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Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
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On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote:
Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. Except, I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had OSL, GSL, GSTL which I wouldnt call dodging the competition if they are playing Round of 4 GSL and OSL (which is probably the most important tournament for some that hteyve ever played in.)
To be honest if arena was on another weekend and those aforementioned players could have attended, we may even have a different winner (no disrespect to a great player in TaeJa)
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Such an old map pool, what are you doing MLG ?
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NOTE on the special invites, it has been said over and over again why they invite certain players and it is for the fanbase... The KESPA players are like the new thing, people want to see them compete (even if they flunk out hard) it will draw viewership to see Jaedong playing MVP (as an example) it also applies for foreigner players as well with the GSL, the reason GSL invites foreigner players is so Europeans/North Americans will tune in late at night or buy subscription to see there favorite players play, could you imagine players like Thorzain or Huk making it through Code B into Code A and then into Code S? They require the invites, you can argue that they could do it on there own (and maybe you're right) but its extremely doubtful.
So out of everything, strictly marketing special invites are going to always be around, as they should be, because some players are more in demand than others and sadly skill isn't everything, fan base and viewership are big reasons events even happen.
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On July 28 2012 08:08 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote:
Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition. My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
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Only problem with the tournament is the maps...geez, TDA and Shakuras? Whatever, I'll be there screaming my lungs out in person (yeahhh Raleigh)!
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Get rid of the 8 invites, put them into the open bracket instead (if you must, seed them into round 4, which puts them a round below the losing side of Arena). It's utterly unfair that some people will be invited and be ranked higher than people who qualified for Arena, even if those people lost.
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On July 28 2012 08:15 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:08 TommyP wrote:On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote:
Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition. My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations. Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship. Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier. Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Im sure they would have all gone to Arena if they didnt have other tournametns they already planned on attending. I dont think invites are good, i do think that giving the 8 seeds to players like DRG, MKP, Inori, Polt, Leenock and others would be better than giving it to kespa that would just lose.
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On July 28 2012 08:13 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
NOTE on the special invites, it has been said over and over again why they invite certain players and it is for the fanbase... The KESPA players are like the new thing, people want to see them compete (even if they flunk out hard) it will draw viewership to see Jaedong playing MVP (as an example) it also applies for foreigner players as well with the GSL, the reason GSL invites foreigner players is so Europeans/North Americans will tune in late at night or buy subscription to see there favorite players play, could you imagine players like Thorzain or Huk making it through Code B into Code A and then into Code S? They require the invites, you can argue that they could do it on there own (and maybe you're right) but its extremely doubtful.
So out of everything, strictly marketing special invites are going to always be around, as they should be, because some players are more in demand than others and sadly skill isn't everything, fan base and viewership are big reasons events even happen.
The difference between the two examples you listed is that there are limiting factors (read: money) that make it very hard to participate in the qualifiers for the GSL.
The MLG Arena qualifiers don't have such a limit: they are online so the only thing they require is time and possibly the 10$ (if I remember correctly) for the open tournament. To anyone playing at a professional level a 10$ entry fee should not be an issue.
The MLG Arena itself also doesn't have a financial limit: travel and hotel is fully covered. The only "problem" is that it takes time, but then again every tournament requires time.
I can not see a reason behind seeding when your tournament (assuming we're talking about open or qualifier based tournaments) is set up in such a way that there are limiting factors that are special to your tournament. Time is not such a factor as everything takes time.
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"eight players that will be announced later"
Is this a joke?? Why in gods name do you do MLG arena if you just gonna shit on the players who worked hard to deserve those spots?. Giving invites to people who dont deserve to be there but somehow are very popular in the scene is a discrace to the competitive scene.
Is this Esport?
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On July 28 2012 08:17 TommyP wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:15 Wroshe wrote:On July 28 2012 08:08 TommyP wrote:On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote:
Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition. My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations. Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship. Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier. Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more? Im sure they would have all gone to Arena if they didnt have other tournametns they already planned on attending. I dont think invites are good, i do think that giving the 8 seeds to players like DRG, MKP, Inori, Polt, Leenock and others would be better than giving it to kespa that would just lose.
Regardless of whether they would have come themselves, we are talking about mentally competent adults making a decision. A decision that (like every other one) has it's pros and it's cons. Why should tournament organisers roll over on teams after they made a well thought out decision?
Remember that Slayers decided to still send Squirtle and Puzzle the NASL even though they still had to play GSTL at the same time. Slayers weighed the pros and cons and decided to send their players overseas.
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On July 28 2012 07:49 joon wrote:statement from sundance regarding the map pool issue here.
Pretty much what I expect from Sundance and one reason why I probably won't send any more money towards MLG.
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On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote:
Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
MLG has always been more about show than sports. But imo its ok to have one competition that is like that, as long as its not the only one. Its a typcal American event.
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On July 28 2012 07:37 MarcH wrote:
So to give MLG a helping hand I decided to create a good map pool (by asking prodiG on twitter) and here it is
Cloud Kingdom
Ohana
Daybreak
Khaydaria
Whirlwind
Thats a small compact map pool only 2 non ladder maps one is used by GSL so is likely to become more common anyway and you only have one sort of new map which is still getting played by top Korean pro's
That would be one sick map pool
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On July 28 2012 06:24 FairForever wrote:
Stage 2) Is there extended series (assuming it is possible for the two players to play more than once in stage 2)
Stage 3) Is this double elimination? This could still lead to extended series, no?
I personally think they've found the happy medium. The extended series still exists but your performance against a certain player on day 1 won't carry over to day 3 and the final is a straight up bo7. This is exactly how I've always wanted MLG to be, I'm fine with the extended series so long as it means something, before you could lose from jet lag on day 1 and then be at a 2-0 disadantage in the grand finals, 2 days later.
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On July 28 2012 08:15 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:08 TommyP wrote:On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote:
Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition. My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations. Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship. Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier. Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
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On July 28 2012 08:23 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote:
Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition. MLG has always been more about show than sports. But imo its ok to have one competion that is like that, as long as its not the only one. Its a typcal American event.
Oh, from a business point of view it would be an excellent decision to invite some big names that your audience will like. The second you decide to mix random invites in with seeding and qualifiers then you however turn your event from a genuine tournament into a business based venture.
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On July 28 2012 08:26 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:23 Redox wrote:On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote:
Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition. MLG has always been more about show than sports. But imo its ok to have one competion that is like that, as long as its not the only one. Its a typcal American event. Oh, from a business point of view it would be an excellent decision to invite some big names that your audience will like. The second you decide to mix random invites in with seeding and qualifiers then you however turn your event from a genuine tournament into a business based venture.
And when that happend starcraft 2 as a sport is pretty much dead
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On July 28 2012 08:25 Aeceus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:15 Wroshe wrote:On July 28 2012 08:08 TommyP wrote:On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote:
Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition. My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations. Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship. Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier. Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more? Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
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On July 28 2012 08:26 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 08:23 Redox wrote:On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote:
Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition. MLG has always been more about show than sports. But imo its ok to have one competion that is like that, as long as its not the only one. Its a typcal American event. Oh, from a business point of view it would be an excellent decision to invite some big names that your audience will like. The second you decide to mix random invites in with seeding and qualifiers then you however turn your event from a genuine tournament into a business based venture.
It is a business based venture. Still not as bad as NFL and the other big American sports, where you buy yourself into the competition.
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EPT
