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On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though  . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make)
Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds.
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On August 20 2012 04:58 LordOfDabu wrote:
It's a 4th race and should be treated as such.
This is all that needs to be said. Be happy that it's not balanced to be viable at a professional level.
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On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make) Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds.
start with regular 1gate/cyber and adjust according to scouting information?
going nexus first is a risk and has nothing to do with random. and to say FFE is the only viable build against zerg 1) blame blizzard, 2) work on your gateway fe
because i'm 100% sure that not being able to FFE against a zerg will not be the sole reason why a protoss would lose.
this is like saying protoss not going nexus first will NEVER win against a 14cc, plainly retarded and this is what so many of you guys are fighting over.
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I cant believe people are actually whining about this. You guys are actually asking for a nerf to Random. LOL
Yes having your race shown to your opponent if you chose Random is a nerf. A retarded one. My mind is blown. Never knew Randoms were such scum that they have to be removed. Chill out.
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I agree random shoudnt be allowed in competitive play, though I dont know about ladder.
The fact that they have to learn more mathcups so your build is fucked is bs.
You have rank X that means you can play at rank X with all 3 races.
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On August 20 2012 06:56 rEalGuapo wrote:That's why I said "the first month" Show nested quote + Also naturally you will not be gold-level on your off race when you're masters on your main. Never played a single game of Terran other than Monobattles, trust me I would (this is eu ladder I am talking about) nope. Show nested quote +And in that case your winrate with terran will be at about 30% while your winrate with toss will be at about 70-75% to begin with. nope Show nested quote +I don't complain and I don't see my opponents complaining about the match being already decided with my PvT winrate being about 33% and my PvZ winrate about 63%. Sticking to one race, you get somewhat even practice in all matchups. I think my 2000 Protoss games would make me A LOT better with Protoss than I am with Terran on 0 games. Show nested quote +It's only natural to have good and bad matchups as a player. And with some players it's even more extreme. Yup. Say ZvP was my best match-up and Protoss have to play a build they are not comfortable with (gateway expand vs zerg). How is that any fun for them? And if you say that you don't have a problem playing against random, well good for you. I do and you can not convince me that I have no right to or whatever it is you are trying to tell me.
I expect you to watch some games of Starcraft II every now and then since you're posting on teamliquid. So you should be aware of the basics of every matchup. Having played 2000 games regardless of your race additionally gives you the mechanical ability to play any race on a decently high level. Perhaps you should try playing zerg or terran against friends and you'll see that you should be at worst one league behind your protoss level. I know that I always easily roll my platinum neighbour with any race and can do the most crazy builds, even though I'm a protoss player. It's all about the superior mechanics. That's why a pro will always kill the usual player, even if he goes mass scvs.
Always playing a style you're comfortable with is not what ladder is about and is not what you'll ever find on ladder. SC2 is a strategy game and adapting to your opponent is an essential part of it. Without doing that, you just outright die. Not that playing against random would dictate anything else than the early game.
And actually I can't see how it's any more fun to play exactly the same style for hundreds of games, than having a bit of diversion every 20 games or so.
On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds.
Btw, gateway expand.
On August 20 2012 07:12 CrtBalorda wrote:
I agree random shoudnt be allowed in competitive play, though I dont know about ladder.
The fact that they have to learn more mathcups so your build is fucked is bs.
You have rank X that means you can play at rank X with all 3 races.
I absolutely agree, random in competitive play is a really big concern, because there's just so many of them random pros.
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On August 20 2012 07:07 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make) Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds. start with regular 1gate/cyber and adjust according to scouting information? going nexus first is a risk and has nothing to do with random. and to say FFE is the only viable build against zerg 1) blame blizzard, 2) work on your gateway fe because i'm 100% sure that not being able to FFE against a zerg is going to be the sole reason why a protoss would lose.
Ok, 12 Gate or 13? What Gas timings? Can I afford to Chrono Probes 3 times or will he Proxy Gate, Oh how do I deal with Cannonrush on a 4player maps if he sends 2 Probes?
Do I need to send 2 Probes to be safe every single game?
So I scout him and constantly scout for proxies because it could be PvP, that makes it really easy to go up against Hatch/Command Center first.
And don't give me bullshit that I overestimate the dangers of those cheeses, I played against enough proxy gates/cannrushs from master players to know what I'm talking about.
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On August 19 2012 21:50 justinpal wrote:If you ask me what race I am I tell you unless you are mean. 
unfortunately you can't always believe people on the internet.
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On August 20 2012 06:56 rEalGuapo wrote:That's why I said "the first month"
Guess what, if I play on a new account as any race I'll have close to a 100% win rate until I start hitting masters. Smurfing, ranking up new accounts, and other shit occurs where people end up playing opponents that stand no chance against them. It happens, and random has nothing to do with it. Terrible argument.
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On August 20 2012 07:13 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make) Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds. start with regular 1gate/cyber and adjust according to scouting information? going nexus first is a risk and has nothing to do with random. and to say FFE is the only viable build against zerg 1) blame blizzard, 2) work on your gateway fe because i'm 100% sure that not being able to FFE against a zerg is going to be the sole reason why a protoss would lose. Ok, 12 Gate or 13? What Gas timings? Can I afford to Chrono Probes 3 times or will he Proxy Gate, Oh how do I deal with Cannonrush on a 4player maps if he sends 2 Probes? Do I need to send 2 Probes to be safe every single game? So I scout him and constantly scout for proxies because it could be PvP, that makes it really easy to go up against Hatch/Command Center first.
13gate. Even on a 4player map you see your opponent on gas latest if you go pylon-gate scout.
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On August 20 2012 07:13 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make) Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds. start with regular 1gate/cyber and adjust according to scouting information? going nexus first is a risk and has nothing to do with random. and to say FFE is the only viable build against zerg 1) blame blizzard, 2) work on your gateway fe because i'm 100% sure that not being able to FFE against a zerg is going to be the sole reason why a protoss would lose. Ok, 12 Gate or 13? What Gas timings? Can I afford to Chrono Probes 3 times or will he Proxy Gate, Oh how do I deal with Cannonrush on a 4player maps if he sends 2 Probes? Do I need to send 2 Probes to be safe every single game? So I scout him and constantly scout for proxies because it could be PvP, that makes it really easy to go up against Hatch/Command Center first.
if you really think the game is decided on how many chrono boosts used on what or gas timings are the reasons why a person would win or lose, you're seriously delusional(especially in a non pro level). crisis management (vs cheese) is all about proper response and from that point your build order becomes moot, you adapt to the situation.
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There's a tradeoff to playing random. You have to put it more effort to be as good as someone who sticks to one race, and get a tiny advantage as a bonus.
Shouldn't change.
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On August 20 2012 07:15 Zetter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:13 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 07:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make) Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds. start with regular 1gate/cyber and adjust according to scouting information? going nexus first is a risk and has nothing to do with random. and to say FFE is the only viable build against zerg 1) blame blizzard, 2) work on your gateway fe because i'm 100% sure that not being able to FFE against a zerg is going to be the sole reason why a protoss would lose. Ok, 12 Gate or 13? What Gas timings? Can I afford to Chrono Probes 3 times or will he Proxy Gate, Oh how do I deal with Cannonrush on a 4player maps if he sends 2 Probes? Do I need to send 2 Probes to be safe every single game? So I scout him and constantly scout for proxies because it could be PvP, that makes it really easy to go up against Hatch/Command Center first. 13gate. Even on a 4player map you see your opponent on gas latest if you go pylon-gate scout.
9Scout and 13 Gate?! I don't think that fits very well...
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On August 20 2012 07:18 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:15 Zetter wrote:On August 20 2012 07:13 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 07:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make) Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds. start with regular 1gate/cyber and adjust according to scouting information? going nexus first is a risk and has nothing to do with random. and to say FFE is the only viable build against zerg 1) blame blizzard, 2) work on your gateway fe because i'm 100% sure that not being able to FFE against a zerg is going to be the sole reason why a protoss would lose. Ok, 12 Gate or 13? What Gas timings? Can I afford to Chrono Probes 3 times or will he Proxy Gate, Oh how do I deal with Cannonrush on a 4player maps if he sends 2 Probes? Do I need to send 2 Probes to be safe every single game? So I scout him and constantly scout for proxies because it could be PvP, that makes it really easy to go up against Hatch/Command Center first. 13gate. Even on a 4player map you see your opponent on gas latest if you go pylon-gate scout. 9Scout and 13 Gate?!
why not?
oh wait, dont tell me, it puts you so much behind that you will end up losing the game 10 minute later. am i right?
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On August 20 2012 07:18 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:15 Zetter wrote:On August 20 2012 07:13 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 07:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make) Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds. start with regular 1gate/cyber and adjust according to scouting information? going nexus first is a risk and has nothing to do with random. and to say FFE is the only viable build against zerg 1) blame blizzard, 2) work on your gateway fe because i'm 100% sure that not being able to FFE against a zerg is going to be the sole reason why a protoss would lose. Ok, 12 Gate or 13? What Gas timings? Can I afford to Chrono Probes 3 times or will he Proxy Gate, Oh how do I deal with Cannonrush on a 4player maps if he sends 2 Probes? Do I need to send 2 Probes to be safe every single game? So I scout him and constantly scout for proxies because it could be PvP, that makes it really easy to go up against Hatch/Command Center first. 13gate. Even on a 4player map you see your opponent on gas latest if you go pylon-gate scout. 9Scout and 13 Gate?! I don't think that fits very well...
I've never had any problems with it in the last 6 months.
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It's not just you, in MANY respects you must treat this as a 4th matchup. The burden is on you to find a compromise between scouting your opponent's race and proceeding in an efficient, viable build. PvZ a lot complain that there is no viable build alternative, generating anger. Randoms argue that they are forced to learn 9 (or 16) matchups to their opponent's 3 (or 4) to meet them on same skill level. That's the basic summary.
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On August 20 2012 07:15 IcedBacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 06:56 rEalGuapo wrote:When you start playing random your winrates will start evening out more. That's why I said "the first month" Guess what, if I play on a new account as any race I'll have close to a 100% win rate until I start hitting masters. Smurfing, ranking up new accounts, and other shit occurs where people end up playing opponents that stand no chance against them. It happens, and random has nothing to do with it. Terrible argument.
Yeah if I start a new account I will get what 15 freewins?
After that I get matched vs Master level players.
If I play Random I will not get to play against Masters in the first month, of that I am 100% certain.
The simple reason being that I will have 1/3 of my games freewin but I defenitely lose to low diamonds with Terran for a long time, probably even to Platin.
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On August 20 2012 06:56 perestain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 06:39 Utukka wrote:On August 20 2012 06:32 perestain wrote:
Random players might believe they learn all matchups, but infact they almost never face a proper opening against the race they roll.
So since its not possible to play a proper early game vs random anyways I usually just fool around with some quick cheese or simply quit if my initial race guess was incorrect. I want to learn the matchups, and don't have time to try out how PvT builds work out against Zerg or the other way around, or how to play from behind from a safety build that I would not do in any matchup.
Not even close, PvZ is the only matchup where it's affected and even then, I've played against plenty of FFE, especially on 2 player maps. I actually have probably played against less cheese than most players just due to the fact that they don't know which cheese to pick. Your anecdotical evidence is subjective and not relevant, lets look at statistics: Against random, you can play a) a safe-against-everything bullshit buildorder, hoping R somehow cheeses you (proper earlygame for the matchup 0% of the time) b) a XvZ Build, hoping its zerg (proper build for the matchup 33% of all the times) c) a XvT Build (proper build for the matchup 33% of all the times) d) a XvP Build (proper build for the matchup 33% of all the times) So you will get a proper earlygame in less than 33% of all games, which makes random worse than any other race to learn proper matchups. Even if protoss for example can combine c) and d) by early scouting, its quite apparent that you will still get a lot of bullshit games if random is involved. And I simply don't have time for such shenanigans. I'd rather cannonrush or quit instantly and practice the matchups of my race against non-random players instead.
PvP = unaffected, everyone starts off gate/gas/core
vsT, I'd say it's a safe bet that most people 1 rax fe, hence me being random doesn't matter.
vsZ = Pool first or hatch first, I should be scouted by then, pretty standard builds there. Yes a lot of people hatch first against random.
I could provide replays if you actually care to look through my games.
Lastly, not everyone has your attitude towards it and just blows the game off.
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On August 20 2012 07:19 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:18 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 07:15 Zetter wrote:On August 20 2012 07:13 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 07:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make) Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds. start with regular 1gate/cyber and adjust according to scouting information? going nexus first is a risk and has nothing to do with random. and to say FFE is the only viable build against zerg 1) blame blizzard, 2) work on your gateway fe because i'm 100% sure that not being able to FFE against a zerg is going to be the sole reason why a protoss would lose. Ok, 12 Gate or 13? What Gas timings? Can I afford to Chrono Probes 3 times or will he Proxy Gate, Oh how do I deal with Cannonrush on a 4player maps if he sends 2 Probes? Do I need to send 2 Probes to be safe every single game? So I scout him and constantly scout for proxies because it could be PvP, that makes it really easy to go up against Hatch/Command Center first. 13gate. Even on a 4player map you see your opponent on gas latest if you go pylon-gate scout. 9Scout and 13 Gate?! why not? oh wait, dont tell me, it puts you so much behind that you will end up losing the game 10 minute later. am i right?
nobody wants to 9scout because it messes up their build. most ppl dont have builds for 9scout.
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On August 20 2012 07:23 paintfive wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 07:19 jinorazi wrote:On August 20 2012 07:18 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 07:15 Zetter wrote:On August 20 2012 07:13 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 07:07 jinorazi wrote:On August 20 2012 07:03 rEalGuapo wrote:On August 20 2012 06:52 mostevil wrote:On August 20 2012 05:56 Avicularia wrote:
It's also often really easy to cheese random, just 'cos most of them don't scout. Dunno about that, I get 6 pooled and 4 gated a daft proportion of the time. Free wins for me though . And I always announce my race. However I don't think less of randoms who don't announce and I don't care if the game puts it on the front screen. There's only an argument for it in PvZ and even then its a weak argument from those who only want to play current meta (or this weird TL thing of having one build per matchup - even with 9 matchups to go at that sounds fecking boring). There are pleanty of safe ways to open gateway vs z, especially on the bigger modern maps where fast pools struggle to arrive unscouted. I've had a few guys claim other randoms have lied about thier race but I've never known it. I think the issue is there are two kinds of randoms, those who play to the best of their ability to get more from the game. And those who play random to blow off steam and cheese everyone. It's all valid anyway, if your morally superior macro build dies to cheese it's a crappy build (or a dice roll you should be happy with to make) Ok, tell me the Protoss Build that is safe against EVERY SINGLE CHEESE of every race and can keep up with the macro builds. start with regular 1gate/cyber and adjust according to scouting information? going nexus first is a risk and has nothing to do with random. and to say FFE is the only viable build against zerg 1) blame blizzard, 2) work on your gateway fe because i'm 100% sure that not being able to FFE against a zerg is going to be the sole reason why a protoss would lose. Ok, 12 Gate or 13? What Gas timings? Can I afford to Chrono Probes 3 times or will he Proxy Gate, Oh how do I deal with Cannonrush on a 4player maps if he sends 2 Probes? Do I need to send 2 Probes to be safe every single game? So I scout him and constantly scout for proxies because it could be PvP, that makes it really easy to go up against Hatch/Command Center first. 13gate. Even on a 4player map you see your opponent on gas latest if you go pylon-gate scout. 9Scout and 13 Gate?! why not? oh wait, dont tell me, it puts you so much behind that you will end up losing the game 10 minute later. am i right? nobody wants to 9scout because it messes up their build. most ppl dont have builds for 9scout.
I started 9scouting in PvP since cannonrush had somewhat of a comeback and a 9 scout makes that a freewin.
But 9 scout forces 12 Gate otherwise you waste like 3/4 of a Chronoboost.
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EPT
