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On October 22 2012 12:24 iky43210 wrote:
Xiphos has a personal vendetta against sc2 since release. Everything he sprouts was along the line of how sc2 is bad and bw is better, along with alot of jargons and Blizzard conspiracies theories, and he will never fails to trout some more bw vs sc2 at every opportunity
half of his posts on LR threads are gloating about how kespa players and bw superiority. Guy just can't give it a rest
Although its hard to admit, but I'm as Xiphos. I was bashing SC2 since its release. There are a lot of people like us, god knows we're not like 'twilight saga haters', most of whom jump into bandwagon and never watch the movie actually. We are more of critical people who always find imperfections and ready to point it out.
I want sc2 to be a better game, by no means, I want it to die.
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the desktop PC is being used less and less each year.
females will never play SC2 in any great numbers.
people thinking SC2 or any RTS will "sweep the nation" are incorrect.
strategy video games have always had a hard-core, vocal, loyal, SMALL fan base.
other great strategy titles like M.U.L.E. and C&C also had their day in the sun, but as great as those games are/were the most popular games were things like Pac-man and Super Mario...this trend is not going to change.
casual players who like to play farmville are not going to abandan their chickens and goats so they can blow up a command center with a nuclear bomb.
SC2 is a niche market title that is part of a niche market ( desktop PCs ) that is slowly shrinking in mainstream usage with each passing year.
just enjoy the game for what it is ... as people who loved M.U.L.E. and C&C loved those games.
stop fantasizing the Starcraft2 might somehow become as popular as baseball. ...
and everything should be fine.
in 5 years SC2 will have a small loyal fan base and hacking will be rampant.
if you can't enjoy the game for its merits and "as is" and can only "have fun" if u have in ur mind that this game will start appearing on ESPN then try playing a different game.
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Hey Filter, thanks for another cogent report on how you feel about the game. I wish people took more of what you say to heart. You have a measured, well-spoken and insightful opinions. I'll basically be proposing to you any day now, no homo.
Sorry about the flamers in this thread, their tummies are hurting.
Because who likes to swallow bad news? Makes my tummy hurt, too, this bad medicine of a disappointed community.
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On October 18 2012 14:29 kill619 wrote:
I'll never understand how one team disbanding, an expansion that's very early in beta(relative to when it's actually going to be released) not being perfect, and three reddit post in a day warrants so much panic and distress in a community so quickly.
You are right in that you will never understand it, because it does not seem that you are looking at actual data of viewers who watch daily streams and various tournaments has severely fallen down in comparison to a year ago. Tournaments could do 60-70k viewers, now they range in 30-35k, streamers have almost gotten their viewership halved, Destiny used to get 4k viewers now he sits at 1.5k, CatZ used to do 2.5k now he is at 500-1000.
Basically people were here, they saw stuff and then left, that is what data is telling us and everyone involved is concerned because many people (try to) make money of the game and that well dried up fast.
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On October 22 2012 13:22 Tyree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 14:29 kill619 wrote:
I'll never understand how one team disbanding, an expansion that's very early in beta(relative to when it's actually going to be released) not being perfect, and three reddit post in a day warrants so much panic and distress in a community so quickly. You are right in that you will never understand it, because it does not seem that you are looking at actual data of viewers who watch daily streams and various tournaments has severely fallen down in comparison to a year ago. Tournaments could do 60-70k viewers, now they range in 30-35k, streamers have almost gotten their viewership halved, Destiny used to get 4k viewers now he sits at 1.5k, CatZ used to do 2.5k now he is at 500-1000. Basically people were here, they saw stuff and then left, that is what data is telling us and everyone involved is concerned because many people (try to) make money of the game and that well dried up fast.
Even if that is the case, and I am not saying it is (reading data is tricky and can be misleading). That is kind of natural, that is not because people came and then realized oh hey the game is shit. You will always have expansion followed by contraction and plateau and then you can go into a new expansion under the right circumstances. If sc2 reached 60k viewers and then dropped to 30k then those extra 30k were inflated numbers because of the hype and the thing of the day. I just don't get why people can have so much tunnel vision that they don't see that this is what is happening with LoL too. LoL is growing hugely in viewers but it is not a magical game that works differently than any other in terms of mathematics. It will eventually contract too, and then what, are all the LoL players going to freak out about their game dying too?
But then again, I also really question data because it is so easy to show that sc2 is shrinking if you want to, you can just pick and choose what you compare. Sc2 is such a huge scene with so many different actors that while some might be shrinking others might just as well be growing. I mean the latest husky video of WhiteRa vs Algorithm in hots has 118k views after one week. GSL final vods has 112k views and that is the vods aka not counting all the people who saw it live.
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On October 22 2012 13:38 VanGarde wrote:
LoL is growing hugely in viewers but it is not a magical game that works differently than any other in terms of mathematics. It will eventually contract too, and then what, are all the LoL players going to freak out about their game dying too?
They will if Riot starts acting like Blizzard is now. More and more people are becoming disillusioned by Blizzard.
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On October 22 2012 13:42 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 13:38 VanGarde wrote:
LoL is growing hugely in viewers but it is not a magical game that works differently than any other in terms of mathematics. It will eventually contract too, and then what, are all the LoL players going to freak out about their game dying too? They will if Riot starts acting like Blizzard is now. More and more people are becoming disillusioned by Blizzard.
Personally being disillusioned by Blizzard is not evidence that others who stop watching the game are doing it because of being disillusioned by blizzard. Personal bias is best not taken into account when talking about data and trends. That said, do you really not think that there is just as much riot bashing going on in the LoL community? If anything the Riot bashing has been even worse over the course of these last years.
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There is actually no "Starcraft Crisis". What has happened is the game has stopped growing. It grew and it grew and reached many people and it's still this huge powerful, yet niche community. But then it stopped growing. Now what did you expect? Did you expect it to continue to grow non stop until we were bigger than soccer? Or what?
It's fine that you are fanatical about this game, I am too. But not everyone else is. Or will be. Believe it or not, starcraft is not everyones cup of tea. We're not dying. We're still the number 2 esport.
You people are just going crazy. Yea sure, blizzard is to "blame" for some of this. They could have implemented stuff to cater to more casuals, but that would only do so much more anyway. Starcraft isn't a casual game. It's a hardcore game and there's no reason for anyone to play it unless they really like it and are wanting to challenge themselves. I'm fine with that. Why aren't any of you?
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On October 22 2012 13:54 Epoch wrote:
There is actually no "Starcraft Crisis". What has happened is the game has stopped growing. It grew and it grew and reached many people and it's still this huge powerful, yet niche community. But then it stopped growing. Now what did you expect? Did you expect it to continue to grow non stop until we were bigger than soccer? Or what?
It's fine that you are fanatical about this game, I am too. But not everyone else is. Or will be. Believe it or not, starcraft is not everyones cup of tea. We're not dying. We're still the number 2 esport.
You people are just going crazy. Yea sure, blizzard is to "blame" for some of this. They could have implemented stuff to cater to more casuals, but that would only do so much more anyway. Starcraft isn't a casual game. It's a hardcore game and there's no reason for anyone to play it unless they really like it and are wanting to challenge themselves. I'm fine with that. Why aren't any of you?
Because some of us read this blog http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=287965
Because some of us believe Starcraft should be a #1 esports and not anything less.
Because some of us believe that sc2 has an obligation to live up to the standards that its predecessor set.
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I think main problem is game-play itself rather than UI.
You could witness it in most recent finals where Zerg was all about getting lategame compo and others not letting it happen. I don't think its horrible but its getting boring coz every game is the same.
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On October 22 2012 14:11 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 13:54 Epoch wrote:
There is actually no "Starcraft Crisis". What has happened is the game has stopped growing. It grew and it grew and reached many people and it's still this huge powerful, yet niche community. But then it stopped growing. Now what did you expect? Did you expect it to continue to grow non stop until we were bigger than soccer? Or what?
It's fine that you are fanatical about this game, I am too. But not everyone else is. Or will be. Believe it or not, starcraft is not everyones cup of tea. We're not dying. We're still the number 2 esport.
You people are just going crazy. Yea sure, blizzard is to "blame" for some of this. They could have implemented stuff to cater to more casuals, but that would only do so much more anyway. Starcraft isn't a casual game. It's a hardcore game and there's no reason for anyone to play it unless they really like it and are wanting to challenge themselves. I'm fine with that. Why aren't any of you? Because some of us read this blog http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=287965Because some of us believe Starcraft should be a #1 esports and not anything less. Because some of us believe that sc2 has an obligation to live up to the standards that its predecessor set.
so be big in one small country and practically unknown every where else?
hasnt SC2 already surpassed BW at least in amount of people watching it?
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On October 22 2012 14:48 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 14:11 don_kyuhote wrote:On October 22 2012 13:54 Epoch wrote:
There is actually no "Starcraft Crisis". What has happened is the game has stopped growing. It grew and it grew and reached many people and it's still this huge powerful, yet niche community. But then it stopped growing. Now what did you expect? Did you expect it to continue to grow non stop until we were bigger than soccer? Or what?
It's fine that you are fanatical about this game, I am too. But not everyone else is. Or will be. Believe it or not, starcraft is not everyones cup of tea. We're not dying. We're still the number 2 esport.
You people are just going crazy. Yea sure, blizzard is to "blame" for some of this. They could have implemented stuff to cater to more casuals, but that would only do so much more anyway. Starcraft isn't a casual game. It's a hardcore game and there's no reason for anyone to play it unless they really like it and are wanting to challenge themselves. I'm fine with that. Why aren't any of you? Because some of us read this blog http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=287965Because some of us believe Starcraft should be a #1 esports and not anything less. Because some of us believe that sc2 has an obligation to live up to the standards that its predecessor set. so be big in one small country and practically unknown every where else? hasnt SC2 already surpassed BW at least in amount of people watching it?
Honestly, from a spectator perspective, with so many tournaments going on to a point where a TSL feels like nothing special, I would prefer sc2 to become BW big in one country and forget about the rest. That's just me though.
Also when I said standards, I meant in terms of gameplay rather than view counts.
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On October 22 2012 14:52 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 14:48 Forikorder wrote:On October 22 2012 14:11 don_kyuhote wrote:On October 22 2012 13:54 Epoch wrote:
There is actually no "Starcraft Crisis". What has happened is the game has stopped growing. It grew and it grew and reached many people and it's still this huge powerful, yet niche community. But then it stopped growing. Now what did you expect? Did you expect it to continue to grow non stop until we were bigger than soccer? Or what?
It's fine that you are fanatical about this game, I am too. But not everyone else is. Or will be. Believe it or not, starcraft is not everyones cup of tea. We're not dying. We're still the number 2 esport.
You people are just going crazy. Yea sure, blizzard is to "blame" for some of this. They could have implemented stuff to cater to more casuals, but that would only do so much more anyway. Starcraft isn't a casual game. It's a hardcore game and there's no reason for anyone to play it unless they really like it and are wanting to challenge themselves. I'm fine with that. Why aren't any of you? Because some of us read this blog http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=287965Because some of us believe Starcraft should be a #1 esports and not anything less. Because some of us believe that sc2 has an obligation to live up to the standards that its predecessor set. so be big in one small country and practically unknown every where else? hasnt SC2 already surpassed BW at least in amount of people watching it? Honestly, from a spectator perspective, with so many tournaments going on to a point where a TSL feels like nothing special, I would prefer sc2 to become BW big in one country and forget about the rest. That's just me though. Also when I said standards, I meant in terms of gameplay rather than view counts.
TSL was an online tourny though so of course its not going to be a big deal the community is pretty vocal about how much they dont like watching cross server play and pros wine about cross server play for online tournaments is not a recipe for success
plus was any like really big names even in that tourny?
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On October 22 2012 14:48 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 14:11 don_kyuhote wrote:On October 22 2012 13:54 Epoch wrote:
There is actually no "Starcraft Crisis". What has happened is the game has stopped growing. It grew and it grew and reached many people and it's still this huge powerful, yet niche community. But then it stopped growing. Now what did you expect? Did you expect it to continue to grow non stop until we were bigger than soccer? Or what?
It's fine that you are fanatical about this game, I am too. But not everyone else is. Or will be. Believe it or not, starcraft is not everyones cup of tea. We're not dying. We're still the number 2 esport.
You people are just going crazy. Yea sure, blizzard is to "blame" for some of this. They could have implemented stuff to cater to more casuals, but that would only do so much more anyway. Starcraft isn't a casual game. It's a hardcore game and there's no reason for anyone to play it unless they really like it and are wanting to challenge themselves. I'm fine with that. Why aren't any of you? Because some of us read this blog http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=287965Because some of us believe Starcraft should be a #1 esports and not anything less. Because some of us believe that sc2 has an obligation to live up to the standards that its predecessor set. so be big in one small country and practically unknown every where else? hasnt SC2 already surpassed BW at least in amount of people watching it?
Compared to BW's prime? Not even close.
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On October 22 2012 14:54 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 14:48 Forikorder wrote:On October 22 2012 14:11 don_kyuhote wrote:On October 22 2012 13:54 Epoch wrote:
There is actually no "Starcraft Crisis". What has happened is the game has stopped growing. It grew and it grew and reached many people and it's still this huge powerful, yet niche community. But then it stopped growing. Now what did you expect? Did you expect it to continue to grow non stop until we were bigger than soccer? Or what?
It's fine that you are fanatical about this game, I am too. But not everyone else is. Or will be. Believe it or not, starcraft is not everyones cup of tea. We're not dying. We're still the number 2 esport.
You people are just going crazy. Yea sure, blizzard is to "blame" for some of this. They could have implemented stuff to cater to more casuals, but that would only do so much more anyway. Starcraft isn't a casual game. It's a hardcore game and there's no reason for anyone to play it unless they really like it and are wanting to challenge themselves. I'm fine with that. Why aren't any of you? Because some of us read this blog http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=287965Because some of us believe Starcraft should be a #1 esports and not anything less. Because some of us believe that sc2 has an obligation to live up to the standards that its predecessor set. so be big in one small country and practically unknown every where else? hasnt SC2 already surpassed BW at least in amount of people watching it? Compared to BW's prime? Not even close.
so korea alone managed to have more viewers then Korea + the rest of the world?
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On October 22 2012 15:05 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 14:54 L3gendary wrote:On October 22 2012 14:48 Forikorder wrote:On October 22 2012 14:11 don_kyuhote wrote:On October 22 2012 13:54 Epoch wrote:
There is actually no "Starcraft Crisis". What has happened is the game has stopped growing. It grew and it grew and reached many people and it's still this huge powerful, yet niche community. But then it stopped growing. Now what did you expect? Did you expect it to continue to grow non stop until we were bigger than soccer? Or what?
It's fine that you are fanatical about this game, I am too. But not everyone else is. Or will be. Believe it or not, starcraft is not everyones cup of tea. We're not dying. We're still the number 2 esport.
You people are just going crazy. Yea sure, blizzard is to "blame" for some of this. They could have implemented stuff to cater to more casuals, but that would only do so much more anyway. Starcraft isn't a casual game. It's a hardcore game and there's no reason for anyone to play it unless they really like it and are wanting to challenge themselves. I'm fine with that. Why aren't any of you? Because some of us read this blog http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=287965Because some of us believe Starcraft should be a #1 esports and not anything less. Because some of us believe that sc2 has an obligation to live up to the standards that its predecessor set. so be big in one small country and practically unknown every where else? hasnt SC2 already surpassed BW at least in amount of people watching it? Compared to BW's prime? Not even close. so korea alone managed to have more viewers then Korea + the rest of the world?
Yeah. OSL and Proleague finals (used to) have roughly the same LIVE audience that tourneys like Dreamhack have stream viewers. Plus a few million on TV.
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On October 22 2012 15:05 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 14:54 L3gendary wrote:On October 22 2012 14:48 Forikorder wrote:On October 22 2012 14:11 don_kyuhote wrote:On October 22 2012 13:54 Epoch wrote:
There is actually no "Starcraft Crisis". What has happened is the game has stopped growing. It grew and it grew and reached many people and it's still this huge powerful, yet niche community. But then it stopped growing. Now what did you expect? Did you expect it to continue to grow non stop until we were bigger than soccer? Or what?
It's fine that you are fanatical about this game, I am too. But not everyone else is. Or will be. Believe it or not, starcraft is not everyones cup of tea. We're not dying. We're still the number 2 esport.
You people are just going crazy. Yea sure, blizzard is to "blame" for some of this. They could have implemented stuff to cater to more casuals, but that would only do so much more anyway. Starcraft isn't a casual game. It's a hardcore game and there's no reason for anyone to play it unless they really like it and are wanting to challenge themselves. I'm fine with that. Why aren't any of you? Because some of us read this blog http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=287965Because some of us believe Starcraft should be a #1 esports and not anything less. Because some of us believe that sc2 has an obligation to live up to the standards that its predecessor set. so be big in one small country and practically unknown every where else? hasnt SC2 already surpassed BW at least in amount of people watching it? Compared to BW's prime? Not even close. so korea alone managed to have more viewers then Korea + the rest of the world?
Korea + China + CIS.
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On October 22 2012 12:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
the desktop PC is being used less and less each year.
females will never play SC2 in any great numbers.
people thinking SC2 or any RTS will "sweep the nation" are incorrect.
strategy video games have always had a hard-core, vocal, loyal, SMALL fan base.
other great strategy titles like M.U.L.E. and C&C also had their day in the sun, but as great as those games are/were the most popular games were things like Pac-man and Super Mario...this trend is not going to change.
casual players who like to play farmville are not going to abandan their chickens and goats so they can blow up a command center with a nuclear bomb.
SC2 is a niche market title that is part of a niche market ( desktop PCs ) that is slowly shrinking in mainstream usage with each passing year.
just enjoy the game for what it is ... as people who loved M.U.L.E. and C&C loved those games.
stop fantasizing the Starcraft2 might somehow become as popular as baseball. ...
and everything should be fine.
in 5 years SC2 will have a small loyal fan base and hacking will be rampant.
if you can't enjoy the game for its merits and "as is" and can only "have fun" if u have in ur mind that this game will start appearing on ESPN then try playing a different game.
Well that escalated quickly *_*
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Most people here are missing the point.
The issue with SC2 is gameplay.
Solve gameplay and all the rest becomes irrelevant.
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EPT
