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On August 19 2012 23:18 BeeNu wrote:
As others have stated, Random players have an inherent advantage at the start of the game due to knowing the race of their opponent while their opponent doesn't know their race. Now I know a lot of Random players have told me that "but it's fair because we have to learn all three races huehueheu" which is a bullshit argument and you know it. If you're going to put yourself at a disadvantage by splitting your attention between 3 races then so be it, but it's still not right to put your opponent at an inherent disadvantage to "balance" it out because no matter how you slice it if you play random you will not ever get "real" or "normal" games and you're aren't ever actually learning all 3 races anyways, you're just getting small windows to what playing all 3 races is like. I've played Random myself a fair bit too but I don't delude myself by thinking I'm not giving myself an unfair advantage, I am giving myself an unfair advantage if I play random and I damn well know it. But when I do play random, probably 80% of the matches are cheese, this is entirely different than if I were to just randomly "pick" races because everyone uses fucked up build orders and absurd cheeses and it's an entirely different ladder experience.
Imo Blizzard should leave random except once the game starts it should show your opponent which race you have been given, but till then if you play random just know and accept that you're playing the game by giving yourself an unfair advantage, don't lie to yourself and convince yourself it's anything but.
"I'm mad because people want to have fun and interesting games full of crazy shit because one person's race was hidden. How DARE they play their game like that!"
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This topic is pretty funny.
Those who got the idea of removing random are just....Strange.
I play random, only macro, and i don't tell my race excepted if it is nicely asked.
Why ? Because i'm sorry, but i've to understand 9 mu. That's the point. U can say "Blablabla, you have to, but the opponent goes with bad opening in order to be safe".
Ok. Maybe. But he played 3x more games than me with a race, if i beat him because he did not the best opening, it's because i'm better.
I've 2000 games. If i play agaisnt something with 700 games only, i can make a non optimal opening, if i lost, he deserves his win, and he is definitely better than me.
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On August 19 2012 23:33 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:31 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 19 2012 23:29 Tao367 wrote:On August 19 2012 23:26 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 19 2012 23:19 Tao367 wrote:On August 19 2012 23:16 CrUnKeD wrote:
While the metagame evolves random players have to evolve all 3 races, which creates much more combination of m/u types. Random players have a clear disadvantage because of that. If you can't ffe, do 3gate expo with pressure....deny their 3rd....get your immortals and sentrys up and you will have the upper hand. Except the meta game is very rarely played in RvX matchups And you know that from what experience? In a vast majority of my games the game plays out according to the trending metagame. I know from my experience. Me saying that is exactly the same as you saying: In a vast majority of my games the game plays out according to the trending metagame. Except your experience means far less than mine because I'm a random player. So 100% of my games are RvX, vs the what? 10% (if that) of your games that are PvR? It's a numbers thing my friend. I've played far more random games than you have. I have a much bigger pool of experience to pull from. Fair enough, but that doesn't stop me from having an experience and expressing my grievances with randoms. And really, for this particular argument, the number of games played doesn't matter. All I'm saying is the majority of my random games played are not played to the meta game, and you are saying yours are. It doesn't matter how many each of us play.
I don't mind you expressing your opinion based off of your experience, what I have a problem with is using your minor amount of experience vs random to campaign for a change to the ladder that puts players like me at a fundamental disadvantage just because you don't like gateway expanding vs Zergs in a very small amount of games.
I didn't do anything to you to deserve that, why are you campaigning for something that would hurt my ladder experience?
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On August 19 2012 23:21 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:01 Dfgj wrote:
Master league random here.
I'd rather have my race displayed or something so I can play a straight-up game rather than deal with people who just cheese/play suboptimally because they have to. I've never understood this, if you actually want a real ladder experience then why don't you just roll dice or something to pick your race every match.
A dice has 6 sides, not 3. It's impossible to make a 3-side-dice. XD
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I 6 pool every random player they never reveal their race and cheese a lot big waste of time.
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On August 19 2012 23:35 ChitinMan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:18 BeeNu wrote:
As others have stated, Random players have an inherent advantage at the start of the game due to knowing the race of their opponent while their opponent doesn't know their race. Now I know a lot of Random players have told me that "but it's fair because we have to learn all three races huehueheu" which is a bullshit argument and you know it. If you're going to put yourself at a disadvantage by splitting your attention between 3 races then so be it, but it's still not right to put your opponent at an inherent disadvantage to "balance" it out because no matter how you slice it if you play random you will not ever get "real" or "normal" games and you're aren't ever actually learning all 3 races anyways, you're just getting small windows to what playing all 3 races is like. I've played Random myself a fair bit too but I don't delude myself by thinking I'm not giving myself an unfair advantage, I am giving myself an unfair advantage if I play random and I damn well know it. But when I do play random, probably 80% of the matches are cheese, this is entirely different than if I were to just randomly "pick" races because everyone uses fucked up build orders and absurd cheeses and it's an entirely different ladder experience.
Imo Blizzard should leave random except once the game starts it should show your opponent which race you have been given, but till then if you play random just know and accept that you're playing the game by giving yourself an unfair advantage, don't lie to yourself and convince yourself it's anything but. "I'm mad because people want to have fun and interesting games full of crazy shit because one person's race was hidden. How DARE they play their game like that!"
That isn't what he is saying. Yes, some people play random because they want to have fun in "games full of crazy shit" as you say, but other people want to practice the meta game (which includes cheese), which cannot be done vs random. I think the biggest problem is really the 4 player maps and getting unlucky scouting. Lings can be in your base (or any cheese) before you have a chance to properly react to it. If the opponent queues zerg on a 4 player map, at least you know a 6 pool is a possibility.
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On August 19 2012 23:36 Ludwigvan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:21 BeeNu wrote:On August 19 2012 23:01 Dfgj wrote:
Master league random here.
I'd rather have my race displayed or something so I can play a straight-up game rather than deal with people who just cheese/play suboptimally because they have to. I've never understood this, if you actually want a real ladder experience then why don't you just roll dice or something to pick your race every match. A dice has 6 sides, not 3. It's impossible to make a 3-side-dice. XD
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/04ds3.JPG)
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On August 19 2012 23:36 Ludwigvan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:21 BeeNu wrote:On August 19 2012 23:01 Dfgj wrote:
Master league random here.
I'd rather have my race displayed or something so I can play a straight-up game rather than deal with people who just cheese/play suboptimally because they have to. I've never understood this, if you actually want a real ladder experience then why don't you just roll dice or something to pick your race every match. A dice has 6 sides, not 3. It's impossible to make a 3-side-dice. XD
1-2 = T
3-4 = P
5-6 = Z
Just a thought. /shrug.
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Guys, seriously, random with same MMR than you are just better than you, if they aren't cheeser. If u loose, accept it. If they focused a race, i'm pretty sure u can add a division to their true level. So, accept it.
I may add that : Are there a lot of pro who plays random ? Because if i listen you, it's so imba...
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On August 19 2012 23:36 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:33 Tao367 wrote:On August 19 2012 23:31 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 19 2012 23:29 Tao367 wrote:On August 19 2012 23:26 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 19 2012 23:19 Tao367 wrote:On August 19 2012 23:16 CrUnKeD wrote:
While the metagame evolves random players have to evolve all 3 races, which creates much more combination of m/u types. Random players have a clear disadvantage because of that. If you can't ffe, do 3gate expo with pressure....deny their 3rd....get your immortals and sentrys up and you will have the upper hand. Except the meta game is very rarely played in RvX matchups And you know that from what experience? In a vast majority of my games the game plays out according to the trending metagame. I know from my experience. Me saying that is exactly the same as you saying: In a vast majority of my games the game plays out according to the trending metagame. Except your experience means far less than mine because I'm a random player. So 100% of my games are RvX, vs the what? 10% (if that) of your games that are PvR? It's a numbers thing my friend. I've played far more random games than you have. I have a much bigger pool of experience to pull from. Fair enough, but that doesn't stop me from having an experience and expressing my grievances with randoms. And really, for this particular argument, the number of games played doesn't matter. All I'm saying is the majority of my random games played are not played to the meta game, and you are saying yours are. It doesn't matter how many each of us play. I don't mind you expressing your opinion based off of your experience, what I have a problem with is using your minor amount of experience vs random to campaign for a change to the ladder that puts players like me at a fundamental disadvantage just because you don't like gateway expanding vs Zergs in a very small amount of games. I didn't do anything to you to deserve that, why are you campaigning for something that would hurt my ladder experience?
Nowhere in the OP did I suggest any changes to the mechanics, nor am I campaigning. I simply created the thread for a discussion on the topic, providing my opinion at the same time.
Secondly, this is not a "ALL RANDOM PLAYERS SHOULD DIE" thread, I am creating this to have a discussion and get the opinions of other mature players.
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On August 19 2012 23:38 Tom Cruise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:36 Ludwigvan wrote:On August 19 2012 23:21 BeeNu wrote:On August 19 2012 23:01 Dfgj wrote:
Master league random here.
I'd rather have my race displayed or something so I can play a straight-up game rather than deal with people who just cheese/play suboptimally because they have to. I've never understood this, if you actually want a real ladder experience then why don't you just roll dice or something to pick your race every match. A dice has 6 sides, not 3. It's impossible to make a 3-side-dice. XD
Nobody should play random, if he has to buy these ugly fellows!
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I don't think it's possible to please everyone. Some people like variety or an extra challenge, and will enjoy the elements of those that playing for or against random brings. Some just want to play the game the exactly the way they want it played, and will resent the way random alters that.
Whatever system you use, some people are going to be happy with it and some aren't.
That said, I think having an option to display the random player's race to both players when the game is loading would be the best fit.
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pick a race if you want any sympathy or respect. you are not only wasting your own time, but that of others that care far more than you clearly do.
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On August 19 2012 23:37 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:35 ChitinMan wrote:On August 19 2012 23:18 BeeNu wrote:
As others have stated, Random players have an inherent advantage at the start of the game due to knowing the race of their opponent while their opponent doesn't know their race. Now I know a lot of Random players have told me that "but it's fair because we have to learn all three races huehueheu" which is a bullshit argument and you know it. If you're going to put yourself at a disadvantage by splitting your attention between 3 races then so be it, but it's still not right to put your opponent at an inherent disadvantage to "balance" it out because no matter how you slice it if you play random you will not ever get "real" or "normal" games and you're aren't ever actually learning all 3 races anyways, you're just getting small windows to what playing all 3 races is like. I've played Random myself a fair bit too but I don't delude myself by thinking I'm not giving myself an unfair advantage, I am giving myself an unfair advantage if I play random and I damn well know it. But when I do play random, probably 80% of the matches are cheese, this is entirely different than if I were to just randomly "pick" races because everyone uses fucked up build orders and absurd cheeses and it's an entirely different ladder experience.
Imo Blizzard should leave random except once the game starts it should show your opponent which race you have been given, but till then if you play random just know and accept that you're playing the game by giving yourself an unfair advantage, don't lie to yourself and convince yourself it's anything but. "I'm mad because people want to have fun and interesting games full of crazy shit because one person's race was hidden. How DARE they play their game like that!" That isn't what he is saying. Yes, some people play random because they want to have fun in "games full of crazy shit" as you say, but other people want to practice the meta game (which includes cheese), which cannot be done vs random. I think the biggest problem is really the 4 player maps and getting unlucky scouting. Lings can be in your base (or any cheese) before you have a chance to properly react to it. If the opponent queues zerg on a 4 player map, at least you know a 6 pool is a possibility.
So play safe. I think all conservative, safe expand builds will deal with an early pool, or other shenanigans, pretty well, and by the time you scout out his race and what he's doing, you can react to deal with his race specific cheeses that worry you. Like, if you're P, 1 gate FE. Lings come! Chrono out that zealot, mineral-walk your workers, and deal with it. Or lings never come, you scout him out, he's T. Expand, and make sure to check for proxy X or Y, and make sure your sim city at your nat is able to deal with early/2 base Terran all-ins. Just play safe, like you should always be doing anyways, and you'll win. Unless for that day you're hell bent on learning this specific cheese god damn it, then just cheese and chalk it up as a learning experience no matter how it turns out
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On August 19 2012 23:38 Tom Cruise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:36 Ludwigvan wrote:On August 19 2012 23:21 BeeNu wrote:On August 19 2012 23:01 Dfgj wrote:
Master league random here.
I'd rather have my race displayed or something so I can play a straight-up game rather than deal with people who just cheese/play suboptimally because they have to. I've never understood this, if you actually want a real ladder experience then why don't you just roll dice or something to pick your race every match. A dice has 6 sides, not 3. It's impossible to make a 3-side-dice. XD
That die has 5 sides.
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On August 19 2012 23:42 multiversed wrote:
pick a race if you want any sympathy or respect. you are not only wasting your own time, but that of others that care far more than you clearly do.
>paid $60 for a video game
>discover a fun way to play it
>suddenly lose all respect and aympathy from other players of the same game
>I suddenly also don't care about the game
...Proceed with this dazzling display of logic, please
EDIT: Spelling fixes >_<
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On August 19 2012 23:42 multiversed wrote:
pick a race if you want any sympathy or respect. you are not only wasting your own time, but that of others that care far more than you clearly do.
haha.
Posts like these are just evidence that you're the kind of player that would never respect an opponent online win or lose.
Good mannered players don't make trash posts like this. Clearly you're the one with a sportsmanship problem.
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On August 19 2012 23:42 multiversed wrote:
pick a race if you want any sympathy or respect. you are not only wasting your own time, but that of others that care far more than you clearly do.
Don't be an idiot.
User was warned for this post
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On August 19 2012 23:44 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:42 multiversed wrote:
pick a race if you want any sympathy or respect. you are not only wasting your own time, but that of others that care far more than you clearly do. haha. Posts like these are just evidence that you're the kind of player that would never respect an opponent online win or lose. Good mannered players don't make trash posts like this. Clearly you're the one with a sportsmanship problem.
Furthermore i guess he is awful with 2 races. :D
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On August 19 2012 23:44 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 23:42 multiversed wrote:
pick a race if you want any sympathy or respect. you are not only wasting your own time, but that of others that care far more than you clearly do. haha. Posts like these are just evidence that you're the kind of player that would never respect an opponent online win or lose. Good mannered players don't make trash posts like this. Clearly you're the one with a sportsmanship problem.
you should look up the definition of the word evidence. perhaps also the words ego, compensate, and justify.
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EPT
