• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:07
CET 11:07
KST 19:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - RO16 Preview3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational12SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)22Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 [Short Story] The Last GSL
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
Fantasy's Q&A video [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1645 users

Analysis of Koreans vs non-Koreans at major events - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
September 07 2012 05:02 GMT
#41
On September 07 2012 13:35 DRob wrote:
Show nested quote +
The only thing I find interesting is why foreigner had a big increase in win rate @ 2012 Q2. Everything else is to be expected


That is a very good question. Looking at the Q2 events which everyone can do on the article, there isn't a particular event that stood out. Non-Koreans just did better at most all of the Q2 events. Like a 34% match win rate in MLG Spring Championship vs. a 22% match win rate at MLG Summer Championship. GSL also went pretty well for non-Koreans v. Koreans with a 5-5 record from this period.

As a percentage of the total there is a lot more non-Korean Zergs so Q2 could also be impacted by strong Zergs across the board (Korean or not) after the Queen patch. And that effect has declined as Zergs have come back down to a more balanced performance range. That is just a theory.

Try adding error bars, that single quarter doesn't necessarily mean anything more than chance.
ElephantBaby
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1365 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 05:17:45
September 07 2012 05:11 GMT
#42
On September 07 2012 10:03 Al Bundy wrote:
In conclusion: Koreans own white dudes. Will they keep owing white dudes in the future? Some people say that HotS then LotV will help balancing the winrates (something to do with resetting the metagame) but, I'm not holding my breath tbh.


Al Bundy owns all human beings.
FakeDeath
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia6060 Posts
September 07 2012 05:19 GMT
#43
Conclusion from the graph:

Korean own foreigners.
Play your best
ElephantBaby
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1365 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 05:40:58
September 07 2012 05:32 GMT
#44
On September 07 2012 10:17 Hazuc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 10:14 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote:
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.


No one knows who the top 32 Koreans are.


What I'm trying to say is that most koreans playing in foreign tournaments are Code S level which is not really fair for comparisons.


The graphs are not meant to show the percentage, rather the trend. The trend is definitely legit.
nebula.
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Sweden1431 Posts
September 07 2012 06:08 GMT
#45
this changes EVERYTHING
I miss you July ~~~ I was in PonyTales #7 wooho!
Greggle
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1131 Posts
September 07 2012 06:13 GMT
#46
On September 07 2012 10:14 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote:
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.


No one knows who the top 32 Koreans are.


Code S is a damn good representation of the top 32 Koreans. Code S is so competitive at this point that really only the absolute best at any given time make it there with very few exceptions.
Life is too short to take it seriously.
Taku
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada2036 Posts
September 07 2012 06:16 GMT
#47
Man, and all that hype about foreigners being competitive from when the game first came out...
When SC2 came for BW, I cried. Now LoL/Dota2 comes for SC2, and I laugh. \o/
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
September 07 2012 06:24 GMT
#48
We all knew Koreans were favored vs foreigners. Now we know how much!
Bora Pain minha porra!
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
September 07 2012 06:36 GMT
#49
It's the quantity of quality. For every top-tier foreigner (late 2010/early 2011 Jinro, mid 2011 to early 2012 Huk, Stephano, etc), there are probably more than 50 Koreans at a similar level.

SC2 is volatile as hell, which is why even the best players cannot win every tournament. But when you see it as Korea vs the World, the deck is always in favor of Korea because they have more top level players. Guys like Stephano can hold with perhaps even the best of the Koreans, but not all the time.

Let's use Stephano and MLG as an example: Say Stephano has a 10% chance of winning MLG. That's great, but there are few foreigners who can perform at his level, and fewer who can do so consistently (if any, and hell, even Stephano isn't totally consistent either. There are times when he flops).

But there are likely 10 or so Koreans nowadays at MLGs that have a similar chance of winning as Stephano. Even if one of them is eliminated, another Korean takes up the banner and races for the finals, and should he fall, yet another Korean can go for the gold, and so on.

TL;DR We have Code S level foreigners and players that can compete with the best. It's just that in terms of good players, Korea has us beat big-time in quantity.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
September 07 2012 06:46 GMT
#50
For the first 12 months, foreigners had a chance. But then their general laziness and sloth got in the way and outside of a few genuinely talented people the rest stagnated while Koreans produced more and more talent.
saynomore
Profile Joined October 2011
Norway149 Posts
September 07 2012 06:50 GMT
#51
In these days and ages it would be good to separate americans from europeans imo.
I dont like you
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
September 07 2012 06:57 GMT
#52
On September 07 2012 15:46 Sub40APM wrote:
For the first 12 months, foreigners had a chance. But then their general laziness and sloth got in the way and outside of a few genuinely talented people the rest stagnated while Koreans produced more and more talent.


Yep, just as everyone predicted would happen :D
zerino
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark253 Posts
September 07 2012 07:05 GMT
#53
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote:
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.


exactly what i was thinking, if they count mlg qualifier bracket they will have lots of matches vs master- mid gm US server Free wins before they even get to the best foreigneer players. While its only those koreans that actually think its worth investing time and money that come to fight the foreigneers.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
September 07 2012 07:10 GMT
#54
On September 07 2012 16:05 zerino wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote:
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.


exactly what i was thinking, if they count mlg qualifier bracket they will have lots of matches vs master- mid gm US server Free wins before they even get to the best foreigneer players. While its only those koreans that actually think its worth investing time and money that come to fight the foreigneers.


You haven't really read the op, except to look at the shiny pictures, have you?
PuPu
Profile Joined September 2011
Finland120 Posts
September 07 2012 07:14 GMT
#55
On September 07 2012 09:59 Fionn wrote:
So you're telling me that Koreans, those folk from Asia, are better than everyone else?

Shit. Just. Got. Serious.


:D
"Mmm, It's nice"
chenchen
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1136 Posts
September 07 2012 07:23 GMT
#56
To all the people saying that only good Koreans fly abroad and play in foreign tournaments . . . . look at any big foreign tournament with heavy Korean participation and you can find tons and tons and tons of Koreans that would never dream of touching Code S. And yet they are more than capable enough of stomping through foreigners in online qualifiers.
powerade = dragoon blood
Flamingo777
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1190 Posts
September 07 2012 07:23 GMT
#57
Very interesting that the gap continues to increase between foreigner and Korean skill.
johnny123
Profile Joined February 2012
521 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-08 14:27:01
September 08 2012 14:07 GMT
#58
On September 07 2012 15:46 Sub40APM wrote:
For the first 12 months, foreigners had a chance. But then their general laziness and sloth got in the way and outside of a few genuinely talented people the rest stagnated while Koreans produced more and more talent.



Or, one could say the foreigners only stood a chance because the game was not figured out yet for the most part ... The same will be expected of hots, the koreans/foreigners might perform similar at the start, but 5 or so months after its release expect the gap to start widening alot. And with kespa in the scene now, Its only now going to get really fierce.

Favorite players,Stephano/MVP/Nestea/Gumiho/Life/Jaedong/MMA
Fenrax
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States5018 Posts
September 08 2012 14:17 GMT
#59
Wow, fuck these haters. Seriously. AMAZING work bro. Thanks for that. Very very insightful.
zanga
Profile Joined September 2011
659 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-08 14:25:40
September 08 2012 14:25 GMT
#60
Cool!

I love data, number crunching and graphs . We all knew that Korea still holds the leading edge of SC2, but numbers are always good to observe for a closer look.

Thanks for collecting and presenting it all!
(:
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
Rongyi Cup S3 - Group C
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 142
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 4782
Sea 668
Larva 556
Hyuk 444
BeSt 406
actioN 277
GuemChi 204
Zeus 148
Jaedong 132
sorry 115
[ Show more ]
Killer 104
Rush 98
Pusan 82
Mini 79
Sharp 56
Hm[arnc] 45
Shuttle 43
Mind 38
soO 32
GoRush 19
Last 18
Noble 11
Mong 9
JulyZerg 7
ZerO 5
Dota 2
Fuzer 72
XcaliburYe1
League of Legends
C9.Mang0426
Counter-Strike
oskar147
zeus85
edward75
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King92
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor90
Other Games
gofns21334
singsing1333
Happy418
mouzStarbuck280
XaKoH 165
ZerO(Twitch)0
Organizations
StarCraft 2
CranKy Ducklings130
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 110
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1783
Upcoming Events
RongYI Cup
53m
Maru vs Cyan
Solar vs Krystianer
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1h 53m
BSL 21
4h 53m
Replay Cast
13h 53m
Wardi Open
1d 3h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 6h
OSC
1d 13h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W5
OSC Championship Season 13
Tektek Cup #1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.