• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:20
CEST 16:20
KST 23:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D Soulkey on ASL S20 NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3 General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1527 users

Call To Action: Balance Testing TvZ.

Forum Index > SC2 General
1619 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 79 80 81 Next
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16071 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:52:17
August 08 2012 20:13 GMT
#1
Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/6873704/Call_to_Action_Balance_Testing-8_8_2012

We’ve recently published a custom version of Antiga Shipyard, called "Antiga Shipyard 1.5.0 Balance v1.0," in which we’re testing a few small balance changes to StarCraft II. Our plan is to bring the changes to the game in a week or so. Here’s the situation:

Globally, matchups outside the professional level are balanced, and we see no significant issues.
As always, we are watching matchup balance in order to react as best as possible when issues do arise.
At the very highest levels of eSports competition, we feel that terran players are at a slight disadvantage against zerg. Many terran players, specifically those just below the very highest skill level, are underperforming in this matchup.
We’re dealing with this issue very carefully, because at the highest end of the pro level, terran players look about equal against protoss.
We’re making the smallest changes that we believe will address this.

Here’s what we’re testing:

Creep tumor build radius, vision radius, and creep spread radius decreased from 10 to 8.

This is a relatively minor change, but one that we feel will positively impact game balance at the highest levels of competition. After carefully watching as the pro game has shifted since zerg players started spreading creep more often, we noticed the increase in creep spread was only having a significant impact on TvZ. These are our goals with this change:

Keep the early game queen defenses and creep spreading viable, while at the same time making it slightly more difficult for the zerg pro to quickly spread creep across the whole map.
With tactics where a single creep tumor is being used, there is practically no change. Creep doesn’t spread fast enough for this change to make a difference at most levels of play.

Raven movement acceleration increased from 2 to 2.25.

Raven movement speed increased from 2.25 to 2.5.

After seeing pro players using the raven, we made these changes considering these two lines of reasoning:

Even the best micro players in the world were struggling to use the raven due to the slower acceleration and movement speed of the unit. Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors.
Because ravens are difficult to use, we don’t expect this buff will have more than a small impact on high-level play or any significant impact on balance at most skill levels.
Please log on, try out the changes for yourself, and then join our feedback thread. We’re looking forward to testing these changes with you, and will do our best to address the feedback we receive.


I'm happy to see the movement speed of the Raven FINALLY being addressed, the changes to creep spread are a bit of a head scratcher though imo. They go through all the trouble of making it easier for Zerg to cover the map in creep only to nerf the creep tumor? Odd choice to say the least.

EDIT: Picture of the new creep tumor radius.
On August 09 2012 06:55 Jaegeru wrote:
What the creep change looks like for anybody interested.

[image loading]


EDIT2: Video demonstrations of the new Raven speed.

+ Show Spoiler +


Facebook Twitter Reddit
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Cainam
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States421 Posts
August 08 2012 20:15 GMT
#2
As a player of all 3 races I think these are great changes. Very interested to see how it plays out
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
August 08 2012 20:15 GMT
#3
Interesting changes.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
tenklavir
Profile Joined November 2010
Slovakia116 Posts
August 08 2012 20:16 GMT
#4
Great changes, definitely eager to test.
Grackodile
Profile Joined January 2011
United States263 Posts
August 08 2012 20:16 GMT
#5
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
johnnywup
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3858 Posts
August 08 2012 20:17 GMT
#6
As a zerg I like these changes. good trying to get raven usage also.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16071 Posts
August 08 2012 20:18 GMT
#7
On August 09 2012 05:16 Grackodile wrote:
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.


But it's also a map where Zerg have been able to get creep across the entire middle in a relatively short period of time, it makes sense they'd test changes to TvZ creep spread there.

Only map that'd make more sense would be maybe Cloud Kingdom.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2406 Posts
August 08 2012 20:19 GMT
#8
I think these are some safe changes, I like them. I hope they make it into the game eventually- especially the raven, because I love seeing them.
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Monitor
Grackodile
Profile Joined January 2011
United States263 Posts
August 08 2012 20:19 GMT
#9
On August 09 2012 05:18 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 05:16 Grackodile wrote:
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.


But it's also a map where Zerg have been able to get creep across the entire middle in a relatively short period of time, it makes sense they'd test changes to TvZ creep spread there.

Only map that'd make more sense would be maybe Cloud Kingdom.


Yeah that is a fair point.
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
August 08 2012 20:20 GMT
#10
Absolutely love all three of these changes.
Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
August 08 2012 20:20 GMT
#11
very nice stuff, might be less than I have hoped for, but definatly towards the right direction!
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
August 08 2012 20:20 GMT
#12
the highest level of tvz? I think we need to separate the stats for taeja vs z and other terrans vs z lol :O
sounds interesting o,o
@KawaiiRiceLighT
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 08 2012 20:22 GMT
#13
On August 09 2012 05:16 Grackodile wrote:
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.


It's difficult for any race to get past 4 bases on antiga.

Interesting changes I am actually a bit surprised I had assumed blizzard was going to wait until hots beta/release before any more balance changes.
When I think of something else, something will go here
ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
August 08 2012 20:22 GMT
#14
On August 09 2012 05:20 KawaiiRice wrote:
the highest level of tvz? I think we need to separate the stats for taeja vs z and other terrans vs z lol :O
sounds interesting o,o


Hey, Reality and ByuN are doing pretty damn good too!
Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
August 08 2012 20:23 GMT
#15
About time they buff the Raven speed and acceleration.
That thing was sluggish as hell in comparaison to Vessels.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
August 08 2012 20:23 GMT
#16
On August 09 2012 05:19 monitor wrote:
I think these are some safe changes, I like them. I hope they make it into the game eventually- especially the raven, because I love seeing them.


They actually said they plan on patch it in a week in the article, so it's a pretty safe bet. I don't like short test time, but I guess that's how they do these things.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
August 08 2012 20:24 GMT
#17
On August 09 2012 05:22 ShiroKaisen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 05:20 KawaiiRice wrote:
the highest level of tvz? I think we need to separate the stats for taeja vs z and other terrans vs z lol :O
sounds interesting o,o


Hey, Reality and ByuN are doing pretty damn good too!


Well, ByuN is doing well enough to lose in spectacular fashion... not sure if that's a good thing or not.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Bedrock
Profile Joined October 2010
United States395 Posts
August 08 2012 20:25 GMT
#18
Moar HSM, please!
eSports or die tryin'
Paperplane
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands1823 Posts
August 08 2012 20:25 GMT
#19
Nice changes. I'm happy they're taking small steps.
tuoli9
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland211 Posts
August 08 2012 20:26 GMT
#20
As a protoss these changes sound really nice. Raven needs a speed buff, and now that zergs are building more queens, creep spread is a little bit too fast.
1 2 3 4 5 79 80 81 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PondCast
13:00
Episode 63
CranKy Ducklings47
Liquipedia
Map Test Tournament
11:00
$450 3v3 Open Cup
WardiTV792
IndyStarCraft 218
Rex102
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 218
Rex 102
mcanning 55
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 55010
Calm 8490
Horang2 5113
Bisu 3029
EffOrt 567
Hyuk 564
Light 447
actioN 382
Mini 316
ZerO 311
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 176
Soma 125
Pusan 108
hero 105
Snow 95
Rush 93
Mind 88
ggaemo 79
Hyun 74
Sea.KH 45
Free 35
JYJ33
ToSsGirL 30
Aegong 29
sorry 26
PianO 24
HiyA 19
Sexy 19
scan(afreeca) 17
Terrorterran 13
Icarus 10
IntoTheRainbow 9
SilentControl 7
Dota 2
Gorgc5590
singsing3788
qojqva2537
Dendi1204
Fuzer 214
XcaliburYe169
Counter-Strike
zeus702
hiko511
markeloff199
oskar120
edward30
Other Games
gofns21088
tarik_tv16857
B2W.Neo991
Hui .340
DeMusliM338
Lowko294
XaKoH 129
Mlord112
ArmadaUGS108
QueenE71
RotterdaM65
byalli62
NeuroSwarm35
Trikslyr27
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis4173
• Jankos1410
Other Games
• WagamamaTV218
• Shiphtur121
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
19h 40m
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
1d 12h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 17h
RSL Revival
1d 19h
Reynor vs Cure
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.