EPTCall To Action: Balance Testing TvZ. - Page 3
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:28 ragz_gt wrote: Huh? Terran been pretty bad at energy war since ghost nerf. Unless you count mule, but then you have to count inject / chrono also. You didn't see Gumiho vs. Soulkey did you? | ||
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:33 IRL_SinisterR wrote: It's because Blizzard would never embarass themselves by nerfing the Queen again. what? Blizzard aren't afraid to embarrass themselves when it comes to balance I mean just look at the bunker | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
Both those changes are nice, but I'm not sure it will fix the dumbing down of earlygame ZvT and the zerg advantage of the lategame. Step in the right direction I guess. | ||
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NuKedUFirst
Canada3139 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:25 Bedrock wrote: Moar HSM, please! yessssssss I am a fan of these changes. The creep tumor vision seems huge, while it does take time to spread creep effectively I think they benefited from it a little too much.. Back in BW if you wanted vision like this you had to burrow zerglings. However vZ you never knew if you were scouted on not | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:34 Denzil wrote: hehe, besides blizzard said themselves they wouldn't hesitate to nerf queens if they feel it to be necessary.what? Blizzard aren't afraid to embarrass themselves when it comes to balance I mean just look at the bunker | ||
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Skytt
Scotland333 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:34 Whitewing wrote: You didn't see Gumiho vs. Soulkey did you? Soulkey was practically giving Gumiho free EMP hits | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
I feel like they could have just put queen range back to 3, but smaller creep radius might work. It will at least have more of an impact than raven speed. | ||
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kblueriver
Argentina430 Posts
Not sure if it would be a wise idea to do both blizz's nerf on tumors and my idea, perhaps it's a bit too much, but I'd rather do my idea, let zerg spread easily but let us unspread the creep just as easily. Raven buff seems quite nice, we see too few ravens. | ||
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imEnex
Canada500 Posts
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Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:34 Whitewing wrote: You didn't see Gumiho vs. Soulkey did you? That would never work against GSL Zerg, as we found out already half year ago. Gumiho chose that strategy because he rightfully expected KeSPA players not be able to handle it properly, since they never played through 20 ghost end game phase and have no experience dealing with it since no one uses it on ladder (with good reason). | ||
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Sc2ttyl
United States245 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:36 Skytt wrote: Soulkey was practically giving Gumiho free EMP hits It's still not as hard as people think, and Gumiho was going up to 15-20 ghosts. Even if you can't get free EMPs, you can still snipe every infestor or just snipe the overseers and then cloak and go to town. The terran army can straight up kill broodlord based armies or ultralisk based armies pretty easily if there aren't any infestors to deal with, so focus on negating the infestors. People think that for some reason because snipe was nerfed vs. Broods and Ultras that ghosts are useless in the matchup (snipe was actually buffed vs. infestors), they aren't, they're just an anti-caster unit (and a really good one) rather than an army annihilator. | ||
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RenSC2
United States1091 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:13 Vindicare605 wrote: I'm happy to see the movement speed of the Raven FINALLY being addressed, the changes to creep spread are a bit of a head scratcher though imo. They go through all the trouble of making it easier for Zerg to cover the map in creep only to nerf the creep tumor? Odd choice to say the least. They didn't intentionally make it easier for creep to spread across the map. They used the queen buff to plug a gap in zerg's defense, which had the unintended consequence of having a lot of queens with energy to burn and that increased the creep spread greatly. So now they're doing something to tune it down just a bit. Personally, I think slightly reducing the amount of time for creep to recede would be the better choice, but this seems like an okay solution. I like the change to the raven. Subtle changes can really bring attention to an underused unit and can sometimes have some very far reaching consequences. A slight speed bump may be exactly what the raven needed. We'll have to see. Overall, I think a nice balance update for Blizzard if they go through with it. | ||
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DoeniDon
Switzerland100 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:13 Vindicare605 wrote: I'm happy to see the movement speed of the Raven FINALLY being addressed, the changes to creep spread are a bit of a head scratcher though imo. They go through all the trouble of making it easier for Zerg to cover the map in creep only to nerf the creep tumor? Odd choice to say the least. I don't think the queen buff was done to make it easy for zerg to cover the entire map with creep, it was mainly to "deal" with hellion openings and most early pressure, as well as allowing zergs to get an early third base. Anyway I think the changes are good, most complaints seem to be about creep anyway, so nerfing it slightly should make everyone happy. | ||
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Skytt
Scotland333 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:38 ragz_gt wrote: That would never work against GSL Zerg, as we found out already half year ago. Gumiho chose that strategy because he rightfully expected KeSPA players not be able to handle it properly, since they never played through 20 ghost end game phase and have no experience dealing with it since no one uses it on ladder (with good reason). 20 ghost end game was so you could faceroll over brood lords and ultras with one unit, not so you could EMP infestors, which should still be done today. edit: On August 09 2012 05:38 Whitewing wrote: It's still not as hard as people think, and Gumiho was going up to 15-20 ghosts. Even if you can't get free EMPs, you can still snipe every infestor or just snipe the overseers and then cloak and go to town. The terran army can straight up kill broodlord based armies or ultralisk based armies pretty easily if there aren't any infestors to deal with, so focus on negating the infestors. People think that for some reason because snipe was nerfed vs. Broods and Ultras that ghosts are useless in the matchup (snipe was actually buffed vs. infestors), they aren't, they're just an anti-caster unit (and a really good one) rather than an army annihilator. I didn't realise he had that many ghosts. I agree with you that terrans should stop believing ghosts are useless. EMP is still the hardest hitting AoE in the game vP, they tear up templars, archons and infestors as well as being beefy enough to kill zealots and lings on their own. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16122 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:36 SolidMoose wrote: Hm. The raven change is more than fair, but I don't think it will really fix anything. I don't think the core problem with the unit was the speed but a mix of cost + range of seeker missile being shorter than fungal. I feel like they could have just put queen range back to 3, but smaller creep radius might work. It will at least have more of an impact than raven speed. The speed is definitely a huge problem with the unit. It made it difficult to use just as a basic detection unit because of how easily it could be picked off while trying to retreat. Blizzard is right that the range and cast cost of HSM is a secondary problem. Even if that was buffed the speed would still be an issue. This way, if the Raven's speed is improved but still totally underused they'll finally have a real reason to address its actual spells. (and personally I'd address auto-turrets before HSM just because I think it's dumb that auto-turrets damage doesn't scale with upgrades while Infested Terrans and Broodlings both do.) | ||
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