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On September 14 2012 01:26 Zim23 wrote:What an underhanded way to put it. This statement doesn't refute that you at first REFUSED to pay the guy back and then after being threatened offered to refund the cash.
Yeah, this is what just makes me furious. The fact that they offered to pay only AFTER fuzer decided to go public is the most disgusting thing.
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On September 14 2012 01:26 Stropheum wrote:
I don't understand why this thread is so poorly recieved. It seems like Fuzer had all the time in the world to revise his contract and only waited until he was out of time to actually ask for a consultation. On top of that, he didn't seem to understand any of the terms he was agreeing to or the fact that he was paying by month BECAUSE he hadn't yet signed a contract agreeing to the flat fee, and his experience prior to that was actually designed as more of a tour/flavor of the experience to help sway his decision in a more timely manner (which it clearly didn't)
All for ministry of win on this one. You guys don't need your reputation tarnished over this. People need to make sure they take care of their shit before sitting down to play every day.
I don't quite understand why they didn't set the deadline to the end of the first month but took the second payment instead and kicked him halfway through the second month? If he paid/they allowed him to pay for the second month kick him after the second month if he still stalls over the contract.
And lol @kitten pictures, what the hell. :/
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Cats are loyal dammit TT1
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On September 14 2012 01:28 ROOTT1 wrote:lol felines are so noobie, theyre too unloyal this is where its at ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VxvGY.jpg)
Couldn't agree more.
On a serious note, we really need to know whether or not the refund was offered before or after the first leak of the story, this is a crucial point.
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On September 14 2012 01:28 Musicus wrote:
Is it true you only offered the refund once Fuzer threatened to inform the public?
This is true, dates and chat logs confirm the timing of Fuzer's post on Facebook in coordination with the Skype conversation.
So much I want to say on this issue but I will bite my tongue for many a reason.
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On September 14 2012 01:26 Zim23 wrote:What an underhanded way to put it. This statement doesn't refute that you at first REFUSED to pay the guy back and then after being threatened offered to refund the cash.
This.
Everything else sounds good though. Lesson learned. If not, pitchforks, sponsor-emails....you know the drill. 
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I like puppies. Either I get a picture of a super cute puppy or you can make sure I will write to some sponsors. I give you 20 Minutes!
Cute Puppy! I am pleased :D
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Why would you put streaming requirements in the contract if you don't care if they do it or not? It sounds like the only reason you put anything about streaming in the contract was so you would be guaranteed part of the money if they do decide to do it.
still super shady
edit:spelling
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"Hey lets use KITTENS as a distraction!"
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I like this statement. I think it was the right thing to say and addressed the issue, explained what had occurred and admitted that mistakes had been made, in particular the negotiation with Fuzer. If only this statement had been the one issued yesterday by MoW, then a lot of angst and drama could have been avoided. Life is a learning experience for us all. Identifying and acknowledging mistakes is important in order to avoid repeating them moving forward.
Given your statement and the testimony by players such as Snute who have experienced the MoW House, I feel that MoW House is actually very good for the Foreign SC2 scene and thus has my support in it's efforts to improve the players skills. Fuzer had an issue but hopefully that can now be resolved and people can move on. GL HF
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This situation could have been avoided so easily.. this is lack of experience!
I hope you will never have any more problems in the future, don't do partys, pay Fuzer, revise the food situation!
I can forgive but i won't forget..
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Well, little hic'ups like this are bound to happen. The number of people on the whole continent with proper experience in handling e-sports ventures can be counted on the fingers of one or two hands.
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As humans we all make mistakes, the important thing is that we learn from them. Also as humans, we all deserve a second chance, this goes for both the organisation and player involved.
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i didn't read all
but putting kitty pics in your statement make me wanna puke.
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Ministry of Win seems to just be immature all over, making the time at the house the player's responsibility...Making the players having to worry about paying the house for rent each month instead of focusing purely on the game of what a gaming house should be. I dunno, I just don't like the idea of the place but I can see why others would like to stay at it...If they use healthier food that is though.
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On September 14 2012 01:31 SpiZe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 01:28 ROOTT1 wrote:lol felines are so noobie, theyre too unloyal this is where its at Couldn't agree more. On a serious note, we really need to know whether or not the refund was offered before or after the first leak of the story, this is a crucial point.
"Back in finland, time to start writing a story how MoW house stealed my money " - Fuzersc2 facebook somewhere around 4PM EEST. The Skype log shows how MoW asked for Fuzer's account number at 5:15PM EEST.
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The pictures are an insult to the whole community.
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2. Ministry of Win does not enforce on players the amount of hours they have to stream. It is a part of a business contract and both parties negotiate an agreement. We understand that players have come to the house for the sole purpose of perfecting their skills and thus we do not exact the agreed hours to the last detail. Most players view streaming as a key income source for themselves and so we give them the best opportunity to profit from it. Thanks to the strategic partnership between the Ministry of Win and Twitch.tv the CPM ratio is superior to that of an individual streaming on one’s own. Furthermore the players that had no Twitch.tv partnership prior to joining the house obtain a possibility to start monetizing their exposure instantly omitting the regular Twitch.tv partnership acquireing process.
If you don't enforce it, why do you put it in the business contract, it seems very detailed in the contract. Honestly speaking Fuzer game pretty hard evidence with his Skype logs and all you guys have been doing is derailing the accusations.
I find it so annoying how people are getting misled and defending them on their 'half-truths'. WE OFFERED HIM A FULL REFUND WHICH HE DECLINED, Fuzer already showed skype logs that prove that the 'Boss' didn't want to give him his money back, until he threatened to go public.
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Samuli refused to sign the agreed contract containing his amendments and requested another consultation period.
This has been received as a stalling tactics and brought unnecessary and unprofessional tension to the conversation .
lol what? The guy already paid you, how could taking time to make sure he fully understood the contract be stalling?
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I think FXOBoss's post in the other thread, wherever it is, brings up a lot of good points:
1) You should not BOTH charge people to live there AND charge them a portion of their streaming, it should be either-or.
2) You should refund Fuzer's partial payment regardless of his "screw you i'm going public" statements, its the only way to run a business.
3) As you yourself said, never do anything without a signed contract
His entire post, quoted from the other thread:
On September 13 2012 12:29 FXOBoSs wrote:
I didn't read all the posts. But just going to go over a few things in this situation.
Firstly, a 10 yr non competition clause would never be able to be executed. Its kind of a joke really. 2 years is hard enough to enforce. Non comp, is standard but usually only is enforced if you steal someones clients.
Preventing someone from building a game house? Did you invent the gaming house mentality? Brb, sending the Koreans to sue you for stealing their ideas.. Please note I am being sarcastic.
The contract is a typical eastern european contract (no racism emplied). Its a power culture, and the contract is there to show power. Its normal, hell I do business there and I would probably have a contract similar (not so gross) that shows my power over the project.
The problem that MoW has failed to see is that they are not catering to polish people, but rather the world is seeing them. I know it doesn't sound exactly right, but their contracts should be written under US law. In an American way. Why? Because the majority of the viewers and players will be able to abide by that and will understand it better and won't take it as threatening. Cultural mistake there.
The cost of staying there + the streaming income. Another big joke. IF you are going to take income from someone you don't charge them margin on the cost to live there imo. Because your money is made from the fact they are streaming for you. 3-5 hours is do-able, but it doesn't achieve what the house was hyping itself up to be. So pick a side. Where are you going to make the money? From the stream? Or from the house? Double dipping something like that is kinda lame. I understand some people might be staying for free, so streaming income is probably the best option. The cost of things in poland already show you will turn a profit from the project regardless over time.
The other issue is, is it going to become a giant frat house with that much streaming going on? Correct answer, yes. Taking 5 hours out of a practice schedule in a day is one of the most insanely terrible things to do to someone who is trying to get better by gaming. Seriously, streaming saps energy (I stream to 20 viewers and by the end of it [3hours] I am always exhausted). So again, you have to pick a side, do you want to be a giant frat house that makes kids think everyone is a super star, or do you want people to become superstars by winning touranments?
From what I see, a whole bunch of stuff was really not planned or thought about before launching. Possibly the rush to make money was there I'm not sure. But a complete revamp of the model needs to occur immediately now, incase someone is fooled into thinking they will actually get better in a streaming environment.
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EPT
