• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:30
CEST 21:30
KST 04:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End6Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!43Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO Rush's Odyssey Controversy [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group A Small VOD Thread 2.0 CSLAN 4 is Coming! ASL Season 22 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7483 users

Analysis of Koreans vs non-Koreans at major events - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
September 07 2012 05:02 GMT
#41
On September 07 2012 13:35 DRob wrote:
Show nested quote +
The only thing I find interesting is why foreigner had a big increase in win rate @ 2012 Q2. Everything else is to be expected


That is a very good question. Looking at the Q2 events which everyone can do on the article, there isn't a particular event that stood out. Non-Koreans just did better at most all of the Q2 events. Like a 34% match win rate in MLG Spring Championship vs. a 22% match win rate at MLG Summer Championship. GSL also went pretty well for non-Koreans v. Koreans with a 5-5 record from this period.

As a percentage of the total there is a lot more non-Korean Zergs so Q2 could also be impacted by strong Zergs across the board (Korean or not) after the Queen patch. And that effect has declined as Zergs have come back down to a more balanced performance range. That is just a theory.

Try adding error bars, that single quarter doesn't necessarily mean anything more than chance.
ElephantBaby
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1365 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 05:17:45
September 07 2012 05:11 GMT
#42
On September 07 2012 10:03 Al Bundy wrote:
In conclusion: Koreans own white dudes. Will they keep owing white dudes in the future? Some people say that HotS then LotV will help balancing the winrates (something to do with resetting the metagame) but, I'm not holding my breath tbh.


Al Bundy owns all human beings.
FakeDeath
Profile Joined January 2011
Malaysia6060 Posts
September 07 2012 05:19 GMT
#43
Conclusion from the graph:

Korean own foreigners.
Play your best
ElephantBaby
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1365 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 05:40:58
September 07 2012 05:32 GMT
#44
On September 07 2012 10:17 Hazuc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 10:14 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote:
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.


No one knows who the top 32 Koreans are.


What I'm trying to say is that most koreans playing in foreign tournaments are Code S level which is not really fair for comparisons.


The graphs are not meant to show the percentage, rather the trend. The trend is definitely legit.
nebula.
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Sweden1431 Posts
September 07 2012 06:08 GMT
#45
this changes EVERYTHING
I miss you July ~~~ I was in PonyTales #7 wooho!
Greggle
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1131 Posts
September 07 2012 06:13 GMT
#46
On September 07 2012 10:14 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote:
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.


No one knows who the top 32 Koreans are.


Code S is a damn good representation of the top 32 Koreans. Code S is so competitive at this point that really only the absolute best at any given time make it there with very few exceptions.
Life is too short to take it seriously.
Taku
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada2036 Posts
September 07 2012 06:16 GMT
#47
Man, and all that hype about foreigners being competitive from when the game first came out...
When SC2 came for BW, I cried. Now LoL/Dota2 comes for SC2, and I laugh. \o/
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
September 07 2012 06:24 GMT
#48
We all knew Koreans were favored vs foreigners. Now we know how much!
Bora Pain minha porra!
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
September 07 2012 06:36 GMT
#49
It's the quantity of quality. For every top-tier foreigner (late 2010/early 2011 Jinro, mid 2011 to early 2012 Huk, Stephano, etc), there are probably more than 50 Koreans at a similar level.

SC2 is volatile as hell, which is why even the best players cannot win every tournament. But when you see it as Korea vs the World, the deck is always in favor of Korea because they have more top level players. Guys like Stephano can hold with perhaps even the best of the Koreans, but not all the time.

Let's use Stephano and MLG as an example: Say Stephano has a 10% chance of winning MLG. That's great, but there are few foreigners who can perform at his level, and fewer who can do so consistently (if any, and hell, even Stephano isn't totally consistent either. There are times when he flops).

But there are likely 10 or so Koreans nowadays at MLGs that have a similar chance of winning as Stephano. Even if one of them is eliminated, another Korean takes up the banner and races for the finals, and should he fall, yet another Korean can go for the gold, and so on.

TL;DR We have Code S level foreigners and players that can compete with the best. It's just that in terms of good players, Korea has us beat big-time in quantity.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
September 07 2012 06:46 GMT
#50
For the first 12 months, foreigners had a chance. But then their general laziness and sloth got in the way and outside of a few genuinely talented people the rest stagnated while Koreans produced more and more talent.
saynomore
Profile Joined October 2011
Norway149 Posts
September 07 2012 06:50 GMT
#51
In these days and ages it would be good to separate americans from europeans imo.
I dont like you
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
September 07 2012 06:57 GMT
#52
On September 07 2012 15:46 Sub40APM wrote:
For the first 12 months, foreigners had a chance. But then their general laziness and sloth got in the way and outside of a few genuinely talented people the rest stagnated while Koreans produced more and more talent.


Yep, just as everyone predicted would happen :D
zerino
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark253 Posts
September 07 2012 07:05 GMT
#53
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote:
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.


exactly what i was thinking, if they count mlg qualifier bracket they will have lots of matches vs master- mid gm US server Free wins before they even get to the best foreigneer players. While its only those koreans that actually think its worth investing time and money that come to fight the foreigneers.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
September 07 2012 07:10 GMT
#54
On September 07 2012 16:05 zerino wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote:
They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments.


exactly what i was thinking, if they count mlg qualifier bracket they will have lots of matches vs master- mid gm US server Free wins before they even get to the best foreigneer players. While its only those koreans that actually think its worth investing time and money that come to fight the foreigneers.


You haven't really read the op, except to look at the shiny pictures, have you?
PuPu
Profile Joined September 2011
Finland120 Posts
September 07 2012 07:14 GMT
#55
On September 07 2012 09:59 Fionn wrote:
So you're telling me that Koreans, those folk from Asia, are better than everyone else?

Shit. Just. Got. Serious.


:D
"Mmm, It's nice"
chenchen
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1136 Posts
September 07 2012 07:23 GMT
#56
To all the people saying that only good Koreans fly abroad and play in foreign tournaments . . . . look at any big foreign tournament with heavy Korean participation and you can find tons and tons and tons of Koreans that would never dream of touching Code S. And yet they are more than capable enough of stomping through foreigners in online qualifiers.
powerade = dragoon blood
Flamingo777
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1190 Posts
September 07 2012 07:23 GMT
#57
Very interesting that the gap continues to increase between foreigner and Korean skill.
johnny123
Profile Joined February 2012
521 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-08 14:27:01
September 08 2012 14:07 GMT
#58
On September 07 2012 15:46 Sub40APM wrote:
For the first 12 months, foreigners had a chance. But then their general laziness and sloth got in the way and outside of a few genuinely talented people the rest stagnated while Koreans produced more and more talent.



Or, one could say the foreigners only stood a chance because the game was not figured out yet for the most part ... The same will be expected of hots, the koreans/foreigners might perform similar at the start, but 5 or so months after its release expect the gap to start widening alot. And with kespa in the scene now, Its only now going to get really fierce.

Favorite players,Stephano/MVP/Nestea/Gumiho/Life/Jaedong/MMA
Fenrax
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States5018 Posts
September 08 2012 14:17 GMT
#59
Wow, fuck these haters. Seriously. AMAZING work bro. Thanks for that. Very very insightful.
zanga
Profile Joined September 2011
659 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-08 14:25:40
September 08 2012 14:25 GMT
#60
Cool!

I love data, number crunching and graphs . We all knew that Korea still holds the leading edge of SC2, but numbers are always good to observe for a closer look.

Thanks for collecting and presenting it all!
(:
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The Patches Monday
16:15
#3
RotterdaM977
TaKeTV 456
TKL 409
IndyStarCraft 278
SteadfastSC206
ZombieGrub120
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 977
ByuN 482
TKL 409
IndyStarCraft 278
SteadfastSC 206
ZombieGrub120
UpATreeSC 86
JuggernautJason29
RushiSC 21
EnDerr 2
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3095
Shuttle 716
BeSt 601
Soma 301
Soulkey 219
Dewaltoss 108
ggaemo 95
Mini 65
Terrorterran 27
Dota 2
XaKoH 543
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps892
zeus208
edward61
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0424
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu455
Other Games
Grubby3705
Liquid`RaSZi1749
FrodaN1357
Beastyqt769
ceh9645
ToD215
uThermal168
ArmadaUGS158
Livibee92
Trikslyr47
BRAT_OK 29
MindelVK6
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 229
• Reevou 9
• Adnapsc2 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 24
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1119
Other Games
• imaqtpie1390
• Shiphtur374
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
14h 30m
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
GSL
15h 30m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 13h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 14h
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
The Patches Monday
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 4
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.