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On November 05 2012 14:36 Tyree wrote:Show nested quote +SC2 viewership never changed, Destiny just got jealous or intimidated of League of Legends. Big SC2 tournaments always peak around 100-200k or so. Streams are always in the low thousands except some outlying popular streamers. Day9 dailies usually have low thousands, etc... it's always been like that. This is just factually false, the viewership did change. Did you watch TSL3? It had 60-70k viewers, TSL4 did half of that number. Every tournament has seen their numbers decline I dont know what peak tournament you are talking about, because no SC2 tournament has done 200k, or even 100k, at best GSL probably did big numbers when Nada and Boxer played almost a year or so ago. Day9 used to have 20-25k on average, now he has 8-10k. And that is the general point everyone has made and observed, you can disagree with Destiny on how to fix the game and you can dislike him for whatever reason (he has many reasons to be disliked sadly) but you cannot sit there and throw imaginary numbers up in the air (100-200k) and pretend like they are facts. Having Flash is without a doubt a draw and has helped this MLG, the problem is that not every big tournament can get him to play at their tournament. Theres also a dramatic increase of streams and of tournys. The population is more diffuse than in the past. Day9 was never going to hold onto that demographics, his show is goofy and only useful to people in silver or gold league for crying out loud. TSL was overlooked because it was an online tourny, there were plenty of conversations around that time by players who were pretty explicit that they didnt follow or care about it, and neither did I. I dont even know who won, or who came in second, or anything. Yet I watch like four hours of sc2 a day easy.
edit: obviously numbers have dropped but the interpretation of just how much is always devoid of looking at context.
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You can't go by stream numbers right now. All the big streamers were at MLG...
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On November 05 2012 14:36 Tyree wrote:Show nested quote +SC2 viewership never changed, Destiny just got jealous or intimidated of League of Legends. Big SC2 tournaments always peak around 100-200k or so. Streams are always in the low thousands except some outlying popular streamers. Day9 dailies usually have low thousands, etc... it's always been like that. This is just factually false, the viewership did change. Did you watch TSL3? It had 60-70k viewers, TSL4 did half of that number. Every tournament has seen their numbers decline I dont know what peak tournament you are talking about, because no SC2 tournament has done 200k, or even 100k, at best GSL probably did big numbers when Nada and Boxer played almost a year or so ago. Day9 used to have 20-25k on average, now he has 8-10k. And that is the general point everyone has made and observed, you can disagree with Destiny on how to fix the game and you can dislike him for whatever reason (he has many reasons to be disliked sadly) but you cannot sit there and throw imaginary numbers up in the air (100-200k) and pretend like they are facts. Having Flash is without a doubt a draw and has helped this MLG, the problem is that not every big tournament can get him to play at their tournament.
Some of those numbers aren't that imaginary.
MLG had press releases for their 2011 tournaments claiming to have had over 200k concurrent viewers for some of them and at least 100k for others.
NASL peaked at 100k at one point.
WCS Europe peaked at 100k.
Boxer's debut in GSL was said to have over 700k.
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On November 05 2012 14:56 Fueled wrote:
You can't go by stream numbers last night and today. All the big streamers were at MLG...
your point is invalid all the big streamers for lol also were at mlg your point is?
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SC2 had more viewers at MLG than LoL did. Sooo the point is were different scenes with differing amounts of attention/focus paid to particular tournys vis a vi stream alternatives? Not to mention a smaller pool of potential streamers in general means that if a few key players leave and cant stream, your left with Fitzy aaaaand no one else.
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On November 05 2012 14:58 Esorydal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 14:56 Fueled wrote:
You can't go by stream numbers last night and today. All the big streamers were at MLG... your point is invalid all the big streamers for lol also were at mlg your point is?
not all
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This is a baby crying because he lost his dummy/pacifier. I don't want to be lectured on basic marketing.
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On November 05 2012 15:00 whatevername wrote:
SC2 had more viewers at MLG than LoL did. Sooo the point is were different scenes with differing amounts of attention/focus paid to particular tournys vis a vi stream alternatives? Not to mention a smaller pool of potential streamers in general means that if a few key players leave and cant stream, your left with Fitzy aaaaand no one else.
you mustve been watching something else cause league was at over 100k views while sc2 was barely even hiting 50k at its best hyped matches.
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On November 05 2012 14:58 Esorydal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 14:56 Fueled wrote:
You can't go by stream numbers last night and today. All the big streamers were at MLG... your point is invalid all the big streamers for lol also were at mlg your point is?
not all
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On November 05 2012 15:03 Esorydal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 15:00 whatevername wrote:
SC2 had more viewers at MLG than LoL did. Sooo the point is were different scenes with differing amounts of attention/focus paid to particular tournys vis a vi stream alternatives? Not to mention a smaller pool of potential streamers in general means that if a few key players leave and cant stream, your left with Fitzy aaaaand no one else. you mustve been watching something else cause league was at over 100k views while sc2 was barely even hiting 50k at its best hyped matches.
it was 150K+ for LoL and 95K+ for SC2 if you count both streams combined
75K+ (Naniwa vs Flash) if you count only 1 SC2 stream
Esorydal might also be talking about live audience which definitely matters to MLG
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On November 05 2012 15:03 Esorydal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 15:00 whatevername wrote:
SC2 had more viewers at MLG than LoL did. Sooo the point is were different scenes with differing amounts of attention/focus paid to particular tournys vis a vi stream alternatives? Not to mention a smaller pool of potential streamers in general means that if a few key players leave and cant stream, your left with Fitzy aaaaand no one else. you mustve been watching something else cause league was at over 100k views while sc2 was barely even hiting 50k at its best hyped matches.
Stream 1 had 85k and Stream 2 had 21k during the Flash vs Life series. Don't go around spreading these lies of "hitting 50k at its best hyped matches".
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outside of the technical issues on day 1, MLG seemed to have been pretty successful. Especially since it was run at a weird time for the Europeans. Some foreigners were impressive, Scarlet crushing Bomber and apparently an epic game against Hero, Naniwa almost eliminating Flash and thus instantly regaining credibility after that crap run he had for most of this year, Flash having moments of brilliance that foreshadow the possibility of great things to come and Life proving that he isnt just some rando who got lucky that MVP had a major brain fart in Game 7 of the GSL.
So I guess Ill again subscribe to those people advocating that this is just Destiny crying about his declining viewership, something that directly affects his bottom line. He and the rest of the lower-tier pros have definitely been left behind by the game and quite frankly if they can find better money somewhere else they should move onto those greener pastures. Certainly the Koreans arent letting up and as the MLG shows, unless you are one of a relatively rare number of foreign players who can bang with Koreans your only hope for real money is through foreigner-only tournaments. Or getting a job with a very small number of cash rich Western teams that tolerate relatively so-so performances from their non-Korean players.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tbi7A.jpg)
starcrafts dieing deal with the facts and try to make the game better instead of denying it.
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On November 05 2012 16:44 Esorydal wrote:starcrafts dieing deal with the facts and try to make the game better instead of denying it.
Tell me that you want to watch any of the streamers who are on right at this very instant. Go on, please.
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You have to admit most of the MLG ZvX games were frustrating to watch.
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On November 05 2012 16:44 Esorydal wrote:starcrafts dieing deal with the facts and try to make the game better instead of denying it.
So your fact is that viewers drop right after 3 day epic event streamed every waking hour of this market?
I would suggest you dealing with your schizophrenia, but I guess that is not a good advice.
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On November 05 2012 16:44 Esorydal wrote:+ Show Spoiler +starcrafts dieing deal with the facts and try to make the game better instead of denying it.
I don't know what twitch.tv you were watching today, but I was watching this one
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/deW4q.png)
maybe your computer got highjacked and you're getting lead to phishing sites, you should do a full sweep bro.
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On November 05 2012 16:44 Esorydal wrote:starcrafts dieing deal with the facts and try to make the game better instead of denying it.
lol, no major streamer is online right now other than dragon but he usually averages about 1000 viewers.
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Shit, Paper Mario had fewer viewers than LoL.. It must be dying too!! Oh, no, MineCraft! What will the world do! Seriously, let this thread die so it can stop cluttering up my SC2.
also /vote to defeature Destiny.
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EPT
