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On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.
KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing? Only misguided post here is yours tbh! his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set. kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene.
Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this.
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On August 26 2012 21:35 Sethronu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. Do you seriously think these players would risk their reputations and income to 'stand up for the rights' of players most of whom they don't know, and who are their direct competition anyway? Take off your rose glasses...
Well, they have nothing to win. They have money to win in OSL, and in GSL. By taking part in the OSL and blocking out Kespa of GSL they would make the most money. The fact that they are acting in a way that hurts themselves shows to me that they are trully concerned and not selfish.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:31 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:26 imallinson wrote:On August 26 2012 21:02 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 20:58 B.I.G. wrote:
Know what? Fuck Kespa, and fuck the teams that stick with that nazi regime. I was just as excited as everyone to hear that Bisu and Flash were switching to SC2, but if it means destroying all the stuff we built in the past years then I prefer they go play League of Legends or something.
And don't say the players are innocent in this. Especially after this bullshit they and their teams should flee Kespa's evil clutches and come over to the ESF side. If they play it well, the sponsors will most certainly come along.
This is up to YOU Kespa players. You know the dissatisfaction everyone has with Kespa. Time to think bigger and take a risk. Now is your chance to give a big fuck you to Kespa and get on board with an organisation that actually listens to you and lets you play. Not that I'm trying to throw the boot in but none of this is the players fault. The players all want to play in the GSL, they've said so themselves but they can't really leave their teams to go play there. Kespa teams get salaries, people need money to live and the teams won't leave Kespa as all the sponsors who sponsor the teams are involved in Kespa and no sponsors means no money. There's been plenty of people in the past (like Stork) on the Kespa player roster who have said the players deserve more rights, but they're all too scared to do anything about it as they'll lose their livelihoods. The main issue here and why the ESF players are up in arms is that Kespa players have little to no rights on how they live their own lives. They're forced to practice 13-14 hours a day and can only play in events that their teams tell them. The reason the ESF players are up in arms is once upon a time they too lived in this conditions. I'm not really sure why everyone is up in arms about the lack of freedom the Kespa players get. If you look at traditional sports every professional player will have an intensive that they have to stick to and they won't make the decisions on which tournaments they participate in. Hell look at basically any job and you have very little freedom in what you do. I think a lot of the pro teams, especially the foreign ones, are run like a hobby group, not a team of professional gamers. This is exactly why the Kespa players players have managed to achieve in 4-5 months what everyone else did in two years. If the Kespa teams were run like the foreigner teams or even the ESF teams they wouldn't be able to compete. eSports are not and will never be traditional sports. If you look at how many various Starcraft tournaments there are compared to say Tennis tournaments it's by far completely different. Kespa players do practice a lot, I understand that. It still doesn't excuse the fact they have little to no rights in how they live their lives and if they don't practice for the 12-13 hours a day like their teams tell them they'll get thrown out of the house. The players need a union and eSF are trying to be that union. They want to stand up for the rights of the players and MVP etc. have decided themselves to step out of the OSL as they've actually been in that situation themselves. They know what it's like to live under Kespa's ruling and they feel it's unfair for the players as people.
I'm not saying that eSports will be the same as traditional sports. The players are doing a job though and get paid to do that job. If you went to your manager and asked to take time off your normal work to do a side project you would be told to stop being silly and get back to your work. The players get paid a salary (or lodgings and food in the case of b-teamers) to stick to the practice regime and go to the tournaments that their teams deem are worth going to. Remember that entering a tournament will take away a lot of practice time and will most likely cost the team money. A team that has a rigid practice regimen can't just let their players go to whichever tournaments they feel like because it is a detriment to the team as a whole.
edit: I think a player's union is an excellent idea but trying to argue for that much player freedom just won't work.
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On August 26 2012 21:34 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:29 Shady Sands wrote:On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. No, there is no enemy. KeSPA/SKorean corporates want control of eSports through monopolizing good players. Blizz/ESF/GOM want control of eSports by monopolizing the fact they have to play through BNet for all the games. In the end the prize of monopoly is all those future eSports broadcast rights. This should have become apparent to the community from the first day Blizz announced no LAN for SC2. Blizzard wants to have control yes. eSF has nothing to do with Blizzard at least not more than any other SC2 players. GOM is sponsored by Blizzard that is true, but still they are not this company. It is funny how many here want to portrait eSF has Blizzards or GOM's puppet, as neither of those has any word to say in their decisions.
The word GOM was dropped in every other sentence in eSF announcement.
Much like OSL is not completely independent of KeSPA those organizations have numerous connections and share similar interests.
If this turns into a boycott war then they will surly land on the same sides.
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On August 26 2012 21:34 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. Ok KeSPA does something bad, which can absolutely be arranged. But what ESF is doing is screwing up THE OSL, the inaugural Sc2 OSL, the most symbolic, prestigious starleague which may well decide the fate of Sc2 in Korea. And if you are like "well fuck OSL, GSL has been going strong for 2 years", no it's not. This OSL will be the saving grace which will triple or quadruple the audience in Korea.
Well god of pokemon, i believe what eSF has decided is that the ends justify the means. They're using the only bargaining power of being in OSL at the cost of ever being allowed again/seclusioning kespa again/ruining the osl that apparently will triple sc2 viewership(i dont know about that..::: . It's a big risk, but i think eSF thinks kespa cant say no. And if they cant, it is good for esports. If they could somehow do osl and accept season 5, its fine for esports too. Im just wortied they crossed that line so its everything or nothing.
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On August 26 2012 21:39 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:37 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 21:34 Arceus wrote:On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. Ok KeSPA does something bad, which can absolutely be arranged. But what ESF is doing is screwing up THE OSL, the inaugural Sc2 OSL, the most symbolic, prestigious starleague which may well decide the fate of Sc2 in Korea. And if you are like "well fuck OSL, GSL has been going strong for 2 years", no it's not. This OSL will be the saving grace which will triple or quadruple the audience in Korea. But eSF does not want to screw the OSL, they just want to keep their freedom and save GSL. eSF is interessted in a future with two big leagues GSL and OSL, shile Kespa just wants OSL and have GSL as a minor tournament next to it. no No NO. ESF wants leagues under Blizz/GOM control. KeSPA wants leagues under SK Corporate/OGN control. It's all about the broadcast rights. That's it.
Why should eSF care about that what do the players have to gain from it? Blizzard has the control anyway as they can always IP ban anybody no matter what Kespa does.
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On August 26 2012 21:35 Sethronu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. Do you seriously think these players would risk their reputations and income to 'stand up for the rights' of players most of whom they don't know, and who are their direct competition anyway? Take off your rose glasses...
90% of ESF players know the KeSPA players. They were all on the same teams years ago. The ESF players don't have to worry about reputation, the entirety of Korean fans pretty much support them in this situation. It's only the few on TL who seem to favor the old guys in suits over actual players. They also don't have to worry about their income since they're pretty free to decide where they want to play so long as they're there to represent their team for all the important events. That's something I wish KeSPA would allow it's players to do. When they have no games to play and large open schedules they really should be able to play in the GSL if they want to.
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United Kingdom450 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:39 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:35 Sethronu wrote:On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. Do you seriously think these players would risk their reputations and income to 'stand up for the rights' of players most of whom they don't know, and who are their direct competition anyway? Take off your rose glasses... Well, they have nothing to win. They have money to win in OSL, and in GSL. By taking part in the OSL and blocking out Kespa of GSL they would make the most money. The fact that they are acting in a way that hurts themselves shows to me that they are trully concerned and not selfish.
Nevermind my opinion on why would eSF be doing this, what in your opinion KeSPA has to gain by 'messing' with GomTV? Keep in mind that KeSPA is not the same entity as OGN, even though they are related; their income comes from representing their sponsors, not broadcasting. Also remember that majority of OGN's income comes through its TV channel viewers so the overlap of interests between OGN and GomTV broadcasts right now is very small.
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On August 26 2012 21:34 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:29 Shady Sands wrote:On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. No, there is no enemy. KeSPA/SKorean corporates want control of eSports through monopolizing good players. Blizz/ESF/GOM want control of eSports by monopolizing the fact they have to play through BNet for all the games. In the end the prize of monopoly is all those future eSports broadcast rights. This should have become apparent to the community from the first day Blizz announced no LAN for SC2. Blizzard wants to have control yes. eSF has nothing to do with Blizzard at least not more than any other SC2 players. GOM is sponsored by Blizzard that is true, but still they are not this company. It is funny how many here want to portrait eSF has Blizzards or GOM's puppet, as neither of those has any word to say in their decisions.
ROFL. The ESF players and members all GET PAID BECAUSE OF BLIZZARD. Do you honestly think Red Bull and Intel sponsor SC2 because of its viewership?
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On August 26 2012 21:39 Atheist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.
KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing? Only misguided post here is yours tbh! his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set. kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene. Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this.
This is the most insane conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread. What about the damage that kespa does to gsl? Did you also think of that? No, because you see it only from kespa's point of view.
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On August 26 2012 21:40 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:34 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 21:29 Shady Sands wrote:On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. No, there is no enemy. KeSPA/SKorean corporates want control of eSports through monopolizing good players. Blizz/ESF/GOM want control of eSports by monopolizing the fact they have to play through BNet for all the games. In the end the prize of monopoly is all those future eSports broadcast rights. This should have become apparent to the community from the first day Blizz announced no LAN for SC2. Blizzard wants to have control yes. eSF has nothing to do with Blizzard at least not more than any other SC2 players. GOM is sponsored by Blizzard that is true, but still they are not this company. It is funny how many here want to portrait eSF has Blizzards or GOM's puppet, as neither of those has any word to say in their decisions. The word GOM was dropped in every other sentence in eSF announcement. Much like OSL is not completely independent of KeSPA those organizations have numerous connections and share similar interests. If this turns into a boycott war then they will surly land on the same sides.
Thank goodness someone here gets it. >:O
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United Kingdom450 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:41 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:35 Sethronu wrote:On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. Do you seriously think these players would risk their reputations and income to 'stand up for the rights' of players most of whom they don't know, and who are their direct competition anyway? Take off your rose glasses... 90% of ESF players know the KeSPA players. They were all on the same teams years ago. The ESF players don't have to worry about reputation, the entirety of Korean fans pretty much support them in this situation. It's only the few on TL who seem to favor the old guys in suits over actual players. They also don't have to worry about their income since they're pretty free to decide where they want to play so long as they're there to represent their team for all the important events. That's something I wish KeSPA would allow it's players to do. When they have no games to play and large open schedules they really should be able to play in the GSL if they want to.
What the hell do you mean eSF players don't have to worry about their future income? There are about 40 Korean players who made over 20k$ in tournament winnings in OVER TWO YEARS that SC2 was running; a large portion of these players are the ones who enjoyed the large and comparably 'easy' prizepools of GSL Open seasons, and aren't even active any more. Of course some of them also have salaries, but so far it seems like salaries aren't exactly large nor given to many players on Korean teams.
Puzzle, one of the better players amongst eSF rosters, openly said he is considering retirement with the KeSPA switch on going. What do you think triggered that?
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On August 26 2012 21:44 GT350 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:39 Atheist wrote:On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.
KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing? Only misguided post here is yours tbh! his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set. kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene. Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this. This is the most insane conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread. What about the damage that kespa does to gsl? Did you also think of that? No, because you see it only from kespa's point of view.
what damage? people being hyped to see kespa players in gsl? thats hardly any damage...you actually think that is comparable to first sc2 osl being ruined? no one is defending kespa(i hope) but only trying to see this from multiple perspective, which is hugely lacking in this thread.
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On August 26 2012 21:44 GT350 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:39 Atheist wrote:On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.
KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing? Only misguided post here is yours tbh! his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set. kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene. Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this. This is the most insane conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread. What about the damage that kespa does to gsl? Did you also think of that? No, because you see it only from kespa's point of view.
Of course we've thought of that. This is purely and simply a war being fought over the future of who owns eSports broadcasting.
Is it the people who own the best players? (KeSPA)
Or the people who publish the games? (Blizzard)
By pushing for a bunch of fragmented, mutually competing tourney organizers all playing on one server network (BNet--no LAN support, remember), that is what Blizz wants. That's what Blizz has already gotten in the international scene. Now they want it in Korea.
But Korea has a different model: they push for a bunch of unified tourney organizers all playing under one player/sponsor network (KeSPA). That's what they want. That's what they already have in Korea with first BW, then SF, now LoL. Now they want it in SC2.
In the end the prize is all to use the assets they have (BNet vs the Korean players) to get the biggest share of any future eSports pie.
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On August 26 2012 21:43 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:34 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 21:29 Shady Sands wrote:On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. No, there is no enemy. KeSPA/SKorean corporates want control of eSports through monopolizing good players. Blizz/ESF/GOM want control of eSports by monopolizing the fact they have to play through BNet for all the games. In the end the prize of monopoly is all those future eSports broadcast rights. This should have become apparent to the community from the first day Blizz announced no LAN for SC2. Blizzard wants to have control yes. eSF has nothing to do with Blizzard at least not more than any other SC2 players. GOM is sponsored by Blizzard that is true, but still they are not this company. It is funny how many here want to portrait eSF has Blizzards or GOM's puppet, as neither of those has any word to say in their decisions. ROFL. The ESF players and members all GET PAID BECAUSE OF BLIZZARD. Do you honestly think Red Bull and Intel sponsor SC2 because of its viewership?
Do you think the former BW sponsors sponsor the league because of it's viewership? Sure they do, same in SC2.
They are not Blizzard employees.
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On August 26 2012 21:41 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:35 Sethronu wrote:On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. Do you seriously think these players would risk their reputations and income to 'stand up for the rights' of players most of whom they don't know, and who are their direct competition anyway? Take off your rose glasses... 90% of ESF players know the KeSPA players. They were all on the same teams years ago. The ESF players don't have to worry about reputation, the entirety of Korean fans pretty much support them in this situation. It's only the few on TL who seem to favor the old guys in suits over actual players. They also don't have to worry about their income since they're pretty free to decide where they want to play so long as they're there to represent their team for all the important events. That's something I wish KeSPA would allow it's players to do. When they have no games to play and large open schedules they really should be able to play in the GSL if they want to.
That's actually not the case. Koreans are fairly nationalistic, and if KeSPA paints this as an attempt by Blizzard to monopolize star Korean players, then they could quickly circle the wagons.
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On August 26 2012 21:44 GT350 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:39 Atheist wrote:On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.
KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing? Only misguided post here is yours tbh! his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set. kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene. Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this. This is the most insane conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread. What about the damage that kespa does to gsl? Did you also think of that? No, because you see it only from kespa's point of view.
Don't you have a homework to finish or something? This is grown-up talk her kid, with grown-up things that you don't understand yet, you know, business, money, market-control, backstabbing, opportunism, smoke-screen, etc. Ok now go drink your milk.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 26 2012 21:49 Atheist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:44 GT350 wrote:On August 26 2012 21:39 Atheist wrote:On August 26 2012 21:31 jinorazi wrote:On August 26 2012 21:29 Benjamin99 wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.
KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. ESF are the bloody players standing up for them self how is that a bad thing? Only misguided post here is yours tbh! his post make sense to me. kespa says they wont be participating gsl 4 BEFORE anything set solid with an excuse regardless of how doubtful it maybe. esf pulls out of players in the first sc2 osl (hugely important) after everything has been set. kespa's fault comes from the way they managed it, they shouldn't speak for all the players and teams as a whole and esf is at fault here for jeopardizing the whole sc2 scene. Obviously some people here (basement dwelling kids if I should guess) do not understand long term business effects out of vengeful sabotage like reactions. KeSPA never promised to be in GSL 4, they just expressed interest in joining it and future partnerships with GOM/ESF. And now ESF wants KeSPA to commit to a continuous participation with GOM. Who is the abuser here? As this thing drags on, I see a pattern. Someone wants to breakdown the Esports infrastructure in Korea, perhaps so they could swoop in? Let's see how the chips fall on this. This is the most insane conspiracy theory bullshit in this thread. What about the damage that kespa does to gsl? Did you also think of that? No, because you see it only from kespa's point of view. Don't you have a homework to finish or something? This is grown-up talk her kid, with grown-up things that you don't understand yet, you know, business, money, market-control, backstabbing, opportunism, smoke-screen, etc. Ok now go drink your milk.
Don't succumb to the flamebait.
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On August 26 2012 21:43 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:34 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 21:29 Shady Sands wrote:On August 26 2012 21:27 Qikz wrote:On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. Enemy? Enemy? the eSF players are just standing up for the rights of the Kespa players. They feel that the Kespa players should be allowed to play in the tournament they've all been saying they want to play in. Hos is that a bad thing? You're the misguided one. No, there is no enemy. KeSPA/SKorean corporates want control of eSports through monopolizing good players. Blizz/ESF/GOM want control of eSports by monopolizing the fact they have to play through BNet for all the games. In the end the prize of monopoly is all those future eSports broadcast rights. This should have become apparent to the community from the first day Blizz announced no LAN for SC2. Blizzard wants to have control yes. eSF has nothing to do with Blizzard at least not more than any other SC2 players. GOM is sponsored by Blizzard that is true, but still they are not this company. It is funny how many here want to portrait eSF has Blizzards or GOM's puppet, as neither of those has any word to say in their decisions. ROFL. The ESF players and members all GET PAID BECAUSE OF BLIZZARD. Do you honestly think Red Bull and Intel sponsor SC2 because of its viewership?
So Blizzard forces Intel and Red Bull to sponsor teams? What about LG?
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ESF is just ridiculous and unprofessional, pulling players halfway thru the tournament.
at least kespa announced it even before qualifications.
imo, kespa should ban esf players from following osl's.
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EPT
