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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
And don't say the players are innocent in this. Especially after this bullshit they and their teams should flee Kespa's evil clutches and come over to the ESF side. If they play it well, the sponsors will most certainly come along. This is up to YOU Kespa players. You know the dissatisfaction everyone has with Kespa. Time to think bigger and take a risk. Now is your chance to give a big fuck you to Kespa and get on board with an organisation that actually listens to you and lets you play. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51716 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:58 B.I.G. wrote: Know what? Fuck Kespa, and fuck the teams that stick with that nazi regime. I was just as excited as everyone to hear that Bisu and Flash were switching to SC2, but if it means destroying all the stuff we built in the past years then I prefer they go play League of Legends or something. And don't say the players are innocent in this. Especially after this bullshit they and their teams should flee Kespa's evil clutches and come over to the ESF side. If they play it well, the sponsors will most certainly come along. This is up to YOU Kespa players. You know the dissatisfaction everyone has with Kespa. Time to think bigger and take a risk. Now is your chance to give a big fuck you to Kespa and get on board with an organisation that actually listens to you and lets you play. the sponsors are kespa dude. On August 26 2012 20:58 boxman22 wrote: Except that they're probably not allowed to play those... they could quit the team, what difference does it make anyway, B-teamers aren't actually paid but their lodging/food is being paid for by the team. | ||
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:56 boag11 wrote: Ok lets assume Half of KT rolster's 15 or 16 players are B teamers, Not one of the B Teamers will have time to play 2 games a week at qualifiers? Lets assume that ONE(1) B teamers takes out 3 hours on that one day to travel to studio, assuming it isnt online qualifier, plays and come back. Does that 3 hours a week from that 1 player really affect the A-teamers pratice? Seriously to not even allow ONE (1) of the many players on the 8 Kespa teams to participate because A-teamers will be lacking pracitice. I dont even know how to describe how I feel about that. You assume alot. you should try playing a sport on a high Level. | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:56 BLinD-RawR wrote: they'll get famous the same way every other korean is these days. ESV weekly, TLopens...online tournaments. They have to leave Kespa first before they can start making a name for themselves, which might not work as the competition is hard. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12071 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:58 B.I.G. wrote: Know what? Fuck Kespa, and fuck the teams that stick with that nazi regime. I was just as excited as everyone to hear that Bisu and Flash were switching to SC2, but if it means destroying all the stuff we built in the past years then I prefer they go play League of Legends or something. And don't say the players are innocent in this. Especially after this bullshit they and their teams should flee Kespa's evil clutches and come over to the ESF side. If they play it well, the sponsors will most certainly come along. This is up to YOU Kespa players. You know the dissatisfaction everyone has with Kespa. Time to think bigger and take a risk. Now is your chance to give a big fuck you to Kespa and get on board with an organisation that actually listens to you and lets you play. Not that I'm trying to throw the boot in but none of this is the players fault. The players all want to play in the GSL, they've said so themselves but they can't really leave their teams to go play there. Kespa teams get salaries, people need money to live and the teams won't leave Kespa as all the sponsors who sponsor the teams are involved in Kespa and no sponsors means no money. There's been plenty of people in the past (like Stork) on the Kespa player roster who have said the players deserve more rights, but they're all too scared to do anything about it as they'll lose their livelihoods. The main issue here and why the ESF players are up in arms is that Kespa players have little to no rights on how they live their own lives. They're forced to practice 13-14 hours a day and can only play in events that their teams tell them. The reason the ESF players are up in arms is once upon a time they too lived in this conditions. | ||
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BgSBendeR
Canada170 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:58 B.I.G. wrote: Know what? Fuck Kespa, and fuck the teams that stick with that nazi regime. I was just as excited as everyone to hear that Bisu and Flash were switching to SC2, but if it means destroying all the stuff we built in the past years then I prefer they go play League of Legends or something. And don't say the players are innocent in this. Especially after this bullshit they and their teams should flee Kespa's evil clutches and come over to the ESF side. If they play it well, the sponsors will most certainly come along. This is up to YOU Kespa players. You know the dissatisfaction everyone has with Kespa. Time to think bigger and take a risk. Now is your chance to give a big fuck you to Kespa and get on board with an organisation that actually listens to you and lets you play. Sorry but this is by the the dumbest comment in this thread. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
Er, yeah. KeSPA is composed of the 7 (8?) main BW corporate sponsors + Shinhan Bank. Basically to go against KeSPA would be to bite the hand that feeds them. It's not about KeSPA feeling like they need to keep control of everything here. It's about the corporate sponsors feeling like KeSPA players aren't ready to switch to SC2 yet, so they want to maintain their "winning image" by delaying the switch. Trust me, no matter the venue, those corporate sponsors would like nothing more than for the eSports world to again default to accepting their players as the untouchable best. But until they are sure that will be the case, they won't let their pros participate. | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
Everyone blames Kespa for their vile ways (and they are right) but in the end its the players that let them get away with it. | ||
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boag11
United States28 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:01 rasers wrote: You assume alot. you should try playing a sport on a high Level. With me assuming what I did I am actually giving Kespa the benefit of the doubt as I am sure there are more B-teamers then there are A-teamers for each team. And Im sorry but if I did play a sport at a high level I would not be getting paid below minimum wage and working 12+ hours a day so the guy next to me can get paid more. Edit: Unless I play for the NCAA but thats another discussion for another day on a different forum | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:04 B.I.G. wrote: And the abuse is going to keep happening if they let it. Which is what I'm saying. Everyone blames Kespa for their vile ways (and they are right) but in the end its the players that let them get away with it. no, everyone is blaming everyone. no one with the right mind, a rational, logical mind would blame everything solely on kespa. stop assuming. like any other job, if the employee is not happy with it they will leave. if they dont leave, maybe its not enough for them to leave? | ||
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote: Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? Change those 12+ hours to 8 and you have like a standard internship? -_- What are you 2 even arguing about? | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:05 jinorazi wrote: stop assuming. like any other job, if the employee is not happy with it they will leave. if they dont leave, maybe its not enough for them to leave? well afaik they do make retarded amounts of money so thats almost a way of blackmailing in and of itself. Basically Kespa lets them get used to a certain way of life by paying them big bucks, then turns up the heat because they know they will never get that kind of money anywhere else | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51716 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:04 B.I.G. wrote: And the abuse is going to keep happening if they let it. Which is what I'm saying. they can still be a part of eSF, its not an anti-KeSPA in a literal sense that its like KeSPA but good, its a players union, and I absolutely want the players the coaches to be a part of it to protect them from the bullshit that KeSPA throws at them and depending on how this situation is handled the will or they won't be a part of the union. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:08 B.I.G. wrote: well afaik they do make retarded amounts of money so thats almost a way of blackmailing in and of itself. Basically Kespa lets them get used to a certain way of life by paying them big bucks, then turns up the heat because they know they will never get that kind of money anywhere else ...like any other job in the real world. | ||
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boag11
United States28 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:08 Gosi wrote: Change those 12+ hours to 8 and you have like a standard internship? -_- What are you 2 even arguing about? My point was with Kespa banning participation in GSL4, it limits income for non top tier players | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:09 BLinD-RawR wrote: they can still be a part of eSF, its not an anti-KeSPA in a literal sense that its like KeSPA but good, its a players union, and I absolutely want the players the coaches to protect them from the bullshit that KeSPA throws at them and depending on how this situation is handled the will or they won't be a part of the union. well in the end they are the product that the Kespa companies make money with through sponsoring (assuming Kespa is sponsoring for their own gain and not out of the goodness of their heart). I`m not familiar enough with how popular those Kespa players are exactly in Korea but if you would look at a soccer player like Messi the sponsors would follow him around whatever he does (barring anything too crazy). If guys like Flash are anything near that popular in Korea they should realise that and use that power for their own benefit, and that of korean progamers in general. They have a chance to set a huge example here, that Starcraft is for the players and fans and not for corporations that are trying to fatten their pockets. most other jobs in the world have a good alternative to them. If your a concept developer at apple, you can be a concept developer at samsung for example. | ||
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DidYuhim
Ukraine1905 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:15 B.I.G. wrote: well in the end they are the product that the Kespa companies make money with through sponsoring (assuming Kespa is sponsoring for their own gain and not out of the goodness of their heart). I`m not familiar enough with how popular those Kespa players are exactly in Korea but if you would look at a soccer player like Messi the sponsors would follow him around whatever he does (barring anything too crazy). If guys like Flash are anything near that popular in Korea they should realise that and use that power for their own benefit, and that of korean progamers in general. They have a chance to set a huge example here, that Starcraft is for the players and fans and not for corporations that are trying to fatten their pockets. or they can miserable fail or they can join eg or some other foreign team but i'm 100% sure the top stars wont be getting paid what they were by kespa. there's always multiple ways to look at things, theres no need to see it only one way. such as they're happy with where they are, i'm sure some dont like it and would consider switching like the first sc2 players but certainly not everyone thinks alike. afaik kespa is non profit organization consisting of representatives of the sponsors/team and ogn. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 26 2012 21:15 B.I.G. wrote: well in the end they are the product that the Kespa companies make money with through sponsoring (assuming Kespa is sponsoring for their own gain and not out of the goodness of their heart). I`m not familiar enough with how popular those Kespa players are exactly in Korea but if you would look at a soccer player like Messi the sponsors would follow him around whatever he does (barring anything too crazy). If guys like Flash are anything near that popular in Korea they should realise that and use that power for their own benefit, and that of korean progamers in general. They have a chance to set a huge example here, that Starcraft is for the players and fans and not for corporations that are trying to fatten their pockets. most other jobs in the world have a good alternative to them. If your a concept developer at apple, you can be a concept developer at samsung for example. isn't that what happened? bunch of b-teamers quitting and playing sc2, sc2 coahes in esf joining kespa. | ||
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Atheist
186 Posts
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