We’re pleased to announce an exciting new StarCraft II Event format for the Summer Championship, which will be hitting Raleigh on August 24-26. The StarCraft II Event will be comprised of three stages:
Stage 1
As in all 2012 StarCraft II Championship Events, the Summer Championship Event’s first stage will be a massive, double-elimination Open Bracket. The Open Bracket is again constructed so it is impossible to play the same player twice. New for Summer is the fact that Open Bracket match history will not be carried over into the latter stages of the Event.
Stage 2
Group Play has replaced Pool Play as the second stage of the Event, and there are some major differences between the two:
Group Play is made up of four separate double elimination brackets.
32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group.
24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Like Pool Play, Group Play placement will determine a player’s starting position in the Championship Bracket. And like the Open Bracket, Group Play match history will not be carried over into the third stage of the Event.
Stage 3
The Championship Bracket is the third stage of the Event and like the Summer Arena, it is broken up into two separate brackets. Each bracket will progress until only one player is left. The final two players will then compete for the Summer Championship Title in the Best-of-7 Final match.
StarCraft II Summer Championship Registration is currently sold out, but passes may become available in the coming weeks. If you weren’t able to get one, join the Waiting List for a chance to compete! Keep your eyes on majorleaguegaming.com for the announcement of the Groups, the complete Open Bracket lineup, and full information about what to expect if you’re coming to the event as a competitor or spectator, or watching from home.
On July 28 2012 06:20 Noocta wrote: For the love of God, update the map pool....
Yeah, Ohana should definatly be in for Shakuras and Tal'Darim Altar. Not immediatly sure what the last spot should be, leaning towards Whirlwind but we currently only really have 6 maps that are "good" and get enough playtime.
Well we are off to a good start. like the changes so far. I'm a little confused about the wording of the second stage but I guess I'll probably figure it out or just wait until the event happens and I'll be able to see how the brackets go.
On July 28 2012 06:24 Diamond wrote: Yet again another MLG, yet again another awful map pool.
I can't figure it out.....
At this point it can only be attributed to either being clueless or being lazy. Because I cannot fathom a world where MLG intentionally wanted to screw over their own events, their own viewers and their own players.
- Goldminerals on Antiga need to go ( perhaps the map too ) - Shakuras and Taldarim are too old. - Get Ohana in. - Stop modifying maps, there's a reason mapmakers make them like they are. ( metropolis island )
On July 28 2012 06:37 Noocta wrote: In case MLG is clueless :
- Goldminerals on Antiga need to go ( perhaps the map too ) - Shakuras and Taldarim are too old. - Get Ohana in. - Stop modifying maps, there's a reason mapmakers make them like they are. ( metropolis island )
Are there really still golds on antiga? I thought everyone had fixed them to blues a long long time ago.
" 24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players."
Anyone else wondering about this? I'm thinking it might be 8 kespa guys (in fact I'd be willing to bet that it is) but still, not sure how I feel about this if they're invites and not qualifiers, which it sounds like is whats happening
EDIT: Because mules are no longer rediculous on gold bases I don't think its necessarily bad that theres still gold bases
Why not just make it a 32 players (16 from open bracket, top 16 from Arena) groupstage (8 groups with 4 players) where the top 2 of each group advance and then play in a ro16 single elimination bracket.
Much simpler than the confusing shit you're doing with the championship bracket and much more exciting for the viewer.
On July 28 2012 06:43 Champloo wrote: Why not just make it a 32 players (16 from open bracket, top 16 from Arena) groupstage (8 groups with 4 players) where the top 2 of each group advance and then play in a ro16 single elimination bracket.
Much simpler than the confusing shit you're doing with the championship bracket and much more exciting for the viewer.
Because then the open bracket becomes a complete mess and would take a long time to complete.
On July 28 2012 06:41 chipmonklord17 wrote: " 24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players."
Anyone else wondering about this? I'm thinking it might be 8 kespa guys (in fact I'd be willing to bet that it is) but still, not sure how I feel about this if they're invites and not qualifiers, which it sounds like is whats happening
EDIT: Because mules are no longer rediculous on gold bases I don't think its necessarily bad that theres still gold bases
That would also be my guess. Not really a point to a partnership with KeSPA if MLG isn't going to bring over their players. I'm guessing one player from each team minus Ace.
Terrible, terrible map pool. I think this is the only area where your tournaments are way behind the competition. Really not looking forward watching these bad, old maps. It's embarrassing really.
I agree with changing the map pool. I honestly prefer Pool Play as opposed to Group Play Double-Elimination style but we'll have to see how the new format works out. Oh, and I'm glad that extended series is finally over with!
On July 28 2012 06:43 Champloo wrote: Why not just make it a 32 players (16 from open bracket, top 16 from Arena) groupstage (8 groups with 4 players) where the top 2 of each group advance and then play in a ro16 single elimination bracket.
Much simpler than the confusing shit you're doing with the championship bracket and much more exciting for the viewer.
Because then the open bracket becomes a complete mess and would take a long time to complete.
How would that change the length of the open bracket? Just play double elimination like they do now and stop when 16 players are left.
On July 28 2012 06:41 chipmonklord17 wrote: " 24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players."
Anyone else wondering about this? I'm thinking it might be 8 kespa guys (in fact I'd be willing to bet that it is) but still, not sure how I feel about this if they're invites and not qualifiers, which it sounds like is whats happening
EDIT: Because mules are no longer rediculous on gold bases I don't think its necessarily bad that theres still gold bases
That would also be my guess. Not really a point to a partnership with KeSPA if MLG isn't going to bring over their players. I'm guessing one player from each team minus Ace.
Eh I'm thinking more of "popular" players that can't qualify for anything with actual competition. You can fill in the blanks. Sundance and MLGAdam have said multiple times that they don't want to see nothing but Koreans because it does hurt them viewer wise.
On July 28 2012 06:43 Champloo wrote: Why not just make it a 32 players (16 from open bracket, top 16 from Arena) groupstage (8 groups with 4 players) where the top 2 of each group advance and then play in a ro16 single elimination bracket.
Much simpler than the confusing shit you're doing with the championship bracket and much more exciting for the viewer.
Because then the open bracket becomes a complete mess and would take a long time to complete.
How would that change the length of the open bracket? Just play double elimination like they do now and stop when 16 players are left.
Because once you lose once, you are eliminated from championship bracket. The loser's bracket then plays alongside the Championship bracket.
Well if the extended series ended MLG is a step closer to being better. Now they just need to update the map pool so that it doesn't have maps with gold minerals and outdated maps.
On July 28 2012 06:29 Roxor9999 wrote: Why do they have to make such a weird format when it can be so easily fixed.
Because they refuse to confess that the extendes series rule was a bad choice... The only problem I have with the new system is if one part of the bracket is way more stacked than the other, meaning the finals might be pretty lackluster but they mostly are anyways :/ Tal'Darim and Shakuras, really? I think Testbug should have a place then aswell Oh and I just noticed "MLG Metropolis - Island expansions removed" HAHA WHAT?!
On July 28 2012 06:43 Champloo wrote: Why not just make it a 32 players (16 from open bracket, top 16 from Arena) groupstage (8 groups with 4 players) where the top 2 of each group advance and then play in a ro16 single elimination bracket.
Much simpler than the confusing shit you're doing with the championship bracket and much more exciting for the viewer.
Because then the open bracket becomes a complete mess and would take a long time to complete.
How would that change the length of the open bracket? Just play double elimination like they do now and stop when 16 players are left.
Because once you lose once, you are eliminated from championship bracket.
I don't think you got my initial post, there should be no championship bracket. Just play the open bracket till 16 players are left. These 16 players then go into a normal round robin groupstage with the top 16 from Arena.
I like the group play very much, should make the earlier games much more exciting.
On the other hand, i agree with most of the people here that the map pool could use some modifications. Like gold minerals on antiga or shakuras in general. Also, don't like TDA in tournaments because of the positions and pvp on that map.
not to mention extended series..
Overall, mlgs are getting better and better, so no hard feelings
On July 28 2012 06:43 Champloo wrote: Why not just make it a 32 players (16 from open bracket, top 16 from Arena) groupstage (8 groups with 4 players) where the top 2 of each group advance and then play in a ro16 single elimination bracket.
Much simpler than the confusing shit you're doing with the championship bracket and much more exciting for the viewer.
Because then the open bracket becomes a complete mess and would take a long time to complete.
Out of curiousity. How would this make the open bracket a complete mess?
On July 28 2012 06:56 gasmeter wrote: Everything sounds great, apart from the map pool. I am getting a little tired of the same maps all the time as I'm sure a lot of people would agree.
not even that we're tired of seeing them, its the obvious fucking imbalances in them.
i dont understand how they can fuck this up so bad. just take gsl's maps or something. but tal darim altar? shakuras? omg....
On July 28 2012 06:56 Yorbon wrote: I like the group play very much, should make the earlier games much more exciting.
No, it's still the same meaningless group play. You can't get eliminated in group, you just get seeded lower in the championship bracket.
No idea who invents these systems for MLG, but they're horrible. You know why all the other tournaments use normal systems? Cause they work and are exciting to watch.
On July 28 2012 06:41 chipmonklord17 wrote: " 24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players."
Anyone else wondering about this? I'm thinking it might be 8 kespa guys (in fact I'd be willing to bet that it is) but still, not sure how I feel about this if they're invites and not qualifiers, which it sounds like is whats happening
EDIT: Because mules are no longer rediculous on gold bases I don't think its necessarily bad that theres still gold bases
That would also be my guess. Not really a point to a partnership with KeSPA if MLG isn't going to bring over their players. I'm guessing one player from each team minus Ace.
It could be somewhat merit-based, as in the best performing players from PL in SC2 or a mini-qualifier for only Kespa individuals. Sure, it's still giving them preference because they only compete with each other, but it's not too different from how Thorzain was invited to an Arena for winning a Dreamhack. No one had a problem with it there, right?
Edit: I don't think extended series is quite gone. Within the different stages there might be extended series (though since rematches can't happen in Open Bracket, only stages 2 and 3 might have them). I think that's the whole point with match history not carrying over from one stage into another. ie, if players A and B meet each other twice in Stage 2, then there will be extended series but if they met once in stage 2 and once in stage 3, then no extended series.
On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
Hmmm, seems like a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned, but this OP does a pretty lousy job of clearly communicating the new format. I hope the writer is not a paid employee.
On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
TBH since the mule change Gold bases shouldn't be that big a deal Just Antiga is an awful map that should not be used and the gold on that map is a perfect example of how not to do a gold base
On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
TBH since the mule change Gold bases shouldn't be that big a deal Just Antiga is an awful map that should not be used and the gold on that map is a perfect example of how not to do a gold base
Was more talking about it being akin to MLG introducing golds to all maps, likely at all third or fourth bases.
I think the format changes are pretty good, this is will be more exciting. Pool play was kinda lame, but it was alright. Eight players from open bracket is better than 4, we will see how it work out.
On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
TBH since the mule change Gold bases shouldn't be that big a deal Just Antiga is an awful map that should not be used and the gold on that map is a perfect example of how not to do a gold base
I was thinking that too, but there isn't a gold on the WCS version of Antiga if I recall correctly. That must say something, right?
On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
TBH since the mule change Gold bases shouldn't be that big a deal Just Antiga is an awful map that should not be used and the gold on that map is a perfect example of how not to do a gold base
Was more talking about it being akin to MLG introducing golds to all maps, likely at all third or fourth bases.
SSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH you'll give them ideas
Wow kinda puzzling, had to read twice to get the sytem figured out. Map pool issue again? I mean i was really, well let's call it "suprised", to put in a nice way , to see gold bases on Antiga and still Tal'darim in the pool. I mean really? Gold bases?!
P.S i don't really mind Shakuras, but I can see why Zergs complain with lategame split map situations.
Edit: and for god's sake don't replace a map with fckn Whirlwind, that map sucks ass!
On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
TBH since the mule change Gold bases shouldn't be that big a deal Just Antiga is an awful map that should not be used and the gold on that map is a perfect example of how not to do a gold base
I was thinking that too, but there isn't a gold on the WCS version of Antiga if I recall correctly. That must say something, right?
Yes that MLG is a perfect example of how not to do gold bases, a map maker will get them right eventually
Same as above. Good format changes, Map pool is terrible and needs a rework: -At the very least remove the gold bases on antiga. -Shakuras and Taldarim are outdated - add in Ohana instead of Taldarim, and a GSL map instead of Shakuras (Muspelheim is pretty good). -Also I dont see the point of removing Metropolis Islands. If anything they create interesting situations where players have to fight for them in the very-lategame when the other bases are mined out - which happends fairly often on this map.
Tal'darim has to go Antiga and Shakuras next... pls add ohana and some new maps.
Good job on the prize distribution. Also 13th gets some money, thats a lot better. Tournament system seems to be an improvement too. i am not sure i understand it in detail so.
Edit: i am really interested if MLG reads all this feedback about the maps. I guess we will see it soon.
I really don't think anyone, anywhere will be happy with this map pool as it currently stands.To point out the individual flaws
-The maps are old. We've seen them a billion times. I would have as much fun watching reruns of Friends as I would watching another PvT on Antiga Shipyard (aka a 4/10 on my personal entertainment value scale - not soul-destroyingly boring, but chances are I will find something better to do.) -Gold minerals are just not part of the game anymore. The community has discovered that they just don't play well & add many balance issues. -Antiga has exploits all over it and the second someone plays a match and all they do is abuse these things, it will be egg all over your face. Regardless of how viable some of the exploits are in general. -Removing expansions from maps or otherwise manipulating it in any way, shape or form is unethical and a poor decision overall. It is the map creator's decision, end of story. (MLG has acknowledged this and I do not believe it will happen again). -PvP on Tal'Darim Altar is a hellish nightmare for the players -The maps are really, really old. We've seen them over a billion times.
What I think MLG is overlooking is the consequences of a map pool like this. I'm going to break down one of the philosophies I have about Starcraft here, to put things into perspective.
StarCraft is a beautiful game. It is a game of mechanical skill, strategy, planning, adaptation and execution. The things that make it beautiful are a dime a dozen - from the simple concept of "more $ = more guys", to the brilliance of things like a two-base timing attack. In a perfect world, Starcraft would have only two overarching variables: The players, and the maps. Balance changes wouldn't be a concern and we'd be functionally playing the same game. The only thing that changes are the players, and the maps that they play on. (Elements like the metagame in general I consider sub-variables of these two things).
Maps serve a unique purpose towards the overall goal of competition (which is to discover who is the best at whatever they are competing over, or best deserving of a given prize.) Maps push the limit of a player's skill set, some players excel at macro and long, drawn out games, whereas others may be more of the rushdown type. A diverse map pool will give each and every player the opportunity to show their respective skills and help to ultimately decide the victor. Think of a game of poker - A strong player can make virtually any hand work for them, if they choose to.
With a relatively stagnant map pool such as this one, that aspect of the variables of competition are severely diminished. Imagine a poker game where every game the players had the same five or six different hands every single time. The excitement is lost in all but the most severe situations - map pools are much the same. A stagnant map pool will undervalue interesting and innovative play by blending it in with the rest, causing only the rarest of moments to really stick out.
A strong map pool that rotates on a relatively high frequency (not so high that players cannot practice the maps at all) will give you the best of both worlds - innovative and interesting play, and those mind-boggling astonishing moments that truly make SC2 the spectacular game that it is - for both players & spectators.In turn, the players & spectators will have positive things to say about your event overall and this will increase the value of your product.
I just don't get it man. MLG wants the most balanced maps they can find, but they're way too slow on the ball. MLG, this is me telling you: You can have your cake and eat it too. Other leagues do it. Why not you?
24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
I'm interested about this. Who are these eight players, and how will they qualify? KeSPA pros, perhaps? Everyone else has had a perfectly legitimate ability to qualify on their own merits. If the invites are along the lines of MC, NesTea, MVP, and IdrA, then I'm going to flip a table.
Also, ffs fix the map pool. Literally nobody cares about changing the pool mid-season. Every player knows the maps that you would be switching to, and in fact, nobody plays on some of the maps you've kept in. I don't know if this is about pride or ignorance, or what, but it's time to stop pretending like MLG is the only tour out there, and fix your map pool to remove Shakuras and Tal'Darim, and take the golds out of Antiga.
24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
I'm interested about this. Who are these eight players, and how will they qualify? KeSPA pros, perhaps? Everyone else has had a perfectly legitimate ability to qualify on their own merits. If the invites are along the lines of MC, NesTea, MVP, and IdrA, then I'm going to flip a table.
Also, ffs fix the map pool. Literally nobody cares about changing the pool mid-season. Every player knows the maps that you would be switching to, and in fact, nobody plays on some of the maps you've kept in. I don't know if this is about pride or ignorance, or what, but it's time to stop pretending like MLG is the only tour out there, and fix your map pool to remove Shakuras and Tal'Darim, and take the golds out of Antiga.
I'd really like to know where this mentality as a whole came from. NASL, IPL, and MLG all have it. It's the silliest thing.
The fact that they stuffed the WCS NA Finals into this event is still ridiculously stupid. Just because they fixed the open bracket so there is no interference is no excuse to have both events concurrently. It puts the NA players who qualified at a serious disadvantage for both events as they are forced into playing games constantly until the late evening / very early morning. This shit shouldn't be tolerated.
This is actually a decent improvement but it's hard to understand why at first, I had to look at it closely.
Friday is better since there's only 2 games per group broadcast instead of 6, which allows more open bracket games to be casted.
Saturday is better since a double elimination group allows more drama than round robin and is easier to follow, plus winning your group is so important in MLGs and this way each group will have a hopefully broadcasted final.
Sunday is better since you keep the possibility of a Leenock-esque loser's bracket run while having an actual final with no advantage to one player, and the group winners are still rewarded. Also spreading out the OLB players instead of having them kill each other off is nice.
The biggest problems are the map pool and the fact that invites are coming back.
I'm confused at the last stage when it's 24 players + 8 open bracket winners. Does this mean now that if you don't make it to pool play from the open bracket, your tournament is now done? Previously, it was possible although unlikely to still win MLG from the open bracket without making it into pool play but by going through the loser's bracket.
On July 28 2012 07:35 Canucklehead wrote: I'm confused at the last stage when it's 24 players + 8 open bracket winners. Does this mean now that if you don't make it to pool play from the open bracket, your tournament is now done? Previously, it was possible although unlikely to still win MLG from the open bracket without making it into pool play but by going through the loser's bracket.
No it's actually easier to come from the open loser's bracket and win now.
So to give MLG a helping hand I decided to create a good map pool (by asking prodiG on twitter) and here it is
Cloud Kingdom Ohana Daybreak Khaydaria Whirlwind
Thats a small compact map pool only 2 non ladder maps one is used by GSL so is likely to become more common anyway and you only have one sort of new map which is still getting played by top Korean pro's
On July 28 2012 07:37 MarcH wrote: So to give MLG a helping hand I decided to create a good map pool (by asking prodiG on twitter) and here it is
Cloud Kingdom Ohana Daybreak Khaydaria Whirlwind
Thats a small compact map pool only 2 non ladder maps one is used by GSL so is likely to become more common anyway and you only have one sort of new map which is still getting played by top Korean pro's
It's like you understand my fairly simple map pool logic perfectly! <3
Shakuras and Tal'Darim, you must be joking me... it's time to phase them out.
I like the tournament structure change, like how it worked in the Spring Arena. Will be a nightmare for the organizers I think, but the MLG people all have a ton of experience so they should adjust to it pretty well.
On July 28 2012 07:35 Canucklehead wrote: I'm confused at the last stage when it's 24 players + 8 open bracket winners. Does this mean now that if you don't make it to pool play from the open bracket, your tournament is now done? Previously, it was possible although unlikely to still win MLG from the open bracket without making it into pool play but by going through the loser's bracket.
No it's actually easier to come from the open loser's bracket and win now.
Notice how the open loser's players are spread out instead of facing each other in the first round. Look to the far right.
Ah ok, looking at the 2 sample brackets now, 7th/8th from from the 4 groups in stage 2 drop to loser's r1 in champ bracket and will play 8 losers from the open bracket.
Please god do not let the 8 players to be named the kespa guys!!! Please make them my favorite players like DRG, MC, MKP that have a chance to win the whole thing but couldnt make summer arena. I dont want to see the Kespa players get schmanged. If it is Kespa, i would predict that 7 out of 8 would go 0-2 in their series and the other guy would win one series and then lose two series.
MLG "So yeah... We wanted to make sure to have the worst possible map pool along with subtle imbalances to really have an entertaining extended series finals, we're going to start the finals off 2-0 and then follow with Antiga TvZ gold middle then move to Tal darim to make sure it's the worst finals you've EVER seen, what can we say we love esports"
Getting these brackets on LP is gonna be a pain... ;_;
Wait I don't get it. Where did 6th place go? I didn't notice that at first and assumed they just meant 7th/8th in loser's r1 champ bracket instead of 2 7th.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. Except, I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had OSL, GSL, GSTL which I wouldnt call dodging the competition if they are playing Round of 4 GSL and OSL (which is probably the most important tournament for some that hteyve ever played in.)
To be honest if arena was on another weekend and those aforementioned players could have attended, we may even have a different winner (no disrespect to a great player in TaeJa)
NOTE on the special invites, it has been said over and over again why they invite certain players and it is for the fanbase... The KESPA players are like the new thing, people want to see them compete (even if they flunk out hard) it will draw viewership to see Jaedong playing MVP (as an example) it also applies for foreigner players as well with the GSL, the reason GSL invites foreigner players is so Europeans/North Americans will tune in late at night or buy subscription to see there favorite players play, could you imagine players like Thorzain or Huk making it through Code B into Code A and then into Code S? They require the invites, you can argue that they could do it on there own (and maybe you're right) but its extremely doubtful.
So out of everything, strictly marketing special invites are going to always be around, as they should be, because some players are more in demand than others and sadly skill isn't everything, fan base and viewership are big reasons events even happen.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Get rid of the 8 invites, put them into the open bracket instead (if you must, seed them into round 4, which puts them a round below the losing side of Arena). It's utterly unfair that some people will be invited and be ranked higher than people who qualified for Arena, even if those people lost.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Im sure they would have all gone to Arena if they didnt have other tournametns they already planned on attending. I dont think invites are good, i do think that giving the 8 seeds to players like DRG, MKP, Inori, Polt, Leenock and others would be better than giving it to kespa that would just lose.
On July 28 2012 08:13 NeMeSiS3 wrote: NOTE on the special invites, it has been said over and over again why they invite certain players and it is for the fanbase... The KESPA players are like the new thing, people want to see them compete (even if they flunk out hard) it will draw viewership to see Jaedong playing MVP (as an example) it also applies for foreigner players as well with the GSL, the reason GSL invites foreigner players is so Europeans/North Americans will tune in late at night or buy subscription to see there favorite players play, could you imagine players like Thorzain or Huk making it through Code B into Code A and then into Code S? They require the invites, you can argue that they could do it on there own (and maybe you're right) but its extremely doubtful.
So out of everything, strictly marketing special invites are going to always be around, as they should be, because some players are more in demand than others and sadly skill isn't everything, fan base and viewership are big reasons events even happen.
The difference between the two examples you listed is that there are limiting factors (read: money) that make it very hard to participate in the qualifiers for the GSL.
The MLG Arena qualifiers don't have such a limit: they are online so the only thing they require is time and possibly the 10$ (if I remember correctly) for the open tournament. To anyone playing at a professional level a 10$ entry fee should not be an issue.
The MLG Arena itself also doesn't have a financial limit: travel and hotel is fully covered. The only "problem" is that it takes time, but then again every tournament requires time.
I can not see a reason behind seeding when your tournament (assuming we're talking about open or qualifier based tournaments) is set up in such a way that there are limiting factors that are special to your tournament. Time is not such a factor as everything takes time.
Is this a joke?? Why in gods name do you do MLG arena if you just gonna shit on the players who worked hard to deserve those spots?. Giving invites to people who dont deserve to be there but somehow are very popular in the scene is a discrace to the competitive scene.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Im sure they would have all gone to Arena if they didnt have other tournametns they already planned on attending. I dont think invites are good, i do think that giving the 8 seeds to players like DRG, MKP, Inori, Polt, Leenock and others would be better than giving it to kespa that would just lose.
Regardless of whether they would have come themselves, we are talking about mentally competent adults making a decision. A decision that (like every other one) has it's pros and it's cons. Why should tournament organisers roll over on teams after they made a well thought out decision?
Remember that Slayers decided to still send Squirtle and Puzzle the NASL even though they still had to play GSTL at the same time. Slayers weighed the pros and cons and decided to send their players overseas.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
MLG has always been more about show than sports. But imo its ok to have one competition that is like that, as long as its not the only one. Its a typcal American event.
On July 28 2012 07:37 MarcH wrote: So to give MLG a helping hand I decided to create a good map pool (by asking prodiG on twitter) and here it is
Cloud Kingdom Ohana Daybreak Khaydaria Whirlwind
Thats a small compact map pool only 2 non ladder maps one is used by GSL so is likely to become more common anyway and you only have one sort of new map which is still getting played by top Korean pro's
On July 28 2012 06:24 FairForever wrote: Stage 2) Is there extended series (assuming it is possible for the two players to play more than once in stage 2)
Stage 3) Is this double elimination? This could still lead to extended series, no?
I personally think they've found the happy medium. The extended series still exists but your performance against a certain player on day 1 won't carry over to day 3 and the final is a straight up bo7. This is exactly how I've always wanted MLG to be, I'm fine with the extended series so long as it means something, before you could lose from jet lag on day 1 and then be at a 2-0 disadantage in the grand finals, 2 days later.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
MLG has always been more about show than sports. But imo its ok to have one competion that is like that, as long as its not the only one. Its a typcal American event.
Oh, from a business point of view it would be an excellent decision to invite some big names that your audience will like. The second you decide to mix random invites in with seeding and qualifiers then you however turn your event from a genuine tournament into a business based venture.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
MLG has always been more about show than sports. But imo its ok to have one competion that is like that, as long as its not the only one. Its a typcal American event.
Oh, from a business point of view it would be an excellent decision to invite some big names that your audience will like. The second you decide to mix random invites in with seeding and qualifiers then you however turn your event from a genuine tournament into a business based venture.
And when that happend starcraft 2 as a sport is pretty much dead
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
MLG has always been more about show than sports. But imo its ok to have one competion that is like that, as long as its not the only one. Its a typcal American event.
Oh, from a business point of view it would be an excellent decision to invite some big names that your audience will like. The second you decide to mix random invites in with seeding and qualifiers then you however turn your event from a genuine tournament into a business based venture.
It is a business based venture. Still not as bad as NFL and the other big American sports, where you buy yourself into the competition.
On July 28 2012 07:37 MarcH wrote: So to give MLG a helping hand I decided to create a good map pool (by asking prodiG on twitter) and here it is
Cloud Kingdom Ohana Daybreak Khaydaria Whirlwind
Thats a small compact map pool only 2 non ladder maps one is used by GSL so is likely to become more common anyway and you only have one sort of new map which is still getting played by top Korean pro's
That would be one sick map pool
And it took all of 2 minutes to get it by asking someone smart on twitter. I mean the only map I may not have put in personally is Whirlwind but it would have been replaced with another newer GSL/GSTL map.
The real issue for me is that even someone like me who is new to The Starcraft community thanks to SC2 can look at BW and earlier SC2 tournaments and realize how big of a role maps play in this game and look at the current maps and decide what maps are good and which aren't to an ok standard but MLG seem incapable of doing this right now which is an issue.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
On July 28 2012 07:37 MarcH wrote: So to give MLG a helping hand I decided to create a good map pool (by asking prodiG on twitter) and here it is
Cloud Kingdom Ohana Daybreak Khaydaria Whirlwind
Thats a small compact map pool only 2 non ladder maps one is used by GSL so is likely to become more common anyway and you only have one sort of new map which is still getting played by top Korean pro's
Regarding the map pool. Shakuras is old and I rarely ever see good games on it. TDA is imbalanced and we see many six pools on this map. Its not that they are completely terrible, its just that there are far better maps that you could choose from. Sundance wanted stats, its not all about the win rates, it should be about seeing good games too.
1st: Map pool. No point talking about it, everyone who pays attention at all to SC2 can see its outdated and terrible.
2nd: Well, you got rid of extended series rule, kinda partially. The 3 stages mean that your games in groups don't matter on championship sunday, which is good, cause there was literally zero reason for that to happen, and was actually the worst fucking rule in any tournaments history (bar your old one about the players ability to deny an opponent access to one unit if they break a rule).
But its still there until you say othewise, and so will have an affect on stage 2 and 3. You've already got a gimmick so it doesn't affect the finals, why not just get rid of it?
3rd:
eight players that will be announced later
This is really cryptic, but I don't like what it is implying. Kespa? They don't deserve the spot, not yet, not when they've had access to the standard qualifiers that everyone else, they should earn it like everyone else. And if it is Kespa, then it should be by qualification, not just on individual teams whims.
4th: Only 1/4 of the 2nd stage is from the open qualifiers... You should have gone the other direction, more from open qualifiers, not less.
And the sad thing is, this is actually an improvement over MLG's previous system. -_- Damn. I actually made myself sad writing that.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
DRG Won the last championship
Yes and he didnt qualify for the next one. Thats how sport works. Matter infact I take it as a personal insult that MLG try to change a competitive sport into a circus. Hell whats next?. Should we just do a public poll on which players who should go. So we can get the most popular players that will draw most viewers?
Its a discrace MLG should be ashamed. They should apologies to all the players at the last MLG arena who worked there ass off but coulnt qualify. Talk about screwing them over.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
DRG Won the last championship
Yes and he didnt qualify for the next one. Thats how sport works. Matter infact I take it as a personal insult that MLG try to change a competitive sport into a circus. Hell whats next?. Should we just do a public poll on which players who should go. So we can get the most popular players that will draw most viewers?
Its a discrace MLG should be ashamed. They should apologies to all the players at the last MLG arena who worked there ass off but coulnt qualify. Talk about screwing them over.
I think the 8 invitees into group play must be either KeSPA players or foreigners. The former would be because of MLG's partnership with KeSPA (and I think that's the most likely scenario), and the latter would be because of this comment from Sundance in his recent interview with Slasher:
"My number one complaint is that as the event goes on, there are so many people that are knocked out, nearly all of those being the fan favorites from the different regions. The North American, European players struggle to get past a certain point. Ilyes "Stephano" Satouri, Chris "Huk" Loranger, and a few others are exceptions to that, but it can't just be a rotisserie of Korean players being showcased every time out. That's a knock against not the format necessarily, but the structure of the year."
Personally I'm fine with Shakuras and Tal'Darim being kept, I guess that's a bit of nostalgia in me. But just ditch the extended series rule and it's perfect imo.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
DRG Won the last championship
Yes and he didnt qualify for the next one. Thats how sport works. Matter infact I take it as a personal insult that MLG try to change a competitive sport into a circus. Hell whats next?. Should we just do a public poll on which players who should go. So we can get the most popular players that will draw most viewers?
Its a discrace MLG should be ashamed. They should apologies to all the players at the last MLG arena who worked there ass off but coulnt qualify. Talk about screwing them over.
Well he qualified for Arena but couldnt go....
Thats his problem. The fact is he didnt qualify for the next MLG. You cant make special cases to popular players just becuase they will draw viewers! It undermine the hole competition.
And I swear to god if i see the same old popular players who allways get invited becuase they are simply not good enough anymore to qualify im gonna go abeshit!
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
DRG Won the last championship
Yes and he didnt qualify for the next one. Thats how sport works. Matter infact I take it as a personal insult that MLG try to change a competitive sport into a circus. Hell whats next?. Should we just do a public poll on which players who should go. So we can get the most popular players that will draw most viewers?
Its a discrace MLG should be ashamed. They should apologies to all the players at the last MLG arena who worked there ass off but coulnt qualify. Talk about screwing them over.
Didn't MarineKing do that on a MLG last year when he basically begged reddit to donate so he can fly over to compete (I believe at this time PRIME was losing most of it's big sponsors and the team was on the verge of collapse)?
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
DRG Won the last championship
Yes and he didnt qualify for the next one. Thats how sport works. Matter infact I take it as a personal insult that MLG try to change a competitive sport into a circus. Hell whats next?. Should we just do a public poll on which players who should go. So we can get the most popular players that will draw most viewers?
Its a discrace MLG should be ashamed. They should apologies to all the players at the last MLG arena who worked there ass off but coulnt qualify. Talk about screwing them over.
Well he qualified for Arena but couldnt go....
Thats his problem. The fact is he didnt qualify for the next MLG. You cant make special cases to popular players just becuase they will draw viewers! It undermine the hole competition.
Well wether its players that couldnt attend or kespa, they are making special cases like it or not.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
DRG Won the last championship
Yes and he didnt qualify for the next one. Thats how sport works. Matter infact I take it as a personal insult that MLG try to change a competitive sport into a circus. Hell whats next?. Should we just do a public poll on which players who should go. So we can get the most popular players that will draw most viewers?
Its a discrace MLG should be ashamed. They should apologies to all the players at the last MLG arena who worked there ass off but coulnt qualify. Talk about screwing them over.
Well he qualified for Arena but couldnt go....
Thats his problem. The fact is he didnt qualify for the next MLG. You cant make special cases to popular players just becuase they will draw viewers! It undermine the hole competition.
Well wether its players that couldnt attend or kespa, they are making special cases like it or not.
Well then we as a community should boycot MLG unless ofcourse we wanna see starcraft 2 as a circus rather then a sport. Becuase this is it. A line have to be drawn and right now the community can do something.
And I simply cant belive people who like starcraft as a competitive sport actually defends this. Its mindblowing!
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
DRG Won the last championship
Yes and he didnt qualify for the next one. Thats how sport works. Matter infact I take it as a personal insult that MLG try to change a competitive sport into a circus. Hell whats next?. Should we just do a public poll on which players who should go. So we can get the most popular players that will draw most viewers?
Its a discrace MLG should be ashamed. They should apologies to all the players at the last MLG arena who worked there ass off but coulnt qualify. Talk about screwing them over.
Why do people keep saying this like it's actually true? There's plenty of sports that uses tournament formats that have invites in form of aces and such to accomodate home favorites or players that for some reason haven't been able to qualify (tennis being one of the most obvious ones). It's not ruining those sports and it will not ruin sc2.
On July 28 2012 08:06 Wroshe wrote: Honestly get rid of the 8 special invite spots.
After seeing the WCS Korea qualifiers it's clear that the kespa players currently are not on the level of the competition yet so they shouldn't be given those spots.
Giving the spots to players that already have had the chance to qualify but were not capable of doing so would be even worse and shows that the only ground for decision is the commercial profitability but that legitimacy of the competition is not a factor.
Even people that qualified for the arena but chose not to attend should not be given those spots. Whatever the reason: you should not get the spots that are earned by doing well in the arena as a result of dodging the competition.
My thoughts too. I am hoping so much that they invite DRG, MC, MKP, Symbol and others who honestly all probably wouldve made T16 at arena but had prior obligations.
Honestly I feel they shouldn't even do that. When the players that declined their arena spot (those are DRG, MarineKing, Inori, Polt and Leenock; only those qualified and declined) they damn well knew what they were giving up: the prize money from the arena and the possible seed for the MLG Championship.
Regardless of whether they were likely to qualify or not I feel it is a very bad idea to start rewarding people that deliberatly decide to not play the "qualifier" (read: arena) by giving them what they could have earned if they played that qualifier.
Shall we also provide TSL4 spots to players that decided to not play the qualifier because they wanted another tournament more?
Champions should ALWAYS defend. No matter what.
The most recent champion is TaeJa, he will attend.
MarineKing decided that he did not want to attend the MLG arena and as a result he should deal with the consequences of that decision.
DRG Won the last championship
Yes and he didnt qualify for the next one. Thats how sport works. Matter infact I take it as a personal insult that MLG try to change a competitive sport into a circus. Hell whats next?. Should we just do a public poll on which players who should go. So we can get the most popular players that will draw most viewers?
Its a discrace MLG should be ashamed. They should apologies to all the players at the last MLG arena who worked there ass off but coulnt qualify. Talk about screwing them over.
Why do people keep saying this like it's actually true? There's plenty of sports that uses tournament formats that have invites in form of aces and such to accomodate home favorites or players that for some reason haven't been able to qualify. It's not ruining those sports and it will not ruin sc2.
Which serious sport skips qualification events and just hand out invites to players who are popular? Plz tell me I would really love to know that. Its a joke and again that people actually defending this is really disturbing
If it is the Kespa players it really wont matter, they will just lose. Its like the host country for the World Cup, will South Africa win the world cup? no they wont, but its good for fans just like kespa players. With that said, I hope the invites go to GSL players that couldnt make arena.
looks like Lee, Adam, JP, and Dustin Browder also voted.
Dustin voted so so he miss the rocks on Shakuras.
Gotta love those rocks! :D
How much did Sundance's twitter posts make your blood boil?
not enough to kill him. Someone should just tweet shak/antiga TLPD Tal Darim is statistically balance but provides way too much all ins/cheese and scrappy PvP
looks like Lee, Adam, JP, and Dustin Browder also voted.
Dustin voted so so he miss the rocks on Shakuras.
Gotta love those rocks! :D
How much did Sundance's twitter posts make your blood boil?
Not at all, map pool is not his fault or his call. He is likely just trying to figure out why people are mad. Map pool is sort of below Sundance's job responsibilities, which is why it's cool he's even getting involved.
Really like the new format changes, hopefully top tier players will have an easier time making it through to the end stages rather than getting cheesed out fairly early on. The maps are meh, definitely could be worse but w/e and extended series still really needs to go
Interesting changes... I hope a good stable format will be found eventually so that it need not be changed every other MLG tournament. Wouldn't be surprised either if those unnamed 8 players will be KeSPA players.
On July 28 2012 06:37 Noocta wrote: In case MLG is clueless :
- Goldminerals on Antiga need to go ( perhaps the map too ) - Shakuras and Taldarim are too old. - Get Ohana in. - Stop modifying maps, there's a reason mapmakers make them like they are. ( metropolis island )
Are there really still golds on antiga? I thought everyone had fixed them to blues a long long time ago.
Gold were only a problem because mules mined more on them. But blizzard patched it but pretty much every tournament turned them to normal mineral patches. (Except MLG of course)
Sundance has been asking for statistical evidence on twitter for why the community doesn't like these maps, go tweet at him to try to get changes made instead of complaining on here where he wont see it.
On July 28 2012 07:15 Luisa_2 wrote: Wow kinda puzzling, had to read twice to get the sytem figured out. Map pool issue again? I mean i was really, well let's call it "suprised", to put in a nice way , to see gold bases on Antiga and still Tal'darim in the pool. I mean really? Gold bases?!
P.S i don't really mind Shakuras, but I can see why Zergs complain with lategame split map situations.
Edit: and for god's sake don't replace a map with fckn Whirlwind, that map sucks ass!
PvZ on Shakuras is just terrible. No really good spot to take a 3rd so it pretty much leads into an automatic 2 base all in. Because the 3rd infront of the main is too open and the other 3rd that's the natural to another empty main ends up being too far to defend properly. So its just not Zerg to complain, sucks when your toss and you get stuck PvZ and either have to go really late game split map or 2 base all in
On July 28 2012 06:41 chipmonklord17 wrote: " 24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players."
Anyone else wondering about this? I'm thinking it might be 8 kespa guys (in fact I'd be willing to bet that it is) but still, not sure how I feel about this if they're invites and not qualifiers, which it sounds like is whats happening
EDIT: Because mules are no longer rediculous on gold bases I don't think its necessarily bad that theres still gold bases
I doubt the KeSPA players will be invited because their skill level is still below that of most players, and people want to see the highest level of play which very few KeSPA players have yet to attain. My guess is just the popular/non-Arena players like Polt or DRG who weren't able to qualify, but people would see them any day.
Do we not like these maps just purely because we are bored of seeing them?
If you look at the stats that Playhem released, TDA and Shakura's are actually the most balanced maps right now. Golds I agree are a bad idea, holding the middle on Antiga is already powerful enough.
On July 28 2012 08:01 MarcH wrote: I suppose the fact Sundance is looking into this is a positive of sorts
But he wants "proven data" on why the map pool sucks. Screw needing data every single pro that has a twitter has tweeting him about having TDA and Shakura's in the map pool. No other tournament uses those terrible maps for the simple fact they'll just keep getting veto'd and are just useless if they're veto'd by pretty much everyone.
Daybreak TvZ, Entombed ZvT, Metropolis TvZ, Shakuras PvT are stats that really stand out to me. From a naive perspective, these stats suggest to me that Metropolis and Shakuras should really be replaced. Metropolis is a huge macro map, so I don't really know a good replacement, but Shakuras seems to me like a rush map. I feel like Ohana should seriously be considered.
This map pool is such a disappointment. I'm beginning to feel as if MLG cares more about map statistics than the actual gameplay and spectating value maps bring to the scene. Shakuras Plateau, Tal’darim Altar, and Antiga Shipyard desperately need to go. Hell, even Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak have seen enough stage time to be worthy of a replacement. Maps are important MLG, so for the love of the fans, fix your map pool.
Mixed feelings about this. It's really punishing players who are coming from the Open Bracket .. If you drop 2 games in the Group play you're gonna start from a really poor position in the Championship bracket whereas if you dropped 2 games in Pool play you could win the other 3 and start decently depending how the other group results reflected. The easy counter-argument to this is that they should of attended the arena to get straight into Group play but WCS Korea prelims we're on at same time.
On July 28 2012 10:16 Mackus wrote: Mixed feelings about this. It's really punishing players who are coming from the Open Bracket .. If you drop 2 games in the Group play you're gonna start from a really poor position in the Championship bracket whereas if you dropped 2 games in Pool play you could win the other 3 and start decently depending how the other group results reflected. The easy counter-argument to this is that they should of attended the arena to get straight into Group play but WCS Korea prelims we're on at same time.
Another argument could be that other people's performance doesn't influence your position/situation, ie there's no need to rely on map score or anything.
Edit: A good example is how players who went 2-1 in HSC4 were eliminated even though the players that advanced went 2-1 as well, because of map score.
On July 28 2012 10:14 Timetwister22 wrote: This map pool is such a disappointment. I'm beginning to feel as if MLG cares more about map statistics than the actual gameplay and spectating value maps bring to the scene. Shakuras Plateau, Tal’darim Altar, and Antiga Shipyard desperately need to go. Hell, even Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak have seen enough stage time to be worthy of a replacement. Maps are important MLG, so for the love of the fans, fix your map pool.
Only reason that Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak get alot of "stage time" is because the players dont seem to veto those maps because they have their own favoured MU and decide to pick it if someone doesnt veto it.
I hate this format. I actually enjoyed pool play stages cos it gives you a chance to follow a player and give something to measure their performance between the days. Whereas with big double elims its just like "Oh he lost see you next time" whenever a player does poorly.
On July 28 2012 10:20 T0fuuu wrote: I hate this format. I actually enjoyed pool play stages cos it gives you a chance to follow a player and give something to measure their performance between the days. Whereas with big double elims its just like "Oh he lost see you next time" whenever a player does poorly.
If double elim for you is "Oh he lost see you next time", then what is single elim?
On July 28 2012 10:16 Mackus wrote: Mixed feelings about this. It's really punishing players who are coming from the Open Bracket .. If you drop 2 games in the Group play you're gonna start from a really poor position in the Championship bracket whereas if you dropped 2 games in Pool play you could win the other 3 and start decently depending how the other group results reflected. The easy counter-argument to this is that they should of attended the arena to get straight into Group play but WCS Korea prelims we're on at same time.
Another argument could be that other people's performance doesn't influence your position/situation, ie there's no need to rely on map score or anything.
Edit: A good example is how players who went 2-1 in HSC4 were eliminated even though the players that advanced went 2-1 as well, because of map score.
I see where you're coming from and I slightly agree but Map score isn't as significant as your example. Losing on map score just means you start further down the ladder in the bracket whereas HSC4 it meant elimination from the tournament .. The only thing I didn't agree with in Pool play is even you are 0-5 you were still in the Championship Bracket no matter how shit you were.
8 players to be announed later = Kespa? Please say yes, some of them are starting to get pretty good!
On the map pool: MLG Antiga Shipyard - This needs to go, IMO. It's not the worst map, but it's not good either. MLG ESV Cloud Kingdom - Fantastic map, might not be the newest, but great map. MLG Daybreak - Probably the best map around, games always seem to be great. MLG Entombed Valley - Decent enough map, but would like to see it replaced with something else (Ohana is good) MLG Metropolis - Haven't played enough on this map to form a real opinion, but TvZ seems tough MLG Shakuras Plateau - Get rid! This map is terrible. Although it does make mech work fairly well in TvP and TvZ (but probably not at the pro level) MLG Tal’darim Altar - And the worst map award goes to...THIS ONE. Oh god get rid of it immediatley. Straight away. IS IT STILL IN THE MAP POOL?! Remove it! Are you not listening to me or something!? This map is HORRIBLE. PvP is ruined by this map, ZvP is ruined (for both races), TvZ is crap...the list goes on. This is a terrible map, not saying it's imbalanced, it just invites shit games.
On July 28 2012 10:20 T0fuuu wrote: I hate this format. I actually enjoyed pool play stages cos it gives you a chance to follow a player and give something to measure their performance between the days. Whereas with big double elims its just like "Oh he lost see you next time" whenever a player does poorly.
If double elim for you is "Oh he lost see you next time", then what is single elim?
Well we dont really see many bottom bracket games on MLG streams. So it really is "see you next time".
Friend of mine brought up a funny but interesting point. Here is MLG who touts how important their Extended Series rule is and how pivotal it is in determining the "best" player in any given match up in their tournament. Yet here is MLG doing absolutely everything in it's power to GUARANTEE that an Extended Series Grand Finals never occurs. Three stages and double elimination bracket upon double elimination bracket to make sure that the Grand Finals aren't played by two players who previously met where the Extended Series score can carry over.
Basically they know about their dysfunctional rule but, don't want to remove it for whatever reason. MLG man the fuck up and remove the rule already. Because if you feel like your Grand Finals shouldn't be played with your "unique" rule then no match in the entire tournament should.
Group Play has replaced Pool Play as the second stage of the Event, and there are some major differences between the two: Group Play is made up of four separate double elimination brackets.
32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group.
24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
On July 28 2012 11:28 StarStruck wrote: I love how the boys from MLG make things seem more complicated than they really are.
You could have just said. No more extended series and everyone would yell HOORAY.
It shouldn't take that long to explain the format. Honestly.
That and your map pool... I know you guys like editing old maps and such, but really there are guys more qualified for the job.
Extended series can still happen if players rematch in the same stage of the tournament. For example, if the winner of Group D loses to the winner of Group A in the Championship Winners Bracket R1, but then wins against whichever opponent in the Losers Bracket, then A & D would rematch in the Championship Semifinals in an extended series.
Also, if the Losers Bracket player wins the initial Bo3 in a non-rematch Group Play Final or Championship Semifinal, then it becomes an extended Bo7. That part of the rules hasn't really changed.
Gold on Antiga? Why? I haven't seen any tournament that still has gold on that map, let alone a fairly major one like mlg. As a Terran I do love me some Antiga, but please no gold
On July 28 2012 11:24 Hrrrrm wrote: Friend of mine brought up a funny but interesting point. Here is MLG who touts how important their Extended Series rule is and how pivotal it is in determining the "best" player in any given match up in their tournament. Yet here is MLG doing absolutely everything in it's power to GUARANTEE that an Extended Series Grand Finals never occurs. Three stages and double elimination bracket upon double elimination bracket to make sure that the Grand Finals aren't played by two players who previously met where the Extended Series score can carry over.
Basically they know about their dysfunctional rule but, don't want to remove it for whatever reason. MLG man the fuck up and remove the rule already. Because if you feel like your Grand Finals shouldn't be played with your "unique" rule then no match in the entire tournament should.
The split bracket is more of an answer to the typical anticlimactic finals that pretty much any double-elimination bracket tends to produce. Yes, extended series finals are bad, but it's not like true DE finals are necessarily much better for entertainment value (the single Final series starting at 0-0 trumps both). The split would have happened at some point even if they never introduced extended series. (Somebody at MLG might be a fan of NCAA baseball, as they've been using a similar split DE format for the College World Series since 1988, when they wanted to make their final more television-friendly.)
Why people complain about the map pool ? Personally, I'm getting tired of 20 minutes no rush TvZ's on Whirlwind. Some 2rax on Shakuras will make for more diverse games at least.
The only map I don't like is Metropolis, cuz this map seems unbalanced in a bad boring way.
Its a step in the right direction. Although some of these posts seems to be of the all-or-nothing opinion. If MLG doesn't do it all perfectly it is a failure. Many improvements can still be done but I appreciate they are moving in the right direction.
On July 28 2012 13:05 bLecK wrote: Extended series, dear god let it be gone...
I hate to quote without new content but there is nothing more to say. EVERYBODY FUCKING HATES EXTENDED SERIES. Get it away. Totally. At all stages. Kill it with fire.
Well, it seems like a good structure if not overly confusing and convoluted.
Obviously I have to echo the main points of the community too: 1) extended series is still the worst idea any tournament has ever come up with and 2) the map pool is so outdated and bad that MLG should be ashamed of themselves.
On July 28 2012 12:11 MangoSnap wrote: Gold on Antiga? Why? I haven't seen any tournament that still has gold on that map, let alone a fairly major one like mlg. As a Terran I do love me some Antiga, but please no gold
To be fair, the reason why Gold was removed was because it was too strong in conjunction with MULES. Since the tides of balance have shifted a bit, it might not actually be all that bad to add Gold Minerals back in. However, I think that Antiga Shipyard is probably one of the best maps for Terran, so while it is going to make beating Terran harder on that one map, they still will struggle on the other maps. Finding a way to add Gold Minerals to a map that Terrans really struggle with might actually be a decent idea.
Format looks nice, looks like we will be getting more games this this way. I'm not anti extended series it grew on me, and I can understand the reasoning more for it now. Excited for this event!
Group Play has replaced Pool Play as the second stage of the Event, and there are some major differences between the two: Group Play is made up of four separate double elimination brackets.
32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group.
24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
*cough* Kespa Players *cough*
I suspect that as well. And please, Shakuras and Tal'darim? There is a reason why people tick them off even on ladder...
Why not demonstrate a little ambition like IPL did when they added their own maps? Short of doing that, and likely short on time, what about those recently released ESV maps? It's true that an undiscovered exploit may hamper a debut at the Summer Championship...or they could just end up sucking, but it's a worthwhile risk compared to maps with known balance issues that are also quite old. None of the new ESV maps appear as crazy as Testbug, which MLG used in the past. Players could demonstrate their preparation in how they play the map and be rewarded.
If there will be 8 Kespa players invited (instead of having them qualify like everyone else) over other players who would deserve it alot more, then i am going to boycot this event and not watch... business > competition? fuck that...
When will they finally hire someone to make these decisions who follows the scene and knows what the fans want to see? Who makes these decisions now anyway and does he know noone likes what he does?
I can't believe they still have extended series after 2 years of bad matches due to it and angry fans.
Well, they did get rid of extended series in the Champ bracket, for the people unable to figure out why it was needed. And it's limited in the previous two stages.
Though Champ brackets will be a bit shorter now since, well, you lose once, you go home.
On July 28 2012 20:24 dakalro wrote: Well, they did get rid of extended series in the Champ bracket, for the people unable to figure out why it was needed. And it's limited in the previous two stages.
Though Champ brackets will be a bit shorter now since, well, you lose once, you go home.
In the lengthy Losers Bracket, it's gone (since the resuts from previous stages no longer carry over), but it can happen in the Semifinal Matches (either from the loser of Winners Round 1 winning in Losers Round 8 and earning a rematch, or otherwise from the Losers Bracket player winning the initial Bo3 in the Semifinal to bring it to an extended Bo7).
I like the switch to two double elim brackets where the winner of each have a grand final. While that pushes the "bad MLG finals" syndrome over to both semifinals, at least the ending can feel a bit more exciting than a properly done double elim finals normally is.
How out of touch can MLG really be? The community doesn`t want those ancient maps. I am sure the players don`t want those ancient maps. How hard can this decision be? There is new maps integrated in other tournaments successfully.
Making an huge change in the format of the tournament, but not updating the maps is weird.
it's pretty funny how zergs whine about maps being imba for zergs when even antiga shipyard is even nowadays and entombed 60% ZvT, and we have maps like metropolis which 65% ZvT
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Yea, lets just hand out invites to people who failed to even qualified to MLG arena. You dont see the problem giving out invites to fan favorite foreigners that lose to other players who qualified to MLG arena but coulnt qualify to the next MLG?
On July 28 2012 07:05 Dakure wrote: Edit: I don't think extended series is quite gone. Within the different stages there might be extended series (though since rematches can't happen in Open Bracket, only stages 2 and 3 might have them). I think that's the whole point with match history not carrying over from one stage into another. ie, if players A and B meet each other twice in Stage 2, then there will be extended series but if they met once in stage 2 and once in stage 3, then no extended series.
It's pretty nice.
Yes, in fact extended series is still alive - the only difference is that once you enter the Championship bracket (stage 3), all previous match histories (from stages 1 and 2) are reset or forgotten.
Using the Championship Bracket example that MLG gave us, I think the only possible extended series matchups at that point are if "1st Group A" meets "1st Group D" again, if "1st Group C" meets "1st Group B" again, or if "1st Group A" meets "1st Group B" again. That example shows the maximum number of extended series (rematches) possible within that bracket.
In fact, both the Championship bracket example (above) and the Group stages bracket example have a line under the "Key" section that says "Rematches = Extended Best of 7 Games".
I don't like extended series, though. I think what people are always advocating for are two Best of "x" series instead, with the player with the advantage only need to win 1 BO series while the disadvantaged player has to win 2 BO series in a row. It's a slight difference, but it works better imo (it still gives an advantage to one player but it retains more of a "fresh start" feel than extended series).
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Yea, lets just hand out invites to people who failed to even qualified to MLG arena. You dont see the problem giving out invites to fan favorite foreigners that lose to other players who qualified to MLG arena but coulnt qualify to the next MLG?
I like tournaments with fan favorite foreigners, cause when they play the hope they win/pull a upset vs a korean is always there and that makes it more fun in compare to only korean vs korean games... and the people i putted there are all able to pull a upset (except idra maybe, but he has so much fans)
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Yea, lets just hand out invites to people who failed to even qualified to MLG arena. You dont see the problem giving out invites to fan favorite foreigners that lose to other players who qualified to MLG arena but coulnt qualify to the next MLG?
I like tournaments with fan favorite foreigners, cause when they play the hope they win/pull a upset vs a korean is always there and that makes it more fun in compare to only korean vs korean games... and the people i putted there are all able to pull a upset (except idra maybe, but he has so much fans)
Irrelevant. There were qualifiers and they failed to qualify.
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Yea, lets just hand out invites to people who failed to even qualified to MLG arena. You dont see the problem giving out invites to fan favorite foreigners that lose to other players who qualified to MLG arena but coulnt qualify to the next MLG?
I like tournaments with fan favorite foreigners, cause when they play the hope they win/pull a upset vs a korean is always there and that makes it more fun in compare to only korean vs korean games... and the people i putted there are all able to pull a upset (except idra maybe, but he has so much fans)
Irrelevant. There were qualifiers and they failed to qualify.
Well, i just say im hoping it. It would increase my tourney-viewing experience a lot... and i think that goes for a lot of viewers, and its about the viewers right? I dunno if mlg got stats about it, but im pretty sure they see a increase of viewers on the streams that have the foreigner fan fav on
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Yea, lets just hand out invites to people who failed to even qualified to MLG arena. You dont see the problem giving out invites to fan favorite foreigners that lose to other players who qualified to MLG arena but coulnt qualify to the next MLG?
I like tournaments with fan favorite foreigners, cause when they play the hope they win/pull a upset vs a korean is always there and that makes it more fun in compare to only korean vs korean games... and the people i putted there are all able to pull a upset (except idra maybe, but he has so much fans)
First off inviting those guys is a terrible idea, second off doing that basically makes the whole tournament stupid and how is TLO able to pull an upset more than Idra?
Also the kespa guys would draw a lot of viewers as well, and given that there are 8 kespa teams and 8 invites, its probably kespa. I think having invites is dumb, but if you have them give them to DRG, MKP, Polt, and other players that couldnt attend arena but qualified for it, and/or players like Seed, MC, Squirtle, Nestea, MVP,Byun, Symbol who didnt qualify, but could easily win the whole thing and inviting them is justified by their performance in GSL.
"6. Mice and keyboards must utilize standard USB interfaces. Players may not use PS2 interface equipment."
So players using a Qsenn/Samsung DT-35 (my keyboard of choice) of any decent mechanical keyboard will have to use a PS/2 to USB adapter, as opposed to the standard USB to PS/2 adapter. Why does this matter? PS/2 interface mechanical keyboards have NKRO (defined in wikipedia: This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time"), and lose this ability if used through USB. And many popular keyboards (probably popular because of NKRO) use PS/2 exclusively.
Basically, MLG has banned NKRO (n-key rollover) from StarCraft 2. If your keyboard is PS/2, you have to downgrade its performance with a USB adapter.
What next? All mice must use balls instead of optical or laser sensors?
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Yea, lets just hand out invites to people who failed to even qualified to MLG arena. You dont see the problem giving out invites to fan favorite foreigners that lose to other players who qualified to MLG arena but coulnt qualify to the next MLG?
I like tournaments with fan favorite foreigners, cause when they play the hope they win/pull a upset vs a korean is always there and that makes it more fun in compare to only korean vs korean games... and the people i putted there are all able to pull a upset (except idra maybe, but he has so much fans)
First off inviting those guys is a terrible idea, second off doing that basically makes the whole tournament stupid and how is TLO able to pull an upset more than Idra?
Also the kespa guys would draw a lot of viewers as well, and given that there are 8 kespa teams and 8 invites, its probably kespa. I think having invites is dumb, but if you have them give them to DRG, MKP, Polt, and other players that couldnt attend arena but qualified for it, and/or players like Seed, MC, Squirtle, Nestea, MVP,Byun, Symbol who didnt qualify, but could easily win the whole thing and inviting them is justified by their performance in GSL.
You want more of the same.. you have exactly what you hope for in the GSL right, only koreans with a single foreigner, go watch that. Asus/dh is foreigners mostly so if you like that, go there. MLG should be/was a tourney in the middle, favorite foreigners/cool koreans but right now its looking more like gslV2
On July 28 2012 06:19 ImAbstracT wrote: Sounds good. Now, about extended series Sundance...
........................ the results dont carry over, so there isnt a situation where extended series is possible...................................... stop trying to be funny and read the thread properly.
On July 28 2012 06:19 ImAbstracT wrote: Sounds good. Now, about extended series Sundance...
........................ the results dont carry over, so there isnt a situation where extended series is possible...................................... stop trying to be funny and read the thread properly.
They don't carry over from one stage to another, but within each stage extended series is possible.
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Yea, lets just hand out invites to people who failed to even qualified to MLG arena. You dont see the problem giving out invites to fan favorite foreigners that lose to other players who qualified to MLG arena but coulnt qualify to the next MLG?
I like tournaments with fan favorite foreigners, cause when they play the hope they win/pull a upset vs a korean is always there and that makes it more fun in compare to only korean vs korean games... and the people i putted there are all able to pull a upset (except idra maybe, but he has so much fans)
Irrelevant. There were qualifiers and they failed to qualify.
Well, i just say im hoping it. It would increase my tourney-viewing experience a lot... and i think that goes for a lot of viewers, and its about the viewers right? I dunno if mlg got stats about it, but im pretty sure they see a increase of viewers on the streams that have the foreigner fan fav on
I respect your opinion and all, but I really feel like MLG is not the place for fan favourite foreign invites. MLG is much about merit-based placement. I don't watch MLG because of foreign hopes. I watch MLG to see who is the best in that particular weekend or whatever. If there happens to be a foriegner, good for him/her. And the best part would be that the foriegner earned it instead of being invited.
There is a time and a place for invite-based tournaments, but I don't think MLG Championships are it. Now, if there are seeds (ie, top PL performers get a seed), then that's a merit-based seed, not quite an invite. And I'm okay with that. Similarly, if top placing MLG players were given an OSL seed at a later point in time, that would be pretty cool too. Sort of like the GSL-MLG exchange progam. It sort of feels like Champions League to me, and that's cool.
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Yea, lets just hand out invites to people who failed to even qualified to MLG arena. You dont see the problem giving out invites to fan favorite foreigners that lose to other players who qualified to MLG arena but coulnt qualify to the next MLG?
I like tournaments with fan favorite foreigners, cause when they play the hope they win/pull a upset vs a korean is always there and that makes it more fun in compare to only korean vs korean games... and the people i putted there are all able to pull a upset (except idra maybe, but he has so much fans)
First off inviting those guys is a terrible idea, second off doing that basically makes the whole tournament stupid and how is TLO able to pull an upset more than Idra?
Also the kespa guys would draw a lot of viewers as well, and given that there are 8 kespa teams and 8 invites, its probably kespa. I think having invites is dumb, but if you have them give them to DRG, MKP, Polt, and other players that couldnt attend arena but qualified for it, and/or players like Seed, MC, Squirtle, Nestea, MVP,Byun, Symbol who didnt qualify, but could easily win the whole thing and inviting them is justified by their performance in GSL.
You want more of the same.. you have exactly what you hope for in the GSL right, only koreans with a single foreigner, go watch that. Asus/dh is foreigners mostly so if you like that, go there. MLG should be/was a tourney in the middle, favorite foreigners/cool koreans but right now its looking more like gslV2
ALL tournaments should favor the players that perform in their tournaments/qualifiers and nothing else.
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Yea, lets just hand out invites to people who failed to even qualified to MLG arena. You dont see the problem giving out invites to fan favorite foreigners that lose to other players who qualified to MLG arena but coulnt qualify to the next MLG?
I like tournaments with fan favorite foreigners, cause when they play the hope they win/pull a upset vs a korean is always there and that makes it more fun in compare to only korean vs korean games... and the people i putted there are all able to pull a upset (except idra maybe, but he has so much fans)
Irrelevant. There were qualifiers and they failed to qualify.
Well, i just say im hoping it. It would increase my tourney-viewing experience a lot... and i think that goes for a lot of viewers, and its about the viewers right? I dunno if mlg got stats about it, but im pretty sure they see a increase of viewers on the streams that have the foreigner fan fav on
If you pander to the most popular players of the moment, that will create tournament stagnation. It is one of the reasons why there is so much more KR talent compared to the foreigner scene.
On July 29 2012 12:33 Masvidal wrote: Most disturbing rule of all:
"6. Mice and keyboards must utilize standard USB interfaces. Players may not use PS2 interface equipment."
So players using a Qsenn/Samsung DT-35 (my keyboard of choice) of any decent mechanical keyboard will have to use a PS/2 to USB adapter, as opposed to the standard USB to PS/2 adapter. Why does this matter? PS/2 interface mechanical keyboards have NKRO (defined in wikipedia: This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time"), and lose this ability if used through USB. And many popular keyboards (probably popular because of NKRO) use PS/2 exclusively.
Basically, MLG has banned NKRO (n-key rollover) from StarCraft 2. If your keyboard is PS/2, you have to downgrade its performance with a USB adapter.
What next? All mice must use balls instead of optical or laser sensors?
I agree it's a bit weird (especially since most motherboards still offer a PS/2 port as far as I know), but it's not as bad as you make us believe I feel. USB supports what, 4 / 5 keys pressed simultaneously which is more than enough. No real need for true NKRO for SC2 imo. I think you disagree, so please provide a use case for NKRO in SC2, i.e. a situation where pressing 5+ keys simultaneously would be significantly beneficial over pressing them sequentially.
I have a Filco keyboard myself which is actually USB by default but supports NKRO if I connect it using a USB -> PS/2 converter but I'm just using the USB connection. Blasphemy, I know >_>
About the format; I think it's better than before when proper seeds are used to avoid having the two best players in the same bracket (in the Championship Bracket). But I suppose players will be seeded according to their Group Play results so this should be fine.
Why is everyone against extended series? It prevents players from being kicked out eventhough they had a better record against the other player.. (e.g. someone winning 3-0 then loosing 3-2 has a record of 5-3 but is still kicked out by the other player...)
and why is 4 double elim. brackets better than pools? I mean it doesn't really make a big difference, but pool play is the best way to get objective results since you play against everyone in your group. You can get lucky alot easier in a bracket
On July 29 2012 16:18 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: Why is everyone against extended series? It prevents players from being kicked out eventhough they had a better record against the other player.. (e.g. someone winning 3-0 then loosing 3-2 has a record of 5-3 but is still kicked out by the other player...)
and why is 4 double elim. brackets better than pools? I mean it doesn't really make a big difference, but pool play is the best way to get objective results since you play against everyone in your group. You can get lucky alot easier in a bracket
For extended series, it is a matter of excitement. Matches in which extended series plays a part tend to happen late in the tournament, and it is often frustrating to watch matches at that point in the tournament stacked very heavily towards one or the other player before the match even begins. Though it might be reasonable view a view to a mathematical sense of fairness, both as a spectator (and it seems as a competitor) it is no fun at all.
It is hard to understand why MLG insists on keeping it, and somewhat ridiculous how outlandish they have to make their tournament format in order to overcome the negative aspects of extended series - especially as the changes in tournament structure makes for a tournament where the randomness of seeding has a larger impact, not smaller. I can only agree with you on the multiple and separate bracket-structure. It is a mess and it is completely unnecessary.
On July 29 2012 16:18 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: Why is everyone against extended series? It prevents players from being kicked out eventhough they had a better record against the other player.. (e.g. someone winning 3-0 then loosing 3-2 has a record of 5-3 but is still kicked out by the other player...)
and why is 4 double elim. brackets better than pools? I mean it doesn't really make a big difference, but pool play is the best way to get objective results since you play against everyone in your group. You can get lucky alot easier in a bracket
For extended series, it is a matter of excitement. Matches in which extended series plays a part tend to happen late in the tournament, and it is often frustrating to watch matches at that point in the tournament stacked very heavily towards one or the other player before the match even begins. Though it might be reasonable view a view to a mathematical sense of fairness, both as a spectator (and it seems as a competitor) it is no fun at all.
It is hard to understand why MLG insists on keeping it, and somewhat ridiculous how outlandish they have to make their tournament format in order to overcome the negative aspects of extended series - especially as the changes in tournament structure makes for a tournament where the randomness of seeding has a larger impact, not smaller. I can only agree with you on the multiple and separate bracket-structure. It is a mess and it is completely unnecessary.
The double-elimination 8-player Groups allow for the possibility of fewer games being played than round-robin 6-player Pools (13 series instead of 15, but the last two rounds of the LB may have extended series). However, I suspect that they changed it solely to fit those eight invites into that stage of the tournament without having to choose between having 28 Bo3's in each Pool or going to Bo1's.
BTW, that whole excitement vs. fairness argument is pretty much why the Arena was a split bracket, and why the Championship Bracket will be as well. True double-elimination finals are fair from the standpoint of the whole tournament, but on their own, they're pretty imbalanced and not as fun for some viewers as a single final starting on even terms.
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Oh hello no. Don't make me bring out the hickory stick and to the other guy I'm well aware extended can still happen.
By now I can just sadly shake my head in regards to Map Pool and Extended Series. I've yet to see any valid reason as to why the former one is never up to date and as to why the latter one still exists. I hope it hasn't anything to do with company pride...
I mean other than that MLG has improved so much. It's a pity that the Map Pool is one of the bigger issues now
On July 29 2012 23:34 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: By now I can just sadly shake my head in regards to Map Pool and Extended Series. I've yet to see any valid reason as to why the former one is never up to date and as to why the latter one still exists. I hope it hasn't anything to do with company pride...
I mean other than that MLG has improved so much. It's a pity that the Map Pool is one of the bigger issues now
Maybe MLG is hesitant to, say, replace Tal'Darim with GSL whirlwind, because of their problems with GomTV. Just a theory though, but I think they're more likely in the future to use maps KeSPA players have practice on than GSL players.
On July 29 2012 16:18 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: Why is everyone against extended series? It prevents players from being kicked out eventhough they had a better record against the other player.. (e.g. someone winning 3-0 then loosing 3-2 has a record of 5-3 but is still kicked out by the other player...)
and why is 4 double elim. brackets better than pools? I mean it doesn't really make a big difference, but pool play is the best way to get objective results since you play against everyone in your group. You can get lucky alot easier in a bracket
For extended series, it is a matter of excitement. Matches in which extended series plays a part tend to happen late in the tournament, and it is often frustrating to watch matches at that point in the tournament stacked very heavily towards one or the other player before the match even begins. Though it might be reasonable view a view to a mathematical sense of fairness, both as a spectator (and it seems as a competitor) it is no fun at all.
It is hard to understand why MLG insists on keeping it, and somewhat ridiculous how outlandish they have to make their tournament format in order to overcome the negative aspects of extended series - especially as the changes in tournament structure makes for a tournament where the randomness of seeding has a larger impact, not smaller. I can only agree with you on the multiple and separate bracket-structure. It is a mess and it is completely unnecessary.
I don't think extended series lacks excitement at all. Last year HerO went from down 3-0 to DRG to tying the series up before losing the final match. That's exciting. All TL players were sitting there cheering/analyzing. Excitement can come from overcoming odds as well. I think extended series allows the better player to exert their dominance and making it difficult for the underdog to overcome the deficit.
As for stacking. The easiest way to not have it stacked against you.... don't lose, win. It's that simple.
The only aspect of extended series I'd change is results from group stages. It doesn't make sense as none of the series is an elimination/lower bracket type.
(I didn't read through entire XX pages, did it say anything about how double elimination would work in the stage 3 championship bracket?)
On July 29 2012 16:18 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: Why is everyone against extended series? It prevents players from being kicked out eventhough they had a better record against the other player.. (e.g. someone winning 3-0 then loosing 3-2 has a record of 5-3 but is still kicked out by the other player...)
and why is 4 double elim. brackets better than pools? I mean it doesn't really make a big difference, but pool play is the best way to get objective results since you play against everyone in your group. You can get lucky alot easier in a bracket
For extended series, it is a matter of excitement. Matches in which extended series plays a part tend to happen late in the tournament, and it is often frustrating to watch matches at that point in the tournament stacked very heavily towards one or the other player before the match even begins. Though it might be reasonable view a view to a mathematical sense of fairness, both as a spectator (and it seems as a competitor) it is no fun at all.
It is hard to understand why MLG insists on keeping it, and somewhat ridiculous how outlandish they have to make their tournament format in order to overcome the negative aspects of extended series - especially as the changes in tournament structure makes for a tournament where the randomness of seeding has a larger impact, not smaller. I can only agree with you on the multiple and separate bracket-structure. It is a mess and it is completely unnecessary.
I don't think extended series lacks excitement at all. Last year HerO went from down 3-0 to DRG to tying the series up before losing the final match. That's exciting. All TL players were sitting there cheering/analyzing. Excitement can come from overcoming odds as well. I think extended series allows the better player to exert their dominance and making it difficult for the underdog to overcome the deficit.
As for stacking. The easiest way to not have it stacked against you.... don't lose, win. It's that simple.
The only aspect of extended series I'd change is results from group stages. It doesn't make sense as none of the series is an elimination/lower bracket type.
(I didn't read through entire XX pages, did it say anything about how double elimination would work in the stage 3 championship bracket?)
Yeah extended series is exciting... once in five or six event, when the one from the lower bracket start with a disadvantage and still win or get close to. That's it. Al the other time, it just screw the viewing experience up. Yeah, really, that's a good idea. Let's keep it.
On July 29 2012 16:18 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: Why is everyone against extended series? It prevents players from being kicked out eventhough they had a better record against the other player.. (e.g. someone winning 3-0 then loosing 3-2 has a record of 5-3 but is still kicked out by the other player...)
and why is 4 double elim. brackets better than pools? I mean it doesn't really make a big difference, but pool play is the best way to get objective results since you play against everyone in your group. You can get lucky alot easier in a bracket
For extended series, it is a matter of excitement. Matches in which extended series plays a part tend to happen late in the tournament, and it is often frustrating to watch matches at that point in the tournament stacked very heavily towards one or the other player before the match even begins. Though it might be reasonable view a view to a mathematical sense of fairness, both as a spectator (and it seems as a competitor) it is no fun at all.
It is hard to understand why MLG insists on keeping it, and somewhat ridiculous how outlandish they have to make their tournament format in order to overcome the negative aspects of extended series - especially as the changes in tournament structure makes for a tournament where the randomness of seeding has a larger impact, not smaller. I can only agree with you on the multiple and separate bracket-structure. It is a mess and it is completely unnecessary.
I don't think extended series lacks excitement at all. Last year HerO went from down 3-0 to DRG to tying the series up before losing the final match. That's exciting. All TL players were sitting there cheering/analyzing. Excitement can come from overcoming odds as well. I think extended series allows the better player to exert their dominance and making it difficult for the underdog to overcome the deficit.
As for stacking. The easiest way to not have it stacked against you.... don't lose, win. It's that simple.
The only aspect of extended series I'd change is results from group stages. It doesn't make sense as none of the series is an elimination/lower bracket type.
(I didn't read through entire XX pages, did it say anything about how double elimination would work in the stage 3 championship bracket?)
Do the 1 result of 4-3 make up for the 9 results of 4-2/4-1?
Of course a player beating the odds is exciting to watch, but it is also very uncommon. The majority of matches will be less exciting as a result of extended series. I don't think that the added security in determining the best player is worth the sacrifice - especially as there are compounding issues that aren't taken into consideration: One important issue is maps. As far as I'm aware (please correct me if I'm wrong) maps are not excluded from being played twice in an extended series. As maps have a large impact on the probability of wins between the players, a player can be 'punished' doubly by having losses on an imbalanced map remembered and having to play the same map again in the extended series.
On July 29 2012 16:18 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: Why is everyone against extended series? It prevents players from being kicked out eventhough they had a better record against the other player.. (e.g. someone winning 3-0 then loosing 3-2 has a record of 5-3 but is still kicked out by the other player...)
and why is 4 double elim. brackets better than pools? I mean it doesn't really make a big difference, but pool play is the best way to get objective results since you play against everyone in your group. You can get lucky alot easier in a bracket
For extended series, it is a matter of excitement. Matches in which extended series plays a part tend to happen late in the tournament, and it is often frustrating to watch matches at that point in the tournament stacked very heavily towards one or the other player before the match even begins. Though it might be reasonable view a view to a mathematical sense of fairness, both as a spectator (and it seems as a competitor) it is no fun at all.
It is hard to understand why MLG insists on keeping it, and somewhat ridiculous how outlandish they have to make their tournament format in order to overcome the negative aspects of extended series - especially as the changes in tournament structure makes for a tournament where the randomness of seeding has a larger impact, not smaller. I can only agree with you on the multiple and separate bracket-structure. It is a mess and it is completely unnecessary.
I don't think extended series lacks excitement at all. Last year HerO went from down 3-0 to DRG to tying the series up before losing the final match. That's exciting. All TL players were sitting there cheering/analyzing. Excitement can come from overcoming odds as well. I think extended series allows the better player to exert their dominance and making it difficult for the underdog to overcome the deficit.
As for stacking. The easiest way to not have it stacked against you.... don't lose, win. It's that simple.
The only aspect of extended series I'd change is results from group stages. It doesn't make sense as none of the series is an elimination/lower bracket type.
(I didn't read through entire XX pages, did it say anything about how double elimination would work in the stage 3 championship bracket?)
The change in the extended series rule (a meeting in the Open Bracket or Groups does not trigger extended series in later stages of the tournament) takes care of that. The way it was set up before, the WB player could have gone into the Championship final with an extended series disadvantage (if the opponent beat him/her in Pool Play).
The pictures linked in the OP have example brackets for Group Play and the Championship Bracket.
The Open Bracket is again constructed so it is impossible to play the same player twice. New for Summer is the fact that Open Bracket match history will not be carried over into the latter stages of the Event.
god I hope this is true, last year there were several people who faced the same person twice in open brackets, it happend very frequently.
I understand that most people dont like the current map pool due to some maps being imbalanced. Nonetheless, I from my perspective, love to watch MLG just because they have maps like Taldarim in their map pool. Watching Ohana, Daybreak, Cloud Kingdom, Entombed Valley, Antiga Shipyard, Metropolis in foreign events over and over again is really boring... Why just not try a more "aggressive" approach in the future and switch the "bad" maps with some fresh and recognised maps (like whirlwind for example). Whenever I check out the custom games section of TL, there are a lot of maps published... so its kinda a question to me why these maps dont get the chance to prove em in some smaller events or something like that, to be used later for bigger (if they prove themselves)... but well thats another story.
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Oh hello no. Don't make me bring out the hickory stick and to the other guy I'm well aware extended can still happen.
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Oh hello no. Don't make me bring out the hickory stick and to the other guy I'm well aware extended can still happen.
MLG loves their clown shoes.
it'll be kespa players I bet, not foreigners
8 kespa players is a lot o.O i might be happy to see 4 kespa players and 4 players like DRG and MKP who were busy during arena
On July 29 2012 12:33 Masvidal wrote: Most disturbing rule of all:
"6. Mice and keyboards must utilize standard USB interfaces. Players may not use PS2 interface equipment."
So players using a Qsenn/Samsung DT-35 (my keyboard of choice) of any decent mechanical keyboard will have to use a PS/2 to USB adapter, as opposed to the standard USB to PS/2 adapter. Why does this matter? PS/2 interface mechanical keyboards have NKRO (defined in wikipedia: This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time"), and lose this ability if used through USB. And many popular keyboards (probably popular because of NKRO) use PS/2 exclusively.
Basically, MLG has banned NKRO (n-key rollover) from StarCraft 2. If your keyboard is PS/2, you have to downgrade its performance with a USB adapter.
What next? All mice must use balls instead of optical or laser sensors?
I think you disagree, so please provide a use case for NKRO in SC2, i.e. a situation where pressing 5+ keys simultaneously would be significantly beneficial over pressing them sequentially.
Okay, I'll use myself as an example. In PvP, I use 1-3 for unit hotkeys, 4 for Nexus, 5 for miscellaneous, and 6,7,8,9,0 for Robotics Facility. The Robo has 3 units you can build; Colossus (hotkey C, bottom left of the keyboard), Observer (hotkey B, bottom row center), and importantly for my case, the Immortal (hotkey I, far to the right at the top and somewhat hard to reach). I always use default hotkeys so I can keep things consistent, and they are all pretty good, but the I key is somewhat out of the way. Looking at the keyboard is bad, however, and I don't want to miss. So I hotkey my Robo to 6-0 and literally just slap my hand on the upper left side of the keyboard, fingertips first (over 4 number keys, all hotkeyed to robo), with the rest of my fingers following behind, pressing basically every key in the general area, bottom to top; essentially, I am hitting 7890 simultaneously, and a fraction of a second later, keys 7890uiopjkl; and maybe m,./ are all depressed at once. Basically I slap the right side of the keyboard to select my Robo and train an Immortal. It works with NKRO and I've ALWAYS played with an NKRO keyboard; I'm used to the fact that if I press a key, it WILL REGISTER, regardless of how many other keys I'm pressing at the same time, so if no other relevant hotkeys are in the general area, I press as many keys as possible around it just to make sure I didn't accidentally miss the key by one row or column, which DOES happen from time to time, even for those who are extremely familiar with the keyboard.
On July 29 2012 12:33 Masvidal wrote: Most disturbing rule of all:
"6. Mice and keyboards must utilize standard USB interfaces. Players may not use PS2 interface equipment."
So players using a Qsenn/Samsung DT-35 (my keyboard of choice) of any decent mechanical keyboard will have to use a PS/2 to USB adapter, as opposed to the standard USB to PS/2 adapter. Why does this matter? PS/2 interface mechanical keyboards have NKRO (defined in wikipedia: This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time"), and lose this ability if used through USB. And many popular keyboards (probably popular because of NKRO) use PS/2 exclusively.
Basically, MLG has banned NKRO (n-key rollover) from StarCraft 2. If your keyboard is PS/2, you have to downgrade its performance with a USB adapter.
What next? All mice must use balls instead of optical or laser sensors?
I think you disagree, so please provide a use case for NKRO in SC2, i.e. a situation where pressing 5+ keys simultaneously would be significantly beneficial over pressing them sequentially.
Okay, I'll use myself as an example. In PvP, I use 1-3 for unit hotkeys, 4 for Nexus, 5 for miscellaneous, and 6,7,8,9,0 for Robotics Facility. The Robo has 3 units you can build; Colossus (hotkey C, bottom left of the keyboard), Observer (hotkey B, bottom row center), and importantly for my case, the Immortal (hotkey I, far to the right at the top and somewhat hard to reach). I always use default hotkeys so I can keep things consistent, and they are all pretty good, but the I key is somewhat out of the way. Looking at the keyboard is bad, however, and I don't want to miss. So I hotkey my Robo to 6-0 and literally just slap my hand on the upper left side of the keyboard, fingertips first (over 4 number keys, all hotkeyed to robo), with the rest of my fingers following behind, pressing basically every key in the general area, bottom to top; essentially, I am hitting 7890 simultaneously, and a fraction of a second later, keys 7890uiopjkl; and maybe m,./ are all depressed at once. Basically I slap the right side of the keyboard to select my Robo and train an Immortal. It works with NKRO and I've ALWAYS played with an NKRO keyboard; I'm used to the fact that if I press a key, it WILL REGISTER, regardless of how many other keys I'm pressing at the same time, so if no other relevant hotkeys are in the general area, I press as many keys as possible around it just to make sure I didn't accidentally miss the key by one row or column, which DOES happen from time to time, even for those who are extremely familiar with the keyboard.
Ok luckily no pros do anything insane like that. That's an awful playing habit.
On July 29 2012 12:33 Masvidal wrote: Most disturbing rule of all:
"6. Mice and keyboards must utilize standard USB interfaces. Players may not use PS2 interface equipment."
So players using a Qsenn/Samsung DT-35 (my keyboard of choice) of any decent mechanical keyboard will have to use a PS/2 to USB adapter, as opposed to the standard USB to PS/2 adapter. Why does this matter? PS/2 interface mechanical keyboards have NKRO (defined in wikipedia: This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time"), and lose this ability if used through USB. And many popular keyboards (probably popular because of NKRO) use PS/2 exclusively.
Basically, MLG has banned NKRO (n-key rollover) from StarCraft 2. If your keyboard is PS/2, you have to downgrade its performance with a USB adapter.
What next? All mice must use balls instead of optical or laser sensors?
I think you disagree, so please provide a use case for NKRO in SC2, i.e. a situation where pressing 5+ keys simultaneously would be significantly beneficial over pressing them sequentially.
Okay, I'll use myself as an example. In PvP, I use 1-3 for unit hotkeys, 4 for Nexus, 5 for miscellaneous, and 6,7,8,9,0 for Robotics Facility. The Robo has 3 units you can build; Colossus (hotkey C, bottom left of the keyboard), Observer (hotkey B, bottom row center), and importantly for my case, the Immortal (hotkey I, far to the right at the top and somewhat hard to reach). I always use default hotkeys so I can keep things consistent, and they are all pretty good, but the I key is somewhat out of the way. Looking at the keyboard is bad, however, and I don't want to miss. So I hotkey my Robo to 6-0 and literally just slap my hand on the upper left side of the keyboard, fingertips first (over 4 number keys, all hotkeyed to robo), with the rest of my fingers following behind, pressing basically every key in the general area, bottom to top; essentially, I am hitting 7890 simultaneously, and a fraction of a second later, keys 7890uiopjkl; and maybe m,./ are all depressed at once. Basically I slap the right side of the keyboard to select my Robo and train an Immortal. It works with NKRO and I've ALWAYS played with an NKRO keyboard; I'm used to the fact that if I press a key, it WILL REGISTER, regardless of how many other keys I'm pressing at the same time, so if no other relevant hotkeys are in the general area, I press as many keys as possible around it just to make sure I didn't accidentally miss the key by one row or column, which DOES happen from time to time, even for those who are extremely familiar with the keyboard.
Ok luckily no pros do anything insane like that. That's an awful playing habit.
No pros slip? No pros accidentally have their hand resting on the keyboard? Dunno what universe you're living in.
On July 29 2012 12:33 Masvidal wrote: Most disturbing rule of all:
"6. Mice and keyboards must utilize standard USB interfaces. Players may not use PS2 interface equipment."
So players using a Qsenn/Samsung DT-35 (my keyboard of choice) of any decent mechanical keyboard will have to use a PS/2 to USB adapter, as opposed to the standard USB to PS/2 adapter. Why does this matter? PS/2 interface mechanical keyboards have NKRO (defined in wikipedia: This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time"), and lose this ability if used through USB. And many popular keyboards (probably popular because of NKRO) use PS/2 exclusively.
Basically, MLG has banned NKRO (n-key rollover) from StarCraft 2. If your keyboard is PS/2, you have to downgrade its performance with a USB adapter.
What next? All mice must use balls instead of optical or laser sensors?
I think you disagree, so please provide a use case for NKRO in SC2, i.e. a situation where pressing 5+ keys simultaneously would be significantly beneficial over pressing them sequentially.
Okay, I'll use myself as an example. In PvP, I use 1-3 for unit hotkeys, 4 for Nexus, 5 for miscellaneous, and 6,7,8,9,0 for Robotics Facility. The Robo has 3 units you can build; Colossus (hotkey C, bottom left of the keyboard), Observer (hotkey B, bottom row center), and importantly for my case, the Immortal (hotkey I, far to the right at the top and somewhat hard to reach). I always use default hotkeys so I can keep things consistent, and they are all pretty good, but the I key is somewhat out of the way. Looking at the keyboard is bad, however, and I don't want to miss. So I hotkey my Robo to 6-0 and literally just slap my hand on the upper left side of the keyboard, fingertips first (over 4 number keys, all hotkeyed to robo), with the rest of my fingers following behind, pressing basically every key in the general area, bottom to top; essentially, I am hitting 7890 simultaneously, and a fraction of a second later, keys 7890uiopjkl; and maybe m,./ are all depressed at once. Basically I slap the right side of the keyboard to select my Robo and train an Immortal. It works with NKRO and I've ALWAYS played with an NKRO keyboard; I'm used to the fact that if I press a key, it WILL REGISTER, regardless of how many other keys I'm pressing at the same time, so if no other relevant hotkeys are in the general area, I press as many keys as possible around it just to make sure I didn't accidentally miss the key by one row or column, which DOES happen from time to time, even for those who are extremely familiar with the keyboard.
Ok luckily no pros do anything insane like that. That's an awful playing habit.
No pros slip? No pros accidentally have their hand resting on the keyboard? Dunno what universe you're living in.
No pros slip so bad that they hit more than 7 keys at once, that's pretty bad. So far not one single actual pro has bitched about this rule since it was implemented in like 2010 or 2011? This is nothing new......
On July 29 2012 12:33 Masvidal wrote: Most disturbing rule of all:
"6. Mice and keyboards must utilize standard USB interfaces. Players may not use PS2 interface equipment."
So players using a Qsenn/Samsung DT-35 (my keyboard of choice) of any decent mechanical keyboard will have to use a PS/2 to USB adapter, as opposed to the standard USB to PS/2 adapter. Why does this matter? PS/2 interface mechanical keyboards have NKRO (defined in wikipedia: This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time"), and lose this ability if used through USB. And many popular keyboards (probably popular because of NKRO) use PS/2 exclusively.
Basically, MLG has banned NKRO (n-key rollover) from StarCraft 2. If your keyboard is PS/2, you have to downgrade its performance with a USB adapter.
What next? All mice must use balls instead of optical or laser sensors?
I think you disagree, so please provide a use case for NKRO in SC2, i.e. a situation where pressing 5+ keys simultaneously would be significantly beneficial over pressing them sequentially.
Okay, I'll use myself as an example. In PvP, I use 1-3 for unit hotkeys, 4 for Nexus, 5 for miscellaneous, and 6,7,8,9,0 for Robotics Facility. The Robo has 3 units you can build; Colossus (hotkey C, bottom left of the keyboard), Observer (hotkey B, bottom row center), and importantly for my case, the Immortal (hotkey I, far to the right at the top and somewhat hard to reach). I always use default hotkeys so I can keep things consistent, and they are all pretty good, but the I key is somewhat out of the way. Looking at the keyboard is bad, however, and I don't want to miss. So I hotkey my Robo to 6-0 and literally just slap my hand on the upper left side of the keyboard, fingertips first (over 4 number keys, all hotkeyed to robo), with the rest of my fingers following behind, pressing basically every key in the general area, bottom to top; essentially, I am hitting 7890 simultaneously, and a fraction of a second later, keys 7890uiopjkl; and maybe m,./ are all depressed at once. Basically I slap the right side of the keyboard to select my Robo and train an Immortal. It works with NKRO and I've ALWAYS played with an NKRO keyboard; I'm used to the fact that if I press a key, it WILL REGISTER, regardless of how many other keys I'm pressing at the same time, so if no other relevant hotkeys are in the general area, I press as many keys as possible around it just to make sure I didn't accidentally miss the key by one row or column, which DOES happen from time to time, even for those who are extremely familiar with the keyboard.
Ok luckily no pros do anything insane like that. That's an awful playing habit.
No pros slip? No pros accidentally have their hand resting on the keyboard? Dunno what universe you're living in.
No pros slip so bad that they hit more than 7 keys at once, that's pretty bad. So far not one single actual pro has bitched about this rule since it was implemented in like 2010 or 2011? This is nothing new......
On July 29 2012 12:33 Masvidal wrote: Most disturbing rule of all:
"6. Mice and keyboards must utilize standard USB interfaces. Players may not use PS2 interface equipment."
So players using a Qsenn/Samsung DT-35 (my keyboard of choice) of any decent mechanical keyboard will have to use a PS/2 to USB adapter, as opposed to the standard USB to PS/2 adapter. Why does this matter? PS/2 interface mechanical keyboards have NKRO (defined in wikipedia: This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time"), and lose this ability if used through USB. And many popular keyboards (probably popular because of NKRO) use PS/2 exclusively.
Basically, MLG has banned NKRO (n-key rollover) from StarCraft 2. If your keyboard is PS/2, you have to downgrade its performance with a USB adapter.
What next? All mice must use balls instead of optical or laser sensors?
I think you disagree, so please provide a use case for NKRO in SC2, i.e. a situation where pressing 5+ keys simultaneously would be significantly beneficial over pressing them sequentially.
Okay, I'll use myself as an example. In PvP, I use 1-3 for unit hotkeys, 4 for Nexus, 5 for miscellaneous, and 6,7,8,9,0 for Robotics Facility. The Robo has 3 units you can build; Colossus (hotkey C, bottom left of the keyboard), Observer (hotkey B, bottom row center), and importantly for my case, the Immortal (hotkey I, far to the right at the top and somewhat hard to reach). I always use default hotkeys so I can keep things consistent, and they are all pretty good, but the I key is somewhat out of the way. Looking at the keyboard is bad, however, and I don't want to miss. So I hotkey my Robo to 6-0 and literally just slap my hand on the upper left side of the keyboard, fingertips first (over 4 number keys, all hotkeyed to robo), with the rest of my fingers following behind, pressing basically every key in the general area, bottom to top; essentially, I am hitting 7890 simultaneously, and a fraction of a second later, keys 7890uiopjkl; and maybe m,./ are all depressed at once. Basically I slap the right side of the keyboard to select my Robo and train an Immortal. It works with NKRO and I've ALWAYS played with an NKRO keyboard; I'm used to the fact that if I press a key, it WILL REGISTER, regardless of how many other keys I'm pressing at the same time, so if no other relevant hotkeys are in the general area, I press as many keys as possible around it just to make sure I didn't accidentally miss the key by one row or column, which DOES happen from time to time, even for those who are extremely familiar with the keyboard.
Ok luckily no pros do anything insane like that. That's an awful playing habit.
No pros slip? No pros accidentally have their hand resting on the keyboard? Dunno what universe you're living in.
No pros slip so bad that they hit more than 7 keys at once, that's pretty bad. So far not one single actual pro has bitched about this rule since it was implemented in like 2010 or 2011? This is nothing new......
It's something that doesn't need to exist though.
The comps don't have PS/2 ports. There is a reason behind it. Why are we debating about a rule that has resulted in 0 complaints over 2+ years from the players?
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Oh hello no. Don't make me bring out the hickory stick and to the other guy I'm well aware extended can still happen.
MLG loves their clown shoes.
it'll be kespa players I bet, not foreigners
8 kespa players is a lot o.O i might be happy to see 4 kespa players and 4 players like DRG and MKP who were busy during arena
Same bloody thing. HELL NO.
Enough of the byes already. I want the players to earn their seeds properly. One day... hopefully one day we'll get rid of all this stupid bush league crap out of the system.
Let's get rid of the cheap gimmicks already. Enough is enough.
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Oh hello no. Don't make me bring out the hickory stick and to the other guy I'm well aware extended can still happen.
MLG loves their clown shoes.
it'll be kespa players I bet, not foreigners
8 kespa players is a lot o.O i might be happy to see 4 kespa players and 4 players like DRG and MKP who were busy during arena
Same bloody thing. HELL NO.
Enough of the byes already. I want the players to earn their seeds properly. One day... hopefully one day we'll get rid of all this stupid bush league crap out of the system.
Let's get rid of the cheap gimmicks already. Enough is enough.
who do you propose they be then? the winning LoL team from the LoL arena?
On July 29 2012 12:33 Masvidal wrote: Most disturbing rule of all:
"6. Mice and keyboards must utilize standard USB interfaces. Players may not use PS2 interface equipment."
So players using a Qsenn/Samsung DT-35 (my keyboard of choice) of any decent mechanical keyboard will have to use a PS/2 to USB adapter, as opposed to the standard USB to PS/2 adapter. Why does this matter? PS/2 interface mechanical keyboards have NKRO (defined in wikipedia: This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each keypress is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time"), and lose this ability if used through USB. And many popular keyboards (probably popular because of NKRO) use PS/2 exclusively.
Basically, MLG has banned NKRO (n-key rollover) from StarCraft 2. If your keyboard is PS/2, you have to downgrade its performance with a USB adapter.
What next? All mice must use balls instead of optical or laser sensors?
I think you disagree, so please provide a use case for NKRO in SC2, i.e. a situation where pressing 5+ keys simultaneously would be significantly beneficial over pressing them sequentially.
[ ... ]
So I hotkey my Robo to 6-0 and literally just slap my hand on the upper left side of the keyboard, fingertips first (over 4 number keys, all hotkeyed to robo), with the rest of my fingers following behind, pressing basically every key in the general area, bottom to top; essentially, I am hitting 7890 simultaneously, and a fraction of a second later, keys 7890uiopjkl; and maybe m,./ are all depressed at once. Basically I slap the right side of the keyboard to select my Robo and train an Immortal.
[ ... ]
I would recommend you change the Immortal hotkey from I to R, like I did. Hotkeys on the right half of the keyboard are stupid and you should really not use them. As the hotkey profiles are stored with your profile, there is really no reason to keep using default hotkeys as you can use your own hotkeys where ever you are anyway.
And I have to agree with Diamond here, your method is quite a terrible habit, no offense. "Let's press as many keys in the general area of the key I want to press, I will most likely hit it that way" >_>
My keyboard has a usb-cable and is perfectly able to recognize 17 keys pressed down simultaneously (supposed to be 26 if you install the drivers, but who can be bothered). I can't imagine you'd need more than that.
On topic: Glad to see they're keeping extended series to a minimum by dropping forgetting about prior games when going into a new stage of the tournament. Still, it's just a band-aid, the only real solution is to drop extended series all together. Also, the map pool T.T
On July 28 2012 06:16 MLGAnnouncements wrote: [*]32 players will compete in Group Play, with eight players per Group. [*]24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
Fan favorite foreigners please!! Would like that so much. Grubby Idra Thorzain Naniwa Ret Demuslim Huk TLO Something like this!
Oh hello no. Don't make me bring out the hickory stick and to the other guy I'm well aware extended can still happen.
MLG loves their clown shoes.
it'll be kespa players I bet, not foreigners
8 kespa players is a lot o.O i might be happy to see 4 kespa players and 4 players like DRG and MKP who were busy during arena
Same bloody thing. HELL NO.
Enough of the byes already. I want the players to earn their seeds properly. One day... hopefully one day we'll get rid of all this stupid bush league crap out of the system.
Let's get rid of the cheap gimmicks already. Enough is enough.
They can't not seed someone like Flash, because he might not make it through the open bracket if he tried that instead. ^^
It would be quite hilarious if MLG ran a lottery/raffle, where the 8 winners won a place in the Group Stages! That would probably prove quite lucrative! Haha. Maybe I should not be giving MLG these ideas for free! lol.
I expect that the 8 mystery players will be KESPA players. MLG do have this partnership with KESPA and the foundation of that agreement is having access to, and providing exposure for, these KESPA players. Inviting the GSL players is less likely to happen as MLG no longer have their partnership with GOM. Also seems pretty pointless to make players have to finish Top 16 in MLG Summer Arena to get Group Play and then give additional seeds to GSL players who did not finish in the Top 16 for some reason. So it will be KESPA players, they will be a draw to the BW crowd I guess, but everyone will know they only got invited due to the agreement with KESPA rather than through merit.
This agreement is good for KESPA but how exactly are they reciprocating to MLG? Are MLG winners/high placers going to get seeded into KESPA tournaments, similar to MLG seeds for GSL as we have previously seen?
I forsee MLG's in 2014 having a celebrity seed. Angelina Jolie, David Beckham and Lady Gaga getting seeds because they draw a big crowd. I can see it now, Justin Bieber doing a successful proxy-cannon rush and Idra rage-quitting in disgust!
I think it's a given that the 8 invites will be Kespa players. I don't see how anyone can even consider otherwise. There's absolutely no way MLG imagines they can get away with directly inviting 8 players who had every opportunity to qualify for MLG the normal way. It's unthinkable. The only reasonable alternative is the Kespa players, particularly considering their partnership. Does anyone think the Kespa players would be traveling to NA/Europe to play in an open bracket like that?
Whether it's a good idea or not is a different matter. Looking at the top 16 from Summer Arena, I think the most interesting question will be if any Kespa player manages to not finish last in his "group".
On August 01 2012 01:50 Nimic wrote: I think it's a given that the 8 invites will be Kespa players. I don't see how anyone can even consider otherwise. There's absolutely no way MLG imagines they can get away with directly inviting 8 players who had every opportunity to qualify for MLG the normal way. It's unthinkable. The only reasonable alternative is the Kespa players, particularly considering their partnership. Does anyone think the Kespa players would be traveling to NA/Europe to play in an open bracket like that?
Whether it's a good idea or not is a different matter. Looking at the top 16 from Summer Arena, I think the most interesting question will be if any Kespa player manages to not finish last in his "group".
Except that GSL prevented some of the strongest and most popular koreans from playing at the Arena. Most of which have proven that they can earn their top 16 spots at the Arenas.
MLG the only major sc2 tourney that is using tal'darim.... don't understand why they are focusing on format changes when they can't just eliminate 1 or 2 bad maps.
On August 01 2012 01:50 Nimic wrote: I think it's a given that the 8 invites will be Kespa players. I don't see how anyone can even consider otherwise. There's absolutely no way MLG imagines they can get away with directly inviting 8 players who had every opportunity to qualify for MLG the normal way. It's unthinkable. The only reasonable alternative is the Kespa players, particularly considering their partnership. Does anyone think the Kespa players would be traveling to NA/Europe to play in an open bracket like that?
Whether it's a good idea or not is a different matter. Looking at the top 16 from Summer Arena, I think the most interesting question will be if any Kespa player manages to not finish last in his "group".
Except that GSL prevented some of the strongest and most popular koreans from playing at the Arena. Most of which have proven that they can earn their top 16 spots at the Arenas.
There will always be players that for some reason or other can't attend a qualifying event. That doesn't justify giving them a free ticket to the front. It's absolutely the Kespa players, there's really no other explanation.
I like how TL always whines about fan-favourite invites in major tournaments.
What you guys fail to understand, is that fan-favourite invites make them major in the first place.
Tournaments without invites to players that draw a lot of eyes but could not/choose not to enroll in the qualifiers/ just fan favouritse will always get less vievers, sponsors, money and hence will always remain minor.
No tournament is stupid enough to diminish itself from being major to becoming minor. The invited players are invited for a reason.
aaaaaaaahhrrr, how lazy and/or clueless can they be? Too many old and poor maps. Oh btw remove extended series, they're nasty!
The format changes may be neat, except if one side of the brackets happen to get more stacked than the other, but dunno if that would even happen with seeds from the arena.
On July 29 2012 16:18 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: Why is everyone against extended series? It prevents players from being kicked out eventhough they had a better record against the other player.. (e.g. someone winning 3-0 then loosing 3-2 has a record of 5-3 but is still kicked out by the other player...)
and why is 4 double elim. brackets better than pools? I mean it doesn't really make a big difference, but pool play is the best way to get objective results since you play against everyone in your group. You can get lucky alot easier in a bracket
I do not see a fairness argument in extended series. Players play, win or loose and than get into some place in the tournament.
Each has completed his path to get this place. Each has equal opportunity to win, so no extended series is perfectly fair.
What is even more, the better player already has more chances to win.
What extended series really makes, is that it makes the already low chances of worse player even lower, since not only he is less likely to win, but he also has to win more maps.
Hence, the extended series provides unfair advantage to one who won, handicapping the loosing player, and drastically decreasing the competition.
If you look at other major sports, The "extended series situation", for example can happen in finals Euro(football), but even if it happens, the teams would start at 0:0 initial score, not the one that they had when playing at group stages.
On August 07 2012 07:27 naastyOne wrote: I like how TL always whines about fan-favourite invites in major tournaments.
What you guys fail to understand, is that fan-favourite invites make them major in the first place.
Tournaments without invites to players that draw a lot of eyes but could not/choose not to enroll in the qualifiers/ just fan favouritse will always get less vievers, sponsors, money and hence will always remain minor.
No tournament is stupid enough to diminish itself from being major to becoming minor. The invited players are invited for a reason.
Really? I had no idea... You should be a tournament organizer. I think many of us wants to see a good tournament were everyone has went through a fair qualification process with no priviliges just because player X is famous.
On August 07 2012 07:27 naastyOne wrote: I like how TL always whines about fan-favourite invites in major tournaments.
What you guys fail to understand, is that fan-favourite invites make them major in the first place.
Tournaments without invites to players that draw a lot of eyes but could not/choose not to enroll in the qualifiers/ just fan favouritse will always get less vievers, sponsors, money and hence will always remain minor.
No tournament is stupid enough to diminish itself from being major to becoming minor. The invited players are invited for a reason.
Really? I had no idea... You should be a tournament organizer. I think many of us wants to see a good tournament were everyone has went through a fair qualification process with no priviliges just because player X is famous.
If people of your kind are so many, care to call a reason why there are no major tournament to please you, but there are so many (GSL, foreinger seeds to code S directly, IPL, MLG,..) to have invites?
And if there are many, why not to go and watch those and leave the "stupid, unfair, unsportmanship" evel tournaments with invites for people who like the invites+qualifiers format?
MAybe non-invite tournaments do lack something? Maybe not enought prise money to attrackt the best players?
On August 07 2012 07:27 naastyOne wrote: I like how TL always whines about fan-favourite invites in major tournaments.
What you guys fail to understand, is that fan-favourite invites make them major in the first place.
Tournaments without invites to players that draw a lot of eyes but could not/choose not to enroll in the qualifiers/ just fan favouritse will always get less vievers, sponsors, money and hence will always remain minor.
No tournament is stupid enough to diminish itself from being major to becoming minor. The invited players are invited for a reason.
Really? I had no idea... You should be a tournament organizer. I think many of us wants to see a good tournament were everyone has went through a fair qualification process with no priviliges just because player X is famous.
If people of your kind are so many, care to call a reason why there are no major tournament to please you, but there are so many (GSL, foreinger seeds to code S directly, IPL, MLG,..) to have invites?
And if there are many, why not to go and watch those and leave the "stupid, unfair, unsportmanship" evel tournaments with invites for people who like the invites+qualifiers format?
MAybe non-invite tournaments do lack something? Maybe not enought prise money to attrackt the best players?
I do understand that big players attract a lot of viewers but I don't feel like we should encourage "major" tournaments to use invites. I think it stagnates the sc2 player base with the same players over and over.
I will still try to watch all the major tournaments even though they use invites. I just don't like it that's all. There is a difference between popular players and good players. An invite only tournament might become a minor tournament if you look on player skill.
On August 07 2012 07:27 naastyOne wrote: I like how TL always whines about fan-favourite invites in major tournaments.
What you guys fail to understand, is that fan-favourite invites make them major in the first place.
Tournaments without invites to players that draw a lot of eyes but could not/choose not to enroll in the qualifiers/ just fan favouritse will always get less vievers, sponsors, money and hence will always remain minor.
No tournament is stupid enough to diminish itself from being major to becoming minor. The invited players are invited for a reason.
Really? I had no idea... You should be a tournament organizer. I think many of us wants to see a good tournament were everyone has went through a fair qualification process with no priviliges just because player X is famous.
If people of your kind are so many, care to call a reason why there are no major tournament to please you, but there are so many (GSL, foreinger seeds to code S directly, IPL, MLG,..) to have invites?
And if there are many, why not to go and watch those and leave the "stupid, unfair, unsportmanship" evel tournaments with invites for people who like the invites+qualifiers format?
MAybe non-invite tournaments do lack something? Maybe not enought prise money to attrackt the best players?
I do understand that big players attract a lot of viewers but I don't feel like we should encourage "major" tournaments to use invites. I think it stagnates the sc2 player base with the same players over and over.
I will still try to watch all the major tournaments even though they use invites. I just don't like it that's all. There is a difference between popular players and good players. An invite only tournament might become a minor tournament if you look on player skill.
So, do you have a tournament without invites that does provides at least same level of play as the invite+qualifier(like the mentioned IPL, GSL, MLG), to watch instead?
And if the answer is no, wouldn`t the logical conclusion be that invites do increase the overall tournament play quality?
So far, i`ve seen (only one) invite-only tournament, the Red bull Battlegrounds, and i liked it a tonne, and eagerly wait for next one. The invite-only tournaments can be very good if done properly. That by no way means they should be the only format.
But so far, I do not see a lot of people that are complaining about the existence or lack of invite-only tournaments, nor do i see the complains of absence/lack off the hybrid, invites+qualifier tournaments, but I certainly can see a number of people that complain about the absence/lack of tournaments that are qualifier-only.
Which certainly drawns the conclusion that there is something wrong with the qualifier-only format, that leaves the people that want it dissatisfied, by either lack of such, or the level of play displayed at such events.
@LiquidSheth @idrajit going to be posting an article before raleigh on why we use the maps we do, clear the air some. it won't address everything you guys have been saying, but will shed some light on why we do it this way.
Well, I hope that the reason is NOT "we want the best games possible."
Bump, with 5 days to go until the tournament begins, no one still knows which KeSPA players are the 8 seeds for the group stage?
Either way, it's bad for KeSPA and their teams; they'll be super reluctant to send their star players away, especially with how tight Proleague is and the last week of games occurring the same time as MLG.
On August 20 2012 16:56 GTR wrote: Bump, with 5 days to go until the tournament begins, no one still knows which KeSPA players are the 8 seeds for the group stage?
Full player list coming by Tuesday at the latest looks like. Seems odd its that late considering how preemptive MLG can be sometimes
On August 20 2012 16:56 GTR wrote: Bump, with 5 days to go until the tournament begins, no one still knows which KeSPA players are the 8 seeds for the group stage?
I really doubt Kespa players will be coming because this weekend is the most important one in Proleague and will decide the playoff fate of most of the teams.
Cant you just remove rocks at 3rd to fix TDA? Personally I like TDA as a map but I realize the rocks completely fucks up Z in the current meta game with fast 3rds. But rather than just removing the map, cant you just remove the rocks?
On August 20 2012 17:13 Kreb wrote: Cant you just remove rocks at 3rd to fix TDA? Personally I like TDA as a map but I realize the rocks completely fucks up Z in the current meta game with fast 3rds. But rather than just removing the map, cant you just remove the rocks?
Dear lord MLG, how in world can it be so hard to change the map pool... If you are too lazy to figure out which maps you should use by yourselves, just use the maps GSL uses. Come the fuck on...
I'd imagine it's too late for them to change the maps now. What a disaster. Many of these esports events do so many incredible things with so few resources yet still manage to fumble small, easily correctable things like the map pool that have such a massive effect on the games. It hurts my soul.
On August 21 2012 11:10 SiguR wrote: I'd imagine it's too late for them to change the maps now. What a disaster. Many of these esports events do so many incredible things with so few resources yet still manage to fumble small, easily correctable things like the map pool that have such a massive effect on the games. It hurts my soul.
Why ? It's not like they are going to put completely new maps that nobody knows. No... They will put tournament maps that are used in every single tournament and are well known to everyone. Also I'm sure that no one will train for maps like Shakuras and Tal'darim, because it's a waste of time.
This has got to be a mistake.. The 2nd and 3rd most important games in the tournament being cast at the same time? I'm finding it hard to believe they made this sort of scheduling blunder.
This has got to be a mistake.. The 2nd and 3rd most important games in the tournament being cast at the same time? I'm finding it hard to believe they made this sort of scheduling blunder.
Or did they... ?
Lol maybe it means each semi-final is casted by both streams.. right? RIGHT!?
However, the upcoming MLG Championship in Raleigh will include the World Championship Series North America Finals.
Really? I'm not sure if i'm interpreting this properly, but it seems like two tournaments in the one weekend. You'd think after the huge amount of negative feedback players gave they wouldn't do this again.
This has got to be a mistake.. The 2nd and 3rd most important games in the tournament being cast at the same time? I'm finding it hard to believe they made this sort of scheduling blunder.
Or did they... ?
Lol maybe it means each semi-final is casted by both streams.. right? RIGHT!?
It's likely that they didn't want to deal with the possibility of having to show up to 21 games starting at 4PM (and that time assumes that the previous six rounds of the loser's bracket finish on schedule).
How is this the only thread for the MLG summer championship that is happening in THREE DAYS? The hype job by MLG for this tournament has been awful. Where's all the info? Still don't know who the 8 invited pro players are, or even the regular player list for that matter. I'm playing in the open bracket but I almost missed my chance when no announcement was ever made that competitor passes went on sale. First time I was made aware about the passes was when the waitlist thread on the MLG forums was made announcing they were sold out, thankfully I got on the list early enough to receive a pass. But now, if you go to the MLG store, SC2 competitor passes are being sold right now straight from the store. What the hell happened? Why was there no announcement, then a waitlist, then passes for all? Too confusing.
MLG makes headlines in Raleigh leading up to the Summer Championship, more about the economic impact it has on the city than the competition specifics.
After two successful years, it seems Major League Gaming is ready to become a fall fixture in Raleigh. Starting Friday, Aug. 24 and running throughout the weekend, MLG will be back for round three in Raleigh.
Another year means another chance for the event to impress and entertain fans of e-sports, while also showing the city the growing legitimacy of the professional video game circuit.
In the pursuit of this goal, MLG has taken steps to provide new content and incentives for fans from all around the state to come out. In particular, MLG has made the round held in Raleigh one of its most important competitions of the year. “It’s a big deal for us to come back to Raleigh,” Katie Goldberg, the vice president of communications for MLG, said. “There are only four championships this year, and we chose to have the summer season end in Raleigh.”
One of the most important factors in that decision was the heavy local traffic that the Raleigh events have seen in the past. While MLG events frequently pull in visitors from out-of-state, the number of nearby universities and the strength of the local video game industry have helped increase local awareness of the event.
The out-of-state business, meanwhile, is a boon to the city, which is why Raleigh has continued to work with MLG to provide hotel and restaurant connections for visitors.
“The current estimate is that there will be a $2 million direct impact to the Raleigh economy just based on the event and various sales,” Goldberg said.
To achieve that estimate, MLG is providing new events and features to fill the weekend for fans and bring back those who have visited MLG Raleigh in the past.
Those who attend this year will be able to view the action on four different stages, up from last year’s three. One stage will be dedicated to fighting games like Mortal Kombat and SoulCalibur V. Another will feature the popular battle arena game League of Legends, which has grown in popularity since its debut as an official game last year.
StarCraft II, in keeping with its status as one of the world’s most well-known competitive video games, rounds out the competition lineup. Two stages will be dedicated to the game, with competitors on the main stage once again playing in soundproof booths. League of Legends players will also be playing in the booths, allowing for maximum concentration. Beyond the competitive games, the convention floor will remain a place for attendees to soak in a bit of news about the future of gaming, as well as more than a few items of sponsored swag.
“There will be tons of both events and sponsors around the center,” Goldberg said. “The PlayStation booth will be offering demos of upcoming games for attendees to try. There will also be new products from MLG to try out and buy, including game controllers and equipment.”
For those who may be unable to attend the event, MLG continues to provide full streaming of major matches on its website. The enormous undertaking requires a team constantly working throughout the weekend, but the streaming service has bolstered the popularity of Major League Gaming by allowing fans to stay up on how their favorite teams are doing.
MLG remains an event very much for the hardcore gamer, but the spirit and grandeur of the event will be familiar to anyone who’s been to a major sports game. Though it’s far from a mainstream event, MLG Raleigh is quickly becoming an important event for the city, which has continued to welcome the competition back each year. With plans to make 2012 the biggest year yet for MLG, the hope is to draw in and entertain everyone from the seasoned fan to the curious newcomer this weekend.
Anyone else feel there is a total lack of hype on MLG's part behind this event? Three days until Raleigh and I've seen hardly anything in the last month. I'd really like to know why they can pay for everyone to fly out to an Arena but they don't want to hire someone to market their events like Slasher did. Almost nothing on TL, nothing on Reddit, nothing on major gaming sites. How the hell are casual viewers suppposed to know what is going if MLG doesn't want to get anyone aware their event is happening?
I'm going and I worry that Raleigh will be a big step down from Anaheim. What really puzzles me, though, is why is there still no player list? It worries me that so close to the event I have hardly heard anything about what's in store for the weekend, most importantly the players attending. Compared to the hype drummed up for previous events, it feels as though they aren't confident that Raleigh is going to be even as noteworthy as Columbus, let alone Anaheim.
The only places I've heard anything so far is from Adam and Sundance's twitters while searching for info on attending players, and there already seems to be more hype building for Dallas than there has been for the whole lead-up to this event so far.
Hopefully I get to Raleigh Friday and find the venue, huge and crowded and packed and full of energy, with an open bracket full of killers and some awesome KESPA players invited, but I'm getting worried.
On August 22 2012 14:38 Scribble wrote: I'm going and I worry that Raleigh will be a big step down from Anaheim. What really puzzles me, though, is why is there still no player list? It worries me that so close to the event I have hardly heard anything about what's in store for the weekend, most importantly the players attending. Compared to the hype drummed up for previous events, it feels as though they aren't confident that Raleigh is going to be even as noteworthy as Columbus, let alone Anaheim.
The only places I've heard anything so far is from Adam and Sundance's twitters while searching for info on attending players, and there already seems to be more hype building for Dallas than there has been for the whole lead-up to this event so far.
Hopefully I get to Raleigh Friday and find the venue, huge and crowded and packed and full of energy, with an open bracket full of killers and some awesome KESPA players invited, but I'm getting worried.
I feel the same way. It's really time to announce the full list of players attending so I and perhaps other people can plan their weekend accordingly to what it's worth.
I was curious when this was coming up. The changes look good, just sad I couldn't plan time around this to watch it. I realized publicity was low for their prize fights, but this? Oh well.
So I know this is a question that very few other people will care about the answer to, but I don't know where else to ask.
The format rules do not say how it will be decided which group each player advancing from the open bracket will go into. In the past the rules have included specific procedures for this. Am I missing something? I'd appreciate some clarification as I really enjoy being able to know where players I'm watching in the open bracket could end up.
On August 23 2012 01:49 TestSubject893 wrote: So I know this is a question that very few other people will care about the answer to, but I don't know where else to ask.
The format rules do not say how it will be decided which group each player advancing from the open bracket will go into. In the past the rules have included specific procedures for this. Am I missing something? I'd appreciate some clarification as I really enjoy being able to know where players I'm watching in the open bracket could end up.
IF I remember correctly, they use the seeds from open bracket. So we probably won't know until most of open bracket is finished.
On August 23 2012 01:49 TestSubject893 wrote: So I know this is a question that very few other people will care about the answer to, but I don't know where else to ask.
The format rules do not say how it will be decided which group each player advancing from the open bracket will go into. In the past the rules have included specific procedures for this. Am I missing something? I'd appreciate some clarification as I really enjoy being able to know where players I'm watching in the open bracket could end up.
IF I remember correctly, they use the seeds from open bracket. So we probably won't know until most of open bracket is finished.
In the past they have reseeded using the open bracket seeds, with predetermined pools for the new seeds. If they are still doing that, I'm wondering which pool each seed will be put into, as this has been determined randomly in the past, but was listed in the rules.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lCkmE.jpg)
, to see gold bases on Antiga and still Tal'darim in the pool. I mean really? Gold bases?!
