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On August 26 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:41 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 Rah wrote:
If GOM goes along with Kespa's plan, the OSL is potentially seen as the most prestigious tournament as it's the first to have both organizations' super stars, pushing GSL into insignificance. ESF players could potentially get pushed into insignificance as Kespa players pass them up, and there's not a guarantee that Kespa will keep it's word for GSL5. If ESF sticks to their guns they either get to beat some sub par Kespa players in GSL4, or damage the Korean scene to hold on to the influence they currently have. Their continued withdrawal will damage both OSL and the fans by forcing a divide between the organizations. The only way they can move forward though is to give in to Kespa and trust them, but how can they after all that's happened? So they choose this over letting Kespa get a hold on everything again and having the power to muscle them out. It's hard to judge. I can't see KeSPA sticking to it forever. Blizz will back GOM if things gets too ugly, and KeSPA will have to switch to LoL, and still deal with eSF there anyways. eSF has LoL players? LG-IM has 1 team. ST has 1 team. MVP has freaking 3 teams. No idea where MVP get those money from.
Probably hot6.
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On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else?
No i've never had a job like that.
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On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that.
Perhaps that job is not for you either then
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On August 26 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:41 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 Rah wrote:
If GOM goes along with Kespa's plan, the OSL is potentially seen as the most prestigious tournament as it's the first to have both organizations' super stars, pushing GSL into insignificance. ESF players could potentially get pushed into insignificance as Kespa players pass them up, and there's not a guarantee that Kespa will keep it's word for GSL5. If ESF sticks to their guns they either get to beat some sub par Kespa players in GSL4, or damage the Korean scene to hold on to the influence they currently have. Their continued withdrawal will damage both OSL and the fans by forcing a divide between the organizations. The only way they can move forward though is to give in to Kespa and trust them, but how can they after all that's happened? So they choose this over letting Kespa get a hold on everything again and having the power to muscle them out. It's hard to judge. I can't see KeSPA sticking to it forever. Blizz will back GOM if things gets too ugly, and KeSPA will have to switch to LoL, and still deal with eSF there anyways. eSF has LoL players? LG-IM has 1 team. ST has 1 team. MVP has freaking 3 teams. No idea where MVP get those money from.
And are they pulling out of OSL too?
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On August 26 2012 20:44 boag11 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that. Perhaps that job is not for you either then
stomped
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On August 26 2012 20:44 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:41 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 Rah wrote:
If GOM goes along with Kespa's plan, the OSL is potentially seen as the most prestigious tournament as it's the first to have both organizations' super stars, pushing GSL into insignificance. ESF players could potentially get pushed into insignificance as Kespa players pass them up, and there's not a guarantee that Kespa will keep it's word for GSL5. If ESF sticks to their guns they either get to beat some sub par Kespa players in GSL4, or damage the Korean scene to hold on to the influence they currently have. Their continued withdrawal will damage both OSL and the fans by forcing a divide between the organizations. The only way they can move forward though is to give in to Kespa and trust them, but how can they after all that's happened? So they choose this over letting Kespa get a hold on everything again and having the power to muscle them out. It's hard to judge. I can't see KeSPA sticking to it forever. Blizz will back GOM if things gets too ugly, and KeSPA will have to switch to LoL, and still deal with eSF there anyways. eSF has LoL players? LG-IM has 1 team. ST has 1 team. MVP has freaking 3 teams. No idea where MVP get those money from. And are they pulling out of OSL too?
No I think they are more professional than their SC2 counterpart.
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On August 26 2012 20:44 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:41 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 Rah wrote:
If GOM goes along with Kespa's plan, the OSL is potentially seen as the most prestigious tournament as it's the first to have both organizations' super stars, pushing GSL into insignificance. ESF players could potentially get pushed into insignificance as Kespa players pass them up, and there's not a guarantee that Kespa will keep it's word for GSL5. If ESF sticks to their guns they either get to beat some sub par Kespa players in GSL4, or damage the Korean scene to hold on to the influence they currently have. Their continued withdrawal will damage both OSL and the fans by forcing a divide between the organizations. The only way they can move forward though is to give in to Kespa and trust them, but how can they after all that's happened? So they choose this over letting Kespa get a hold on everything again and having the power to muscle them out. It's hard to judge. I can't see KeSPA sticking to it forever. Blizz will back GOM if things gets too ugly, and KeSPA will have to switch to LoL, and still deal with eSF there anyways. eSF has LoL players? LG-IM has 1 team. ST has 1 team. MVP has freaking 3 teams. No idea where MVP get those money from. And are they pulling out of OSL too?
Of course not. It's just that the negotiations don't suddenly disappear even if they switch to LoL. From what I saw on Leaguepedia anyways, the only definite KeSPA team is CJ Entus.
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On August 26 2012 20:44 boag11 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that. Perhaps that job is not for you either then
It's not like KeSPA forces their players to choose the job. And they can quit, anytime.
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On August 26 2012 20:31 boag11 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:28 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:25 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:19 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. WCS ended BEFORE OSL and PL Playoff start. GSL will start around that time. So no. And Bisu complained before that he had no time to practice for MSL. At that time he was participating in PL (for his team) and MSL only. He had 1 PL game before his MSL game (2 if he was assigned the ACE match too). So yes the team required you to practice nearly 1 whole week to play 1 PL regular match. You should forget everyhing else when it comes to PL playoff. How about the B teamers and pratice partners? They are not allow to participate in GSL qualifiers as well. It isnt just about the top 2-3 stars on a team. I can understand if players like Bisu or Flash not having time because of commitments to OSL and Proleague but how about those that have no chance to play in either. Kespa is basicly taking away B-teamers and pratice partners on Kespa teams from making extra income. And we all know most b teamers and practice partners get no pay or are pay like shit. B-teamers are busy helping those big names practice. You need to start thinking outside the box instead of posting retarded shit. Those B Teamers dont have time to play in a match or 2 a week in qualifiers? Some are already practicing SC2 so it isnt like they are picking up a new game. And again completely banning all players from qualifiers are basicly taking away income opportunity for lesser known players
You still don't understand the way the Kespa teams work... They practice a lot.. I'm talking about 10-15 hours possibly every single day. That's why they're catching up to current sc2 pros so fast. B-teamers are needed to train A-Teamers.
They can't just skip practice and try to qualify for GSL even if they wanted too. In the end it's all goes down to the Team's schedule like Jaedong said in his interview.
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On August 26 2012 20:44 boag11 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that. Perhaps that job is not for you either then
How can you possibly know that? What if it's the best i can do?
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On August 26 2012 20:47 chisuri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:44 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that. Perhaps that job is not for you either then It's not like KeSPA forces their players to choose the job. And they can quit, anytime.
I dont think they're allowed to join ESF teams due to the tradelock. And most of the players don't exactly have any other marketable skills.
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On August 26 2012 20:50 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:47 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:44 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that. Perhaps that job is not for you either then It's not like KeSPA forces their players to choose the job. And they can quit, anytime. I dont think they're allowed to join ESF teams due to the tradelock. And most of the players don't exactly have any other marketable skills.
It's going to get interesting, no, since foreign teams aren't in the tradelock? I mean, it's going to be like the early days of SC2 all over again.
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Actually i did not want to post, cause i'm new and did not read through all the comments yet (so i do not know if thats already pointed out), but i feel esf doesn't want to ruin osl and they coudn't care less if kespa players attend gsl (less competition, more chances to win).
If esf would back down now and kespa would not attend gsl 5 (or even just with b-teamers), then the image of kespa would be ruined for eternity. So by pulling back now they could be in an excellent spot and the good guys.
Therefore I believe just one reason is left and that is to force kespa to ALLOW their players to decide, to loosen the iron grip. This would be a bigger disaster for kespa than the above, cause in my oppinion this would be the start of change in kespa politics or even their end.
PS: sorry for bad english, in german this sound all a bit clearer
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50586 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:50 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:47 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:44 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that. Perhaps that job is not for you either then It's not like KeSPA forces their players to choose the job. And they can quit, anytime. I dont think they're allowed to join ESF teams due to the tradelock. And most of the players don't exactly have any other marketable skills.
they can join foreign teams.
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On August 26 2012 20:46 chisuri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:44 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:41 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 Rah wrote:
If GOM goes along with Kespa's plan, the OSL is potentially seen as the most prestigious tournament as it's the first to have both organizations' super stars, pushing GSL into insignificance. ESF players could potentially get pushed into insignificance as Kespa players pass them up, and there's not a guarantee that Kespa will keep it's word for GSL5. If ESF sticks to their guns they either get to beat some sub par Kespa players in GSL4, or damage the Korean scene to hold on to the influence they currently have. Their continued withdrawal will damage both OSL and the fans by forcing a divide between the organizations. The only way they can move forward though is to give in to Kespa and trust them, but how can they after all that's happened? So they choose this over letting Kespa get a hold on everything again and having the power to muscle them out. It's hard to judge. I can't see KeSPA sticking to it forever. Blizz will back GOM if things gets too ugly, and KeSPA will have to switch to LoL, and still deal with eSF there anyways. eSF has LoL players? LG-IM has 1 team. ST has 1 team. MVP has freaking 3 teams. No idea where MVP get those money from. And are they pulling out of OSL too? No I think they are more professional than their SC2 counterpart.
Or they havn't been completely f'd over and had a retarded maneuver pulled on them. I keep hoping to see some sort of deal between them.. the deal Gom offered with Code S seeds etc was pretty damn sweet :/
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On August 26 2012 20:52 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:50 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:47 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:44 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that. Perhaps that job is not for you either then It's not like KeSPA forces their players to choose the job. And they can quit, anytime. I dont think they're allowed to join ESF teams due to the tradelock. And most of the players don't exactly have any other marketable skills. they can join foreign teams.
Most of them have yet to show they are good in SC2. There is more uncertanity to it then buying an eSF player for a foreign team.
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On August 26 2012 20:50 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:47 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:44 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that. Perhaps that job is not for you either then It's not like KeSPA forces their players to choose the job. And they can quit, anytime. I dont think they're allowed to join ESF teams due to the tradelock. And most of the players don't exactly have any other marketable skills.
they're doing what they want despite long hours and minimum wage as people put it, non-kespa teams can't promise anything.
they're both in the fault. its just as annoying seeing people rip apart kespa with their assumptions or blindly defending kespa or praising esf from pulling out of osl. non of this shit is good and non of it helps.
but the problem can be simply fixed in my opinion with total ignorance on how kespa's system work: let the teams decide who plays and who doesnt.
blame why kespa is making the decisions for all the teams, there is no fucking reason to go apeshit over how kespa is trying to monopolize the market or kill gsl. thats a separate discussion based on their history and people's perception of it. it has little to do with what is going on right now: first sc2 osl doing bad which is bad for korean sc2 scene and further segregation between two organizations if things continue the way it is.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50586 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:53 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:52 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:50 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:47 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:44 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that. Perhaps that job is not for you either then It's not like KeSPA forces their players to choose the job. And they can quit, anytime. I dont think they're allowed to join ESF teams due to the tradelock. And most of the players don't exactly have any other marketable skills. they can join foreign teams. Most of them have yet to show they are good in SC2. There is more uncertanity to it then buying an eSF player for a foreign team.
they'll get famous the same way every other korean is these days.
ESV weekly, TLopens...online tournaments.
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On August 26 2012 20:47 BgSBendeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:31 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:28 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:25 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:19 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:
[quote]
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. WCS ended BEFORE OSL and PL Playoff start. GSL will start around that time. So no. And Bisu complained before that he had no time to practice for MSL. At that time he was participating in PL (for his team) and MSL only. He had 1 PL game before his MSL game (2 if he was assigned the ACE match too). So yes the team required you to practice nearly 1 whole week to play 1 PL regular match. You should forget everyhing else when it comes to PL playoff. How about the B teamers and pratice partners? They are not allow to participate in GSL qualifiers as well. It isnt just about the top 2-3 stars on a team. I can understand if players like Bisu or Flash not having time because of commitments to OSL and Proleague but how about those that have no chance to play in either. Kespa is basicly taking away B-teamers and pratice partners on Kespa teams from making extra income. And we all know most b teamers and practice partners get no pay or are pay like shit. B-teamers are busy helping those big names practice. You need to start thinking outside the box instead of posting retarded shit. Those B Teamers dont have time to play in a match or 2 a week in qualifiers? Some are already practicing SC2 so it isnt like they are picking up a new game. And again completely banning all players from qualifiers are basicly taking away income opportunity for lesser known players You still don't understand the way the Kespa teams work... They practice a lot.. I'm talking about 10-15 hours possibly every single day. That's why they're catching up to current sc2 pros so fast. B-teamers are needed to train A-Teamers. They can't just skip practice and try to qualify for GSL even if they wanted too. In the end it's all goes down to the Team's schedule like Jaedong said in his interview.
Ok lets assume Half of KT rolster's 15 or 16 players are B teamers, Not one of the B Teamers will have time to play 2 games a week at qualifiers?
Lets assume that ONE(1) B teamers takes out 3 hours on that one day to travel to studio, assuming it isnt online qualifier, plays and come back. Does that 3 hours a week from that 1 player really affect the A-teamers pratice?
Seriously to not even allow ONE (1) of the many players on the 8 Kespa teams to participate because A-teamers will be lacking pracitice.
I dont even know how to describe how I feel about that.
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On August 26 2012 20:56 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:53 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 20:52 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:50 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:47 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:44 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:42 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:39 boag11 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:38 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:37 boag11 wrote:
Yes I have a job. And guess what If my job is to only help the elite few and have no chance to get paid I would be pissed. Perhaps that job is not for you then. Now let me ask you If you have a job where you get paid under minimum wage and you have no chance at extra income while working 12+ hours a day to benefit someone else? No i've never had a job like that. Perhaps that job is not for you either then It's not like KeSPA forces their players to choose the job. And they can quit, anytime. I dont think they're allowed to join ESF teams due to the tradelock. And most of the players don't exactly have any other marketable skills. they can join foreign teams. Most of them have yet to show they are good in SC2. There is more uncertanity to it then buying an eSF player for a foreign team. they'll get famous the same way every other korean is these days. ESV weekly, TLopens...online tournaments.
Except that they're probably not allowed to play those...
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EPT
