• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:27
CET 17:27
KST 01:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA17
StarCraft 2
General
SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft 2v2 maps which are SC2 style with teams together? Data analysis on 70 million replays What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group A - Sat 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Clair Obscur - Expedition 33
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2064 users

Call To Action: Balance Testing TvZ.

Forum Index > SC2 General
1619 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 79 80 81 Next
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16109 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:52:17
August 08 2012 20:13 GMT
#1
Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/6873704/Call_to_Action_Balance_Testing-8_8_2012

We’ve recently published a custom version of Antiga Shipyard, called "Antiga Shipyard 1.5.0 Balance v1.0," in which we’re testing a few small balance changes to StarCraft II. Our plan is to bring the changes to the game in a week or so. Here’s the situation:

Globally, matchups outside the professional level are balanced, and we see no significant issues.
As always, we are watching matchup balance in order to react as best as possible when issues do arise.
At the very highest levels of eSports competition, we feel that terran players are at a slight disadvantage against zerg. Many terran players, specifically those just below the very highest skill level, are underperforming in this matchup.
We’re dealing with this issue very carefully, because at the highest end of the pro level, terran players look about equal against protoss.
We’re making the smallest changes that we believe will address this.

Here’s what we’re testing:

Creep tumor build radius, vision radius, and creep spread radius decreased from 10 to 8.

This is a relatively minor change, but one that we feel will positively impact game balance at the highest levels of competition. After carefully watching as the pro game has shifted since zerg players started spreading creep more often, we noticed the increase in creep spread was only having a significant impact on TvZ. These are our goals with this change:

Keep the early game queen defenses and creep spreading viable, while at the same time making it slightly more difficult for the zerg pro to quickly spread creep across the whole map.
With tactics where a single creep tumor is being used, there is practically no change. Creep doesn’t spread fast enough for this change to make a difference at most levels of play.

Raven movement acceleration increased from 2 to 2.25.

Raven movement speed increased from 2.25 to 2.5.

After seeing pro players using the raven, we made these changes considering these two lines of reasoning:

Even the best micro players in the world were struggling to use the raven due to the slower acceleration and movement speed of the unit. Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors.
Because ravens are difficult to use, we don’t expect this buff will have more than a small impact on high-level play or any significant impact on balance at most skill levels.
Please log on, try out the changes for yourself, and then join our feedback thread. We’re looking forward to testing these changes with you, and will do our best to address the feedback we receive.


I'm happy to see the movement speed of the Raven FINALLY being addressed, the changes to creep spread are a bit of a head scratcher though imo. They go through all the trouble of making it easier for Zerg to cover the map in creep only to nerf the creep tumor? Odd choice to say the least.

EDIT: Picture of the new creep tumor radius.
On August 09 2012 06:55 Jaegeru wrote:
What the creep change looks like for anybody interested.

[image loading]


EDIT2: Video demonstrations of the new Raven speed.

+ Show Spoiler +


Facebook Twitter Reddit
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Cainam
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States421 Posts
August 08 2012 20:15 GMT
#2
As a player of all 3 races I think these are great changes. Very interested to see how it plays out
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
August 08 2012 20:15 GMT
#3
Interesting changes.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
tenklavir
Profile Joined November 2010
Slovakia116 Posts
August 08 2012 20:16 GMT
#4
Great changes, definitely eager to test.
Grackodile
Profile Joined January 2011
United States263 Posts
August 08 2012 20:16 GMT
#5
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
johnnywup
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3858 Posts
August 08 2012 20:17 GMT
#6
As a zerg I like these changes. good trying to get raven usage also.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16109 Posts
August 08 2012 20:18 GMT
#7
On August 09 2012 05:16 Grackodile wrote:
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.


But it's also a map where Zerg have been able to get creep across the entire middle in a relatively short period of time, it makes sense they'd test changes to TvZ creep spread there.

Only map that'd make more sense would be maybe Cloud Kingdom.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2408 Posts
August 08 2012 20:19 GMT
#8
I think these are some safe changes, I like them. I hope they make it into the game eventually- especially the raven, because I love seeing them.
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Monitor
Grackodile
Profile Joined January 2011
United States263 Posts
August 08 2012 20:19 GMT
#9
On August 09 2012 05:18 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 05:16 Grackodile wrote:
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.


But it's also a map where Zerg have been able to get creep across the entire middle in a relatively short period of time, it makes sense they'd test changes to TvZ creep spread there.

Only map that'd make more sense would be maybe Cloud Kingdom.


Yeah that is a fair point.
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
August 08 2012 20:20 GMT
#10
Absolutely love all three of these changes.
Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
August 08 2012 20:20 GMT
#11
very nice stuff, might be less than I have hoped for, but definatly towards the right direction!
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
August 08 2012 20:20 GMT
#12
the highest level of tvz? I think we need to separate the stats for taeja vs z and other terrans vs z lol :O
sounds interesting o,o
@KawaiiRiceLighT
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 08 2012 20:22 GMT
#13
On August 09 2012 05:16 Grackodile wrote:
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.


It's difficult for any race to get past 4 bases on antiga.

Interesting changes I am actually a bit surprised I had assumed blizzard was going to wait until hots beta/release before any more balance changes.
When I think of something else, something will go here
ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
August 08 2012 20:22 GMT
#14
On August 09 2012 05:20 KawaiiRice wrote:
the highest level of tvz? I think we need to separate the stats for taeja vs z and other terrans vs z lol :O
sounds interesting o,o


Hey, Reality and ByuN are doing pretty damn good too!
Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
August 08 2012 20:23 GMT
#15
About time they buff the Raven speed and acceleration.
That thing was sluggish as hell in comparaison to Vessels.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
August 08 2012 20:23 GMT
#16
On August 09 2012 05:19 monitor wrote:
I think these are some safe changes, I like them. I hope they make it into the game eventually- especially the raven, because I love seeing them.


They actually said they plan on patch it in a week in the article, so it's a pretty safe bet. I don't like short test time, but I guess that's how they do these things.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
August 08 2012 20:24 GMT
#17
On August 09 2012 05:22 ShiroKaisen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 05:20 KawaiiRice wrote:
the highest level of tvz? I think we need to separate the stats for taeja vs z and other terrans vs z lol :O
sounds interesting o,o


Hey, Reality and ByuN are doing pretty damn good too!


Well, ByuN is doing well enough to lose in spectacular fashion... not sure if that's a good thing or not.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Bedrock
Profile Joined October 2010
United States395 Posts
August 08 2012 20:25 GMT
#18
Moar HSM, please!
eSports or die tryin'
Paperplane
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands1823 Posts
August 08 2012 20:25 GMT
#19
Nice changes. I'm happy they're taking small steps.
tuoli9
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland211 Posts
August 08 2012 20:26 GMT
#20
As a protoss these changes sound really nice. Raven needs a speed buff, and now that zergs are building more queens, creep spread is a little bit too fast.
1 2 3 4 5 79 80 81 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#62
WardiTV1124
TKL 312
Harstem300
Rex133
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 312
Harstem 300
LamboSC2 144
Rex 133
Codebar 7
RotterdaM 2
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34915
Calm 2456
Horang2 1585
Stork 532
Hyuk 486
firebathero 246
BeSt 194
Rush 102
Snow 73
sas.Sziky 55
[ Show more ]
Hyun 52
Backho 38
Free 24
scan(afreeca) 24
Terrorterran 21
ToSsGirL 21
Hm[arnc] 4
Dota 2
Gorgc3481
singsing2947
qojqva2021
Dendi697
XcaliburYe92
BananaSlamJamma22
Counter-Strike
fl0m11293
zeus606
oskar110
Other Games
B2W.Neo1896
FrodaN909
hiko601
Lowko392
Fuzer 356
Hui .237
Liquid`VortiX153
Mew2King101
XaKoH 98
ArmadaUGS89
KnowMe70
Trikslyr45
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream305
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 8
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3364
• WagamamaTV446
• lizZardDota227
League of Legends
• Nemesis4056
• Jankos1913
• TFBlade1045
• HappyZerGling135
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
33m
OSC
6h 33m
Wardi Open
19h 33m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
Wardi Open
1d 19h
OSC
1d 20h
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
4 days
LAN Event
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

SOOP Univ League 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.