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On August 20 2012 00:28 Beorning wrote:
I just 10 pool any randoms I meet. If they're terran I just transition to baneling bust and all-in. I don't want to play random players, because they are not very good at whatever race they roll.
They are the same MMR as you so they are (on average) just as good as you are.
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On August 20 2012 00:24 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:21 Ogww wrote:
Untill Blizzard makes random's race visible at the beginning, I'll just proxyrax if they don't tell me their race at the beginning, if they lie I'll go something like 5rax and wish them death by cancer. Information advantage for other player is retarded, eventho as a terran player it wouldn't hurt me that much. You're only hurting yourself by doing that, Terrans especially have nothing to complain about against randoms. You seriously do 1 rax expand variations in EVERY single match up. The only thing going against a random should change is when you take your gasses.
I'm "skipping" the 10%(sth like that) games which aren't real matchup to have more time to practice real ones so can't see how I'm hurting myself. Also I like to do agressive builds and expanding behind as 1rax expanding is boring IMO.
But after all, it's not about the disadvantage I'm in, it's the retarded design by blizzard I'm against.
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On August 20 2012 00:30 VyingsP wrote:
I can understand when people whine against a Race that might have an advantage. Queen range OP ! Mules Imba ! I can't micro against forcefields...
But what I do not understand is when players whine against the only "race" that has a clear disadvantage... Yes, you have to scout early in PvR. And yes you can't FFE. So what ? Just learn to 1gate FE against Zerg.... At your level (I assume not progamer) this is not a sub optimal build.
You have to learn 4 matchups. A random player has to learn 12.
Actually, at my level - diamond, it is sub optimal as a 12 minute roach max absolutely destroys gateway expands, which is already vulnerable to early speedling. I can't prepare for the speedlings as I don't know they're zerg. That's the issue here.
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On August 20 2012 00:21 Ogww wrote:
Untill Blizzard makes random's race visible at the beginning, I'll just proxyrax if they don't tell me their race at the beginning, if they lie I'll go something like 5rax and wish them death by cancer. Information advantage for other player is retarded, eventho as a terran player it wouldn't hurt me that much. Haha i do The same
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On August 20 2012 00:33 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:29 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:21 Ogww wrote:
Untill Blizzard makes random's race visible at the beginning, I'll just proxyrax if they don't tell me their race at the beginning, if they lie I'll go something like 5rax and wish them death by cancer. Information advantage for other player is retarded, eventho as a terran player it wouldn't hurt me that much. You're only hurting yourself by doing that, Terrans especially have nothing to complain about against randoms. You seriously do 1 rax expand variations in EVERY single match up. The only thing going against a random should change is when you take your gasses. nobody should complain, as people are only hating on random because they cant do the standard shit they do 99% of the time. if people actually think they lose because they go 1gate expand rather than forge fast expand vs. a random zerg then they should really reconsider their game level That's what's funny though. Random v T literally changes NOTHING about what the Terran should be doing in standard play. 10 depot, 12 rax is still the standard in every match up regardless. The only thing that changes depending on what your opponents race is, is when you take your gas and when you drop your CC or if you need to add the second depot. Protoss are usually the one that gripe about randoms because too many of them use the FFE as a crutch in PvZ and feel helpless without it. Terran has nothing to complain about.
have to remember, though, that 80% aren't diamond or above, now i dont mean to be a dick but that's basically 80% bad players and bad players tend to not know wtf they're talking about. so naturally they'd think that forge fast expand is the only way to beat zerg because everyone does it. that's bullshit and an example of a bad player.
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This thread reeks of loser mentality. "Rather than take 5 minutes to think and adjust my play, I will just cheese every game. Because random is cheap".
What a self destructive mindset to have.
There is no situation in 1v1 SC2 that doesnt have a solution. Its ok if you cant find it, but dont be so lazy as to not even try.
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On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience.
And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that.
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On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that.
then DONT go nexus first, wtf.
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On August 20 2012 00:34 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:30 VyingsP wrote:
I can understand when people whine against a Race that might have an advantage. Queen range OP ! Mules Imba ! I can't micro against forcefields...
But what I do not understand is when players whine against the only "race" that has a clear disadvantage... Yes, you have to scout early in PvR. And yes you can't FFE. So what ? Just learn to 1gate FE against Zerg.... At your level (I assume not progamer) this is not a sub optimal build.
You have to learn 4 matchups. A random player has to learn 12. Actually, at my level - diamond, it is sub optimal as a 12 minute roach max absolutely destroys gateway expands, which is already vulnerable to early speedling. I can't prepare for the speedlings as I don't know they're zerg. That's the issue here.
Watch Adelscott play. He gateway expands every single game in PvZ and pushes at the 8min mark. If he can beat Moon with this build, you can beat a random random diamond.
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On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf.
He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss.
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I don't understand why people whine about random players, considering the various disadvantages they go through to play this as random. Going through a safer opening / being paranoid for cheese is a little tradeoff compared the mechanical difficulties of playing random.
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There's the entertainment value. Imagine how exciting it would be if a random wins a big tournament.
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On August 20 2012 00:44 Garnet wrote:
There's the entertainment value. Imagine how exciting it would be if a random wins a big tournament.
No random has probably even mmade it to a round of 64, so I doubt that will ever happen.
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On August 20 2012 00:45 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:44 Garnet wrote:
There's the entertainment value. Imagine how exciting it would be if a random wins a big tournament. No random has probably even mmade it to a round of 64, so I doubt that will ever happen.
Wasn't TLO kinda good when he played Random? And how about that one GSL guy who qualified once or twice as Random, did he ever make it past the Ro64?
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I love playing random if for no other reason then I don't have to waste so much time an the forums arguing balance.
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On August 20 2012 00:46 ChitinMan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:45 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:44 Garnet wrote:
There's the entertainment value. Imagine how exciting it would be if a random wins a big tournament. No random has probably even mmade it to a round of 64, so I doubt that will ever happen. Wasn't TLO kinda good when he played Random? And how about that one GSL guy who qualified once or twice as Random, did he ever make it past the Ro64?
I dunno. It might well have happened, but I;ve never heard of an occurence of that happening so I assumed it hasn't happened. Only 2 or 3 random players enter every MLG.
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On August 20 2012 00:46 ChitinMan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:45 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:44 Garnet wrote:
There's the entertainment value. Imagine how exciting it would be if a random wins a big tournament. No random has probably even mmade it to a round of 64, so I doubt that will ever happen. Wasn't TLO kinda good when he played Random? And how about that one GSL guy who qualified once or twice as Random, did he ever make it past the Ro64?
If you mean Gumiho, he qualified for Open Season 3 but lost in the Ro64. That was his only GSL result before he switched to Terran.
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On August 20 2012 00:46 ChitinMan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:45 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:44 Garnet wrote:
There's the entertainment value. Imagine how exciting it would be if a random wins a big tournament. No random has probably even mmade it to a round of 64, so I doubt that will ever happen. Wasn't TLO kinda good when he played Random? And how about that one GSL guy who qualified once or twice as Random, did he ever make it past the Ro64?
Gumiho was random during GSL3, however a lost in the Ro64
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On August 20 2012 00:37 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:36 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 20 2012 00:35 Tao367 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:33 Larkin wrote:
You don't have to FFE, you can Nexus first and gateway/forge wall-in if you find out that it's Zerg. Scout on 9. You make up for lost mining with a faster Nexus.
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. And what if it's protoss? Going nexus first and having no gateway/core is dead. No way to come back from that. then DONT go nexus first, wtf. He was saying, go nexus first as that's still considered relatively safe vs zerg and terran, then if you find out it's zerg go forge. But we can't do that, because the random player may be protoss.
You misunderstand. I said scout on 9 and probe up for nexus first rather than getting a forge on 13. If you see it's Zerg, get your Nexus. If you see it's Protoss your gate will be like 2 food later which doesn't have the biggest effect in the world. And if it's Terran you can still Nexus first.
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Before I stopped playing SC2 due to school and work, I played random only in Masters, and whenever my opponent asked me what race I was, I would tell them. Although this can go either way, I didn't find the need to conceal my race, but at the same time if I beat them in a straight up match with them knowing what I was before the 9 supply mark, it would just embarrassed them more. It also turns out that when I do tell them that they never BM me after I beat them regardless of what happened.
Also you should learn a single safe build that allows you to stand against all match ups, and vs random you should scouting earlier is also needed. It will throw off your game not having the same early game timings as other match ups but you still have to do it. As a protoss, if you FE you can't straight up do 14 nexus, you need to do a force first and maybe get a cannon or 2 before you build your nexus vs any match up, as all match ups can cheese early on.
Just think of the match up in the early game as learning against a 4th race.
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EPT
