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On August 26 2012 20:14 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 19:57 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:52 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:46 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:45 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 19:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:41 Bippzy wrote:
Interesting how public opinion slowly shifts, its as if everyone forgot about before eSF made the current move. Everyone was like "good, but they stilll shouldn't play till season 4 gsl has kespa players". They make this decision combined with ogns nice little PR announcement, and now gom is an asshole.
I would still applaud them for having the balls to do it. In this case, the ends justify the means, regardless of eSF backing out of a started tournament whereas osl never was in. Actually, nothing shifted. There's just a small vocal minority of people, probably BW fans, who have been making many comments. And you counter them with impeccable logic and reason? And what does being BW fans have anything to do with this? If they say the right things, they are still the correct side in this argument. But you have to cop out for the sake of discussion of course. I wasn't countering anything with that comment. It's just an observation. Most pro-KeSPA posts have a T1 tag on them. especially after taking the time to read all the information on the matter. You mean like the most bullshit excuse in history, i.e. that we don't have time for the GSL qualifiers and GSL? Coincidentally the exact same excuse they gave the prior GSL season? Why is the excuse so important for you? It doesn't matter one bit when KeSPA did not intend to play in the GSL4 at all. The main issue imho is that this relationship obviously lacked communication and the current status quo doesn't seem to me as being a discussed part of this partnership. KeSPA are true to their old ways, which is indeed bad for esports and should change, but ESF has the means to discipline KeSPA before it actually gets to where we are right now. In the end OGN gets fucked up big time cause their flagship tournament is jeopardized a couple of days before it starts. A tournament with set sponsorship and years of long history. Speaking of long term how do you think ESF pulling out now would affect negotiations for future OSL sponsorship.
So how should they have disciplined KeSPA? You speak about ESF and GOM not warning KeSPA. It seems like the announcement from KeSPA came out of nowhere to GOM.
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On August 26 2012 20:17 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:07 ShadeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:04 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. Hahah oh no 7 people had to prepare for 1 game each week. Professionals you heard of them? Yeah, I'm sure that Soulkey prepared his game vs Flash for a whole week... Got to practice that speedling all-in. I don't even know how can someone buy that shit about the schedule.
Who knows. They are probably practicing the counters of what happens if Flash BitByBit me with 15 SCV's, 16 SCV's, 17 SCV's. What if there's a bunker. What if Flash isn't using his keyboard. (that game and the response from him in MLG was awesome, btw)
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On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL.
WCS ended BEFORE OSL and PL Playoff start. GSL will start around that time. So no.
And Bisu complained before that he had no time to practice for MSL. At that time he was participating in PL (for his team) and MSL only. He had 1 PL game before his MSL game (2 if he was assigned the ACE match too). So yes the team required you to practice nearly 1 whole week to play 1 PL regular match. You should forget everyhing else when it comes to PL playoff.
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On August 26 2012 20:14 Sethronu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. They signed up for WCS and OSL MONTHS in advance. They prepare for the same maps as are in PL for these. OSL is the premier league that they can't ignore due to their history, while WCS is a direct cooperation with Blizzard. Seriously, you people need to stop talking out of your butts. If you don't like KeSPA for whatever reason, or lack of thereof - that's fine, but stop making up dumb shit to justify the politics of eSF. They're not angels, and they sure as hell aren't fighting for the 'good of esports' or 'rights of the players' here.
They are the players, for what else then the "right of the players" do you see them fighting?
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On August 26 2012 20:19 chisuri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. WCS ended BEFORE OSL and PL Playoff start. GSL will start around that time. So no. And Bisu complained before that he had no time to practice for MSL. At that time he was participating in PL (for his team) and MSL only. He had 1 PL game before his MSL game (2 if he was assigned the ACE match too). So yes the team required you to practice nearly 1 whole week to play 1 PL regular match. You should forget everyhing else when it comes to PL playoff.
OK. PL aside, any reason why the eliminated teams now can't play? At most a few were practicing BW due to PL's format, and it's not like you can prepare specifically for the qualifiers anyway.
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On August 26 2012 20:19 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:14 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:57 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:52 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:46 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:45 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 19:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:41 Bippzy wrote:
Interesting how public opinion slowly shifts, its as if everyone forgot about before eSF made the current move. Everyone was like "good, but they stilll shouldn't play till season 4 gsl has kespa players". They make this decision combined with ogns nice little PR announcement, and now gom is an asshole.
I would still applaud them for having the balls to do it. In this case, the ends justify the means, regardless of eSF backing out of a started tournament whereas osl never was in. Actually, nothing shifted. There's just a small vocal minority of people, probably BW fans, who have been making many comments. And you counter them with impeccable logic and reason? And what does being BW fans have anything to do with this? If they say the right things, they are still the correct side in this argument. But you have to cop out for the sake of discussion of course. I wasn't countering anything with that comment. It's just an observation. Most pro-KeSPA posts have a T1 tag on them. especially after taking the time to read all the information on the matter. You mean like the most bullshit excuse in history, i.e. that we don't have time for the GSL qualifiers and GSL? Coincidentally the exact same excuse they gave the prior GSL season? Why is the excuse so important for you? It doesn't matter one bit when KeSPA did not intend to play in the GSL4 at all. The main issue imho is that this relationship obviously lacked communication and the current status quo doesn't seem to me as being a discussed part of this partnership. KeSPA are true to their old ways, which is indeed bad for esports and should change, but ESF has the means to discipline KeSPA before it actually gets to where we are right now. In the end OGN gets fucked up big time cause their flagship tournament is jeopardized a couple of days before it starts. A tournament with set sponsorship and years of long history. Speaking of long term how do you think ESF pulling out now would affect negotiations for future OSL sponsorship. So how should they have disciplined KeSPA? You speak about ESF and GOM not warning KeSPA. It seems like the announcement from KeSPA came out of nowhere to GOM.
KeSPA announced before GSL started so it's perfectly fine for me. That GOM didn't expect the announcement doesn't mean KeSPA did anything wrong. If GOM based its business on assumption then GOM should die, really. No professionalism at all.
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On August 26 2012 20:22 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:19 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. WCS ended BEFORE OSL and PL Playoff start. GSL will start around that time. So no. And Bisu complained before that he had no time to practice for MSL. At that time he was participating in PL (for his team) and MSL only. He had 1 PL game before his MSL game (2 if he was assigned the ACE match too). So yes the team required you to practice nearly 1 whole week to play 1 PL regular match. You should forget everyhing else when it comes to PL playoff. OK. PL aside, any reason why the eliminated teams now can't play? At most a few were practicing BW due to PL's format, and it's not like you can prepare specifically for the qualifiers anyway.
Aside from screwing with GOM, the most realistic reason I can think of is KeSPA moves like a block, unlike eSF teams where the teams and sponsors have freedom individually deciding things.
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On August 26 2012 20:14 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 19:57 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:52 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:46 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:45 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 19:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:41 Bippzy wrote:
Interesting how public opinion slowly shifts, its as if everyone forgot about before eSF made the current move. Everyone was like "good, but they stilll shouldn't play till season 4 gsl has kespa players". They make this decision combined with ogns nice little PR announcement, and now gom is an asshole.
I would still applaud them for having the balls to do it. In this case, the ends justify the means, regardless of eSF backing out of a started tournament whereas osl never was in. Actually, nothing shifted. There's just a small vocal minority of people, probably BW fans, who have been making many comments. And you counter them with impeccable logic and reason? And what does being BW fans have anything to do with this? If they say the right things, they are still the correct side in this argument. But you have to cop out for the sake of discussion of course. I wasn't countering anything with that comment. It's just an observation. Most pro-KeSPA posts have a T1 tag on them. especially after taking the time to read all the information on the matter. You mean like the most bullshit excuse in history, i.e. that we don't have time for the GSL qualifiers and GSL? Coincidentally the exact same excuse they gave the prior GSL season? Why is the excuse so important for you? It doesn't matter one bit when KeSPA did not intend to play in the GSL4 at all. The main issue imho is that this relationship obviously lacked communication and the current status quo doesn't seem to me as being a discussed part of this partnership. KeSPA are true to their old ways, which is indeed bad for esports and should change, but ESF has the means to discipline KeSPA before it actually gets to where we are right now. In the end OGN gets fucked up big time cause their flagship tournament is jeopardized a couple of days before it starts. A tournament with set sponsorship and years of long history. Speaking of long term how do you think ESF pulling out now would affect negotiations for future OSL sponsorship.
What means did they have to discipline kespa before now? Before kespa pulled out of GSL4 they were acting on good faith. They could have assumed kespa would be the insular organization it has been in the past, but what would that get them except a lot of backlash?
If kespa as an organization is acting poorly this is ESF's only recourse.
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United Kingdom450 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:19 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:14 Sethronu wrote:On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. They signed up for WCS and OSL MONTHS in advance. They prepare for the same maps as are in PL for these. OSL is the premier league that they can't ignore due to their history, while WCS is a direct cooperation with Blizzard. Seriously, you people need to stop talking out of your butts. If you don't like KeSPA for whatever reason, or lack of thereof - that's fine, but stop making up dumb shit to justify the politics of eSF. They're not angels, and they sure as hell aren't fighting for the 'good of esports' or 'rights of the players' here. They are the players, for what else then the "right of the players" do you see them fighting?
Their own money, quite obviously?
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On August 26 2012 20:22 chisuri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:19 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:14 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:57 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:52 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:46 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:45 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 19:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:41 Bippzy wrote:
Interesting how public opinion slowly shifts, its as if everyone forgot about before eSF made the current move. Everyone was like "good, but they stilll shouldn't play till season 4 gsl has kespa players". They make this decision combined with ogns nice little PR announcement, and now gom is an asshole.
I would still applaud them for having the balls to do it. In this case, the ends justify the means, regardless of eSF backing out of a started tournament whereas osl never was in. Actually, nothing shifted. There's just a small vocal minority of people, probably BW fans, who have been making many comments. And you counter them with impeccable logic and reason? And what does being BW fans have anything to do with this? If they say the right things, they are still the correct side in this argument. But you have to cop out for the sake of discussion of course. I wasn't countering anything with that comment. It's just an observation. Most pro-KeSPA posts have a T1 tag on them. especially after taking the time to read all the information on the matter. You mean like the most bullshit excuse in history, i.e. that we don't have time for the GSL qualifiers and GSL? Coincidentally the exact same excuse they gave the prior GSL season? Why is the excuse so important for you? It doesn't matter one bit when KeSPA did not intend to play in the GSL4 at all. The main issue imho is that this relationship obviously lacked communication and the current status quo doesn't seem to me as being a discussed part of this partnership. KeSPA are true to their old ways, which is indeed bad for esports and should change, but ESF has the means to discipline KeSPA before it actually gets to where we are right now. In the end OGN gets fucked up big time cause their flagship tournament is jeopardized a couple of days before it starts. A tournament with set sponsorship and years of long history. Speaking of long term how do you think ESF pulling out now would affect negotiations for future OSL sponsorship. So how should they have disciplined KeSPA? You speak about ESF and GOM not warning KeSPA. It seems like the announcement from KeSPA came out of nowhere to GOM. KeSPA announced before GSL started so it's perfectly fine for me. That GOM didn't expect the announcement doesn't mean KeSPA did anything wrong. If GOM based its business on assumption then GOM should die, really. No professionalism at all.
Surely Kespa not holding it's promise to send players to every MLG as they announced is very professional.
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On August 26 2012 20:24 Sethronu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:19 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 20:14 Sethronu wrote:On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. They signed up for WCS and OSL MONTHS in advance. They prepare for the same maps as are in PL for these. OSL is the premier league that they can't ignore due to their history, while WCS is a direct cooperation with Blizzard. Seriously, you people need to stop talking out of your butts. If you don't like KeSPA for whatever reason, or lack of thereof - that's fine, but stop making up dumb shit to justify the politics of eSF. They're not angels, and they sure as hell aren't fighting for the 'good of esports' or 'rights of the players' here. They are the players, for what else then the "right of the players" do you see them fighting? Their own money, quite obviously?
How do they get money by not playing in the OSL?
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On August 26 2012 20:19 chisuri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. WCS ended BEFORE OSL and PL Playoff start. GSL will start around that time. So no. And Bisu complained before that he had no time to practice for MSL. At that time he was participating in PL (for his team) and MSL only. He had 1 PL game before his MSL game (2 if he was assigned the ACE match too). So yes the team required you to practice nearly 1 whole week to play 1 PL regular match. You should forget everyhing else when it comes to PL playoff.
How about the B teamers and pratice partners? They are not allow to participate in GSL qualifiers as well. It isnt just about the top 2-3 stars on a team. I can understand if players like Bisu or Flash not having time because of commitments to OSL and Proleague but how about those that have no chance to play in either. Kespa is basicly taking away B-teamers and pratice partners on Kespa teams from making extra income. And we all know most b teamers and practice partners get no pay or are pay like shit.
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On August 26 2012 20:25 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:24 Sethronu wrote:On August 26 2012 20:19 Sandermatt wrote:On August 26 2012 20:14 Sethronu wrote:On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. They signed up for WCS and OSL MONTHS in advance. They prepare for the same maps as are in PL for these. OSL is the premier league that they can't ignore due to their history, while WCS is a direct cooperation with Blizzard. Seriously, you people need to stop talking out of your butts. If you don't like KeSPA for whatever reason, or lack of thereof - that's fine, but stop making up dumb shit to justify the politics of eSF. They're not angels, and they sure as hell aren't fighting for the 'good of esports' or 'rights of the players' here. They are the players, for what else then the "right of the players" do you see them fighting? Their own money, quite obviously? How do they get money by not playing in the OSL?
Not to mention, they get less money, by upping the competition in the GSL =.=
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United Kingdom450 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:24 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:22 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:19 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:14 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:57 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:52 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:46 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:45 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 19:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:41 Bippzy wrote:
Interesting how public opinion slowly shifts, its as if everyone forgot about before eSF made the current move. Everyone was like "good, but they stilll shouldn't play till season 4 gsl has kespa players". They make this decision combined with ogns nice little PR announcement, and now gom is an asshole.
I would still applaud them for having the balls to do it. In this case, the ends justify the means, regardless of eSF backing out of a started tournament whereas osl never was in. Actually, nothing shifted. There's just a small vocal minority of people, probably BW fans, who have been making many comments. And you counter them with impeccable logic and reason? And what does being BW fans have anything to do with this? If they say the right things, they are still the correct side in this argument. But you have to cop out for the sake of discussion of course. I wasn't countering anything with that comment. It's just an observation. Most pro-KeSPA posts have a T1 tag on them. especially after taking the time to read all the information on the matter. You mean like the most bullshit excuse in history, i.e. that we don't have time for the GSL qualifiers and GSL? Coincidentally the exact same excuse they gave the prior GSL season? Why is the excuse so important for you? It doesn't matter one bit when KeSPA did not intend to play in the GSL4 at all. The main issue imho is that this relationship obviously lacked communication and the current status quo doesn't seem to me as being a discussed part of this partnership. KeSPA are true to their old ways, which is indeed bad for esports and should change, but ESF has the means to discipline KeSPA before it actually gets to where we are right now. In the end OGN gets fucked up big time cause their flagship tournament is jeopardized a couple of days before it starts. A tournament with set sponsorship and years of long history. Speaking of long term how do you think ESF pulling out now would affect negotiations for future OSL sponsorship. So how should they have disciplined KeSPA? You speak about ESF and GOM not warning KeSPA. It seems like the announcement from KeSPA came out of nowhere to GOM. KeSPA announced before GSL started so it's perfectly fine for me. That GOM didn't expect the announcement doesn't mean KeSPA did anything wrong. If GOM based its business on assumption then GOM should die, really. No professionalism at all. Surely Kespa not holding it's promise to send players to every MLG as they announced is very professional.
Only they did not announce that they will 'send players to every MLG', and MLG themselves admitted this wouldn't be possible with their already established schedules; they also stated they will work together to ensure such scheduling conflicts won't happen again.
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On August 26 2012 20:06 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:05 Thinasy wrote:On August 26 2012 20:04 monkybone wrote:On August 26 2012 20:01 Thinasy wrote:On August 26 2012 19:55 monkybone wrote:On August 26 2012 19:54 Sethronu wrote:On August 26 2012 19:52 skeldark wrote:On August 26 2012 19:48 Michaels wrote:
ESF are the bad guys here, you are blind and biased if you dont see it. You dont take a part in a tournament and pull out at the last minute to blackmail someone. They did it to NASL and now they are doing it to OGN. If they did it twice they will do it for the third time the question is whos their next target? They are disgusting amateurs I just can believe how anyone nonbiased can be on their side. First: sure we are biased! That is not always something bad. Second: I understand that you think the move is bad. An you are right. Without context and looking at the history, it looks bad. But we wait for 10 years now, that someone stand up against kespa politic: "WE, not our players deicide where they play". To pull out in middle of a tournament is bad, for kespa and this makes it good for me! Too bad this 'horrible' KeSPA politic has created the most spectacular Starcraft games we have ever seen, and the most impressive players came out of it. But yes, if it's bad for KeSPA then it's good for viewers. Fuck logic. Seriously no, OGN hasn't catered to the foreign audience one bit, while Gom has practically been a gift from heaven at this. They didnt shutdown the restreams during the BW-era, yeah sure they didnt make a stream for themselfs for the foreign watchers, but can you blame em? there just wasnt enough people to make it profitable i'd guess. Also they are new to the SC2 scene so can you atleast give em some time to get everything setup before you say stuff like that. What was OGN doing for the past two years while Gom was doing an excellent job at this? They need time to setup? What absolute bullshit. Except OGN was in the BW scene, not the SC2 scene? So what? BW is somehow an excuse? We're talking about their willingness to cater to a foreign audience.
Acutually, they have tried for a long time to reach out to foreigners, most Kespa and their teams have as well, but it was very hard since the language barrier was there. plus OGN is a Korean cable station, its sort of like asking CBC to broadcast in Russian, its not really worth it for them, as their isn't a big market for CBC shows in Russian.
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9070 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:19 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:14 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:57 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:52 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:46 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:45 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 19:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:41 Bippzy wrote:
Interesting how public opinion slowly shifts, its as if everyone forgot about before eSF made the current move. Everyone was like "good, but they stilll shouldn't play till season 4 gsl has kespa players". They make this decision combined with ogns nice little PR announcement, and now gom is an asshole.
I would still applaud them for having the balls to do it. In this case, the ends justify the means, regardless of eSF backing out of a started tournament whereas osl never was in. Actually, nothing shifted. There's just a small vocal minority of people, probably BW fans, who have been making many comments. And you counter them with impeccable logic and reason? And what does being BW fans have anything to do with this? If they say the right things, they are still the correct side in this argument. But you have to cop out for the sake of discussion of course. I wasn't countering anything with that comment. It's just an observation. Most pro-KeSPA posts have a T1 tag on them. especially after taking the time to read all the information on the matter. You mean like the most bullshit excuse in history, i.e. that we don't have time for the GSL qualifiers and GSL? Coincidentally the exact same excuse they gave the prior GSL season? Why is the excuse so important for you? It doesn't matter one bit when KeSPA did not intend to play in the GSL4 at all. The main issue imho is that this relationship obviously lacked communication and the current status quo doesn't seem to me as being a discussed part of this partnership. KeSPA are true to their old ways, which is indeed bad for esports and should change, but ESF has the means to discipline KeSPA before it actually gets to where we are right now. In the end OGN gets fucked up big time cause their flagship tournament is jeopardized a couple of days before it starts. A tournament with set sponsorship and years of long history. Speaking of long term how do you think ESF pulling out now would affect negotiations for future OSL sponsorship. So how should they have disciplined KeSPA? You speak about ESF and GOM not warning KeSPA. It seems like the announcement from KeSPA came out of nowhere to GOM.
Perhaps it came out of nowhere and so late cause KeSPA did not consider the consequences of their actions. Do you believe KeSPA would compromise their individual league being fully aware ESF would pull out of the OSL? That doesn't mean KeSPA are the good guys in all this or that I'm trying to defend them, but I do not believe ESF were not in control of this or had no means to prevent this from happening.
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United States6168 Posts
On August 26 2012 20:14 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 19:57 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:52 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:46 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:45 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 19:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:41 Bippzy wrote:
Interesting how public opinion slowly shifts, its as if everyone forgot about before eSF made the current move. Everyone was like "good, but they stilll shouldn't play till season 4 gsl has kespa players". They make this decision combined with ogns nice little PR announcement, and now gom is an asshole.
I would still applaud them for having the balls to do it. In this case, the ends justify the means, regardless of eSF backing out of a started tournament whereas osl never was in. Actually, nothing shifted. There's just a small vocal minority of people, probably BW fans, who have been making many comments. And you counter them with impeccable logic and reason? And what does being BW fans have anything to do with this? If they say the right things, they are still the correct side in this argument. But you have to cop out for the sake of discussion of course. I wasn't countering anything with that comment. It's just an observation. Most pro-KeSPA posts have a T1 tag on them. especially after taking the time to read all the information on the matter. You mean like the most bullshit excuse in history, i.e. that we don't have time for the GSL qualifiers and GSL? Coincidentally the exact same excuse they gave the prior GSL season? Why is the excuse so important for you? It doesn't matter one bit when KeSPA did not intend to play in the GSL4 at all. The main issue imho is that this relationship obviously lacked communication and the current status quo doesn't seem to me as being a discussed part of this partnership. KeSPA are true to their old ways, which is indeed bad for esports and should change, but ESF has the means to discipline KeSPA before it actually gets to where we are right now. In the end OGN gets fucked up big time cause their flagship tournament is jeopardized a couple of days before it starts. A tournament with set sponsorship and years of long history. Speaking of long term how do you think ESF pulling out now would affect negotiations for future OSL sponsorship.
It's entirely possible that, perhaps naively, the ESF actually expected not to need to discipline KeSPA at all. Because KeSPA did not announce that they were prohibiting their players from participating in GSL until midway through the OSL. You're right, the excuse is somewhat irrelevant - it's the actions that matter. Prior to the announcement from KeSPA, it looked like cooperation (and peace and love and goodwill towards men) was actually taking place. And then, quite suddenly, it wasn't. ESF didn't have any opportunity to react to this until KeSPA announced it - which (despite it possibly being known for weeks) they didn't do until the ESF players were already a part of the OSL.
Whereas ESF is run by players and coaches, KeSPA is run by (at present) SK Telecom (One of their upper managers is president, at least according to the website.) The differences in how the two organizations operate could possible be investigated in this light. But that's another tangent.
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On August 26 2012 20:25 boag11 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:19 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. WCS ended BEFORE OSL and PL Playoff start. GSL will start around that time. So no. And Bisu complained before that he had no time to practice for MSL. At that time he was participating in PL (for his team) and MSL only. He had 1 PL game before his MSL game (2 if he was assigned the ACE match too). So yes the team required you to practice nearly 1 whole week to play 1 PL regular match. You should forget everyhing else when it comes to PL playoff. How about the B teamers and pratice partners? They are not allow to participate in GSL qualifiers as well. It isnt just about the top 2-3 stars on a team. I can understand if players like Bisu or Flash not having time because of commitments to OSL and Proleague but how about those that have no chance to play in either. Kespa is basicly taking away B-teamers and pratice partners on Kespa teams from making extra income. And we all know most b teamers and practice partners get no pay or are pay like shit.
B-teamers are busy helping those big names practice. You need to start thinking outside the box instead of posting retarded shit.
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On August 26 2012 20:27 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:19 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 20:14 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:57 boxman22 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:52 disciple wrote:On August 26 2012 19:46 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:45 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 19:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 26 2012 19:41 Bippzy wrote:
Interesting how public opinion slowly shifts, its as if everyone forgot about before eSF made the current move. Everyone was like "good, but they stilll shouldn't play till season 4 gsl has kespa players". They make this decision combined with ogns nice little PR announcement, and now gom is an asshole.
I would still applaud them for having the balls to do it. In this case, the ends justify the means, regardless of eSF backing out of a started tournament whereas osl never was in. Actually, nothing shifted. There's just a small vocal minority of people, probably BW fans, who have been making many comments. And you counter them with impeccable logic and reason? And what does being BW fans have anything to do with this? If they say the right things, they are still the correct side in this argument. But you have to cop out for the sake of discussion of course. I wasn't countering anything with that comment. It's just an observation. Most pro-KeSPA posts have a T1 tag on them. especially after taking the time to read all the information on the matter. You mean like the most bullshit excuse in history, i.e. that we don't have time for the GSL qualifiers and GSL? Coincidentally the exact same excuse they gave the prior GSL season? Why is the excuse so important for you? It doesn't matter one bit when KeSPA did not intend to play in the GSL4 at all. The main issue imho is that this relationship obviously lacked communication and the current status quo doesn't seem to me as being a discussed part of this partnership. KeSPA are true to their old ways, which is indeed bad for esports and should change, but ESF has the means to discipline KeSPA before it actually gets to where we are right now. In the end OGN gets fucked up big time cause their flagship tournament is jeopardized a couple of days before it starts. A tournament with set sponsorship and years of long history. Speaking of long term how do you think ESF pulling out now would affect negotiations for future OSL sponsorship. So how should they have disciplined KeSPA? You speak about ESF and GOM not warning KeSPA. It seems like the announcement from KeSPA came out of nowhere to GOM. Perhaps it came out of nowhere and so late cause KeSPA did not consider the consequences of their actions. Do you believe KeSPA would compromise their individual league being fully aware ESF would pull out of the OSL? That doesn't mean KeSPA are the good guys in all this or that I'm trying to defend them, but I do not believe ESF were not in control of this or had no means to prevent this from happening.
Doesn't seem too crazy to me for the ESF to expect some form of good faith after that whole eSports vision declaration though.
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On August 26 2012 20:25 boag11 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 20:19 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 20:12 S_SienZ wrote:On August 26 2012 20:10 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 20:07 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 20:03 BgSBendeR wrote:On August 26 2012 19:58 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 18:26 Teddyman wrote:I don't think posters in this thread realize what a busy schedule the KeSPA teams have. To clarify, I have compiled the leagues each player in the 3 sponsored teams that were eliminated from PL today take part in. + Show Spoiler +
KT Rolster:
Acacia: -
Action: -
Barracks: -
Crazy-Hydra: -
Flash: OSL
Hoejja: -
Mind: -
Motive: -
PerfectMan: -
Stats: -
Wooki: -
Penguin: -
MyungSik: -
Hitman: -
Woongjin Stars:
Aria: -
Bisang: -
Flying: OSL
fokins: -
free: -
Light: -
Rudy: -
Shout: -
Sos: -
Sin: -
Soulkey: -
Woon: -
Zero: -
STX Soul:
Bogus: -
Calm: -
Classic: -
Dear: -
hyvaa: -
Last: OSL
Mini: -
Modesty: -
Shuttle: -
Size: -
Trap: WCG
Yourosia: -
I think this is an excellent post that highlights just how busy the KeSPA players are. Terrible example.. Woongjin got eliminated today,, they were practising for their pro league games before that.. KT still had proleague to practice for today even if there was no chance of making play offs., Same goes for STX. Therefore your argument is invalid. GSL qualifiers aren't for another 10 days, during which KeSPA's main complaint was that their players schedules are just too busy. Are they really too busy to play in qualifiers? You tell me. Yes because half of them are practising BW while the other half SC2. If they were all to play in GSL qualifiers, how fair would that be.. Those who were practising BW would be at a disadvantage. Not to mention the fact that kespa teams haven't made a full transition to sc2 yet. And yet they had no problem playing WCS and will play OSL which will be sooner than the GSL. WCS ended BEFORE OSL and PL Playoff start. GSL will start around that time. So no. And Bisu complained before that he had no time to practice for MSL. At that time he was participating in PL (for his team) and MSL only. He had 1 PL game before his MSL game (2 if he was assigned the ACE match too). So yes the team required you to practice nearly 1 whole week to play 1 PL regular match. You should forget everyhing else when it comes to PL playoff. How about the B teamers and pratice partners? They are not allow to participate in GSL qualifiers as well. It isnt just about the top 2-3 stars on a team. I can understand if players like Bisu or Flash not having time because of commitments to OSL and Proleague but how about those that have no chance to play in either. Kespa is basicly taking away B-teamers and pratice partners on Kespa teams from making extra income. And we all know most b teamers and practice partners get no pay or are pay like shit.
Despite the prevalence of team tags under peoples names I wouldn't be surpirsed at all if a large amount of people followed t8 because of jaedong, kt because of flash etc. The kt vs t8 games not too long ago had one or two people cheering for stats in the ace match.
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EPT
