EPTWhy you shouldnt be playing random on ladder. - Page 7
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PersonDudeGuy
Canada47 Posts
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aviator116
United States820 Posts
On August 23 2012 10:34 PersonDudeGuy wrote: All my builds open essentially the exact same and diverge at ordinary scout times so playing against random is never dangerous for me. Playing random for the sole purpose of collecting ladder points by abusing metagame is kind of short sighted in my opinion. Playing SC2 in itself is incredibly short-sighted too you know? I mean seriously, do you honestly expect to become a pro-gamer one day? And even if you do, do you think you'll find a super stable source of income that way? Fact is, Starcraft 2 is a video game. It's a hobby, meant for entertainment, you should really only play for fun. Some people obviously need to come to grips with that. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
Lots of people pick weaker characters in fighting games, pick suboptimal specializations in MMO's, or random heroes in Moba games. If they prefer to play the game differently, let them. | ||
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TheRageKage12
United States161 Posts
On August 23 2012 10:37 aviator116 wrote: Playing SC2 in itself is incredibly short-sighted too you know? I mean seriously, do you honestly expect to become a pro-gamer one day? And even if you do, do you think you'll find a super stable source of income that way? Fact is, Starcraft 2 is a video game. It's a hobby, meant for entertainment, you should really only play for fun. Some people obviously need to come to grips with that. Nice straw man argument. EDIT: I stand corrected, I'll sit in the corner and get my head out of my ass. | ||
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aviator116
United States820 Posts
Straw man is expanding the initial statement or misinterpreting it, and then refuting your interpretation of his argument. How is my response a straw-man argument, pray tell? | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On August 23 2012 06:58 BloodNinja wrote: I play random because its fun and I play to have fun. So why shouldn't I play random and have fun? Why exactly should I care about the metagame? Its not like I plan on going pro (or even hitting GM on ladder). he wasn't directing the thread at you, he mentioned that it's directed to players who are actively trying to improve. this thread is really directed at players who think they understand all the matchups because they play random in master league, but playing a PvZ as random is completely different from actually choosing protoss and playing against a zerg who knows your protoss. so in reality, your master level PvZ isn't really master level at all because without telling your opponent what race you are in the beginning of the match, there is no way in hell the first 5 min of a R(P)vZ is the same as a normal PvZ. I guess it should be common sense for most people and maybe this thread needed to be made, I have no idea... but he's right, if you want to be competitive, dont play random. | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
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bigbadgreen
United States142 Posts
Now let people play how they want. If your only goal is to improve your play then quit when you get a random. Randoms are quite rare by ladder standards. One game lost won't crush your mmr and you won't waste your time playing what you decide is suboptimal play. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On August 23 2012 10:44 emc wrote: he wasn't directing the thread at you, he mentioned that it's directed to players who are actively trying to improve. this thread is really directed at players who think they understand all the matchups because they play random in master league, but playing a PvZ as random is completely different from actually choosing protoss and playing against a zerg who knows your protoss. so in reality, your master level PvZ isn't really master level at all because without telling your opponent what race you are in the beginning of the match, there is no way in hell the first 5 min of a R(P)vZ is the same as a normal PvZ. I guess it should be common sense for most people and maybe this thread needed to be made, I have no idea... but he's right, if you want to be competitive, dont play random. Maybe people want to see how far they can go on the ladder by only playing random? How can it be such a big deal for non-random players that they feel the need to complain about it? | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
A straw man argument is when someone builds a case against the weakest evidence provided. As common as this kind of logical fallacy is, this is not an example of one. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 23 2012 10:44 emc wrote: he wasn't directing the thread at you, he mentioned that it's directed to players who are actively trying to improve. this thread is really directed at players who think they understand all the matchups because they play random in master league, but playing a PvZ as random is completely different from actually choosing protoss and playing against a zerg who knows your protoss. so in reality, your master level PvZ isn't really master level at all because without telling your opponent what race you are in the beginning of the match, there is no way in hell the first 5 min of a R(P)vZ is the same as a normal PvZ. I guess it should be common sense for most people and maybe this thread needed to be made, I have no idea... but he's right, if you want to be competitive, dont play random. no, i think the point is that the first 3 minutes will not determine the outcome of the game. overall better player will/should win. to say PvZ and PvRZ are completely different is....completely wrong. as i've said before, best way to improve is mechanics, game sense, adapting, reacting, macro/micro, etc. NOT perfecting a build order, especially of the first 3 minutes. | ||
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PowerDes
United States520 Posts
It's a game, let people play what they want to play. | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
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freakhill
Japan463 Posts
On August 23 2012 11:02 Gamegene wrote: this is why day9 rolls a dice before every ladder session/match to see which race he'll play Day9 is not a random player. | ||
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Luepert
United States1934 Posts
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EnderSword
Canada669 Posts
That's his point. He's choosing his race randomly, without playing 'Random' I kind of agree with the OP, my first several seasons were as Random and when I got to diamond I wanted to finally choose Protoss and focus on one race. Since I was better with Protoss, I expected I'd go higher in Rank, since I wouldn't be playing my weakest Race, Terran anymore. What I actually experienced though was that within 2 weeks I had been demoted back to Platinum. Builds I thought were fine stopped working, and all of a sudden people were cheesing me with things I had never actually learned to defend. No one is going to Cannon Rush a Random, because you have to decide while blind, and if I'm Terran or Zerg it just fails. Same with like Proxy 2 gate or a 6 pool or Marine/SCV all ins or even the 1-1-1. As soon as my race was known, what I was playing against totally changed. Then it took a few weeks to actually adapt to that, change what I was doing and get back to Diamond and eventually move up in Rank. So ya, if I had it to do over, I'd still play Randomly... but I'd do something like roll a dice and then pick that race, not actually play 'Random' | ||
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FortMonty
United States63 Posts
Also, when you play random, you don't NEED the standard TvZ metagame, or the Standard PvZ metagame, unless of course you're planning on changing to 1 specific race. Random is a new match-up all in it's own, so worrying about the current metagame is useless because so long as you play random, odds are you won't be exposed to it. A Zerg player doesn't know the standard play for a TvT, guess that Zerg shouldn't play Zerg or they're falling behind in the metagame! All jokes aside, the metagame is irrelevent, no pro's literally do the same build every match up unless you're like Stephano in the redbull tourny and look what happened to him, sure he played like a beats, but he lost to MC. I think playing as a random helps your mechanics and your reactionary play very well, since you can never be sure what to expect from your opponent since you know they won't do a standard build, you have to thinm on your toes, just like them. | ||
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KarneEspada
United States72 Posts
On the contrary, playing against a random means you have to think outside the box and use your game knowledge / decision making to a fuller extent in order to win (meta styles do a lot of decision making FOR you). Relying on a metagame just to be "good" is a terrible idea, it has no long term effect on your decision making skills; it just makes you good at a build. I have 2 GM friends that are random, one of them plays standard and the other player is very unorthodox..they both are amazingly good practice partners because my decision making is tested to the fullest; I can't just rely on my build order to hold my hand. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 23 2012 12:04 KarneEspada wrote: I disagree whole heartedly. On the contrary, playing against a random means you have to think outside the box and use your game knowledge / decision making to a fuller extent in order to win (meta styles do a lot of decision making FOR you). Relying on a metagame just to be "good" is a terrible idea, it has no long term effect on your decision making skills; it just makes you good at a build. I have 2 GM friends that are random, one of them plays standard and the other player is very unorthodox..they both are amazingly good practice partners because my decision making is tested to the fullest; I can't just rely on my build order to hold my hand. You hate playing me, and you said I'm a terrible practice partner. | ||
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