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When i face random i go for 1 opening that i use in every mu which for me I play terran so I go 1 rax fe into either pure bio or mech depending on their race and just let the game flow
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On August 20 2012 00:59 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss. You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first.
It has a huge affect in pvp. Especially if the opponent 4gates. Later gateway = later cyber core = later warp gate = later units.
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On August 20 2012 00:59 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss. You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first.
then scout at 9 and go 1gate expand/3gate
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On August 20 2012 01:00 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:59 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss. You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first. It has a huge affect in pvp. Especially if the opponent 4gates. Later gateway = later cyber core = later warp gate = later units.
...people still 4gate in PvP?
Again, not really. You can hold 3gate aggression with 2 gates. All that changes is that you have more probes, as you've spent money on probes while he's spent it on a gateway.
To counter the core effect, you can not chrono probes more than once until you've scouted, and save more chrono for warp gate to get it faster.
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On August 20 2012 01:04 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 01:00 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:59 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss. You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first. It has a huge affect in pvp. Especially if the opponent 4gates. Later gateway = later cyber core = later warp gate = later units. ...people still 4gate in PvP? Again, not really. You can hold 3gate aggression with 2 gates. All that changes is that you have more probes, as you've spent money on probes while he's spent it on a gateway. To counter the core effect, you can not chrono probes more than once until you've scouted, and save more chrono for warp gate to get it faster.
4gate is still very strong in platinum/diamond. Maybe not as such in masters, but it's still a very large threat in the higher mid leagues.
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On August 20 2012 01:05 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 01:04 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:00 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:59 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss. You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first. It has a huge affect in pvp. Especially if the opponent 4gates. Later gateway = later cyber core = later warp gate = later units. ...people still 4gate in PvP? Again, not really. You can hold 3gate aggression with 2 gates. All that changes is that you have more probes, as you've spent money on probes while he's spent it on a gateway. To counter the core effect, you can not chrono probes more than once until you've scouted, and save more chrono for warp gate to get it faster. 4gate is still very strong in platinum/diamond. Maybe not as such in masters, but it's still a very large threat in the higher mid leagues.
Huh. I haven't encountered a 4gate in about 50 PvPs.
What kind of 4gate is it? The standard 1gas, or the Korean 10 gate no gas?
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On August 19 2012 21:50 justinpal wrote:If you ask me what race I am I tell you unless you are mean. 
How do we know that you aren't lying? We can't just ask most randoms, and even if they tell us, we still can't trust them. This is ladder, after all. People love free points.
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I don't really think random is that big of a deal, I just go and open as safe as I can, and sometimes i scout eariler. like I scout after depot, instead of rax.
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On August 20 2012 01:07 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 01:05 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 01:04 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:00 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:59 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss. You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first. It has a huge affect in pvp. Especially if the opponent 4gates. Later gateway = later cyber core = later warp gate = later units. ...people still 4gate in PvP? Again, not really. You can hold 3gate aggression with 2 gates. All that changes is that you have more probes, as you've spent money on probes while he's spent it on a gateway. To counter the core effect, you can not chrono probes more than once until you've scouted, and save more chrono for warp gate to get it faster. 4gate is still very strong in platinum/diamond. Maybe not as such in masters, but it's still a very large threat in the higher mid leagues. Huh. I haven't encountered a 4gate in about 50 PvPs. What kind of 4gate is it? The standard 1gas, or the Korean 10 gate no gas?
The standard 1 gas 4gate, a lot of diamond pvp is 4gate vs 4gate, so it's difficult to execute properly without the heavy micro required in pvp.
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Some random facts about me (pun intended):
1) I play Random.
2) I almost never cheese.
3) I always tell my opponent my race.
4) I really like the OPs suggestion.
5) I am on EU mid diamond - the so called casual competitive gamer. 
When I used to play Protoss I found it hard to play something middle-of-the-road-ish in the early game against random. (Actually what I did was FFE and hoping he's not P). When I play Random I think its sad if someone plays something he normally would not do. As a Random player, you almost never see hatch before pool in ZvRP, for example.
I like to play the real match ups. I just like to play them all so I play Random. I don't want to play some weird stuff like FFE in PvP. Thats why I always tell my race and thats why I like the OPs suggestion.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
All races are screwed by randoms and what openings to go for, but I'll say the least screwed race is Terran, as they can do 1rax expand (as they all do in all MUs) once they are safe from proxy gateways and other cheesy shenanigans. Zergs have it hard (especially ZvZ as randoms tend to 1base allin if they get ZvZ), Protoss do as well (especially PvZ).
Even worse than Random race is 4-player map versus a Random race, now that's a bitch there.
I do agree that the race the player is spawning with should be given to the opposing player, and the people that say that other players have to learn more, they are VOLUNTARILY choosing Random, maybe for the sake of fun, but it is not fun for others. While there are some well-mannered Random players who go "gl, hf, I'm X race", I actually applaud and thank them for that.
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I play random, top diamond (trying to break into masters), and I always tell people my race. I cheese occasionally cheese, maybe once every 15 or 20 games (my ladder sessions are usually no longer than 10 games), which imo from my perspective really isn't a problem at all, but for that one person I cheese it helps increase the stigma that randoms always cheese. Also important to note, even if I do cheese, I still tell the people my race.
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On August 20 2012 01:09 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 01:07 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:05 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 01:04 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:00 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:59 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss. You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first. It has a huge affect in pvp. Especially if the opponent 4gates. Later gateway = later cyber core = later warp gate = later units. ...people still 4gate in PvP? Again, not really. You can hold 3gate aggression with 2 gates. All that changes is that you have more probes, as you've spent money on probes while he's spent it on a gateway. To counter the core effect, you can not chrono probes more than once until you've scouted, and save more chrono for warp gate to get it faster. 4gate is still very strong in platinum/diamond. Maybe not as such in masters, but it's still a very large threat in the higher mid leagues. Huh. I haven't encountered a 4gate in about 50 PvPs. What kind of 4gate is it? The standard 1gas, or the Korean 10 gate no gas? The standard 1 gas 4gate, a lot of diamond pvp is 4gate vs 4gate, so it's difficult to execute properly without the heavy micro required in pvp.
Oh wait, are you NA?
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On August 20 2012 01:09 AKnopf wrote:Some random facts about me (pun intended): 1) I play Random. 2) I almost never cheese. 3) I always tell my opponent my race. 4) I really like the OPs suggestion. 5) I am on EU mid diamond - the so called casual competitive gamer. When I used to play Protoss I found it hard to play something middle-of-the-road-ish in the early game against random. (Actually what I did was FFE and hoping he's not P). When I play Random I think its sad if someone plays something he normally would not do. As a Random player, you almost never see hatch before pool in ZvRP, for example. I like to play the real match ups. I just like to play them all so I play Random. I don't want to play some weird stuff like FFE in PvP. Thats why I always tell my race and thats why I like the OPs suggestion.
Sorry, I never suggested anything in this thread. Other people have suggested ideas, but I haven't. I'd just like to clear that up.
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On August 20 2012 01:07 HeeroFX wrote:
I don't really think random is that big of a deal, I just go and open as safe as I can, and sometimes i scout eariler. like I scout after depot, instead of rax.
As a protoss, pretty much every time you face a random you get behind in one way or another. I have to sit a probe at my natural ramp in case of 6 pool so I can throw down a pylon, scout on 9 supply, and make damn sure I don't expand until I know what race he is.
This throws me a good bit behind and off, delaying timings by a fairly significant margin in PvP, having an improper build for PvZ and having important buildings in the front in PvT.
Randoms can beat me with shit that should not work because they are random. That is just wrong. If you enjoy playing all the races, that's fine and well, but it's unfair to have the advantage of being that unpredictable against the least flexible race.
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On August 20 2012 01:13 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 01:09 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 01:07 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:05 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 01:04 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:00 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:59 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:
[quote]
And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss. You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first. It has a huge affect in pvp. Especially if the opponent 4gates. Later gateway = later cyber core = later warp gate = later units. ...people still 4gate in PvP? Again, not really. You can hold 3gate aggression with 2 gates. All that changes is that you have more probes, as you've spent money on probes while he's spent it on a gateway. To counter the core effect, you can not chrono probes more than once until you've scouted, and save more chrono for warp gate to get it faster. 4gate is still very strong in platinum/diamond. Maybe not as such in masters, but it's still a very large threat in the higher mid leagues. Huh. I haven't encountered a 4gate in about 50 PvPs. What kind of 4gate is it? The standard 1gas, or the Korean 10 gate no gas? The standard 1 gas 4gate, a lot of diamond pvp is 4gate vs 4gate, so it's difficult to execute properly without the heavy micro required in pvp. Oh wait, are you NA?
edit: nvm, thought it was at me, lol.
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On August 20 2012 01:13 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 01:09 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 01:07 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:05 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 01:04 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:00 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:59 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:
[quote]
And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss. You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first. It has a huge affect in pvp. Especially if the opponent 4gates. Later gateway = later cyber core = later warp gate = later units. ...people still 4gate in PvP? Again, not really. You can hold 3gate aggression with 2 gates. All that changes is that you have more probes, as you've spent money on probes while he's spent it on a gateway. To counter the core effect, you can not chrono probes more than once until you've scouted, and save more chrono for warp gate to get it faster. 4gate is still very strong in platinum/diamond. Maybe not as such in masters, but it's still a very large threat in the higher mid leagues. Huh. I haven't encountered a 4gate in about 50 PvPs. What kind of 4gate is it? The standard 1gas, or the Korean 10 gate no gas? The standard 1 gas 4gate, a lot of diamond pvp is 4gate vs 4gate, so it's difficult to execute properly without the heavy micro required in pvp. Oh wait, are you NA?
Nah EU.
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On August 20 2012 01:16 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 01:13 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:09 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 01:07 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:05 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 01:04 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 01:00 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:59 Larkin wrote:On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:
[quote]
then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss. You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first. It has a huge affect in pvp. Especially if the opponent 4gates. Later gateway = later cyber core = later warp gate = later units. ...people still 4gate in PvP? Again, not really. You can hold 3gate aggression with 2 gates. All that changes is that you have more probes, as you've spent money on probes while he's spent it on a gateway. To counter the core effect, you can not chrono probes more than once until you've scouted, and save more chrono for warp gate to get it faster. 4gate is still very strong in platinum/diamond. Maybe not as such in masters, but it's still a very large threat in the higher mid leagues. Huh. I haven't encountered a 4gate in about 50 PvPs. What kind of 4gate is it? The standard 1gas, or the Korean 10 gate no gas? The standard 1 gas 4gate, a lot of diamond pvp is 4gate vs 4gate, so it's difficult to execute properly without the heavy micro required in pvp. Oh wait, are you NA? Nah EU.
Strange. I almost never play 4gates on EU.
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I always ask them wether they want to tell me their race. And if not I just go for a 9 Drone scout although this puts be a little bit behind. But it doesn't really bother me as it's such a slight disadvantage that it shouldn't effect the game after all when I play good. (I'm low Masters) At a level where such a disadvantage matters I think the player playing random deserves this little bit of an advantage as it is hard enough to play Random at GM level. (btw. even there a Dronescout @9 or so shouldn't matter that much imho)
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Random players have it harder than players who play 1 or 2 races, and have to play with 3 times the knowledge of timings and build orders. A reason you would want to play random is for the advantage that your opponent doesn't know what race you play. The disadvantage to randoms is the amount of time invested into learning all 3 races. Why would you play random on even ground and invest 2-3 times more time into learning?
In your case of PvR turning into PvZ, even if you open gate first, you can always throw down a forge then nexus after. Sure you are behind, but then you must secure small advantages which then over time accumulate into a big advantage making it even or swinging the game in your favor. Then again, why play into the meta game when you can just 4 gate if zerg double expands?
Remember that most of the time when you are playing a random (diamond and below), chances are that a Random probably doesn't have better mechanics than a player who only plays that race.
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EPT
