EPT
Analysis of Koreans vs non-Koreans at major events - Page 2
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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Brett
Australia3823 Posts
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Porcelina
United Kingdom3249 Posts
On September 07 2012 10:55 Brett wrote: Yeah guys, no shit the results showed us what we already knew. But no need to be smart asses about it; it's still nice of this guy to share his work. I do not think any of us meant any disrespect. It was just the obvious joke, and it was delivered quite well. I love stats, so I really appreciate this compilation. Does not change the fact that it was always going to be very predictable. So we can appreciate and jest at the same time. | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
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sam05396
United States783 Posts
On September 07 2012 10:17 Hazuc wrote: What I'm trying to say is that most koreans playing in foreign tournaments are Code S level which is not really fair for comparisons. do you know how big code s is? plus i would say the top foreigners are at most foreign events | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
truth is there are hundreds of Code A Koreans are just as good as their Code S counter parts, and when you add in the KeSPA players, well there are literally thousands of Koreans that are considered the "best of the best". | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On September 07 2012 10:06 Hazuc wrote: They should compare the top 32 koreans with the top 32 foreigners instead. There are many bad foreigners in foreign events while the bad koreans do not participate in those tournaments. From the original website: Early competition rounds with more than 64 players were not counted as skill level between players is often too disparate to make useful comparisons. So bad foreigners were already filtered out from the calculations. Besides code B and code A level Koreans participate in foreign tournaments and more than hold their own. Guys like Revival, Sound, First, Sleep, Inori, Hyun, Hack, etc are all code A or B yet have made deep runs in foreign tournaments. I daresay the gap between Korean 33-64 and foreigner 33-64 is even greater than the gap between Korean 1-32 and foreigner 1-32. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On September 07 2012 11:29 red4ce wrote: I daresay the gap between Korean 33-64 and foreigner 33-64 is even greater than the gap between Korean 1-32 and foreigner 1-32. Yeah, that's what I keep reading as well. I wonder if there is a good way to measure that? | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On September 07 2012 11:29 red4ce wrote: From the original website: So bad foreigners were already filtered out from the calculations. Besides code B and code A level Koreans participate in foreign tournaments and more than hold their own. Guys like Revival, Sound, First, Sleep, Inori, Hyun, Hack, etc are all code A or B yet have made deep runs in foreign tournaments. I daresay the gap between Korean 33-64 and foreigner 33-64 is even greater than the gap between Korean 1-32 and foreigner 1-32. Agree. It is close to something like basketball in the US. The top Spanish top can be competitive with the top US team at Olympics. But if you take the 3rd string US team and pit that against the 3rd string Spanish team, the results would be even more one sided. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On September 07 2012 10:17 Hazuc wrote: What I'm trying to say is that most koreans playing in foreign tournaments are Code S level which is not really fair for comparisons. Then one must explain why Crank, Revival, asd, Sleep, Sting, Inori, Monster, etc. have done so well at foreign tournaments. | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On September 07 2012 11:34 Cascade wrote: Yeah, that's what I keep reading as well. I wonder if there is a good way to measure that? It'd take a lot more dedication than I think anyone would be willing to put in. You'd have to go through the match records of all the major tournaments and cross reference each Korean player with what their standing in the GSL or their Elo ranking at the time was, and even then it'd be a flawed comparison. | ||
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13JackaL
United States577 Posts
On September 07 2012 11:48 CosmicSpiral wrote: Then one must explain why Crank, Revival, asd, Sleep, Sting, Inori, Monster, etc. have done so well at foreign tournaments. None of them won any yet I don't think. I'm sure that if you picked 4 of them and sent them to an MLG or a dreamhack without any other koreans, they wouldn't necessarily blow away the competition (especially at dreamhack) | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On September 07 2012 11:57 13JackaL wrote: None of them won any yet I don't think. I'm sure that if you picked 4 of them and sent them to an MLG or a dreamhack without any other koreans, they wouldn't necessarily blow away the competition (especially at dreamhack) ...they already have blown away the competition. That's why I chose them specifically as examples. The only reason they lose is because they run into top foreigners or they play other Koreans. But these mid-tier Koreans do not usually lose against mid-tier foreigners, which should severely dent the "top Koreans skew the statistics" argument. | ||
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Ichabod
United States1659 Posts
A larger pool of foreigners is facing a larger pool of koreans. That doesn't mean the elite of each (S-class koreans and foreigners) haven't gotten closer in skill over past two years. (Of course, it doesn't confirm or deny this). Drawing too many conclusions from just this data may be misleading. (Including the number of games F v K over the past two years would be nice for context, if that information is already tabulated.) | ||
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ScienceGroen
United States43 Posts
Must be that infamous S. Korean practice regimen slowly widening the gap as their extra practice keeps paying off. Wonder if this will reset at all when HotS lands. | ||
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
On September 07 2012 10:54 blade55555 wrote: Interesting to see how it was almost 50% in beginning and only dropped every Q except for 2012 and then dropped to 20% In 2010 more or less only IdrA and Jinro were playing Koreans so those stats aren't as good as the others. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On September 07 2012 10:54 blade55555 wrote: Interesting to see how it was almost 50% in beginning and only dropped every Q except for 2012 and then dropped to 20% Alot of the early results from 2010 or so were mostly from online play, where Koreans are at a disadvantage in terms of ping. When they started coming in bigger and bigger groups to local events such as MLG, it became very evident that the big talk about how EU/NA closed the gap was nothing but a load of garbage. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
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DRob
United States30 Posts
The only thing I find interesting is why foreigner had a big increase in win rate @ 2012 Q2. Everything else is to be expected That is a very good question. Looking at the Q2 events which everyone can do on the article, there isn't a particular event that stood out. Non-Koreans just did better at most all of the Q2 events. Like a 34% match win rate in MLG Spring Championship vs. a 22% match win rate at MLG Summer Championship. GSL also went pretty well for non-Koreans v. Koreans with a 5-5 record from this period. As a percentage of the total there is a lot more non-Korean Zergs so Q2 could also be impacted by strong Zergs across the board (Korean or not) after the Queen patch. And that effect has declined as Zergs have come back down to a more balanced performance range. That is just a theory. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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