• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:53
CEST 19:53
KST 02:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview1[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week 89 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light vespene.gg — BW replays in browser BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL21] Semifinals B Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1986 users

[Resolved] Kespa, GOM, ESF dispute - Page 54

Forum Index > SC2 General
2275 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 52 53 54 55 56 114 Next
Atheist
Profile Joined December 2011
186 Posts
August 26 2012 12:39 GMT
#1061
On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.

KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.

KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing?

Only misguided post here is yours tbh!


his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set.

kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene.

Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this.
Sandermatt
Profile Joined December 2010
Switzerland1365 Posts
August 26 2012 12:39 GMT
#1062
On August 26 2012 21:35 Sethronu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


Do you seriously think these players would risk their reputations and income to 'stand up for the rights' of players most of whom they don't know, and who are their direct competition anyway? Take off your rose glasses...


Well, they have nothing to win. They have money to win in OSL, and in GSL. By taking part in the OSL and blocking out Kespa of GSL they would make the most money. The fact that they are acting in a way that hurts themselves shows to me that they are trully concerned and not selfish.
imallinson
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United Kingdom3482 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-26 12:41:53
August 26 2012 12:40 GMT
#1063
On August 26 2012 21:31 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:26 imallinson wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:02 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 20:58 B.I.G. wrote:
Know what? Fuck Kespa, and fuck the teams that stick with that nazi regime. I was just as excited as everyone to hear that Bisu and Flash were switching to SC2, but if it means destroying all the stuff we built in the past years then I prefer they go play League of Legends or something.

And don't say the players are innocent in this. Especially after this bullshit they and their teams should flee Kespa's evil clutches and come over to the ESF side. If they play it well, the sponsors will most certainly come along.

This is up to YOU Kespa players. You know the dissatisfaction everyone has with Kespa. Time to think bigger and take a risk. Now is your chance to give a big fuck you to Kespa and get on board with an organisation that actually listens to you and lets you play.


Not that I'm trying to throw the boot in but none of this is the players fault. The players all want to play in the GSL, they've said so themselves but they can't really leave their teams to go play there. Kespa teams get salaries, people need money to live and the teams won't leave Kespa as all the sponsors who sponsor the teams are involved in Kespa and no sponsors means no money. There's been plenty of people in the past (like Stork) on the Kespa player roster who have said the players deserve more rights, but they're all too scared to do anything about it as they'll lose their livelihoods.

The main issue here and why the ESF players are up in arms is that Kespa players have little to no rights on how they live their own lives. They're forced to practice 13-14 hours a day and can only play in events that their teams tell them. The reason the ESF players are up in arms is once upon a time they too lived in this conditions.


I'm not really sure why everyone is up in arms about the lack of freedom the Kespa players get. If you look at traditional sports every professional player will have an intensive that they have to stick to and they won't make the decisions on which tournaments they participate in. Hell look at basically any job and you have very little freedom in what you do. I think a lot of the pro teams, especially the foreign ones, are run like a hobby group, not a team of professional gamers. This is exactly why the Kespa players players have managed to achieve in 4-5 months what everyone else did in two years. If the Kespa teams were run like the foreigner teams or even the ESF teams they wouldn't be able to compete.


eSports are not and will never be traditional sports. If you look at how many various Starcraft tournaments there are compared to say Tennis tournaments it's by far completely different. Kespa players do practice a lot, I understand that. It still doesn't excuse the fact they have little to no rights in how they live their lives and if they don't practice for the 12-13 hours a day like their teams tell them they'll get thrown out of the house.

The players need a union and eSF are trying to be that union. They want to stand up for the rights of the players and MVP etc. have decided themselves to step out of the OSL as they've actually been in that situation themselves. They know what it's like to live under Kespa's ruling and they feel it's unfair for the players as people.

I'm not saying that eSports will be the same as traditional sports. The players are doing a job though and get paid to do that job. If you went to your manager and asked to take time off your normal work to do a side project you would be told to stop being silly and get back to your work. The players get paid a salary (or lodgings and food in the case of b-teamers) to stick to the practice regime and go to the tournaments that their teams deem are worth going to. Remember that entering a tournament will take away a lot of practice time and will most likely cost the team money. A team that has a rigid practice regimen can't just let their players go to whichever tournaments they feel like because it is a detriment to the team as a whole.

edit: I think a player's union is an excellent idea but trying to argue for that much player freedom just won't work.
Liquipedia
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3396 Posts
August 26 2012 12:40 GMT
#1064
On August 26 2012 21:34 Sandermatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:29 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


No, there is no enemy. KeSPA/SKorean corporates want control of eSports through monopolizing good players. Blizz/ESF/GOM want control of eSports by monopolizing the fact they have to play through BNet for all the games.

In the end the prize of monopoly is all those future eSports broadcast rights. This should have become apparent to the community from the first day Blizz announced no LAN for SC2.


Blizzard wants to have control yes. eSF has nothing to do with Blizzard at least not more than any other SC2 players. GOM is sponsored by Blizzard that is true, but still they are not this company. It is funny how many here want to portrait eSF has Blizzards or GOM's puppet, as neither of those has any word to say in their decisions.

The word GOM was dropped in every other sentence in eSF announcement.
Much like OSL is not completely independent of KeSPA those organizations have numerous connections and share similar interests.
If this turns into a boycott war then they will surly land on the same sides.
Bippzy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1466 Posts
August 26 2012 12:41 GMT
#1065
On August 26 2012 21:34 Arceus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


Ok KeSPA does something bad, which can absolutely be arranged. But what ESF is doing is screwing up THE OSL, the inaugural Sc2 OSL, the most symbolic, prestigious starleague which may well decide the fate of Sc2 in Korea.
And if you are like "well fuck OSL, GSL has been going strong for 2 years", no it's not. This OSL will be the saving grace which will triple or quadruple the audience in Korea.

Well god of pokemon, i believe what eSF has decided is that the ends justify the means. They're using the only bargaining power of being in OSL at the cost of ever being allowed again/seclusioning kespa again/ruining the osl that apparently will triple sc2 viewership(i dont know about that..:::. It's a big risk, but i think eSF thinks kespa cant say no. And if they cant, it is good for esports. If they could somehow do osl and accept season 5, its fine for esports too. Im just wortied they crossed that line so its everything or nothing.
LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK
Sandermatt
Profile Joined December 2010
Switzerland1365 Posts
August 26 2012 12:41 GMT
#1066
On August 26 2012 21:39 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:37 Sandermatt wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:34 Arceus wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


Ok KeSPA does something bad, which can absolutely be arranged. But what ESF is doing is screwing up THE OSL, the inaugural Sc2 OSL, the most symbolic, prestigious starleague which may well decide the fate of Sc2 in Korea.
And if you are like "well fuck OSL, GSL has been going strong for 2 years", no it's not. This OSL will be the saving grace which will triple or quadruple the audience in Korea.


But eSF does not want to screw the OSL, they just want to keep their freedom and save GSL. eSF is interessted in a future with two big leagues GSL and OSL, shile Kespa just wants OSL and have GSL as a minor tournament next to it.


no No NO.

ESF wants leagues under Blizz/GOM control. KeSPA wants leagues under SK Corporate/OGN control. It's all about the broadcast rights. That's it.


Why should eSF care about that what do the players have to gain from it? Blizzard has the control anyway as they can always IP ban anybody no matter what Kespa does.
xBillehx
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1289 Posts
August 26 2012 12:41 GMT
#1067
On August 26 2012 21:35 Sethronu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


Do you seriously think these players would risk their reputations and income to 'stand up for the rights' of players most of whom they don't know, and who are their direct competition anyway? Take off your rose glasses...

90% of ESF players know the KeSPA players. They were all on the same teams years ago. The ESF players don't have to worry about reputation, the entirety of Korean fans pretty much support them in this situation. It's only the few on TL who seem to favor the old guys in suits over actual players. They also don't have to worry about their income since they're pretty free to decide where they want to play so long as they're there to represent their team for all the important events. That's something I wish KeSPA would allow it's players to do. When they have no games to play and large open schedules they really should be able to play in the GSL if they want to.
Taengoo ♥
Sethronu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United Kingdom450 Posts
August 26 2012 12:42 GMT
#1068
On August 26 2012 21:39 Sandermatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:35 Sethronu wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


Do you seriously think these players would risk their reputations and income to 'stand up for the rights' of players most of whom they don't know, and who are their direct competition anyway? Take off your rose glasses...


Well, they have nothing to win. They have money to win in OSL, and in GSL. By taking part in the OSL and blocking out Kespa of GSL they would make the most money. The fact that they are acting in a way that hurts themselves shows to me that they are trully concerned and not selfish.


Nevermind my opinion on why would eSF be doing this, what in your opinion KeSPA has to gain by 'messing' with GomTV? Keep in mind that KeSPA is not the same entity as OGN, even though they are related; their income comes from representing their sponsors, not broadcasting. Also remember that majority of OGN's income comes through its TV channel viewers so the overlap of interests between OGN and GomTV broadcasts right now is very small.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
August 26 2012 12:43 GMT
#1069
On August 26 2012 21:34 Sandermatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:29 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


No, there is no enemy. KeSPA/SKorean corporates want control of eSports through monopolizing good players. Blizz/ESF/GOM want control of eSports by monopolizing the fact they have to play through BNet for all the games.

In the end the prize of monopoly is all those future eSports broadcast rights. This should have become apparent to the community from the first day Blizz announced no LAN for SC2.


Blizzard wants to have control yes. eSF has nothing to do with Blizzard at least not more than any other SC2 players. GOM is sponsored by Blizzard that is true, but still they are not this company. It is funny how many here want to portrait eSF has Blizzards or GOM's puppet, as neither of those has any word to say in their decisions.


ROFL. The ESF players and members all GET PAID BECAUSE OF BLIZZARD. Do you honestly think Red Bull and Intel sponsor SC2 because of its viewership?
Что?
GT350
Profile Joined May 2012
United States270 Posts
August 26 2012 12:44 GMT
#1070
On August 26 2012 21:39 Atheist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.

KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.

KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing?

Only misguided post here is yours tbh!


his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set.

kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene.

Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this.

This is the most insane conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread. What about the damage that kespa does to gsl? Did you also think of that? No, because you see it only from kespa's point of view.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
August 26 2012 12:44 GMT
#1071
On August 26 2012 21:40 pmp10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:34 Sandermatt wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:29 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


No, there is no enemy. KeSPA/SKorean corporates want control of eSports through monopolizing good players. Blizz/ESF/GOM want control of eSports by monopolizing the fact they have to play through BNet for all the games.

In the end the prize of monopoly is all those future eSports broadcast rights. This should have become apparent to the community from the first day Blizz announced no LAN for SC2.


Blizzard wants to have control yes. eSF has nothing to do with Blizzard at least not more than any other SC2 players. GOM is sponsored by Blizzard that is true, but still they are not this company. It is funny how many here want to portrait eSF has Blizzards or GOM's puppet, as neither of those has any word to say in their decisions.

The word GOM was dropped in every other sentence in eSF announcement.
Much like OSL is not completely independent of KeSPA those organizations have numerous connections and share similar interests.
If this turns into a boycott war then they will surly land on the same sides.


Thank goodness someone here gets it. >:O
Что?
Sethronu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United Kingdom450 Posts
August 26 2012 12:46 GMT
#1072
On August 26 2012 21:41 xBillehx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:35 Sethronu wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


Do you seriously think these players would risk their reputations and income to 'stand up for the rights' of players most of whom they don't know, and who are their direct competition anyway? Take off your rose glasses...

90% of ESF players know the KeSPA players. They were all on the same teams years ago. The ESF players don't have to worry about reputation, the entirety of Korean fans pretty much support them in this situation. It's only the few on TL who seem to favor the old guys in suits over actual players. They also don't have to worry about their income since they're pretty free to decide where they want to play so long as they're there to represent their team for all the important events. That's something I wish KeSPA would allow it's players to do. When they have no games to play and large open schedules they really should be able to play in the GSL if they want to.


What the hell do you mean eSF players don't have to worry about their future income? There are about 40 Korean players who made over 20k$ in tournament winnings in OVER TWO YEARS that SC2 was running; a large portion of these players are the ones who enjoyed the large and comparably 'easy' prizepools of GSL Open seasons, and aren't even active any more. Of course some of them also have salaries, but so far it seems like salaries aren't exactly large nor given to many players on Korean teams.

Puzzle, one of the better players amongst eSF rosters, openly said he is considering retirement with the KeSPA switch on going. What do you think triggered that?
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-26 12:47:58
August 26 2012 12:47 GMT
#1073
On August 26 2012 21:44 GT350 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:39 Atheist wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.

KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.

KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing?

Only misguided post here is yours tbh!


his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set.

kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene.

Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this.

This is the most insane conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread. What about the damage that kespa does to gsl? Did you also think of that? No, because you see it only from kespa's point of view.


what damage? people being hyped to see kespa players in gsl? thats hardly any damage...you actually think that is comparable to first sc2 osl being ruined? no one is defending kespa(i hope) but only trying to see this from multiple perspective, which is hugely lacking in this thread.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
August 26 2012 12:47 GMT
#1074
On August 26 2012 21:44 GT350 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:39 Atheist wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.

KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.

KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing?

Only misguided post here is yours tbh!


his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set.

kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene.

Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this.

This is the most insane conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread. What about the damage that kespa does to gsl? Did you also think of that? No, because you see it only from kespa's point of view.

Of course we've thought of that. This is purely and simply a war being fought over the future of who owns eSports broadcasting.

Is it the people who own the best players? (KeSPA)
Or the people who publish the games? (Blizzard)

By pushing for a bunch of fragmented, mutually competing tourney organizers all playing on one server network (BNet--no LAN support, remember), that is what Blizz wants. That's what Blizz has already gotten in the international scene. Now they want it in Korea.

But Korea has a different model: they push for a bunch of unified tourney organizers all playing under one player/sponsor network (KeSPA). That's what they want. That's what they already have in Korea with first BW, then SF, now LoL. Now they want it in SC2.

In the end the prize is all to use the assets they have (BNet vs the Korean players) to get the biggest share of any future eSports pie.
Что?
Sandermatt
Profile Joined December 2010
Switzerland1365 Posts
August 26 2012 12:48 GMT
#1075
On August 26 2012 21:43 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:34 Sandermatt wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:29 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


No, there is no enemy. KeSPA/SKorean corporates want control of eSports through monopolizing good players. Blizz/ESF/GOM want control of eSports by monopolizing the fact they have to play through BNet for all the games.

In the end the prize of monopoly is all those future eSports broadcast rights. This should have become apparent to the community from the first day Blizz announced no LAN for SC2.


Blizzard wants to have control yes. eSF has nothing to do with Blizzard at least not more than any other SC2 players. GOM is sponsored by Blizzard that is true, but still they are not this company. It is funny how many here want to portrait eSF has Blizzards or GOM's puppet, as neither of those has any word to say in their decisions.


ROFL. The ESF players and members all GET PAID BECAUSE OF BLIZZARD. Do you honestly think Red Bull and Intel sponsor SC2 because of its viewership?


Do you think the former BW sponsors sponsor the league because of it's viewership? Sure they do, same in SC2.
They are not Blizzard employees.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
August 26 2012 12:48 GMT
#1076
On August 26 2012 21:41 xBillehx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:35 Sethronu wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


Do you seriously think these players would risk their reputations and income to 'stand up for the rights' of players most of whom they don't know, and who are their direct competition anyway? Take off your rose glasses...

90% of ESF players know the KeSPA players. They were all on the same teams years ago. The ESF players don't have to worry about reputation, the entirety of Korean fans pretty much support them in this situation. It's only the few on TL who seem to favor the old guys in suits over actual players. They also don't have to worry about their income since they're pretty free to decide where they want to play so long as they're there to represent their team for all the important events. That's something I wish KeSPA would allow it's players to do. When they have no games to play and large open schedules they really should be able to play in the GSL if they want to.


That's actually not the case. Koreans are fairly nationalistic, and if KeSPA paints this as an attempt by Blizzard to monopolize star Korean players, then they could quickly circle the wagons.
Что?
Atheist
Profile Joined December 2011
186 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-26 12:50:26
August 26 2012 12:49 GMT
#1077
On August 26 2012 21:44 GT350 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:39 Atheist wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.

KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.

KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing?

Only misguided post here is yours tbh!


his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set.

kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene.

Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this.

This is the most insane conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread. What about the damage that kespa does to gsl? Did you also think of that? No, because you see it only from kespa's point of view.

Don't you have a homework to finish or something? This is grown-up talk her kid, with grown-up things that you don't understand yet, you know, business, money, market-control, backstabbing, opportunism, smoke-screen, etc. Ok now go drink your milk.

User was temp banned for this post.
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
August 26 2012 12:51 GMT
#1078
On August 26 2012 21:49 Atheist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:44 GT350 wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:39 Atheist wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.

KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.

KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing?

Only misguided post here is yours tbh!


his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set.

kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene.

Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this.

This is the most insane conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread. What about the damage that kespa does to gsl? Did you also think of that? No, because you see it only from kespa's point of view.

Don't you have a homework to finish or something? This is grown-up talk her kid, with grown-up things that you don't understand yet, you know, business, money, market-control, backstabbing, opportunism, smoke-screen, etc. Ok now go drink your milk.

Don't succumb to the flamebait.
Что?
Zane
Profile Joined January 2011
Romania3916 Posts
August 26 2012 12:51 GMT
#1079
On August 26 2012 21:43 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2012 21:34 Sandermatt wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:29 Shady Sands wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:


KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.


Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in.

Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one.


No, there is no enemy. KeSPA/SKorean corporates want control of eSports through monopolizing good players. Blizz/ESF/GOM want control of eSports by monopolizing the fact they have to play through BNet for all the games.

In the end the prize of monopoly is all those future eSports broadcast rights. This should have become apparent to the community from the first day Blizz announced no LAN for SC2.


Blizzard wants to have control yes. eSF has nothing to do with Blizzard at least not more than any other SC2 players. GOM is sponsored by Blizzard that is true, but still they are not this company. It is funny how many here want to portrait eSF has Blizzards or GOM's puppet, as neither of those has any word to say in their decisions.


ROFL. The ESF players and members all GET PAID BECAUSE OF BLIZZARD. Do you honestly think Red Bull and Intel sponsor SC2 because of its viewership?

So Blizzard forces Intel and Red Bull to sponsor teams? What about LG?
.vid
Profile Joined July 2011
Croatia227 Posts
August 26 2012 12:52 GMT
#1080
ESF is just ridiculous and unprofessional, pulling players halfway thru the tournament.

at least kespa announced it even before qualifications.

imo, kespa should ban esf players from following osl's.
eujjjjj
Prev 1 52 53 54 55 56 114 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
16:00
RO8 TieBreaker
TBD vs SterlingLIVE!
eOnzErG vs TBD
ZZZero.O323
LiquipediaDiscussion
IPSL
16:00
Ro16 Group A
Dewalt vs nOmaD
Ret vs Cross
Airneanach48
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech126
JuggernautJason55
BRAT_OK 51
MindelVK 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23409
ZZZero.O 323
firebathero 312
hero 163
Mini 145
Dewaltoss 34
Aegong 31
Rock 26
soO 10
Dota 2
Gorgc8137
qojqva1129
monkeys_forever160
Other Games
Grubby15781
singsing2169
FrodaN1586
Liquid`RaSZi1172
Beastyqt938
B2W.Neo604
KnowMe214
ArmadaUGS103
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick927
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 40
• Adnapsc2 13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie696
• Shiphtur258
• tFFMrPink 10
Upcoming Events
BSL
1h 7m
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Patches Events
4h 52m
GSL
14h 7m
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
IPSL
22h 7m
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
BSL
1d 1h
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 15h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL
4 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs SHIN
Rogue vs Bunny
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W7
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.