• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:32
CET 13:32
KST 21:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly0Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win62025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!10BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION3Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams12
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4 SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Kirktown Chat Brawl #9 $50 8:30PM EST
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review Ladder Map Matchup Stats Map pack for 3v3/4v4/FFA games BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION [ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Dating: How's your luck? US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Big Reveal
Peanutsc
Challenge: Maths isn't all…
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1430 users

Call To Action: Balance Testing TvZ.

Forum Index > SC2 General
1619 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 79 80 81 Next
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16095 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-09 05:52:17
August 08 2012 20:13 GMT
#1
Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/6873704/Call_to_Action_Balance_Testing-8_8_2012

We’ve recently published a custom version of Antiga Shipyard, called "Antiga Shipyard 1.5.0 Balance v1.0," in which we’re testing a few small balance changes to StarCraft II. Our plan is to bring the changes to the game in a week or so. Here’s the situation:

Globally, matchups outside the professional level are balanced, and we see no significant issues.
As always, we are watching matchup balance in order to react as best as possible when issues do arise.
At the very highest levels of eSports competition, we feel that terran players are at a slight disadvantage against zerg. Many terran players, specifically those just below the very highest skill level, are underperforming in this matchup.
We’re dealing with this issue very carefully, because at the highest end of the pro level, terran players look about equal against protoss.
We’re making the smallest changes that we believe will address this.

Here’s what we’re testing:

Creep tumor build radius, vision radius, and creep spread radius decreased from 10 to 8.

This is a relatively minor change, but one that we feel will positively impact game balance at the highest levels of competition. After carefully watching as the pro game has shifted since zerg players started spreading creep more often, we noticed the increase in creep spread was only having a significant impact on TvZ. These are our goals with this change:

Keep the early game queen defenses and creep spreading viable, while at the same time making it slightly more difficult for the zerg pro to quickly spread creep across the whole map.
With tactics where a single creep tumor is being used, there is practically no change. Creep doesn’t spread fast enough for this change to make a difference at most levels of play.

Raven movement acceleration increased from 2 to 2.25.

Raven movement speed increased from 2.25 to 2.5.

After seeing pro players using the raven, we made these changes considering these two lines of reasoning:

Even the best micro players in the world were struggling to use the raven due to the slower acceleration and movement speed of the unit. Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors.
Because ravens are difficult to use, we don’t expect this buff will have more than a small impact on high-level play or any significant impact on balance at most skill levels.
Please log on, try out the changes for yourself, and then join our feedback thread. We’re looking forward to testing these changes with you, and will do our best to address the feedback we receive.


I'm happy to see the movement speed of the Raven FINALLY being addressed, the changes to creep spread are a bit of a head scratcher though imo. They go through all the trouble of making it easier for Zerg to cover the map in creep only to nerf the creep tumor? Odd choice to say the least.

EDIT: Picture of the new creep tumor radius.
On August 09 2012 06:55 Jaegeru wrote:
What the creep change looks like for anybody interested.

[image loading]


EDIT2: Video demonstrations of the new Raven speed.

+ Show Spoiler +


Facebook Twitter Reddit
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Cainam
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States421 Posts
August 08 2012 20:15 GMT
#2
As a player of all 3 races I think these are great changes. Very interested to see how it plays out
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
August 08 2012 20:15 GMT
#3
Interesting changes.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
tenklavir
Profile Joined November 2010
Slovakia116 Posts
August 08 2012 20:16 GMT
#4
Great changes, definitely eager to test.
Grackodile
Profile Joined January 2011
United States263 Posts
August 08 2012 20:16 GMT
#5
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
johnnywup
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3858 Posts
August 08 2012 20:17 GMT
#6
As a zerg I like these changes. good trying to get raven usage also.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16095 Posts
August 08 2012 20:18 GMT
#7
On August 09 2012 05:16 Grackodile wrote:
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.


But it's also a map where Zerg have been able to get creep across the entire middle in a relatively short period of time, it makes sense they'd test changes to TvZ creep spread there.

Only map that'd make more sense would be maybe Cloud Kingdom.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2408 Posts
August 08 2012 20:19 GMT
#8
I think these are some safe changes, I like them. I hope they make it into the game eventually- especially the raven, because I love seeing them.
https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Monitor
Grackodile
Profile Joined January 2011
United States263 Posts
August 08 2012 20:19 GMT
#9
On August 09 2012 05:18 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 05:16 Grackodile wrote:
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.


But it's also a map where Zerg have been able to get creep across the entire middle in a relatively short period of time, it makes sense they'd test changes to TvZ creep spread there.

Only map that'd make more sense would be maybe Cloud Kingdom.


Yeah that is a fair point.
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
August 08 2012 20:20 GMT
#10
Absolutely love all three of these changes.
Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
August 08 2012 20:20 GMT
#11
very nice stuff, might be less than I have hoped for, but definatly towards the right direction!
KawaiiRice
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2914 Posts
August 08 2012 20:20 GMT
#12
the highest level of tvz? I think we need to separate the stats for taeja vs z and other terrans vs z lol :O
sounds interesting o,o
@KawaiiRiceLighT
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 08 2012 20:22 GMT
#13
On August 09 2012 05:16 Grackodile wrote:
Why are they using Antiga as the test map? That map is extremely difficult to play past 3 base for Terran unless you get the middle established with tanks early on.


It's difficult for any race to get past 4 bases on antiga.

Interesting changes I am actually a bit surprised I had assumed blizzard was going to wait until hots beta/release before any more balance changes.
When I think of something else, something will go here
ShiroKaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States1082 Posts
August 08 2012 20:22 GMT
#14
On August 09 2012 05:20 KawaiiRice wrote:
the highest level of tvz? I think we need to separate the stats for taeja vs z and other terrans vs z lol :O
sounds interesting o,o


Hey, Reality and ByuN are doing pretty damn good too!
Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze!
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
August 08 2012 20:23 GMT
#15
About time they buff the Raven speed and acceleration.
That thing was sluggish as hell in comparaison to Vessels.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
August 08 2012 20:23 GMT
#16
On August 09 2012 05:19 monitor wrote:
I think these are some safe changes, I like them. I hope they make it into the game eventually- especially the raven, because I love seeing them.


They actually said they plan on patch it in a week in the article, so it's a pretty safe bet. I don't like short test time, but I guess that's how they do these things.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
August 08 2012 20:24 GMT
#17
On August 09 2012 05:22 ShiroKaisen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 05:20 KawaiiRice wrote:
the highest level of tvz? I think we need to separate the stats for taeja vs z and other terrans vs z lol :O
sounds interesting o,o


Hey, Reality and ByuN are doing pretty damn good too!


Well, ByuN is doing well enough to lose in spectacular fashion... not sure if that's a good thing or not.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Bedrock
Profile Joined October 2010
United States395 Posts
August 08 2012 20:25 GMT
#18
Moar HSM, please!
eSports or die tryin'
Paperplane
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands1823 Posts
August 08 2012 20:25 GMT
#19
Nice changes. I'm happy they're taking small steps.
tuoli9
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland211 Posts
August 08 2012 20:26 GMT
#20
As a protoss these changes sound really nice. Raven needs a speed buff, and now that zergs are building more queens, creep spread is a little bit too fast.
1 2 3 4 5 79 80 81 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#58
WardiTV339
OGKoka 235
Rex94
IntoTheiNu 18
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
09:00
Crank Gathers S2: Playoffs D3
CranKy Ducklings150
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 235
Lowko100
Rex 94
MindelVK 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7021
Sea 5442
Jaedong 2376
actioN 781
firebathero 656
Mini 328
Rush 193
PianO 181
Barracks 72
Mong 70
[ Show more ]
Killer 57
ToSsGirL 54
Sharp 42
soO 24
Icarus 15
HiyA 12
Sacsri 11
Terrorterran 9
Dota 2
XcaliburYe114
Counter-Strike
zeus777
x6flipin427
edward36
Other Games
summit1g14875
singsing1430
B2W.Neo1128
crisheroes313
Sick213
Hui .186
QueenE13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick486
Counter-Strike
PGL176
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3164
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
4h 28m
Replay Cast
10h 28m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
21h 28m
WardiTV Korean Royale
23h 28m
LAN Event
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 23h
LAN Event
2 days
OSC
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
LAN Event
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
LAN Event
5 days
IPSL
5 days
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
LAN Event
6 days
IPSL
6 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.