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NoGasfOu
United States1117 Posts
On August 08 2012 23:36 ELA wrote: Note that TaeJa is carrying the Korean Terran TLPD :D What are you talking about? Taeja exited the GSL early. How could he carry Korean terrans but not Byun, the last terran standing? Most of Taeja's games were in foreign tournaments. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 09 2012 09:33 NoGasfOu wrote: What are you talking about? Taeja exited the GSL early. How could he carry Korean terrans but not Byun, the last terran standing? Most of Taeja's games were in foreign tournaments. He supposedly went 10-1 in TvZ in July for Korean TLPD. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On August 09 2012 09:33 NoGasfOu wrote: What are you talking about? Taeja exited the GSL early. How could he carry Korean terrans but not Byun, the last terran standing? Most of Taeja's games were in foreign tournaments. apparently round of 8 is early now. | ||
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ETisME
12859 Posts
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Berceno
Spain401 Posts
On August 09 2012 13:48 ETisME wrote: why doesn't anyone comment on the PvT and PvZ where P clearly is doing better in both korea and internationally by quite a fairly large margin because is 45%-55% ( so it's balanced), international winrate is zerg favoured, korean stats are worst ( less games) and pvz is a MU where 90% of the games are all-in and nobody give a s*** about it | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10382 Posts
Also wow how is terran still favored in TvZ haha | ||
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Kapouais
France5 Posts
When people say that top Terran are much better players than Zerg/Protoss overall but barely win because the game is imbalance, everyone is like "Oh stop with that, this argument is stupid !". Then, two posts later you read stuff like "If international Terran have a 45% winrate, it's because they suck" ... Or few people saying that the TvZ matchup is Terran FAVORED in Korea because the ratio is 50.2/49.8, but when it was 47/53, it was perfectly fine and balanced ! | ||
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Charon1979
Austria317 Posts
Or few people saying that the TvZ matchup is Terran FAVORED in Korea because the ratio is 50.2/49.8, but when it was 47/53, it was perfectly fine and balanced ! According to Terran the game was also balanced Sept - Feb and Zerg players just have to l2p, so dont give to much credit to these discussions. If the graph doesnt support your biased opinion, pick one or more: a) to small sample size b) doesnt contain all tournaments c) X players carry the whole race d) he must made that up e) Thats because they only all-in f) my stomach tells otherwise! | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
But take a step or two back (skillwise) and it is a total disaster. I've been following weekly EU tournaments like Go4SC2 and Pokerstrategy for some time now. These things turned into ugly PvZ / ZvZ fests. Whenever some terran makes it high into the bracket the audience acts really confused, stating things like: "wow, there are 3 races in SC2?". If you follow more of the SC2 scene than just the very top of it you can see that some things just do not work out all that great. | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On August 09 2012 16:33 Charon1979 wrote: well, yes, the most important tournament missing from tlpd is the code a qualifier, which is understandable, due to that there only incomplete data about itIf the graph doesnt support your biased opinion, pick one or more: b) doesnt contain all tournaments look at what happened in the code a ro48. 10 zergs and only 4 terrans qualified, whereupon most of the 10 zergs promptly got smacked down by code s caliber players. bomber vs freaky is a particularly enlightening series, because freaky played terrible relative to what you'd expect a GM KR player to look like and still proved insanely difficult to break let's see what happens in up and down this season, as it's going to involve a bunch of well established terrans and a bunch of relatively unestablished zergs | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
On August 09 2012 07:56 Poopi wrote: The funny thing is that it includes the 50% TvZ winrate from korea. Poor foreign terrans  .Yep, lest us not forget that it even includes the Koreans | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
On August 10 2012 01:57 zmansman17 wrote: Yes, Korean zergs as well as terrans. Point?Yep, lest us not forget that it even includes the Koreans | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On August 10 2012 02:40 whatevername wrote: Yes, Korean zergs as well as terrans. Point? You seem a bit on the slower side, so I'll explain. International TvZ has korean TvZ stats into it, yet it's still at 45/55. Korean TvZ is boosting international TvZ to the 45/55 that we see. If korean stats weren't there to boost the matchup percentages in favor of terran, the difference would be even larger by several percentage units. Thus, terran is even weaker internationally/terran players are even worse internationally than the stats show (and korean terrans are even more amazing than we previously thought.) | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On August 10 2012 02:40 whatevername wrote: Yes, Korean zergs as well as terrans. Point? Because foreign are filled with Zerg and Protoss, if a Korean Zerg comes, he will play ZvZ ZvP a lot, which doesn't really affect ZvT that much. But if a Korean Terran comes, he will play TvZ and TvP a lot, which he will win and effectively boost TvZ, TvP international winrate, which looks bad for foreign Terran. And i'm joking of course, don't take me serious. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On August 09 2012 16:33 Charon1979 wrote: According to Terran the game was also balanced Sept - Feb and Zerg players just have to l2p Oh I forgot that terrans across the world communicate through hive mind and that any opinion expressed by a single platinum terran player on a forum is actually the will of the Terran Collective. Silly me. | ||
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Iyerbeth
England2410 Posts
I thought the discussion on how silly that is was over ages ago? | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
On August 10 2012 02:50 Dalavita wrote: You seem a bit on the slow side, so I'll explain: That doesnt fucking matter. International stats are literally irrelevant, they take in low masters all the way up to top korean players and all the lopsided results inbetween. We cant assume that kor tvz=50:50, that when brought into the equation they go 50:50 and thus increase or decrease the total result. Koreans play in both major and minor tournaments against good and bad players, some being knocked out early by protoss and others playing a series of mirrors; their results in any given month will be heavily dependent on who they reach within the bracket. You seem a bit on the slower side, so I'll explain. International TvZ has korean TvZ stats into it, yet it's still at 45/55. Korean TvZ is boosting international TvZ to the 45/55 that we see. If korean stats weren't there to boost the matchup percentages in favor of terran, the difference would be even larger by several percentage units. Thus, terran is even weaker internationally/terran players are even worse internationally than the stats show (and korean terrans are even more amazing than we previously thought.) So the stats as a whole are not reliable, nor are the korean influence on them predictable. This is self evident. | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On August 10 2012 03:47 whatevername wrote: You seem a bit on the slow side, so I'll explain: That doesnt fucking matter. International stats are literally irrelevant, they take in low masters all the way up to top korean players and all the lopsided results inbetween. We cant assume that kor tvz=50:50, that when brought into the equation they go 50:50 and thus increase or decrease the total result. Koreans play in both major and minor tournaments against good and bad players, some being knocked out early by protoss and others playing a series of mirrors; their results in any given month will be heavily dependent on who they reach within the bracket. So the stats as a whole are not reliable, nor are the korean influence on them predictable. This is self evident. What are you even on about? I haven't argued whether the stats are relevant or not. Simply that the korean stats themselves in the TLPD are part of the international stats unless I've been misinformed. If this is the case, international TvZ without the korean TLPD stats baked into it are worse off in terrans favor than the international graph shows. Whether that's because korean zergs played and dominated NA terrans this time around or not is not part of the argument. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On August 10 2012 03:47 whatevername wrote: You seem a bit on the slow side, so I'll explain: That doesnt fucking matter. International stats are literally irrelevant, they take in low masters all the way up to top korean players and all the lopsided results inbetween. We cant assume that kor tvz=50:50, that when brought into the equation they go 50:50 and thus increase or decrease the total result. Koreans play in both major and minor tournaments against good and bad players, some being knocked out early by protoss and others playing a series of mirrors; their results in any given month will be heavily dependent on who they reach within the bracket. So the stats as a whole are not reliable, nor are the korean influence on them predictable. This is self evident. How are they not predictable? If what Dalvita is saying is correct, it should be really simple. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
If you take Stephano out of internation results i bet the PvZ is bigger etcetc. Terran didn't know how to handle 5/6 queen builds Zerg through at them end of june, begining of july, now they are doing fine, it's pretty balanced imo. All match ups look balanced to me, with maybe PvT still needed to be looked at, but i think 52% winrate is ok, but may need effecting if goes any higher | ||
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