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Call To Action: Balance Testing TvZ. - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
1619 CommentsPost a Reply
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Code
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada634 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 20:27:54
August 08 2012 20:26 GMT
#21
So the Raven would be the same speed as a Medivac or slow Warp Prism and a bit slower than a Banshee (2.75).

Hmm guess it could help micro out of fungals and get Seeker Missiles off easier.

EDIT: I always imagined the Raven as a unit that wasnt "fast" but had quick acceleration from stopped position for some reason
Zeon0
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria2995 Posts
August 08 2012 20:26 GMT
#22
sure, lets make Terran even better in ultralategame energy wars
Hater of MKP since GSL Open Season 2 | Fanboy of: NesTea Stephano IdrA DIMAGA MorroW ret DongRaeGu Snute SaSe Mvp ThorZaIN DeMusliM
Denzil
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom4193 Posts
August 08 2012 20:27 GMT
#23
i much prefer how they're giving us a chance to test it as to forcing it upon us

I think that this is a much better approach from blizzard
Anna: So Sen how will you prepare for your revenge v MC? Sen: With a smile.
kaokentake
Profile Joined July 2012
383 Posts
August 08 2012 20:27 GMT
#24
I think the PERFECT way to fix creep would be to simply make creep dissipate essentially instantly, making cleaning up creep more powerful


range reduction nerfs it too... but meh id rather just use my above idea
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25562 Posts
August 08 2012 20:27 GMT
#25
On August 09 2012 05:23 Noocta wrote:
About time they buff the Raven speed and acceleration.
That thing was sluggish as hell in comparaison to Vessels.


Yeah I actually think this is a really thoughtful buff by Blizzard. They want to give terran some solid late-game options, and by buffing the Raven's maneuverability (as opposed to the range or strength of seeker missiles) it's likely not to go overboard with the buff.

The creep tumor nerf strikes me as a bit weird. I don't think it's a good idea because a lot of maps are balanced on how many tumors it takes to reach the nat, third, etc-- but I can see why they're doing it. I think if they wanted to nerf creep spread, reducing queen range to 4, or perhaps making tumors cost more energy or cool-down slower, would be better. Nerfing the actual radius of the creep tumor seems like it could be too heavy-handed imo.

Overall, though, it looks good. I can't wait to try it out.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Recoil
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States276 Posts
August 08 2012 20:27 GMT
#26
Pretty minor changes, about whats needed imo
XaCez
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden6991 Posts
August 08 2012 20:27 GMT
#27
The problem with Seeker Missile is that its cast range is only 6, it gets shut down before it gets into range. However, I have no complaints in regards to the changes made.
People get too easily offended by people getting too easily offended by the word rape.
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
August 08 2012 20:28 GMT
#28
Good changes, but there should be some lategame z nerfs or some real raven buffs imo.
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
August 08 2012 20:28 GMT
#29
On August 09 2012 05:26 Zeon0 wrote:
sure, lets make Terran even better in ultralategame energy wars


Cuz Queen / Infestors in combinaison with Hive tech isn't already beast at lategame energy wars, heh ?
They are taking the smallest step possible in buffing the unit, no need to be afraid honestly.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Tritanis
Profile Joined November 2007
Poland344 Posts
August 08 2012 20:28 GMT
#30
Someone make a video comparison, quickly!
I live, I serve, I die for the Metal
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
August 08 2012 20:28 GMT
#31
On August 09 2012 05:26 Zeon0 wrote:
sure, lets make Terran even better in ultralategame energy wars


Huh? Terran been pretty bad at energy war since ghost nerf. Unless you count mule, but then you have to count inject / chrono also.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
jcroisdale
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1543 Posts
August 08 2012 20:28 GMT
#32
Changes seem good all around. Hope to see more people putting at least 1 raven in their armies.
"I think bringing a toddler to a movie theater is a terrible idea. They are too young to understand what is happening it would be like giving your toddler acid. Bad idea." - Sinensis
Denzil
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom4193 Posts
August 08 2012 20:28 GMT
#33
On August 09 2012 05:27 kaokentake wrote:
I think the PERFECT way to fix creep would be to simply make creep dissipate essentially instantly, making cleaning up creep more powerful


range reduction nerfs it too... but meh id rather just use my above idea


in that case when creep tumors are planted they should cover the specified area instantly as well
Anna: So Sen how will you prepare for your revenge v MC? Sen: With a smile.
archonOOid
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1983 Posts
August 08 2012 20:29 GMT
#34
I like the change it will make the truly best zerg creep spreaders a chance to distance set them apart from an average creep spreader.
I'm Quotable (IQ)
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
August 08 2012 20:30 GMT
#35
Small changes but good ones, glad Blizzard is finally addressing this. Ravens were far too slow before hopefully this will help them become more viable.
Irre
Profile Joined August 2010
United States646 Posts
August 08 2012 20:30 GMT
#36
woudl be nice if they buffed the raven to not take an hour to get an ability lol, but at least they are doing SOMETHING. I don't think it will help the general population though.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
August 08 2012 20:30 GMT
#37
On August 09 2012 05:27 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 05:23 Noocta wrote:
About time they buff the Raven speed and acceleration.
That thing was sluggish as hell in comparaison to Vessels.


Yeah I actually think this is a really thoughtful buff by Blizzard. They want to give terran some solid late-game options, and by buffing the Raven's maneuverability (as opposed to the range or strength of seeker missiles) it's likely not to go overboard with the buff.

The creep tumor nerf strikes me as a bit weird. I don't think it's a good idea because a lot of maps are balanced on how many tumors it takes to reach the nat, third, etc-- but I can see why they're doing it. I think if they wanted to nerf creep spread, reducing queen range to 4, or perhaps making tumors cost more energy or cool-down slower, would be better. Nerfing the actual radius of the creep tumor seems like it could be too heavy-handed imo.

Overall, though, it looks good. I can't wait to try it out.



I think creep tumor is more important. A big problem with TvZ is that Zerg can completely goo up the 4th making it impossible to take unless you park a sizable army there.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 20:33:27
August 08 2012 20:30 GMT
#38
Great changes!
especially the raven changes.
They even might give hsm extra range (even though not mentioned).

On August 09 2012 05:30 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 05:27 Blazinghand wrote:
On August 09 2012 05:23 Noocta wrote:
About time they buff the Raven speed and acceleration.
That thing was sluggish as hell in comparaison to Vessels.


Yeah I actually think this is a really thoughtful buff by Blizzard. They want to give terran some solid late-game options, and by buffing the Raven's maneuverability (as opposed to the range or strength of seeker missiles) it's likely not to go overboard with the buff.

The creep tumor nerf strikes me as a bit weird. I don't think it's a good idea because a lot of maps are balanced on how many tumors it takes to reach the nat, third, etc-- but I can see why they're doing it. I think if they wanted to nerf creep spread, reducing queen range to 4, or perhaps making tumors cost more energy or cool-down slower, would be better. Nerfing the actual radius of the creep tumor seems like it could be too heavy-handed imo.

Overall, though, it looks good. I can't wait to try it out.



I think creep tumor is more important. A big problem with TvZ is that Zerg can completely goo up the 4th making it impossible to take unless you park a sizable army there.

Also, agree with this

On August 09 2012 05:30 Irre wrote:
woudl be nice if they buffed the raven to not take an hour to get an ability lol, but at least they are doing SOMETHING. I don't think it will help the general population though.

It isn't meant to. This is for just under highest level; i can imagine high master, low GM.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16125 Posts
August 08 2012 20:30 GMT
#39
On August 09 2012 05:28 jcroisdale wrote:
Changes seem good all around. Hope to see more people putting at least 1 raven in their armies.


With a change like this it makes it a lot easier.

The only thing slower than Ravens prior to this were Thors in the Terran army. Upping their speed to that of Medivacs makes it much easier to keep track of them and a lot less likely that they'll get picked off while trying to retreat.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
IRL_SinisterR
Profile Joined August 2012
Ireland20 Posts
August 08 2012 20:33 GMT
#40
On August 09 2012 05:13 Vindicare605 wrote:
Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/6873704/Call_to_Action_Balance_Testing-8_8_2012

Show nested quote +
We’ve recently published a custom version of Antiga Shipyard, called "Antiga Shipyard 1.5.0 Balance v1.0," in which we’re testing a few small balance changes to StarCraft II. Our plan is to bring the changes to the game in a week or so. Here’s the situation:

Globally, matchups outside the professional level are balanced, and we see no significant issues.
As always, we are watching matchup balance in order to react as best as possible when issues do arise.
At the very highest levels of eSports competition, we feel that terran players are at a slight disadvantage against zerg. Many terran players, specifically those just below the very highest skill level, are underperforming in this matchup.
We’re dealing with this issue very carefully, because at the highest end of the pro level, terran players look about equal against protoss.
We’re making the smallest changes that we believe will address this.

Here’s what we’re testing:

Creep tumor build radius, vision radius, and creep spread radius decreased from 10 to 8.

This is a relatively minor change, but one that we feel will positively impact game balance at the highest levels of competition. After carefully watching as the pro game has shifted since zerg players started spreading creep more often, we noticed the increase in creep spread was only having a significant impact on TvZ. These are our goals with this change:

Keep the early game queen defenses and creep spreading viable, while at the same time making it slightly more difficult for the zerg pro to quickly spread creep across the whole map.
With tactics where a single creep tumor is being used, there is practically no change. Creep doesn’t spread fast enough for this change to make a difference at most levels of play.

Raven movement acceleration increased from 2 to 2.25.

Raven movement speed increased from 2.25 to 2.5.

After seeing pro players using the raven, we made these changes considering these two lines of reasoning:

Even the best micro players in the world were struggling to use the raven due to the slower acceleration and movement speed of the unit. Seeker missile cost or cast range appear to be secondary factors.
Because ravens are difficult to use, we don’t expect this buff will have more than a small impact on high-level play or any significant impact on balance at most skill levels.
Please log on, try out the changes for yourself, and then join our feedback thread. We’re looking forward to testing these changes with you, and will do our best to address the feedback we receive.


I'm happy to see the movement speed of the Raven FINALLY being addressed, the changes to creep spread are a bit of a head scratcher though imo. They go through all the trouble of making it easier for Zerg to cover the map in creep only to nerf the creep tumor? Odd choice to say the least.


It's because Blizzard would never embarass themselves by nerfing the Queen again.
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