would tend to think that if you ever have a gun and a real gangster is messing with you, then he has one too, and he probably has less reservations about using it. At the end of the day, your best bet is probably just trying to recoup your losses.
Um, whip out the gun and fire it. You aren't going to be pointing it at them for a minute like in movies. And yes, somebody is going to get shot. They tried to rob you , doesn't meant they are going to die. Not that this is the best scenario for it but, yes its safer if everybody has a firearm. People tend to not mess with each other when they both know about it.
Yeah tell that to the plethora of evidence illustrating the considerably higher level of gun crimes and injuries in the US compared to other first world countries...
Bit sad you value life so little as to think you would rather gamble on who has a quicker draw than give up $1600 that you would probably get back from the bank anyway...
And lol try shooting and killing chinese citizen as a foreigner, see how far that gets you in their legal system
Im not saying he would have done this in china.... obviously you cant carry around concealed weapons there. In america, yes you can get away with shooting somebody if they are trying to rob you and you feel threatened (for your life) if you want to say that to your lawyer.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
Its true, if mr bitter had a concealed firearm then he wouldn't have had anything stolen from him. Thats why its a good thing to let everybody carry, except felons ofcourse.
What happens if they both had guns? Does someone always end up getting shot over money. I would tend to think that if you ever have a gun and a real gangster is messing with you, then he has one too, and he probably has less reservations about using it. At the end of the day, your best bet is probably just trying to recoup your losses.
Um, whip out the gun and fire it. You aren't going to be pointing it at them for a minute like in movies. And yes, somebody is going to get shot. They tried to rob you , doesn't meant they are going to die. Not that this is the best scenario for it but, yes its safer if everybody has a firearm. People tend to not mess with each other when they both know about it.
You're insane. What do you think is going to happen when you whip out a gun and shoot one of 4 armed thugs? Gee, I wonder if the other 3 will retaliate. Everyone should carry guns? Jesus, what hole did you crawl out of? Most people don't have the proper judgment to know what kind of coffee they want in the morning, let alone make life or death decisions in the heat of the moment.
Anyway...glad MrBitter is safe, I think you're lucky in the method they robbed you, because credit/debit transactions are easy to trace and almost always revokable. If they had sent you to the ATM to begin with, the money would become liquid and you'd be screwed. I've disputed fraudulent transactions of $5k before just by filling out a simple form, so this amount shouldn't be any trouble.
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
proof or bullshit.
take a trip to china like the rest of us have. then accuse us of bullshit.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
Its true, if mr bitter had a concealed firearm then he wouldn't have had anything stolen from him. Thats why its a good thing to let everybody carry, except felons ofcourse.
in which case he would have been shot and killed for being a threat and then robbed on top of it. think before u speak. having a concealed weapon endangers ur life more than not having one, especially when ur being OUTNUMBERED by a bunch of thugs. bitter got real lucky if he got away with just money being stolen. having concealed weapons when the ppl that are robbing u might also have concealed weapons will turn a petty robbery into a gunfight.
On November 19 2012 17:18 Kaz_Coaching wrote: This should be reported to the US embassy as well as Blizzard so they know where they are hosting tournaments. While it's true China government can't be responsible for every citizen, China officials have a tendency to look the other way when it comes to corruption. When pressured with the threat of losing US business, city officials are quick to crack down. The Embassy could also help report it to police, as I'm fairly sure Mr.Bitter doesn't speak Mandarin.
Shame it happened, I don't think I would have gotten out of the car without knowing where I was either. It's hard to say what the right move was.
China is a much safer country than you think. You can actually walk in the suburbs, alone at night without being worried. Try cities like Paris, just taking the subway after 10pm is scary.
The americans have it right, if everyone has a gun then we're all safe.
Yea, till the point where you get shot by someone in a bad mood cause he thinks you look funny at him.
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
proof or bullshit.
take a trip to china like the rest of us have. then accuse us of bullshit.
I still accuse you of bullshit.
Are you kidding me the police will never steal your passport because that is property of your government and if you go to your embassy and tell them that the chinese police took your passport and refused to give it back without a bribe that would be an international incident, there is just no way that a police officer would even consider doing that.
glad that bitter is ok. glad to hear that even though you lied to them..they let you off alright. something like that would've scared me shitless and I would have not know what to do.
I just arrived in China myself and glad to be well informed and will definitely step out of the car when a stranger steps in it with me. Thanks a million Bitter.
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
proof or bullshit.
take a trip to china like the rest of us have. then accuse us of bullshit.
I still accuse you of bullshit.
Are you kidding me the police will never steal your passport because that is property of your government and if you go to your embassy and tell them that the chinese police took your passport and refused to give it back without a bribe that would be an international incident, there is just no way that a police officer would even consider doing that.
It is pretty funny how naive some people are :D I have no expierence with asian countries, but african and latin american. Do you really think a little cop who gets paid less than a mcdonalds employee in europe would care about something like embassy and goverment? They just take it away and tell you to give them some proof(money) that you really are who you are and shit. If you (could) go to your embassy and say they "stole" it from you, the cops will just decline everything and out of nowhere some random dude found your passport in some dumbster and evantually "Here you go! Have fun".
The world is not My Little Pony place. People who have very little and think you have a lot will try a lot to get a little of your a lot.
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
proof or bullshit.
take a trip to china like the rest of us have. then accuse us of bullshit.
I still accuse you of bullshit.
Are you kidding me the police will never steal your passport because that is property of your government and if you go to your embassy and tell them that the chinese police took your passport and refused to give it back without a bribe that would be an international incident, there is just no way that a police officer would even consider doing that.
Yea he's either a complete idiot or troll. Always tough to tell when somebody is that stupid. Although I must admit that the Chinese government just took my passport and made me pay 900 yuan to get it back...
I've been travelling the world for 15 years with my job and something along those lines happened to me in Shanghai as well, not exactly the same but involving credit cards and getting ripped off. I travel to China 2-3 times a year so when it happened I was pretty shocked as I consider myself pretty street smart. China is still my favorite country to visit anyway and something like this can happen anywhere. I got all my money back (£2000) through a claim with the CC company, hope you do as well.
It's something that is pretty shitty to happen but you live and learn
On November 18 2012 01:53 kolofome wrote: so did anyone else forget about how ToD apparently got "so fucked up" that all he knew was his name was ToD when he woke up at a random place in china? or are we going to completely forget about that just like how stephano beat a 14 year old in sc2
How the hell is this post okay? Stephano never even beat up a 14 year old; it was a joke. I think reddit would be a more appropriate place for you.
Good to hear he got out of it okish. Wouldnt want to have been in his place....you never know what those people are capable of. For the same he had entirely refused and got shot or stabbed.
I have been in nepal once...and talked with a guy, who i was told later was the leader of a gang who robbed tourists. In nepal 100 euro is enough for those people to feed themselves with for more then a year...i can understand that they get tempted to do those things because of poverty..but you need to be carefull with them..wouldnt have been the first time someone got stabbed. I think mrbitter had pro decision making, what he did was probably the best way out if the situation, because its not worth doing heroics...only fools try to be heroic in those situations (atleast when you are outnumbered and dont have a escape route :D).
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
proof or bullshit.
take a trip to china like the rest of us have. then accuse us of bullshit.
I still accuse you of bullshit.
Are you kidding me the police will never steal your passport because that is property of your government and if you go to your embassy and tell them that the chinese police took your passport and refused to give it back without a bribe that would be an international incident, there is just no way that a police officer would even consider doing that.
Yea he's either a complete idiot or troll. Always tough to tell when somebody is that stupid. Although I must admit that the Chinese government just took my passport and made me pay 900 yuan to get it back...
and extend the visa
The following is a casual email that a friend of mine sent me less than a year ago. The police stole his passport in Changzhou.
On November 16 2012 06:07 Warlock40 wrote: Is there any chance at all of him being able to get his money back? They might never catch the robbers, but can he go to the bank and say he was coerced?
On November 16 2012 06:05 larse wrote: I'm surprised that none of those casters, players, and media people bought a VPN before they went there.
A what?
He says on reddit that he has called the bank and that they are launching an investigation. So hopefully!
He will call the bank but not the police. Interesting.
Calling the police in China does JACK SHIT. I've said this numerous times before. Police will even steal a foreigner's passport in China and hold it hostage while the foreigner coughs up 5000 RMB for it. I know guys that have been in that situation before.
proof or bullshit.
take a trip to china like the rest of us have. then accuse us of bullshit.
I still accuse you of bullshit.
Are you kidding me the police will never steal your passport because that is property of your government and if you go to your embassy and tell them that the chinese police took your passport and refused to give it back without a bribe that would be an international incident, there is just no way that a police officer would even consider doing that.
It is pretty funny how naive some people are :D I have no expierence with asian countries, but african and latin american. Do you really think a little cop who gets paid less than a mcdonalds employee in europe would care about something like embassy and goverment? They just take it away and tell you to give them some proof(money) that you really are who you are and shit. If you (could) go to your embassy and say they "stole" it from you, the cops will just decline everything and out of nowhere some random dude found your passport in some dumbster and evantually "Here you go! Have fun".
The world is not My Little Pony place. People who have very little and think you have a lot will try a lot to get a little of your a lot.
This is so true.
EDIT: I didn't want to bring this up in the original post that everyone just pyramid-stacked but here's another viable example: Pornography in China. It is illegal to possess, produce, or redistribute porn in China. Yet every single DVD store in China sells it. Doing this is punishable by 1-3 years in Chinese prison. Or it's like how prostitution in America is illegal, yet people still do it without getting caught (at least for a short amount of time).
BTW: Not every single city in China has embassies. Theoretically, that's like telling a Chinese person in Oklahoma to go to the Chinese embassy to get their stolen passport replaced. And then let's take in to account their wallet and every other form of ID was also stolen. They have virtually no way of getting to the nearest Embassy (houston, texas) unless a friend drives them to the embassy in person.