EPTrandom players has to learn way more builds and different mechanics. And his opponents get a slight BO disadvantage. What I do against random is scout at 7,dosen't take that much away from my early game.
Random and its place on the ladder - Page 7
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
random players has to learn way more builds and different mechanics. And his opponents get a slight BO disadvantage. What I do against random is scout at 7,dosen't take that much away from my early game. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:12 Andr3 wrote: To everybody saying random is that hard, it's not true. It's super hard at maybe high masters/GM. You can be a solid mid master random if you have good mechanics, you only need mechanics to get that far anyway. I'm currently playing random and am at low masters, still terrible with zerg but it's going good. It's all about mechanics as I said, all that nonsense about BO's and strategy is not needed up till high masters -_- Mechanics and build orders are not completely separate concepts though. Good mechanics make it easier to execute different build orders, and practicing different build orders improves your overall mechanics as you have to remember different timings on depots, gasses etc, consciously rather than subconsciously through repetition. Not to mention also, there's also the fact that there's a completely different set of mechanics required for the 3 different races. | ||
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Vallros
Denmark64 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:19 Vallros wrote: I don't get why random players have search for matches using the random option. Just roll a dice between games and let it decide, instead of playing with an advantage that encourages coin-flip situations And I don't understand why players like you feel like playing Random encourages more coin-flip situations. Is the first minute or two THAT important to you that you feel completely pressured into all inning or playing ultra greedy once you find out what race I am? Just probe scout at 9, and play the game out standard from there. | ||
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Ogww
Finland224 Posts
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Saat
France65 Posts
Furthermore, Tao367, ur logic is pretty unbelievable. If i had difficulties agaisnt zerg, and that you play zerg "Also, that is your choice to do that, you have the option of queueing as zerg or an other race, so why should I care?" Unfortunately, you have an opponant in SC2. You should play agaisnt bots, maybe. | ||
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LOLingBuddha
Netherlands697 Posts
for P, pylon scout, if by the time you place a gateway, forge or nexus you still havent found your opponent there are plenty of choices that you can make without gimping your build too much. i dont really understand why its such a big problem that people get so emotional about it. same for the other races imo. but then again i am only a platinum player, mostly play random because i like the variety. never had people ask me my race, dont experience much cheese etc. most games i play just end up being 17-30 min macro games. ive actually had more compliments then BM while playing random.. i guess i'm just lucky? random vs random is pretty fun actually, playing vs more randoms just forced me to scout more and get used to scouting period, no matter what my race is or their race is. i realise im just platinum and not masters where the tighter build orders matter more to some degree but im not convinced simply facing a random player and not knowing their race for the first couple minutes is severe enough to just give up the game and hope for a non-random opponent in the next game. | ||
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
If a random person tells me their race when we start i dont mind (i believe apollo does this every game) otherwise i just cheese as 9/10 times im massively behind. | ||
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convention
United States622 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:15 Abusion wrote: The only problem I have with random when I play against them as toss is that I have to gate expand against zerg and the zerg knowing this can speedling expand and deny the expansion forever. Against PvP and PvT its not a big deal but gate expanding is just absolutely terrible vs a zerg that knows you're doing it. When I play random as zerg against protoss, I never lose to protoss that doesn't know my race because of stuff like this. If they try a delayed FFE, a roach max is impossible to stop. Like other people in this thread, I will say my race if I don't get flamed in the first 10s of the game. However, getting flamed for playing random is pretty common, so I usually take my advantage. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:21 Ogww wrote: Untill Blizzard makes random's race visible at the beginning, I'll just proxyrax if they don't tell me their race at the beginning, if they lie I'll go something like 5rax and wish them death by cancer. Information advantage for other player is retarded, eventho as a terran player it wouldn't hurt me that much. You're only hurting yourself by doing that, Terrans especially have nothing to complain about against randoms. You seriously do 1 rax expand variations in EVERY single match up. The only thing going against a random should change is when you take your gasses. | ||
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Beorning
United States243 Posts
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LOLingBuddha
Netherlands697 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:28 Beorning wrote: I just 10 pool any randoms I meet. If they're terran I just transition to baneling bust and all-in. I don't want to play random players, because they are not very good at whatever race they roll. apparantly they are good enough to be at the same level as you playing your race to be matched against you on the ladder, your statement is full of assumptions. | ||
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Tom Cruise
Denmark482 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:24 Vindicare605 wrote: You're only hurting yourself by doing that, Terrans especially have nothing to complain about against randoms. You seriously do 1 rax expand variations in EVERY single match up. The only thing going against a random should change is when you take your gasses. nobody should complain, as people are only hating on random because they cant do the standard shit they do 99% of the time. if people actually think they lose because they go 1gate expand rather than forge fast expand vs. a random zerg then they should really reconsider their game level | ||
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VyingsP
France174 Posts
But what I do not understand is when players whine against the only "race" that has a clear disadvantage... Yes, you have to scout early in PvR. And yes you can't FFE. So what ? Just learn to 1gate FE against Zerg.... At your level (I assume not progamer) this is not a sub optimal build. You have to learn 4 matchups. A random player has to learn 12. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:28 Beorning wrote: I just 10 pool any randoms I meet. If they're terran I just transition to baneling bust and all-in. I don't want to play random players, because they are not very good at whatever race they roll. If you firmly believe that why bother going for an easily holdable all in? You're just hurting your own win loss ratio that way. If you're truly the better player it's in your own best interest to drag it out into the later game. 10 pool baneling bust is stupidly all in, if the player is truly worse than you, you're basically handing him a free win if he knows how to hold it. | ||
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Kasu
United Kingdom345 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:23 Artimo wrote: ive actually had more compliments then BM while playing random.. i guess i'm just lucky? I'm not sure. The vast majority of my opponents when I play random just scout a little earlier and then play standard. I think there's just a vocal minority who are upset that they have to do that. Certainly when I play single-race and meet random I'm happy to either use a safer build or adjust one as I go. If the worst comes to the worst and they use their info advantage to cheese me (because the advantage only lasts for the early game), big deal -12 ladder points. | ||
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Mirham
Denmark44 Posts
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MrF
United States320 Posts
TLDR in a perfect world randoms would have their race shown at the load screen but its not and c'est la vie | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On August 20 2012 00:29 Tom Cruise wrote: nobody should complain, as people are only hating on random because they cant do the standard shit they do 99% of the time. if people actually think they lose because they go 1gate expand rather than forge fast expand vs. a random zerg then they should really reconsider their game level That's what's funny though. Random v T literally changes NOTHING about what the Terran should be doing in standard play. 10 depot, 12 rax is still the standard in every match up regardless. The only thing that changes depending on what your opponents race is, is when you take your gas and when you drop your CC or if you need to add the second depot. Protoss are usually the one that gripe about randoms because too many of them use the FFE as a crutch in PvZ and feel helpless without it. Terran has nothing to complain about. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
Also, ZvR(Z) is a huuuuuuuge issue as well, from my experience. | ||
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