EPTWhy doesn't Zerg use Contaminate? - Page 15
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
archonOOid
1983 Posts
| ||
|
Sporadic44
United States533 Posts
| ||
|
stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On August 14 2012 00:02 Sporadic44 wrote: Acritter pretty much hit the nail on the head. The majority of the time you move to overseer to do some scouting there just isnt enough energy accumulated because youre dropping changelings throughout the game so you do another fly over, drop a changeling or two and then leave the overseer alone for a bit. It rarely gets up to the energy needed to use the spell. In theory you could do something mass overseer late game, but there's already so much going on that it becomes a very trivial thing to consider on a very long to do list. Not to mention that late game you flat out have better harassment options anyway. Infestors, mutas, ling runbys all offer better pay offs for successful harass. The only edge the overseer has is it's free supply, but still making a bunch of overseers requires resources that you'd rather have banked, or invested into your current army or tech. They nerfed the energy they start with IIRC when they lowered the cost. It was either that or contaminate costs more. | ||
|
Pinski
United States126 Posts
On August 14 2012 00:04 stevarius wrote: They nerfed the energy they start with IIRC when they lowered the cost. It was either that or contaminate costs more. No, they increased the cost of contaminate, and Overseers still start with 50 energy.. Contaminate cost 75 energy when Overseers were 50m/100g. Now it's 125 energy, but a 50m/50g Overseer cost. If they didn't change this, ZvZ would be the dumbest thing ever. | ||
|
endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
| ||
|
cactusjack914
United States183 Posts
| ||
|
IRL_Sinister
Ireland621 Posts
On August 13 2012 23:57 archonOOid wrote: The Kespa players will utilize contaminate as they have more strategic thinking due the the fact that they are bw pros and that their apm is really high. Say what...? | ||
|
JKM
Denmark419 Posts
That said, I do see a couple of opportunities for overseers to help zerg win games. 1. When the protoss is building a mothership the zerg could benefit greatly from pooing on his nexus a couple of times and delaying the mothership and allowing the zerg to spam up some static defense of take more bases (assuming the midgame didn't cripple the zerg into slow tech or something). Most zergs already have a couple of overseers at this time, so it shouldn't even dig into their gascount (50 gascost meh...) or be that taxing on their APM. 2. Ultra late game, where both sides are banking a ton of minerals and gas. In this scenario the protoss army will always be inferior to a well-spread broodlord / infestor army, why his reinforcements are important, which most likely will be either mass gateways for stalker warpin or 5-7 stargates pumping vrays / carriers. Anticipating that the protoss will have to replace his army at some point and morphing 10 overseers should not hurt a zerg in the very late game, since all upgrades are running the army has been built and a bank is building anyway (10 overseers = less than one minutes gas-intake, I think). So morphing these and contaminating 10 gates or 5-7 stargates + the nexus rebuilding a mothership should help zerg topple over protoss more easily in this phase of the game! Edit: I kindda agree with him, the Kespa players are coming in with a fresh mindset and are known to be very articulous in their builds. It would surprise me if all the Kespa zergs looked at contaminate and saw no use at all. | ||
|
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On August 13 2012 23:57 archonOOid wrote: The Kespa players will utilize contaminate as they have more strategic thinking due the the fact that they are bw pros and that their apm is really high. Word, dawg. They also will use Caduceus Reactor way more effectively, because they have more APMs due the the fact that they are high strategists and that their BW is really pro thinking. | ||
|
Opera
France469 Posts
| ||
|
executorx
Germany81 Posts
On August 11 2012 05:39 Shunjal wrote: Inject, Tumor movement, and general gameplay taking much of the APM. I wish pros would use Contaminate and Transfuse a bit more effectively. Well Contaminated doenst need that much APM. You fly in as you would do for scouting, and contaminate the sbuilding. its like 2 - 5 clicks more than a normal scout. I dont think APM are the problem. | ||
|
mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
It's getting rarer on modern maps for that to be an option. Cloud Kingdom Ohana etc. have no way to get back there without an overfly and very little space to hide in. I think its predominantly a map balance reaction to the mass muta strats from a few months back but its a shame as ling infestor in TvZ makes for uglier games than the old mutabling styles. | ||
|
hifriend
China7935 Posts
| ||
|
snailz
Croatia900 Posts
On August 14 2012 00:32 hifriend wrote: I've seen it used it ZvZ in conjunction with a roach timing but can't remember by who.. Two contaminates and the timing worked out so well it looked ridiculous. it was used in the past a lot, i think it even got nerfed... zenio vs idra @ gsl, in example | ||
|
figq
12519 Posts
1. Frontal attack, to draw attention. 2. Small drop (but with a large number of empty overlords) in the main or/and other bases with production. 3. Bring a bunch of overseers with the drop to contaminate stuff. The point is - whenever you are bringing other units they can buffer for overseers to contaminate freely and leave the scene safely, so they can repeat that again later for free. Basically, the best use of contaminate involves multi-pronged action, control groups and higher APM, but I expect the pros could pull it off pretty nicely, if they wanted to work on such tactics. | ||
|
Dingodile
4139 Posts
I prefer fungal on larvas, one fungal is enough, they disappear! | ||
|
IPA
United States3206 Posts
It takes time, attention, and APM that (most of the time) could be put to better use somewhere else. It is a nice thing to use if you get the chance, don't get me wrong; however, building "strategies" around contamination timings is bunk. It's a cute way to beat your platinum friend and not much else. If the BW gods come in with 750 APM and make use of contaminate, I will be a fan. It's just not as amazing or essential as people are making out here. | ||
|
Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On August 14 2012 01:13 IPA wrote: I feel like this thread is about 75% low tier players theory crafting about why contaminate is so awesome. It takes time, attention, and APM that (most of the time) could be put to better use somewhere else. It is a nice thing to use if you get the chance, don't get me wrong; however, building "strategies" around contamination timings is bunk. It's a cute way to beat your platinum friend and not much else. If the BW gods come in with 750 APM and make use of contaminate, I will be a fan. It's just not as amazing or essential as people are making out here. I don't see what's not awesome about it. There's a good amount of time that you're gonna have 1-2 overseers around the base of your opponent. It takes such minimal APM and attention to actually do it, and it really hurts the opponent. Sure, you could argue that the energy could be used for other stuff but the skill itself isn't bad. | ||
|
IPA
United States3206 Posts
On August 14 2012 01:16 Chaggi wrote: I don't see what's not awesome about it. There's a good amount of time that you're gonna have 1-2 overseers around the base of your opponent. It takes such minimal APM and attention to actually do it, and it really hurts the opponent. Sure, you could argue that the energy could be used for other stuff but the skill itself isn't bad. As I mentioned, I like the skill. It's fine and useful. I just think people are being overzealous in their praise, and that the various strategies posited here, built around contamination timings, are frankly absurd. | ||
|
Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On August 14 2012 01:28 IPA wrote: As I mentioned, I like the skill. It's fine and useful. I just think people are being overzealous in their praise, and that the various strategies posited here, built around contamination timings, are frankly absurd. IMO that's true. Strategies built around the contamination skill seems way too far fetched and something you'd try on a much lower skilled friend to mess around. | ||
| ||
