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On August 23 2012 06:03 FortMonty wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 05:08 P7GAB wrote:
Yeah guys111!!1! Lets lie about our race to players so that we can watch them do non viable builds and then call them 1 trick ponies!! Technically if I lied about my race that doesn't mean I'm going to do the same build lol. 1 trick pony measn that all toss want to do is FFE vs Zerg but because I'm Random, they can't safely do so. Sorry, but you should learn the 3 gate Expand or a 1 Gate expand and suck it up. No sense in being a god damn cry baby cause you can't hide beind your cannons. I also only sometimes do that since 80% of the people I play against don't believe me anyway so what's it matter lol. You guys are so cute with your QQ about random being SOOOO advantageous in the beginning because 1 of the 9 possible match ups that a random faces is thrown off somewhat. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for people who are scared to experiement rather than practice what they saw MC do.
I play terran.... And your a scumbag who needs to try to trick your opponents by lying to them in order tO win
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I dont understand your problems guys.
All information i need i get in the loading screen. Random!
He most likely knows one all-in for each race. Eco (most cases) or unit allin (some cases).
So you already know his strategies, whats more important than his race.
So or so its countered by an unit allin yourself.
Normally 1 base builds on this big maps dont work any-more but normal random player dont adjust to their opponent.
There are some very few random players out there that are able to play the races.
So you will autoloose because of their advantage and your 1 base allin.
But you still have over 90% winratio vs random this way.
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On August 23 2012 06:07 P7GAB wrote:
I play terran.... And your a scumbag who needs to try to trick your opponents by lying to them in order tO win
Maybe I'm a scumbag who occasionally lies to my opponents to trick them, but being naieve shouldn't be rewarded. I think you're a cry baby who needs to know every little detail about your opponent because you can't think of something clever yourself. Random opens a whole new dynamic to the game, it can even revolutionize the metagame by forcing players to play outside of their comfort zone and think of new amazing builds and strategies that you never would've thought to try because they didn't "seem" feasible.
I personally just like to add a little anarchy, throw a wrench in the machine and spill paint on the plans of the average SC2 player who just wants to do their same old normal, BORING build game in and game out. Improvize, break past your comfort zone and think of something new, in the end, people say random players are sneaky because they want ladder points, but aren't all of you QQing because you're taking the bait and losing yours?
By the way, I don't actually direct any of this to the OP, far as I can see he's not really QQing perse, but I do think he shoould try to improvize rather than complain, if you can call it a complaint.
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There is a difference between using the rules of the game as it is designed (random race not telling the opponent), and actively lying to people just to get your jollies off. Maybe "being naieve shouldn't be rewarded," but neither should being a dick.
I'd much rather there be more "naieve" players than jerks.
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Tbh, I don't like to play against random either. It's just the fact that you (at least with Toss) have to 9 scout which completly messes up your normal bo's - and if you now saying you 9scout in PvZ, this is by no means the same, because you won' go FFE when in 2 out of 3 cases your not playing PvZ - and you often have to pull a 2nd probe to scout for proxys, which in my experience is like more then 80% the case (mid-high dia on eu).
Also I never trust people on ladder, so I have no intention to believe him if he tells me what race he plays or pretends to be.
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On August 23 2012 06:50 NicolBolas wrote:
There is a difference between using the rules of the game as it is designed (random race not telling the opponent), and actively lying to people just to get your jollies off. Maybe "being naieve shouldn't be rewarded," but neither should being a dick.
I'd much rather there be more "naieve" players than jerks.
Sure, but then again, for every time I lie there 3 more times that I actually told them honestly. So in the end, it says you really shouldn't trust what a random player says in general. This all is irrelevent anyway since I would rather people simply learn to play in a way that has either high risk or high reward or absolute safety for the cost of being less optimal. Starcraft 2 is not meant to cater to players who are unwilling to change their style in reaction to the course of a game. Not to mention the majority of people who play against random cheese or all in anyway, so they play a completely unstandard piss poor way and are usually more BM to random players at all, so my little tricks are my way of getting back at people who act like scumbags to randoms.
Either way, I enjoy the unpredictability of playing random and I DO enjoy messing with peoples heads by telling a lie or telling the truth. I'm happy to be considered a "jerk" if it means people will be less gullible and a bit more alert. Oh and the next time you play a terran or zerg, or a Protoss, be sure to ask them what build they're opening with and what they intend to do that game, cause that's essentially what you're asking a random player every time you ask them their race.
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the funny thing is, i love how so many of you guys already have an image of random players.
opponent scouts my base and only sees depo or pylon.
i say: "~_^"
opponent goes nuts finding hidden rax/gate somewhere while i happily 14cc or nexus first.
its fun indeed.
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I play as random and have no trouble spawning Protoss vs Random, just learn to Gateway expand. It's safe vs everything, and doesn't make you behind (13 Gate, scout, 17 Nexus).
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On August 23 2012 07:18 Ragnarok_1er wrote:
I play as random and have no trouble spawning Protoss vs Random, just learn to Gateway expand. It's safe vs everything, and doesn't make you behind (13 Gate, scout, 17 Nexus).
Yeah that's safe against an 11gate to 3warpgate pressure on a 4 player map.
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As a Protoss player, I just quit the game against random. Its not worth the few points or whatever to have an entirely illegitimate game.
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1 gate expand is perfectly valid vs a random player, because for one, the 11 gate into 3 gate pressure is not only very hard to pull off without extensive practice (So less likely a random layer who has not had the opportunity for such practice to actually perfect it) it's also perfectly valid to go 1 gate expo or go into Sase's 2 gate aggressive expo or even into a 3 gate robo which 1 gate allows you to do. You can account for all match ups by simply 1 gating expand and scouting your opponent. Are there some difficulties that COULD arise from playing a random like for instance, you being a Protoss against a Random Zerg, and you happen to scout them last on a 4 player map and they Happen to be doing an incredibly aggressive build or an incredibly greedy build that you can no longer punish. sure, those situations can arise, but let's be reasonable, those are very unlikely to take place too often and you're still not in an absolute Terrible state if they do.
As for the players who just leave games because they don't want to play an illigitimate game, I can't wait for the day a random goes to MLG and starts claning house or a GSL or such and those players get a good wake up call. Like I said before, people are just too scared to break past their comfort zone and try something clever, they'd rather give up then try something new, such an unprogressive bunch.
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It's funny that lots of people think random doesn't have to deal with cheese.
Everyone hates playing against random, so they cheese random. Random has to really really be careful that people aren't hiding some cheese. It's especially hard against Terran, because they wall their base in and you can't tell if they are going 1rax cc or taking gas.
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On August 19 2012 21:53 FaCE_1 wrote:
i play random (mid-diamond) and I don't cheese much then anyone (pretty rarely). But i won't tell my race if someone ask.
When I meet random players who don't tell me what race they are I just proxy rax or do some weird giant 1-base Marine timing and move on with my day. It's obnoxious when Random players refuse to tell what race they are on the ladder, and I can only imagine it's worse for people who play Protoss (due to PvZ early game being far different than PvT and PvP).
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On August 23 2012 06:07 P7GAB wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 06:03 FortMonty wrote:On August 23 2012 05:08 P7GAB wrote:
Yeah guys111!!1! Lets lie about our race to players so that we can watch them do non viable builds and then call them 1 trick ponies!! Technically if I lied about my race that doesn't mean I'm going to do the same build lol. 1 trick pony measn that all toss want to do is FFE vs Zerg but because I'm Random, they can't safely do so. Sorry, but you should learn the 3 gate Expand or a 1 Gate expand and suck it up. No sense in being a god damn cry baby cause you can't hide beind your cannons. I also only sometimes do that since 80% of the people I play against don't believe me anyway so what's it matter lol. You guys are so cute with your QQ about random being SOOOO advantageous in the beginning because 1 of the 9 possible match ups that a random faces is thrown off somewhat. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for people who are scared to experiement rather than practice what they saw MC do. I play terran.... And your a scumbag who needs to try to trick your opponents by lying to them in order tO win
On August 23 2012 07:54 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 21:53 FaCE_1 wrote:
i play random (mid-diamond) and I don't cheese much then anyone (pretty rarely). But i won't tell my race if someone ask. When I meet random players who don't tell me what race they are I just proxy rax or do some weird giant 1-base Marine timing and move on with my day. It's obnoxious when Random players refuse to tell what race they are on the ladder, and I can only imagine it's worse for people who play Protoss (due to PvZ early game being far different than PvT and PvP).
You shouldn't be asking in the first place. Your opponent isn't obligated to tell you anything at all (besides glhf and gg unless they want to be rude). Why should they? If you asked them what their strategy/build is going to be, would you expect them answer truthfully? And announce whenever they were going to drop you and attack you ten seconds beforehand? Of course not. Deception isn't just accepted in a strategy game, it's encouraged. Play to win.
There is only one proper answer to the question of race.
"Scout it"
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On August 23 2012 07:54 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 06:07 P7GAB wrote:On August 23 2012 06:03 FortMonty wrote:On August 23 2012 05:08 P7GAB wrote:
Yeah guys111!!1! Lets lie about our race to players so that we can watch them do non viable builds and then call them 1 trick ponies!! Technically if I lied about my race that doesn't mean I'm going to do the same build lol. 1 trick pony measn that all toss want to do is FFE vs Zerg but because I'm Random, they can't safely do so. Sorry, but you should learn the 3 gate Expand or a 1 Gate expand and suck it up. No sense in being a god damn cry baby cause you can't hide beind your cannons. I also only sometimes do that since 80% of the people I play against don't believe me anyway so what's it matter lol. You guys are so cute with your QQ about random being SOOOO advantageous in the beginning because 1 of the 9 possible match ups that a random faces is thrown off somewhat. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for people who are scared to experiement rather than practice what they saw MC do. I play terran.... And your a scumbag who needs to try to trick your opponents by lying to them in order tO win Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 07:54 The Final Boss wrote:On August 19 2012 21:53 FaCE_1 wrote:
i play random (mid-diamond) and I don't cheese much then anyone (pretty rarely). But i won't tell my race if someone ask. When I meet random players who don't tell me what race they are I just proxy rax or do some weird giant 1-base Marine timing and move on with my day. It's obnoxious when Random players refuse to tell what race they are on the ladder, and I can only imagine it's worse for people who play Protoss (due to PvZ early game being far different than PvT and PvP). You shouldn't be asking in the first place. Your opponent isn't obligated to tell you anything at all (besides glhf and gg unless they want to be rude). Why should they? If you asked them what their strategy/build is going to be, would you expect them answer truthfully? And announce whenever they were going to drop you and attack you ten seconds beforehand? Of course not. Deception isn't just accepted in a strategy game, it's encouraged. Play to win. There is only one proper answer to the question of race. "Scout it"
What I'm saying is that I do different builds for different match-ups. I know what builds I do against Terran, Protoss, Zerg, and Random. The builds I do against Random happen to be silly cheeses. If they want to play a TvT, TvP, or TvZ with me and they tell me what race they are, then I will play that match-up with them. If they would prefer for me to play TvR, then I will play TvR. But TvR means I am going to cheese.
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I think Terrans should stop walling off in order to hide their tech, It's obnoxious when you don't know if they're opening up with gas or not. And what's with Protoss! They wall off with a forge and cannon so I can't run a ling in periodically to scout everything they're doing! And for God damn sake, stop shooting my overlord marines, it's not fair that I can't scout you because MY tear 1 units can't shoot up. Gosh, I wish people would stop being so obnoxious and just give me free information that can help me win the game!
Kappa.
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On August 23 2012 06:13 skeldark wrote:
I dont understand your problems guys.
All information i need i get in the loading screen. Random!
He most likely knows one all-in for each race. Eco (most cases) or unit allin (some cases).
So you already know his strategies, whats more important than his race.
So or so its countered by an unit allin yourself.
Normally 1 base builds on this big maps dont work any-more but normal random player dont adjust to their opponent.
There are some very few random players out there that are able to play the races.
So you will autoloose because of their advantage and your 1 base allin.
But you still have over 90% winratio vs random this way.
Funny but as a random player on the other side of this thinking, that ratio looks really odd. I get a lot of wins because of this mentality. I counter all-ins by scouting them, it's super effective (it works vs the dirty kind of random player you describe too). It's fun trying to work out what he's up to based on what you've seen and then deciding how to handle it to be as far ahead as you can without being dead. Making your own blind 1 base build and rolling that dice against his isn't a much of a strat, especially if you convince yourself its some kind of moral high ground.
But then I like to play adaptive and I like to try different things. I rarely go the same build twice in a row, even in the unlikely event that I do roll the same matchup and see the same opener. It's not fun for me and fun is why I play.
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On August 23 2012 07:54 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 21:53 FaCE_1 wrote:
i play random (mid-diamond) and I don't cheese much then anyone (pretty rarely). But i won't tell my race if someone ask. When I meet random players who don't tell me what race they are I just proxy rax or do some weird giant 1-base Marine timing and move on with my day. It's obnoxious when Random players refuse to tell what race they are on the ladder, and I can only imagine it's worse for people who play Protoss (due to PvZ early game being far different than PvT and PvP).
Or you could just scout and find out which race your opponent spawned?!
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On August 23 2012 08:00 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 07:54 Fyrewolf wrote:On August 23 2012 06:07 P7GAB wrote:On August 23 2012 06:03 FortMonty wrote:On August 23 2012 05:08 P7GAB wrote:
Yeah guys111!!1! Lets lie about our race to players so that we can watch them do non viable builds and then call them 1 trick ponies!! Technically if I lied about my race that doesn't mean I'm going to do the same build lol. 1 trick pony measn that all toss want to do is FFE vs Zerg but because I'm Random, they can't safely do so. Sorry, but you should learn the 3 gate Expand or a 1 Gate expand and suck it up. No sense in being a god damn cry baby cause you can't hide beind your cannons. I also only sometimes do that since 80% of the people I play against don't believe me anyway so what's it matter lol. You guys are so cute with your QQ about random being SOOOO advantageous in the beginning because 1 of the 9 possible match ups that a random faces is thrown off somewhat. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for people who are scared to experiement rather than practice what they saw MC do. I play terran.... And your a scumbag who needs to try to trick your opponents by lying to them in order tO win On August 23 2012 07:54 The Final Boss wrote:On August 19 2012 21:53 FaCE_1 wrote:
i play random (mid-diamond) and I don't cheese much then anyone (pretty rarely). But i won't tell my race if someone ask. When I meet random players who don't tell me what race they are I just proxy rax or do some weird giant 1-base Marine timing and move on with my day. It's obnoxious when Random players refuse to tell what race they are on the ladder, and I can only imagine it's worse for people who play Protoss (due to PvZ early game being far different than PvT and PvP). You shouldn't be asking in the first place. Your opponent isn't obligated to tell you anything at all (besides glhf and gg unless they want to be rude). Why should they? If you asked them what their strategy/build is going to be, would you expect them answer truthfully? And announce whenever they were going to drop you and attack you ten seconds beforehand? Of course not. Deception isn't just accepted in a strategy game, it's encouraged. Play to win. There is only one proper answer to the question of race. "Scout it" What I'm saying is that I do different builds for different match-ups. I know what builds I do against Terran, Protoss, Zerg, and Random. The builds I do against Random happen to be silly cheeses. If they want to play a TvT, TvP, or TvZ with me and they tell me what race they are, then I will play that match-up with them. If they would prefer for me to play TvR, then I will play TvR. But TvR means I am going to cheese.
You were also saying it was obnoxious when they don't answer; but in reality it is an obnoxious question to ask. Random players get cheesed often enough that they are usually expecting it, especially if someone is so rude as to ask for their race. Many of them just do standard solid play and hold off your cheese for free ladder points if that is really your strategy vR. But to each his own.
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Russian Federation501 Posts
On August 19 2012 21:56 Antares_ wrote:I don't care, I just go 1 rax FE and depo scout. When I play random on my smurf acc I reveal my race if opponent asks nicely 
same.. I go 1 rax fe or 1 rax with gas and scout at 10 or 13 and then I can do whatever I want ... race doesn't matter that much really
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EPT
