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On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa.
If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it.
And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general.
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On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general.
Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. And the players aren't fine with it, which is why people like Boxer and Stork talk about having a players union, and the players that got out of that situation all say they never want to go back.
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On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim.
dude, kespa people gets paid way more than GSL teams and their practice different might be only 2 hours. And kespa guys have a very clean and organized environment with sponsors caring to send their players for any medical purposes.
Kt.Violet's medical expenses are all paid by KT and same with Flash's wrist problem.
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On August 26 2012 23:48 Diizzy wrote:
yea kespa was in the wrong. but now esf is pushing it by making them play every season of gom.
why is this unreasonable
MSL is gone, there is a big hole in the schedule compared to previous years
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I am excited how this turns out.
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On August 26 2012 23:57 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. dude, kespa people gets paid way more than GSL teams and their practice different might be only 2 hours. And kespa guys have a very clean and organized environment with sponsors caring to send their players for any medical purposes. Kt.Violet's medical expenses are all paid by KT and same with Flash's wrist problem.
What fairy world do you live in where b-teamers get treated like that? Take a read of this please.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126075
And I don't think that gsl players get treated well in the slightest, however the difference between a gigantic company working people hard as fuck and not paying them, and a pc cafe working them not as hard and not paying them is massive.
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On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. And the players aren't fine with it, which is why people like Boxer and Stork talk about having a players union, and the players that got out of that situation all say they never want to go back.
Lots of people do that when they are trying to do something they dream of, artists, musicians, showmen etc. Even people trying to start a business often end up working way beyond 'normal' hours, and end up with nothing but debt to show for it. It's not like they are forced to do it, it's what they choose to do.
There's been a long time for players to do something about their conditions, and those who really couldn't stand it, switched to SC2 on release. But for all the talk about how bad it is, plenty of them are fine with doing it; they are fine with working way beyond 'normal' to try and become best at what they do. It's funny how every time someone posts a blog about 'I wanna go pro' or along these lines, all of TL rallies around it saying how it's expected to work much more and much harder than in a 'normal' job to have any chance of success - but suddenly if you do it under a corporation that guarantees you won't at least starve or something, then it's bad?
Also, you're citing Stork being 'not fine' with it, but where in his interviews has he said that the player's conditions are awful and they all hate KeSPA? All he said is that he is unhappy with the hybrid proleague format, and that decisions are made sometimes without player's input - both of these are things that could be improved, but it's hardly the same as saying, 'I hate KeSPA they treat us like shit'.
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On August 26 2012 23:58 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:57 Xiphos wrote:On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. dude, kespa people gets paid way more than GSL teams and their practice different might be only 2 hours. And kespa guys have a very clean and organized environment with sponsors caring to send their players for any medical purposes. Kt.Violet's medical expenses are all paid by KT and same with Flash's wrist problem. What fairy world do you live in where b-teamers get treated like that? Take a read of this please. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126075
A news article that is 2 years old... You think they didn't change anything in those 2 years?
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On August 27 2012 00:01 Sethronu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. And the players aren't fine with it, which is why people like Boxer and Stork talk about having a players union, and the players that got out of that situation all say they never want to go back. Lots of people do that when they are trying to do something they dream of, artists, musicians, showmen etc. Even people trying to start a business often end up working way beyond 'normal' hours, and end up with nothing but debt to show for it. It's not like they are forced to do it, it's what they choose to do. There's been a long time for players to do something about their conditions, and those who really couldn't stand it, switched to SC2 on release. But for all the talk about how bad it is, plenty of them are fine with doing it; they are fine with working way beyond 'normal' to try and become best at what they do. It's funny how every time someone posts a blog about 'I wanna go pro' or along these lines, all of TL rallies around it saying how it's expected to work much more and much harder than in a 'normal' job to have any chance of success - but suddenly if you do it under a corporation that guarantees you won't at least starve or something, then it's bad? Also, you're citing Stork being 'not fine' with it, but where in his interviews has he said that the player's conditions are awful and they all hate KeSPA? All he said is that he is unhappy with the hybrid proleague format, and that decisions are made sometimes without player's input - both of these are things that could be improved, but it's hardly the same as saying, 'I hate KeSPA they treat us like shit'.
The difference is that someone working 70 hours a week is that they will then own a fucking company, some b-teamer working 70 hours a week so that flash can play better will do nothing but increase the latters pay check. And I would never ever tell someone its a smart idea to try become a pro gamer.
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On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. And the players aren't fine with it, which is why people like Boxer and Stork talk about having a players union, and the players that got out of that situation all say they never want to go back.
If the players aren't fine with it then just quit. Remember Effort? He left and then had to beg for permission to come back. E-Sport is not big yet and those top players are making very good money in comparison to office employees. You think they will pay those B-teamers good money also? Get real. And they are paying for the food and the rent for players. In expensive cities like Seoul those expenses are very costly. The B-teamers have to reach the top spot to make some margins out but they always have the chance. Know when will they have no chance at all? When they quit. Now I don't say it's a good life but it's the best it can get. And the players are fine with it, evidence is that they didn't quit yet. They want more, they want better environment. Who doesn't? But they have to work it out gradually. Right now KeSPA offers the best and you either take it or leave it.
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On August 26 2012 23:58 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:57 Xiphos wrote:On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. dude, kespa people gets paid way more than GSL teams and their practice different might be only 2 hours. And kespa guys have a very clean and organized environment with sponsors caring to send their players for any medical purposes. Kt.Violet's medical expenses are all paid by KT and same with Flash's wrist problem. What fairy world do you live in where b-teamers get treated like that? Take a read of this please. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126075
The players can quit at any time like Effort did.
It is the asian environment, you obviously are not born under the regime of Asian parents. Even if you complain about the training conditions, they'll tell you to suck it up because that's what REAL men do. The discipline set by Kespa is the exact reason why those players can excel at pretty much anything life throw at them.
Ever heard of the music industry there?
Trust me, what goes behind those curtains are way more egregious than the progaming scene.
P.S. the working conditions of being a progaming teams FAR exceed the minimum wage jobs in S.Korea. Read on Perfectman joining KT. The man's story w/o progaming is tear inducing.
P.P.S. God I hate lazy people.
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On August 27 2012 00:03 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:58 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:57 Xiphos wrote:On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. dude, kespa people gets paid way more than GSL teams and their practice different might be only 2 hours. And kespa guys have a very clean and organized environment with sponsors caring to send their players for any medical purposes. Kt.Violet's medical expenses are all paid by KT and same with Flash's wrist problem. What fairy world do you live in where b-teamers get treated like that? Take a read of this please. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126075 A news article that is 2 years old... You think they didn't change anything in those 2 years?
It was also written in the wake of the matchfixing scandal when pretty much each and everyone was flinging shit towards KeSPA. But nah, everything there must be 100% true I'm sure.
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these threads keep getting bumped and i keep clicking them hoping for an update...
oh the torture~~
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On August 26 2012 23:58 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:57 Xiphos wrote:On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. dude, kespa people gets paid way more than GSL teams and their practice different might be only 2 hours. And kespa guys have a very clean and organized environment with sponsors caring to send their players for any medical purposes. Kt.Violet's medical expenses are all paid by KT and same with Flash's wrist problem. What fairy world do you live in where b-teamers get treated like that? Take a read of this please. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126075And I don't think that gsl players get treated well in the slightest, however the difference between a gigantic company working people hard as fuck and not paying them, and a pc cafe working them not as hard and not paying them is massive.
B teamers are treated like shit everywhere. NA/EU B-teamers play for keyboard and mouse + sometimes traveling to an event. ESF b-teamers play for food/roof. When ppl who are bad at video game start getting good salaries everyone would do it.
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On August 27 2012 00:05 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:58 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:57 Xiphos wrote:On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. dude, kespa people gets paid way more than GSL teams and their practice different might be only 2 hours. And kespa guys have a very clean and organized environment with sponsors caring to send their players for any medical purposes. Kt.Violet's medical expenses are all paid by KT and same with Flash's wrist problem. What fairy world do you live in where b-teamers get treated like that? Take a read of this please. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126075 The players can quit at any time like Effort did. It is the asian environment, you obviously are not born under the regime of Asian parents. Even if you complain about the training conditions, they'll tell you to suck it up because that's what REAL men do. The discipline set by Kespa is the exact reason why those players can excel at pretty much anything life throw at them. Ever heard of the music industry there? Trust me, what goes behind those curtains are way more egregious than the progaming scene.
My parents never worked me for 75 hours a week, maybe I missed out on something. But your right, a pop singer getting treated like shit is a good reason to treat someone else not quite as bad.
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On August 27 2012 00:04 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 00:01 Sethronu wrote:On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. And the players aren't fine with it, which is why people like Boxer and Stork talk about having a players union, and the players that got out of that situation all say they never want to go back. Lots of people do that when they are trying to do something they dream of, artists, musicians, showmen etc. Even people trying to start a business often end up working way beyond 'normal' hours, and end up with nothing but debt to show for it. It's not like they are forced to do it, it's what they choose to do. There's been a long time for players to do something about their conditions, and those who really couldn't stand it, switched to SC2 on release. But for all the talk about how bad it is, plenty of them are fine with doing it; they are fine with working way beyond 'normal' to try and become best at what they do. It's funny how every time someone posts a blog about 'I wanna go pro' or along these lines, all of TL rallies around it saying how it's expected to work much more and much harder than in a 'normal' job to have any chance of success - but suddenly if you do it under a corporation that guarantees you won't at least starve or something, then it's bad? Also, you're citing Stork being 'not fine' with it, but where in his interviews has he said that the player's conditions are awful and they all hate KeSPA? All he said is that he is unhappy with the hybrid proleague format, and that decisions are made sometimes without player's input - both of these are things that could be improved, but it's hardly the same as saying, 'I hate KeSPA they treat us like shit'. The difference is that someone working 70 hours a week is that they will then own a fucking company, some b-teamer working 70 hours a week so that flash can play better will do nothing but increase the latters pay check. And I would never ever tell someone its a smart idea to try become a pro gamer.
Or they will end up going bankrupt and lose their house and hang themselves. What, you seriously think every startup ends up being Facebook? Not every B-teamer ends up quitting, some of them actually, you know, get good - look at By.Sun for the most obvious and most recent example.
Of course you wouldn't tell someone it's a smart idea to become a progamer - just like no sane parent would tell their child it's a good idea to try to become a rockstar, or to try to start a business venture without having backup assets - but people who truly want to do it, go for it anyway - it's a decision everyone has to make for themselves. Not everyone in life gets where they are by playing it safe and doing the sensible thing, and the unfortunate reality is that not everyone gets to be a star when they grow up.
But then again, it's not like kids in eSF teams have it any better, so what is your point really? Oh, but they get to decide whether they wanna play in X tournament or not, clearly that makes it all the better. Yeah, just go look at sc2earnings site and decide for yourself, who has the better chances here.
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On August 27 2012 00:09 Sethronu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 00:04 bo1b wrote:On August 27 2012 00:01 Sethronu wrote:On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. And the players aren't fine with it, which is why people like Boxer and Stork talk about having a players union, and the players that got out of that situation all say they never want to go back. Lots of people do that when they are trying to do something they dream of, artists, musicians, showmen etc. Even people trying to start a business often end up working way beyond 'normal' hours, and end up with nothing but debt to show for it. It's not like they are forced to do it, it's what they choose to do. There's been a long time for players to do something about their conditions, and those who really couldn't stand it, switched to SC2 on release. But for all the talk about how bad it is, plenty of them are fine with doing it; they are fine with working way beyond 'normal' to try and become best at what they do. It's funny how every time someone posts a blog about 'I wanna go pro' or along these lines, all of TL rallies around it saying how it's expected to work much more and much harder than in a 'normal' job to have any chance of success - but suddenly if you do it under a corporation that guarantees you won't at least starve or something, then it's bad? Also, you're citing Stork being 'not fine' with it, but where in his interviews has he said that the player's conditions are awful and they all hate KeSPA? All he said is that he is unhappy with the hybrid proleague format, and that decisions are made sometimes without player's input - both of these are things that could be improved, but it's hardly the same as saying, 'I hate KeSPA they treat us like shit'. The difference is that someone working 70 hours a week is that they will then own a fucking company, some b-teamer working 70 hours a week so that flash can play better will do nothing but increase the latters pay check. And I would never ever tell someone its a smart idea to try become a pro gamer. Or they will end up going bankrupt and lose their house and hang themselves. What, you seriously think every startup ends up being Facebook? Not every B-teamer ends up quitting, some of them actually, you know, get good - look at By.Sun for the most obvious and most recent example. Of course you wouldn't tell someone it's a smart idea to become a progamer - just like no sane parent would tell their child it's a good idea to try to become a rockstar, or to try to start a business venture without having backup assets - but people who truly want to do it, go for it anyway - it's a decision everyone has to make for themselves. Not everyone in life gets where they are by playing it safe and doing the sensible thing, and the unfortunate reality is that not everyone gets to be a star when they grow up. But then again, it's not like kids in eSF teams have it any better, so what is your point really? Oh, but they get to decide whether they wanna play in X tournament or not, clearly that makes it all the better. Yeah, just go look at sc2earnings site and decide for yourself, who has the better chances here.
The business point I made was stupid I agree, but in the case of people having almost nothing to show then yes choice makes a gigantic difference. Tbh that really wasn't what I was arguing, I was arguing that the apparently eastern culture as presented by chisuri just wasn't realistic.
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On August 27 2012 00:07 Michaels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:58 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:57 Xiphos wrote:On August 26 2012 23:55 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:53 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 23:45 bo1b wrote:On August 26 2012 23:38 chisuri wrote:On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Not quite sure what the Houston Rockets guy said, didn't watch MLG. Those Western guys know nothing about Asian culture. No wonder they failed. That's absolutely normal conduct in Japan, SK, China, Vietnam, Singapore... We work our asses off. Too bad hah? Europa and America are so much better. Like those countries didn't start a global crisis and have no sovereign debt at all. If they want to stay on the high horse, fine. But don't call us slave. And don't come to free us. We saw how that turned out. And we saw the consequences. I agree, not getting paid the minimum wage and over working people is the sign of a good country. Strange that koreans themselves don't seem to like kespa. If you are not doing well don't expect to get paid. I thought it was the same in America and Europe? Those guys have all the rights to quit the moment they think it is unfair. Go out and do other jobs. Or don't even enter professional gaming at the first place. They knew what were awaiting them. But they still decided to compete for the top slots because that are what real men do. And I repeat, that's normal here. Don't like it? It's up to you but don't judge us if we are fine with it. And if you take what Korean netizens said then you don't know them well enough. Try to look for Korean showbiz news and you will see how the media and the netizens in Korea treat celebrities and how they hate life in general. Are you seriously saying that it's okay for people to work 13.5 hours a day 7 days a week and not get paid? I just know that you have never put in that amount of work into your job, other wise you wouldn't be making such a retarded claim. dude, kespa people gets paid way more than GSL teams and their practice different might be only 2 hours. And kespa guys have a very clean and organized environment with sponsors caring to send their players for any medical purposes. Kt.Violet's medical expenses are all paid by KT and same with Flash's wrist problem. What fairy world do you live in where b-teamers get treated like that? Take a read of this please. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=126075And I don't think that gsl players get treated well in the slightest, however the difference between a gigantic company working people hard as fuck and not paying them, and a pc cafe working them not as hard and not paying them is massive. B teamers are treated like shit everywhere. NA/EU B-teamers play for keyboard and mouse + sometimes traveling to an event. ESF b-teamers play for food/roof. When ppl who are bad at video game start getting good salaries everyone would do it.
no, that's not true
if the entire human race played starcraft 8 hours a day every day there would still be lots and lots of people who couldn't even keep their money low on 2 bases, let alone play anywhere near what's current a low master league level
you seemed to have missed the sport part of e-sport
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On August 26 2012 23:27 Atheist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 22:40 xBillehx wrote:On August 26 2012 22:27 Derrida wrote:
Idra says quite a few things about this on his interview with Hotbid, check it out guys. I completely agree with him. To make it easier for people IdrA's KeSPA talk is here: Let me get it straight. Idra is complaining about: 1. Practice schedule that is being implemented by the teams to all its players, and that players signed for and they could get out of if they didn't want to be progamers 2. Kespa strictly implementing the rules that players know about. Yeah, sounds legit.
Pow! What did he get banned for?
Anyway yes, maybe it's a cultural thing.
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On August 26 2012 23:58 Zanno wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 23:48 Diizzy wrote:
yea kespa was in the wrong. but now esf is pushing it by making them play every season of gom. why is this unreasonable MSL is gone, there is a big hole in the schedule compared to previous years
They don't force them to play every season. The ESF wants Kespa to allow all their players to decide themselves if they want to play or do not want to play in the GSL.
That's the difference. Kespa is forcing their players to not play GSL. Even the B-Teamers who could be really good at SC2 and also have the time to play some GSL but we will never know anything about them and they will never have the chance to earn some extra money because Kespa says no.
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EPT
