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On November 05 2012 06:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Woooow some of the destiny bashing posts in this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Saying things like "hey look at the mlg stream numbers! obviously destiny wrote this article as a publicity stunt because he's failing at the game!" What the fuck guys? Do you really think that's true? Destiny wrote this article because he is genuinely concerned. And EVEN IF it turns out that he was wrong or overreacting, that is by no means a reason to conclude that he had some dishonest intentions when writing his article. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Realize that you are posting about a real person who has feelings and shit. He may feel distant because you only see him on your screen but I bet none of you would say these things to his face. Settle down please.
The SC2 pros who aren't doing well are always making some kind of excuses. It used to be that the game was volatile and not challenging enough, but that turned out to be completely false. Those BW pros got a pretty big reality check when they couldn't compete at the highest level. Nowadays the popular excuse for themselves is to seek greener(as in $$$) pastures in more popular esports. The complaining is always from these guys who can't win anymore, some of these guys are already making giant QQ posts about HOTS. Sadly, I don't think their opinion have much weight anymore in the grand scheme of things.
If I wanted an opinion on viewership numbers and game health, I'd ask tournament organizers.
If I wanted an opinion on balance, I'd ask a good number of players who consistently make it to top 8 of major tournaments.
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On November 05 2012 06:21 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Woooow some of the destiny bashing posts in this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Saying things like "hey look at the mlg stream numbers! obviously destiny wrote this article as a publicity stunt because he's failing at the game!" What the fuck guys? Do you really think that's true? Destiny wrote this article because he is genuinely concerned. And EVEN IF it turns out that he was wrong or overreacting, that is by no means a reason to conclude that he had some dishonest intentions when writing his article. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Realize that you are posting about a real person who has feelings and shit. He may feel distant because you only see him on your screen but I bet none of you would say these things to his face. Settle down please. The SC2 pros who aren't doing well are always making some kind of excuses. It used to be that the game was volatile and not challenging enough, but that turned out to be completely false. Those BW pros got a pretty big reality check when they couldn't compete at the highest level. Nowadays the popular excuse for themselves is to seek greener(as in $$$) pastures in more popular esports. The complaining is always from these guys who can't win anymore, some of these guys are already making giant QQ posts about HOTS. Sadly, I don't think their opinion have much weight anymore in the grand scheme of things. If I wanted an opinion on viewership numbers and game health, I'd ask tournament organizers. If I wanted an opinion on balance, I'd ask a good number of players who consistently make it to top 8 of major tournaments.
What are you on about? LOL o_O
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Now, can we please stop with all the sky is falling threads?
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On November 05 2012 06:23 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:21 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Woooow some of the destiny bashing posts in this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Saying things like "hey look at the mlg stream numbers! obviously destiny wrote this article as a publicity stunt because he's failing at the game!" What the fuck guys? Do you really think that's true? Destiny wrote this article because he is genuinely concerned. And EVEN IF it turns out that he was wrong or overreacting, that is by no means a reason to conclude that he had some dishonest intentions when writing his article. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Realize that you are posting about a real person who has feelings and shit. He may feel distant because you only see him on your screen but I bet none of you would say these things to his face. Settle down please. The SC2 pros who aren't doing well are always making some kind of excuses. It used to be that the game was volatile and not challenging enough, but that turned out to be completely false. Those BW pros got a pretty big reality check when they couldn't compete at the highest level. Nowadays the popular excuse for themselves is to seek greener(as in $$$) pastures in more popular esports. The complaining is always from these guys who can't win anymore, some of these guys are already making giant QQ posts about HOTS. Sadly, I don't think their opinion have much weight anymore in the grand scheme of things. If I wanted an opinion on viewership numbers and game health, I'd ask tournament organizers. If I wanted an opinion on balance, I'd ask a good number of players who consistently make it to top 8 of major tournaments. What are you on about? LOL o_O
Were you here from the beginning? There were a lot of BW foreigner pros who switched to SC2 and blamed the game for poor results. The forums were filled only with balance QQ or game isn't hard enough/too volatile QQ because of what they were saying.
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On November 05 2012 06:29 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:23 sluggaslamoo wrote:On November 05 2012 06:21 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Woooow some of the destiny bashing posts in this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Saying things like "hey look at the mlg stream numbers! obviously destiny wrote this article as a publicity stunt because he's failing at the game!" What the fuck guys? Do you really think that's true? Destiny wrote this article because he is genuinely concerned. And EVEN IF it turns out that he was wrong or overreacting, that is by no means a reason to conclude that he had some dishonest intentions when writing his article. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Realize that you are posting about a real person who has feelings and shit. He may feel distant because you only see him on your screen but I bet none of you would say these things to his face. Settle down please. The SC2 pros who aren't doing well are always making some kind of excuses. It used to be that the game was volatile and not challenging enough, but that turned out to be completely false. Those BW pros got a pretty big reality check when they couldn't compete at the highest level. Nowadays the popular excuse for themselves is to seek greener(as in $$$) pastures in more popular esports. The complaining is always from these guys who can't win anymore, some of these guys are already making giant QQ posts about HOTS. Sadly, I don't think their opinion have much weight anymore in the grand scheme of things. If I wanted an opinion on viewership numbers and game health, I'd ask tournament organizers. If I wanted an opinion on balance, I'd ask a good number of players who consistently make it to top 8 of major tournaments. What are you on about? LOL o_O Were you here from the beginning? There were a lot of BW foreigner pros who switched to SC2 and blamed the game for poor results. The forums were filled only with balance QQ or game isn't hard enough/too volatile QQ because of what they were saying.
The forums are still filled with balance "QQ" posts... Only thing that changed is TL moderators warn and ban people more now. Asking any pro about balance is retarded. They will always say "my race sucks, and x races is op". You really think that they are any different then your average gamer?
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On November 05 2012 06:36 Urasim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:29 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:23 sluggaslamoo wrote:On November 05 2012 06:21 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Woooow some of the destiny bashing posts in this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Saying things like "hey look at the mlg stream numbers! obviously destiny wrote this article as a publicity stunt because he's failing at the game!" What the fuck guys? Do you really think that's true? Destiny wrote this article because he is genuinely concerned. And EVEN IF it turns out that he was wrong or overreacting, that is by no means a reason to conclude that he had some dishonest intentions when writing his article. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Realize that you are posting about a real person who has feelings and shit. He may feel distant because you only see him on your screen but I bet none of you would say these things to his face. Settle down please. The SC2 pros who aren't doing well are always making some kind of excuses. It used to be that the game was volatile and not challenging enough, but that turned out to be completely false. Those BW pros got a pretty big reality check when they couldn't compete at the highest level. Nowadays the popular excuse for themselves is to seek greener(as in $$$) pastures in more popular esports. The complaining is always from these guys who can't win anymore, some of these guys are already making giant QQ posts about HOTS. Sadly, I don't think their opinion have much weight anymore in the grand scheme of things. If I wanted an opinion on viewership numbers and game health, I'd ask tournament organizers. If I wanted an opinion on balance, I'd ask a good number of players who consistently make it to top 8 of major tournaments. What are you on about? LOL o_O Were you here from the beginning? There were a lot of BW foreigner pros who switched to SC2 and blamed the game for poor results. The forums were filled only with balance QQ or game isn't hard enough/too volatile QQ because of what they were saying. The forums are still filled with balance "QQ" posts... Only thing that changed is TL moderators warn and ban people more now. Asking any pro about balance is retarded. They will always say "my race sucks, and x races is op". You really think that they are any different then your average gamer?
No, they aren't filled with them. Balance complaints exist, but they seldom appear outside of LR threads. Also, that's why I said asking a good number of high level players about balance. Some won't answer honestly, but some others will. Most players and observers will tell you players lost because of bad play or mistakes rather than purely balance. There are those @davidkim tweets that ask for nerfs to the race doing the best things always change.
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On November 05 2012 06:44 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:36 Urasim wrote:On November 05 2012 06:29 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:23 sluggaslamoo wrote:On November 05 2012 06:21 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Woooow some of the destiny bashing posts in this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Saying things like "hey look at the mlg stream numbers! obviously destiny wrote this article as a publicity stunt because he's failing at the game!" What the fuck guys? Do you really think that's true? Destiny wrote this article because he is genuinely concerned. And EVEN IF it turns out that he was wrong or overreacting, that is by no means a reason to conclude that he had some dishonest intentions when writing his article. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Realize that you are posting about a real person who has feelings and shit. He may feel distant because you only see him on your screen but I bet none of you would say these things to his face. Settle down please. The SC2 pros who aren't doing well are always making some kind of excuses. It used to be that the game was volatile and not challenging enough, but that turned out to be completely false. Those BW pros got a pretty big reality check when they couldn't compete at the highest level. Nowadays the popular excuse for themselves is to seek greener(as in $$$) pastures in more popular esports. The complaining is always from these guys who can't win anymore, some of these guys are already making giant QQ posts about HOTS. Sadly, I don't think their opinion have much weight anymore in the grand scheme of things. If I wanted an opinion on viewership numbers and game health, I'd ask tournament organizers. If I wanted an opinion on balance, I'd ask a good number of players who consistently make it to top 8 of major tournaments. What are you on about? LOL o_O Were you here from the beginning? There were a lot of BW foreigner pros who switched to SC2 and blamed the game for poor results. The forums were filled only with balance QQ or game isn't hard enough/too volatile QQ because of what they were saying. The forums are still filled with balance "QQ" posts... Only thing that changed is TL moderators warn and ban people more now. Asking any pro about balance is retarded. They will always say "my race sucks, and x races is op". You really think that they are any different then your average gamer? No, they aren't filled with them. Balance complaints exist, but they seldom appear outside of LR threads. Also, that's why I said asking a good number of high level players about balance. Some won't answer honestly, but some others will. Most players and observers will tell you players lost because of bad play or mistakes rather than purely balance. There are those @davidkim tweets that ask for nerfs to the race doing the best things always change.
I like that you ignored the part where TL mods like to lock down "QQ" posts before they get off the ground... So, arguing with you is pointless when you ignore the obvious facts. Can you point out a single "top 8" pro that has posted a constructive balance thread?
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On November 05 2012 06:49 Urasim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:44 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:36 Urasim wrote:On November 05 2012 06:29 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:23 sluggaslamoo wrote:On November 05 2012 06:21 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Woooow some of the destiny bashing posts in this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Saying things like "hey look at the mlg stream numbers! obviously destiny wrote this article as a publicity stunt because he's failing at the game!" What the fuck guys? Do you really think that's true? Destiny wrote this article because he is genuinely concerned. And EVEN IF it turns out that he was wrong or overreacting, that is by no means a reason to conclude that he had some dishonest intentions when writing his article. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Realize that you are posting about a real person who has feelings and shit. He may feel distant because you only see him on your screen but I bet none of you would say these things to his face. Settle down please. The SC2 pros who aren't doing well are always making some kind of excuses. It used to be that the game was volatile and not challenging enough, but that turned out to be completely false. Those BW pros got a pretty big reality check when they couldn't compete at the highest level. Nowadays the popular excuse for themselves is to seek greener(as in $$$) pastures in more popular esports. The complaining is always from these guys who can't win anymore, some of these guys are already making giant QQ posts about HOTS. Sadly, I don't think their opinion have much weight anymore in the grand scheme of things. If I wanted an opinion on viewership numbers and game health, I'd ask tournament organizers. If I wanted an opinion on balance, I'd ask a good number of players who consistently make it to top 8 of major tournaments. What are you on about? LOL o_O Were you here from the beginning? There were a lot of BW foreigner pros who switched to SC2 and blamed the game for poor results. The forums were filled only with balance QQ or game isn't hard enough/too volatile QQ because of what they were saying. The forums are still filled with balance "QQ" posts... Only thing that changed is TL moderators warn and ban people more now. Asking any pro about balance is retarded. They will always say "my race sucks, and x races is op". You really think that they are any different then your average gamer? No, they aren't filled with them. Balance complaints exist, but they seldom appear outside of LR threads. Also, that's why I said asking a good number of high level players about balance. Some won't answer honestly, but some others will. Most players and observers will tell you players lost because of bad play or mistakes rather than purely balance. There are those @davidkim tweets that ask for nerfs to the race doing the best things always change. I like that you ignored the part where TL mods like to lock down "QQ" posts before they get off the ground... So, arguing with you is pointless when you ignore the obvious facts. Can you point out a single "top 8" pro that has posted a constructive balance thread?
Zzz. TL mods have always warned, banned, and locked for balance QQ. The only fact is that balance QQ has reduced considerably as a result of steady balance patches and more importantly players getting better at playing and figuring the game out. That's what should be obvious.
You're arguing with me? Oh, I thought this was a place for discussion. Arguing is a waste of time.
And no, top level players don't post big threads because they spend their time actually practicing or not concerning themselves with the opinions of the community. You can catch some opinions from them during post game interviews, though.
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On November 05 2012 06:58 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:49 Urasim wrote:On November 05 2012 06:44 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:36 Urasim wrote:On November 05 2012 06:29 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:23 sluggaslamoo wrote:On November 05 2012 06:21 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Woooow some of the destiny bashing posts in this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Saying things like "hey look at the mlg stream numbers! obviously destiny wrote this article as a publicity stunt because he's failing at the game!" What the fuck guys? Do you really think that's true? Destiny wrote this article because he is genuinely concerned. And EVEN IF it turns out that he was wrong or overreacting, that is by no means a reason to conclude that he had some dishonest intentions when writing his article. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Realize that you are posting about a real person who has feelings and shit. He may feel distant because you only see him on your screen but I bet none of you would say these things to his face. Settle down please. The SC2 pros who aren't doing well are always making some kind of excuses. It used to be that the game was volatile and not challenging enough, but that turned out to be completely false. Those BW pros got a pretty big reality check when they couldn't compete at the highest level. Nowadays the popular excuse for themselves is to seek greener(as in $$$) pastures in more popular esports. The complaining is always from these guys who can't win anymore, some of these guys are already making giant QQ posts about HOTS. Sadly, I don't think their opinion have much weight anymore in the grand scheme of things. If I wanted an opinion on viewership numbers and game health, I'd ask tournament organizers. If I wanted an opinion on balance, I'd ask a good number of players who consistently make it to top 8 of major tournaments. What are you on about? LOL o_O Were you here from the beginning? There were a lot of BW foreigner pros who switched to SC2 and blamed the game for poor results. The forums were filled only with balance QQ or game isn't hard enough/too volatile QQ because of what they were saying. The forums are still filled with balance "QQ" posts... Only thing that changed is TL moderators warn and ban people more now. Asking any pro about balance is retarded. They will always say "my race sucks, and x races is op". You really think that they are any different then your average gamer? No, they aren't filled with them. Balance complaints exist, but they seldom appear outside of LR threads. Also, that's why I said asking a good number of high level players about balance. Some won't answer honestly, but some others will. Most players and observers will tell you players lost because of bad play or mistakes rather than purely balance. There are those @davidkim tweets that ask for nerfs to the race doing the best things always change. I like that you ignored the part where TL mods like to lock down "QQ" posts before they get off the ground... So, arguing with you is pointless when you ignore the obvious facts. Can you point out a single "top 8" pro that has posted a constructive balance thread? Zzz. TL mods have always warned, banned, and locked for balance QQ. The only fact is that balance QQ has reduced considerably as a result of steady balance patches and more importantly players getting better at playing and figuring the game out. That's what should be obvious. You're arguing with me? Oh, I thought this was a place for discussion. Arguing is a waste of time. And no, top level players don't post big threads because they spend their time actually practicing or not concerning themselves with the opinions of the community. You can catch some opinions from them during post game interviews, though.
So, you can't actually provide any instance of a "top 8" pro where they state their thoughts on balance for this game. Every pro that I have see in interviews always say "lost because x race is too strong", "I played poorly", "opponent played poorly", or they joke about their race being overpowered. It's always the mid tier pros that provide constructive balance posts.
Also, less "QQ" posts is a direct result of people knowing that TL mods ban people who post them.
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Insert the one fix all to all situations: Flash
Instantly rivals the LoL stream numbers (still lol is more) w/o being FTP
Activision is still a shit company that makes shit games though.
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On November 05 2012 07:07 Urasim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:58 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:49 Urasim wrote:On November 05 2012 06:44 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:36 Urasim wrote:On November 05 2012 06:29 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:23 sluggaslamoo wrote:On November 05 2012 06:21 Gentso wrote:On November 05 2012 06:04 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Woooow some of the destiny bashing posts in this thread are absolutely ridiculous. Saying things like "hey look at the mlg stream numbers! obviously destiny wrote this article as a publicity stunt because he's failing at the game!" What the fuck guys? Do you really think that's true? Destiny wrote this article because he is genuinely concerned. And EVEN IF it turns out that he was wrong or overreacting, that is by no means a reason to conclude that he had some dishonest intentions when writing his article. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. Realize that you are posting about a real person who has feelings and shit. He may feel distant because you only see him on your screen but I bet none of you would say these things to his face. Settle down please. The SC2 pros who aren't doing well are always making some kind of excuses. It used to be that the game was volatile and not challenging enough, but that turned out to be completely false. Those BW pros got a pretty big reality check when they couldn't compete at the highest level. Nowadays the popular excuse for themselves is to seek greener(as in $$$) pastures in more popular esports. The complaining is always from these guys who can't win anymore, some of these guys are already making giant QQ posts about HOTS. Sadly, I don't think their opinion have much weight anymore in the grand scheme of things. If I wanted an opinion on viewership numbers and game health, I'd ask tournament organizers. If I wanted an opinion on balance, I'd ask a good number of players who consistently make it to top 8 of major tournaments. What are you on about? LOL o_O Were you here from the beginning? There were a lot of BW foreigner pros who switched to SC2 and blamed the game for poor results. The forums were filled only with balance QQ or game isn't hard enough/too volatile QQ because of what they were saying. The forums are still filled with balance "QQ" posts... Only thing that changed is TL moderators warn and ban people more now. Asking any pro about balance is retarded. They will always say "my race sucks, and x races is op". You really think that they are any different then your average gamer? No, they aren't filled with them. Balance complaints exist, but they seldom appear outside of LR threads. Also, that's why I said asking a good number of high level players about balance. Some won't answer honestly, but some others will. Most players and observers will tell you players lost because of bad play or mistakes rather than purely balance. There are those @davidkim tweets that ask for nerfs to the race doing the best things always change. I like that you ignored the part where TL mods like to lock down "QQ" posts before they get off the ground... So, arguing with you is pointless when you ignore the obvious facts. Can you point out a single "top 8" pro that has posted a constructive balance thread? Zzz. TL mods have always warned, banned, and locked for balance QQ. The only fact is that balance QQ has reduced considerably as a result of steady balance patches and more importantly players getting better at playing and figuring the game out. That's what should be obvious. You're arguing with me? Oh, I thought this was a place for discussion. Arguing is a waste of time. And no, top level players don't post big threads because they spend their time actually practicing or not concerning themselves with the opinions of the community. You can catch some opinions from them during post game interviews, though. So, you can't actually provide any instance of a "top 8" pro where they state their thoughts on balance for this game. Every pro that I have see in interviews always say "lost because x race is too strong", "I played poorly", "opponent played poorly", or they joke about their race being overpowered. It's always the mid tier pros that provide constructive balance posts. Also, less "QQ" posts is a direct result of people knowing that TL mods ban people who post them.
This is my last post directed towards you because any more dialogue with you will be pointless. The thread is getting too derailed.
As I said, top players aren't concerned with communities opinions on balance. I'm sure people have asked their opinion on balance in interviews, but that's rare because by now people realize that the game is nearly balanced. Don't listen to mid-tier pros like gospel. If they're making threads in regards to balance on Team Liquid it's because their opinion most likely isn't valuable and they're venting. Blizzard is in direct dialogue with pros to balance WOL and HOTS, they've said it multiple times.
To refute your stance on balance QQ... balance discussions have significantly decreased over the years in other places without moderation such as chat channels and reddit. Furthermore, discussing balance does't automatically mean ban here. There used to be tons of good discussions on balance, and you can still do it if you want. You just to have to be constructive. TL mods ban posts like, "wow, nerf zerg aleady." or "lol infestors". But guess what, I look at the front page and don't see any threads on balance. People understand the game by now, and you can see how and why people are winning or losing.
PM me if you have something to say in reply, otherwise the discussion should about SC2 viewership numbers.
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PM me if you have something to say in reply, otherwise the discussion should about SC2 viewership numbers.
Okay
Biggest Starcraft2 tournament of the year: 100,000 concurrent viewers. (Dunno the unique viewer numbers)
Biggest League of Legends tournament of the year: 1,154,000 concurrent viewers (not counting any TV numbers). Over eight million unique viewers, and over two million people watching it on TV in Korea and China.
MLG Fall Championship 2012 finals: 70,000 viewers. Let's hope that WCS World Championship pulls better numbers!
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Just found this article after not being here for months, and I must say that Destiny is correct. Starcraft 1 for me was 8-player FFAs and continental 4v4s (each team started on their own massive island, their continent, so to speak). The first time I learned about Brood War's Korean scene was in GameReplays.org, when I was playing C&C 3. If I recall correctly, they had just added a Starcraft section, and I was quite surprised to see a "dead" game doing so well.
Anyway, I mostly play team games now: Team Fortress 2, Tribes: Ascend, etc. These games have high skill ceilings but are not so stressful because you can rely on the other 11 or 15 players to cover your weaknesses. I've been thinking of playing DotA 2 for my RTS fix. It's a lot less lonely than Starcraft 2, and it's made by Valve. Two good things in my book.
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I am pretty sure viewership number has been dropping everywhere, from the amount of players' stream to tournaments, even some of the biggest tournaments there are
Had been following GSL threads for almost a year and a half already and even the thread has less pages
I mean it's not too surprising to see numbers are dropping, more casual players stop playing and watch less starcraft.
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Sc2 and LoL are totally different games.
Everybody is able to play Lol (well even if you are shitty you have the illusion you acutally might be a good player) and a lot of players are thinking that one day the might be in a really big team and earn a lot of money.
In sc2 you know that you are NOT a good player and you know that the "pros" are so much better than you. You know that you will never match their mechanics nor their insight.
Still sc2 is really nice to watch the problem is you are not that well connected with the game if you are not playing it. But you cant fix that, sc2 is sc2 and Lol is Lol. Deal with it.
But when you think of a progamer you think of a RTSplayer with super high APM and strategy knowledge or you think of a firstpersonshooter with unhuman reactiontime and aiming skills but you dont think of a LoL player that controls one hero at a time.
I belive that sooner or later people will realise this and then sc2 will reach its full glory.
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SC2 viewership never changed, Destiny just got jealous or intimidated of League of Legends. Big SC2 tournaments always peak around 100-200k or so. Streams are always in the low thousands except some outlying popular streamers. Day9 dailies usually have low thousands, etc... it's always been like that.
This is just factually false, the viewership did change. Did you watch TSL3? It had 60-70k viewers, TSL4 did half of that number. Every tournament has seen their numbers decline
I dont know what peak tournament you are talking about, because no SC2 tournament has done 200k, or even 100k, at best GSL probably did big numbers when Nada and Boxer played almost a year or so ago.
Day9 used to have 20-25k on average, now he has 8-10k.
And that is the general point everyone has made and observed, you can disagree with Destiny on how to fix the game and you can dislike him for whatever reason (he has many reasons to be disliked sadly) but you cannot sit there and throw imaginary numbers up in the air (100-200k) and pretend like they are facts.
Having Flash is without a doubt a draw and has helped this MLG, the problem is that not every big tournament can get him to play at their tournament.
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On November 05 2012 14:36 Tyree wrote:Show nested quote +SC2 viewership never changed, Destiny just got jealous or intimidated of League of Legends. Big SC2 tournaments always peak around 100-200k or so. Streams are always in the low thousands except some outlying popular streamers. Day9 dailies usually have low thousands, etc... it's always been like that. This is just factually false, the viewership did change. Did you watch TSL3? It had 60-70k viewers, TSL4 did half of that number. Every tournament has seen their numbers decline I dont know what peak tournament you are talking about, because no SC2 tournament has done 200k, or even 100k, at best GSL probably did big numbers when Nada and Boxer played almost a year or so ago. Day9 used to have 20-25k on average, now he has 8-10k. And that is the general point everyone has made and observed, you can disagree with Destiny on how to fix the game and you can dislike him for whatever reason (he has many reasons to be disliked sadly) but you cannot sit there and throw imaginary numbers up in the air (100-200k) and pretend like they are facts. Having Flash is without a doubt a draw and has helped this MLG, the problem is that not every big tournament can get him to play at their tournament.
I don't know about Day[9] ever averaging 25K a night for any long length of time, but he still does incredibly well on a daily basis.
And the number of people watching SC2 streams has not dwindled. The reason that you'll see fewer people watching any single stream (e.g. Day[9]) is because there is far more stuff being offered now than at the beginning of SC2. Wheat does a good job of driving this point home. Every night there are tons of tournaments and streamers on (NASL, IPL, EGMCSL, Day[9], a dozen featured streams, etc. etc.) and between all of these, you still get the same (surely more) magic number of 20-30K viewers per night. They're no longer *all* watching Day[9] because there's more variety now. There's more spread. Yes, there will be natural fluctuations, but there's still tons of interest in the scene.
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On November 05 2012 08:26 Urasim wrote:Show nested quote +PM me if you have something to say in reply, otherwise the discussion should about SC2 viewership numbers. Okay Biggest Starcraft2 tournament of the year: 100,000 concurrent viewers. (Dunno the unique viewer numbers) Biggest League of Legends tournament of the year: 1,154,000 concurrent viewers (not counting any TV numbers). Over eight million unique viewers, and over two million people watching it on TV in Korea and China. MLG Fall Championship 2012 finals: 70,000 viewers. Let's hope that WCS World Championship pulls better numbers!
100K for WCS WC would be good
the thing people need to consider is audience base
LoL audience base is massive since according to Riot's released stats there are millions playing LoL each day
SC2's daily player base is much much smaller than that
if we were to look at the ratios of stream #s to active player base, SC2 would hold up extremely well against LoL
people just focus on who has the biggest number though since its so obvious to digets
SC2 is also an anomaly in that a lot of its e-sports audience base never played or no longer actively plays SC2. this is where Destiny brings up an extremely valid point of Blizzard needing to better cater (primarily custom UMS games) to casuals to keep them playing SC2 since maintaining and growing a non-playing e-sports audience isn't a good long term look.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tpglv.jpg)
thats right now at 9:54 pm
this is after mlg where all the best streamers for lol are at.
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EPT
