|
On August 26 2012 22:10 Tanatos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:59 Atheist wrote:
Like I said, Kespa is idiotic and stupid. But don't come here posting as if ESF and GOM are Jesus incarnate trying to defend for the almighty right and good. Look at it from a business and even esports perspective. Money is being poured for the growth of this game. Business differences (namely that lion's share of the market) are temporarily set aside to pursue a common goal (Growth of E-fucking-Sports). This is all a miscommunication or mismanagement problem, mainly in the part of KeSPA, but ESF/GOM is jumping in on the opportunity to gain the leverage.
Personally, I think KeSPA can pull through with or without ESF/GOM. They have the talent power (you are kidding yourself if you do not think the soon to be ex-BW progamers will not trash competitive SC2 soon) and the entire Korean corporate network on their side. I am tempted to say what the real motivation is behind ESF/GOM, but I am not counting out the fact that it might just be an emotional knee-jerk reaction that is not thought out at all. Things that ESF/GOM can gain out of Kespa's GSL participation 1. Basic right of Kespa player (which you don't seem to understand at all) 2. Viewership of GSL 3. Keeping promise of May agreement 4. Reputation from Kespa. Personally I believe this is the most important thing out of all. Kespa had done exactly same thing to kill Classic before. Kespa better consider GOM as partner, not as some lower division league. GSL has to be as important as OGN starleague.
there's also two sides to the story. from what i understand kespa didn't make the decision for everyone, it was the teams and only 4 teams or so allowed their players to play and gom canceled their tournament. now, to say kespa had influence on the team's decision would be another conspiracy theory talk (ignoring licensing fiasco)...unneeded but also not to be ignored. its the reason why esf made their decision after all.
|
On August 26 2012 22:10 Tanatos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:59 Atheist wrote:
Like I said, Kespa is idiotic and stupid. But don't come here posting as if ESF and GOM are Jesus incarnate trying to defend for the almighty right and good. Look at it from a business and even esports perspective. Money is being poured for the growth of this game. Business differences (namely that lion's share of the market) are temporarily set aside to pursue a common goal (Growth of E-fucking-Sports). This is all a miscommunication or mismanagement problem, mainly in the part of KeSPA, but ESF/GOM is jumping in on the opportunity to gain the leverage.
Personally, I think KeSPA can pull through with or without ESF/GOM. They have the talent power (you are kidding yourself if you do not think the soon to be ex-BW progamers will not trash competitive SC2 soon) and the entire Korean corporate network on their side. I am tempted to say what the real motivation is behind ESF/GOM, but I am not counting out the fact that it might just be an emotional knee-jerk reaction that is not thought out at all. Things that ESF/GOM can gain out of Kespa's GSL participation 1. Basic right of Kespa player (which you don't seem to understand at all) 2. Viewership of GSL 3. Keeping promise of May agreement 4. Reputation from Kespa. Personally I believe this is the most important thing out of all. Kespa had done exactly same thing to kill Classic before. Kespa better consider GOM as partner, not as some lower division league. GSL has to be as important as OGN starleague.
From what I understand, there was no agreement regarding GSL 4, but merely a general expression or interest. In fact, it was GOM reaching out:
For our previous GSL Season 3 Code A qualifiers, we had inquired to KeSPA if their players would be allowed to participate and at the time, as scheduling was very difficult, KeSPA was not able to accommodate us. We also felt that many teams and players were still unprepared and concluded that we would request participation for the upcoming GSL Season 4.
Today, we have received an official response from KeSPA, stating that their players will, once again, not participate in the GSL Season 4 Code A qualifiers.
Kespa is only opting out. I don't know if there were any unbreakable promises made behind the scenes, but I think Kespa exercised something within its rights. Speaking of reputation, Kespa also has to protect the reputation of its players. Getting raped in GSL with its players unprepared will leave a bad impression. And there is still that "big event" that Kespa is talking about. It's all a matter of time now.
|
im so mad at this crap right now. this is exactly the kind of thing that guy from huston rockets warned us about
|
On August 26 2012 22:24 rave[wcr] wrote:
im so mad at this crap right now. this is exactly the kind of thing that guy from huston rockets warned us about
Lol and what is that? Im not sure is this is a mispost or what.
|
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him.
On August 26 2012 22:26 Atheist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 22:24 rave[wcr] wrote:
im so mad at this crap right now. this is exactly the kind of thing that guy from huston rockets warned us about Lol and what is that? Im not sure is this is a mispost or what.
No, Houston Rocket's GM was on MLG yesterday.
|
On August 26 2012 22:10 Tanatos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:59 Atheist wrote:
Like I said, Kespa is idiotic and stupid. But don't come here posting as if ESF and GOM are Jesus incarnate trying to defend for the almighty right and good. Look at it from a business and even esports perspective. Money is being poured for the growth of this game. Business differences (namely that lion's share of the market) are temporarily set aside to pursue a common goal (Growth of E-fucking-Sports). This is all a miscommunication or mismanagement problem, mainly in the part of KeSPA, but ESF/GOM is jumping in on the opportunity to gain the leverage.
Personally, I think KeSPA can pull through with or without ESF/GOM. They have the talent power (you are kidding yourself if you do not think the soon to be ex-BW progamers will not trash competitive SC2 soon) and the entire Korean corporate network on their side. I am tempted to say what the real motivation is behind ESF/GOM, but I am not counting out the fact that it might just be an emotional knee-jerk reaction that is not thought out at all. Things that ESF/GOM can gain out of Kespa's GSL participation 1. Basic right of Kespa player (which you don't seem to understand at all) 2. Viewership of GSL 3. Keeping promise of May agreement 4. Reputation from Kespa. Personally I believe this is the most important thing out of all. Kespa had done exactly same thing to kill Classic before. Kespa better consider GOM as partner, not as some lower division league. GSL has to be as important as OGN starleague.
KeSPA did not kill GOM Classic. Gretech did - by creating another tournament in an already saturated scene and then partnering up with blizzard, KeSPA's open enemy.
|
On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him.
i actually have bias against idra like many people here on kespa XD
it sure is indeed hard to change such perspectives.
|
On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 22:26 Atheist wrote:On August 26 2012 22:24 rave[wcr] wrote:
im so mad at this crap right now. this is exactly the kind of thing that guy from huston rockets warned us about Lol and what is that? Im not sure is this is a mispost or what. No, Houston Rocket's GM was on MLG yesterday.
Care to tldr here what Idra and the houston Rocket's GM said. Thanks.
|
On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him.
To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here:
Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG.
|
On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.
KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys.
It's kind of obvious, Kespa lured esf players into the OSL then pulled out of the gsl and though the esf players couldn't pull out because there were already going. Turns out esf has bigger balls than they though and Kespa can't push them around.
Let's look at what would have happened if esf didn't pull out: Kespa pulls out, gsl continues with same players, osl goin on with both sets of players, osl will become way more popular and nobody will care about the gsl. Gom once again has to shut down and OGN has monopoly over the scene again. This is obviously what kespa wants.
Kespa is pretty smart and calculated but they are the enemy to the viewer. If they win, viewers lose one of the biggest tournaments.
|
On August 26 2012 22:28 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 22:10 Tanatos wrote:On August 26 2012 21:59 Atheist wrote:
Like I said, Kespa is idiotic and stupid. But don't come here posting as if ESF and GOM are Jesus incarnate trying to defend for the almighty right and good. Look at it from a business and even esports perspective. Money is being poured for the growth of this game. Business differences (namely that lion's share of the market) are temporarily set aside to pursue a common goal (Growth of E-fucking-Sports). This is all a miscommunication or mismanagement problem, mainly in the part of KeSPA, but ESF/GOM is jumping in on the opportunity to gain the leverage.
Personally, I think KeSPA can pull through with or without ESF/GOM. They have the talent power (you are kidding yourself if you do not think the soon to be ex-BW progamers will not trash competitive SC2 soon) and the entire Korean corporate network on their side. I am tempted to say what the real motivation is behind ESF/GOM, but I am not counting out the fact that it might just be an emotional knee-jerk reaction that is not thought out at all. Things that ESF/GOM can gain out of Kespa's GSL participation 1. Basic right of Kespa player (which you don't seem to understand at all) 2. Viewership of GSL 3. Keeping promise of May agreement 4. Reputation from Kespa. Personally I believe this is the most important thing out of all. Kespa had done exactly same thing to kill Classic before. Kespa better consider GOM as partner, not as some lower division league. GSL has to be as important as OGN starleague. KeSPA did not kill GOM Classic. Gretech did - by creating another tournament in an already saturated scene and then partnering up with blizzard, KeSPA's open enemy.
"We didn't destroy you, YOU made us destroy you!" lol
|
On August 26 2012 22:48 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.
KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. It's kind of obvious, Kespa lured esf players into the OSL then pulled out of the gsl and though the esf players couldn't pull out because there were already going. Turns out esf has bigger balls than they though and Kespa can't push them around. Let's look at what would have happened if esf didn't pull out: Kespa pulls out, gsl continues with same players, osl goin on with both sets of players, osl will become way more popular and nobody will care about the gsl. Gom once again has to shut down and OGN has monopoly over the scene again. This is obviously what kespa wants. Kespa is pretty smart and calculated but they are the enemy to the viewer. If they win, viewers lose one of the biggest tournaments.
viewers are about to lose the biggest tournament. you choose.
|
On August 26 2012 22:48 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 21:24 Atheist wrote:
A lot of misguided posts here.
KeSPA was never in the GSL 4 yet, but was open to it. ESF had players in an ongoing OSL event with all the marketing, organization, and other things already in motion. KeSPA withdraws, which is bad only because there was an assumed agreement on GSL4 and because it was unexpected, but it was within their right to do so. ESF joins in the commotion and withdraw its players from the said ongoing OSL. ESF has done this before.
KeSPA is idiotic and stupid here, but the enemy is ESF. Get your heads straight guys. It's kind of obvious, Kespa lured esf players into the OSL then pulled out of the gsl and though the esf players couldn't pull out because there were already going. Turns out esf has bigger balls than they though and Kespa can't push them around. Let's look at what would have happened if esf didn't pull out: Kespa pulls out, gsl continues with same players, osl goin on with both sets of players, osl will become way more popular and nobody will care about the gsl. Gom once again has to shut down and OGN has monopoly over the scene again. This is obviously what kespa wants. Kespa is pretty smart and calculated but they are the enemy to the viewer. If they win, viewers lose one of the biggest tournaments.
Sounds like nothing but wild speculation to me. Show us the proof.
|
On August 26 2012 22:50 Luepert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 22:28 maybenexttime wrote:On August 26 2012 22:10 Tanatos wrote:On August 26 2012 21:59 Atheist wrote:
Like I said, Kespa is idiotic and stupid. But don't come here posting as if ESF and GOM are Jesus incarnate trying to defend for the almighty right and good. Look at it from a business and even esports perspective. Money is being poured for the growth of this game. Business differences (namely that lion's share of the market) are temporarily set aside to pursue a common goal (Growth of E-fucking-Sports). This is all a miscommunication or mismanagement problem, mainly in the part of KeSPA, but ESF/GOM is jumping in on the opportunity to gain the leverage.
Personally, I think KeSPA can pull through with or without ESF/GOM. They have the talent power (you are kidding yourself if you do not think the soon to be ex-BW progamers will not trash competitive SC2 soon) and the entire Korean corporate network on their side. I am tempted to say what the real motivation is behind ESF/GOM, but I am not counting out the fact that it might just be an emotional knee-jerk reaction that is not thought out at all. Things that ESF/GOM can gain out of Kespa's GSL participation 1. Basic right of Kespa player (which you don't seem to understand at all) 2. Viewership of GSL 3. Keeping promise of May agreement 4. Reputation from Kespa. Personally I believe this is the most important thing out of all. Kespa had done exactly same thing to kill Classic before. Kespa better consider GOM as partner, not as some lower division league. GSL has to be as important as OGN starleague. KeSPA did not kill GOM Classic. Gretech did - by creating another tournament in an already saturated scene and then partnering up with blizzard, KeSPA's open enemy. "We didn't destroy you, YOU made us destroy you!" lol
It has already been explained. BW progamers were already overworked with MSL, OSL and PL going on. Gretech decided to add yet another league, that was not broadcasted on the TV, had no prestige to speak of and detracted already overworked players from practice.
Despite that, many teams participated. Some decided not to. It varied from season to season. It was not a unanimous decision by KeSPA, like sc2 fanboys are trying to portray it. It was not a political decision. It might've been for SKT (closest ties with KeSPA, maybe one or two other teams too) once gretech partnered up with blizzard, which wanted to shut down BW.
It's as if some organization decided to compete with FIFA and complained they can't get teams already competing in Champions League, FA Cup and Premier League (or the equivalents) to compete in their TwitchTV streamed tournament. O_o
|
On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here:
Let me get it straight. Idra is complaining about:
1. Practice schedule that is being implemented by the teams to all its players, and that players signed for and they could get out of if they didn't want to be progamers
2. Kespa strictly implementing the rules that players know about.
Yeah, sounds legit.
|
On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG.
Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences.
|
On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences.
I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa.
|
haha i like that idra interview. kespa really has a bad reputation and everyone thinks they are up to something evil. Anyway I am curious about their big event they used as the excuse to not partake in gsl.
|
yea kespa was in the wrong. but now esf is pushing it by making them play every season of gom.
|
On August 26 2012 23:48 Diizzy wrote:
yea kespa was in the wrong. but now esf is pushing it by making them play every season of gom.
I guess they could meet in the middle ground. Kespa lets the players participate in GSL 4,5 and eSF participates in OSL. I am sure they would accept that, because after this time they still can decide wether or not to join the next OSL. depending how Kespa decides on future GSL's.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
