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Vearo
Canada168 Posts
Was beat to it. + Show Spoiler + On August 09 2012 05:31 hunts wrote: Did I miss some patch or something or where are you getting this? There's a PTR for a creep tumor nerf and a raven speed & acceleration buff: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359152 | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:32 Qwerty85 wrote: At least they noticed something is wrong instead of saying things like "we are happy with tournament results". I like the idea of buffing ravens both in terms of speed but also acceleration. It was too easy to lose them to a fungal. Hope they really implement the changes. They said they plan to implement them in a week, so it's a pretty safe bet. | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
On August 09 2012 02:27 ragz_gt wrote: And you really think thats the skill curve? Clearly it isnt. Top foreign terrans are behind top foreign zergs, that doesnt imply master terrans cant beat master zergs, ecetera. I have no problem off racing as terran and beating low masters, its not any harder a match up for me whether I off race or not.When by "lower level" you mean where people can reasonable expected to pass, like plat+, it's acceptable even if not ideal. But if the "balanced" zone only consistent Korean pro-gamers, that becomes ridiculous. Is SC2 Terran learning curve so high that only people who are BETTER THAN FOREIGN PRO GAMERS can pass it? If it is, that's a pretty broken system. | ||
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fuzzz
267 Posts
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ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
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ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
On August 08 2012 23:40 aTnClouD wrote: Well the graphs just show that zerg is way easier to play if anything. That's why they are hiring low league players for game balance, so they can also work on balancing difficulty. care to explain how you can come to that conclusion? | ||
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Vari
United States532 Posts
just like they should have buffed ovies but not queens IMO, the raven buff is cool but they DON'T need to nerf creep on top of it. the level of complaining I guessis what's pushing them but it's a shame. small changes blizz! don't double solve problems, especially without giving them time to work themselves out. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:38 whatevername wrote: And you really think thats the skill curve? Clearly it isnt. Top foreign terrans are behind top foreign zergs, that doesnt imply master terrans cant beat master zergs, ecetera. I have no problem off racing as terran and beating low masters, its not any harder a match up for me whether I off race or not. Of course I don't think that, that's just dumb. But that's what people say "Foreign Terran just bad, compare to foreign Z/P, look at Koreans" are suggesting. | ||
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Qwerty85
Croatia5536 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:57 Vari wrote: UGH blizz is overreacting to the problem IMO. just like they should have buffed ovies but not queens IMO, the raven buff is cool but they DON'T need to nerf creep on top of it. the level of complaining I guessis what's pushing them but it's a shame. small changes blizz! don't double solve problems, especially without giving them time to work themselves out. They didn't do anything for 3 months after the patch. Also, queen change was obviously bigger than they thought since it revealed how strong fast creep pushing can be when zergs get more than 1 queen per hatch. Since zerg early game buff was pretty big, there are only 2 options in my opinion: 1. Give equally strong buff to terran late game - something like buffing both bc and raven 2. Give slight nerf to zerg in the earlier stages of the game (like slowing down creep) and give slight buff to terran late game. Yes I play terran but I think those changes are reasonable. Of course, there is always a possibility that some new raven strats will reveal imbalance (like it was the case with queens) but blizzard will hopefully act if that problem appears. | ||
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:44 ThePlayer33 wrote: game is balanced but foreigners are bad Koreans are just too good  The cup can be half full. + Show Spoiler + espacially since we have nightend :D:D | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
As for Korea, I think if you don't have Gumiho or Taeja TvZ is still below what it should be considering all of the other best players in the world who play Terran and only boast >50% TvZ win rates. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:38 whatevername wrote: And you really think thats the skill curve? Clearly it isnt. Top foreign terrans are behind top foreign zergs, that doesnt imply master terrans cant beat master zergs, ecetera. I have no problem off racing as terran and beating low masters, its not any harder a match up for me whether I off race or not. This evidence might only suggest that playing Zerg is simply easier than playing Terran as a foreigner. I don't think it necessarily suggests Zergs being better than Terrans as foreigners at all. I think most people would agree the reverse is true since most Terrans can offrace with Zerg at least at their MMR or much higher with very little play. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:29 zmansman17 wrote: International Terran is still so bad. As for Korea, I think if you don't have Gumiho or Taeja TvZ is still below what it should be considering all of the other best players in the world who play Terran and only boast >50% TvZ win rates. How about we removing every terran win this month. OMG ZERG 100% winrate, imbalance! You can't just remove stats to fit your need. | ||
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Charon1979
Austria317 Posts
This evidence might only suggest that playing Zerg is simply easier than playing Terran as a foreigner. I don't think it necessarily suggests Zergs being better than Terrans as foreigners at all. I think most people would agree the reverse is true since most Terrans can offrace with Zerg at least at their MMR or much higher with very little play. If that where true, Terrans would do that in tournaments where money is on the line. Yes they do offrace from time to time on stream but so do Zerg, also with a decent winrate. No reason to pick a "shitty" race with a low winrate if your offrace is "so much better". | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:33 Assirra wrote: How about we removing every terran win this month. OMG ZERG 100% winrate, imbalance! You can't just remove stats to fit your need. You make quite a leap in logic. Removing every game is not the same as removing 2 players who had SUCH an impact on TvZ TLPD in Korea that they drastically change the stats. It's worth considering as a more honest metric of the rest of Korea. Considering their win rates, they are more or less outliers. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:33 Assirra wrote: How about we removing every terran win this month. OMG ZERG 100% winrate, imbalance! You can't just remove stats to fit your need. On August 09 2012 01:04 canikizu wrote: Yes you can pick stats like that. That's the very basic fundamental when you look at chart and statistic. If you trade stock and stuff, and you don't know the source of why the that stock is flying so high, you will get perceived and get burn. The reasons Taeja and Gumiho are counted as outliners because they contributed a significant number of games in TvZ, and have siginicant higher win rate than other Terran. Now compared to Zerg players, we have Leenock, Curious, Symbol (100% winrate), Horror (80%), Shine, Life, Sniper, Losira, DRG, Hyun (60%-70%). There are too many players that have good winrate against Terran, and most of them didn't contribue significant number of games to count as outliners. Among the Zerg there're only 2 players that contribute good number of games vT, such as Coca (14-5 73% winrate), and Nestea (4-9, 30%). But comparing between Coca's winnrate and others, he doesn't have any significant winrate that can be counted as outliner. On the other hand, Nestea can be counted as outliner because his winrrate was significantly lower than the rest of the Zerg. But that just proved that if you took Nestea out, ZvT winrate should even be higher. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:55 xrapture wrote: I've never understood how, when Korea always has 1/5th (sometimes less) the sample size of the international, people put more into the Korean graphs Because the koreans play at the upper most level. Foreign international counts I believe every match up in tournaments which could have stephano vs no name joe, or Kas vs no name bob. It skews results because no name joe/bob could be absolutely awful and it would skew results in favor of w/e race. You will notice international tvz has always been different then in kr just because of the skill difference. In the KR sample size is ALL top players. In international it's not. That is a huge difference and this game should be balanced around top level play not mid level. | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:55 xrapture wrote: I've never understood how, when Korea always has 1/5th (sometimes less) the sample size of the international, people put more into the Korean graphs Koreans represent the highest level of play, so balance is most relevant at their level. Granted, sample size must be taken into account. | ||
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