On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
TBH since the mule change Gold bases shouldn't be that big a deal Just Antiga is an awful map that should not be used and the gold on that map is a perfect example of how not to do a gold base
On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
TBH since the mule change Gold bases shouldn't be that big a deal Just Antiga is an awful map that should not be used and the gold on that map is a perfect example of how not to do a gold base
Was more talking about it being akin to MLG introducing golds to all maps, likely at all third or fourth bases.
I think the format changes are pretty good, this is will be more exciting. Pool play was kinda lame, but it was alright. Eight players from open bracket is better than 4, we will see how it work out.
On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
TBH since the mule change Gold bases shouldn't be that big a deal Just Antiga is an awful map that should not be used and the gold on that map is a perfect example of how not to do a gold base
I was thinking that too, but there isn't a gold on the WCS version of Antiga if I recall correctly. That must say something, right?
On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
TBH since the mule change Gold bases shouldn't be that big a deal Just Antiga is an awful map that should not be used and the gold on that map is a perfect example of how not to do a gold base
Was more talking about it being akin to MLG introducing golds to all maps, likely at all third or fourth bases.
SSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH you'll give them ideas
Wow kinda puzzling, had to read twice to get the sytem figured out. Map pool issue again? I mean i was really, well let's call it "suprised", to put in a nice way , to see gold bases on Antiga and still Tal'darim in the pool. I mean really? Gold bases?!
P.S i don't really mind Shakuras, but I can see why Zergs complain with lategame split map situations.
Edit: and for god's sake don't replace a map with fckn Whirlwind, that map sucks ass!
On July 28 2012 07:03 MarcH wrote: Well if \Extended series really is gone then MLG should sort their map pool out in around 2 years?
It is not really gone, but it has been limited to only functioning within the stage where the first match occurred.
I guess it would be analogous to MLG in two years time having all good maps, but modifying them with having all gold bases, blocked thirds or some other feature not seen in any other competition.
TBH since the mule change Gold bases shouldn't be that big a deal Just Antiga is an awful map that should not be used and the gold on that map is a perfect example of how not to do a gold base
I was thinking that too, but there isn't a gold on the WCS version of Antiga if I recall correctly. That must say something, right?
Yes that MLG is a perfect example of how not to do gold bases, a map maker will get them right eventually
Same as above. Good format changes, Map pool is terrible and needs a rework: -At the very least remove the gold bases on antiga. -Shakuras and Taldarim are outdated - add in Ohana instead of Taldarim, and a GSL map instead of Shakuras (Muspelheim is pretty good). -Also I dont see the point of removing Metropolis Islands. If anything they create interesting situations where players have to fight for them in the very-lategame when the other bases are mined out - which happends fairly often on this map.
Tal'darim has to go Antiga and Shakuras next... pls add ohana and some new maps.
Good job on the prize distribution. Also 13th gets some money, thats a lot better. Tournament system seems to be an improvement too. i am not sure i understand it in detail so.
Edit: i am really interested if MLG reads all this feedback about the maps. I guess we will see it soon.
I really don't think anyone, anywhere will be happy with this map pool as it currently stands.To point out the individual flaws
-The maps are old. We've seen them a billion times. I would have as much fun watching reruns of Friends as I would watching another PvT on Antiga Shipyard (aka a 4/10 on my personal entertainment value scale - not soul-destroyingly boring, but chances are I will find something better to do.) -Gold minerals are just not part of the game anymore. The community has discovered that they just don't play well & add many balance issues. -Antiga has exploits all over it and the second someone plays a match and all they do is abuse these things, it will be egg all over your face. Regardless of how viable some of the exploits are in general. -Removing expansions from maps or otherwise manipulating it in any way, shape or form is unethical and a poor decision overall. It is the map creator's decision, end of story. (MLG has acknowledged this and I do not believe it will happen again). -PvP on Tal'Darim Altar is a hellish nightmare for the players -The maps are really, really old. We've seen them over a billion times.
What I think MLG is overlooking is the consequences of a map pool like this. I'm going to break down one of the philosophies I have about Starcraft here, to put things into perspective.
StarCraft is a beautiful game. It is a game of mechanical skill, strategy, planning, adaptation and execution. The things that make it beautiful are a dime a dozen - from the simple concept of "more $ = more guys", to the brilliance of things like a two-base timing attack. In a perfect world, Starcraft would have only two overarching variables: The players, and the maps. Balance changes wouldn't be a concern and we'd be functionally playing the same game. The only thing that changes are the players, and the maps that they play on. (Elements like the metagame in general I consider sub-variables of these two things).
Maps serve a unique purpose towards the overall goal of competition (which is to discover who is the best at whatever they are competing over, or best deserving of a given prize.) Maps push the limit of a player's skill set, some players excel at macro and long, drawn out games, whereas others may be more of the rushdown type. A diverse map pool will give each and every player the opportunity to show their respective skills and help to ultimately decide the victor. Think of a game of poker - A strong player can make virtually any hand work for them, if they choose to.
With a relatively stagnant map pool such as this one, that aspect of the variables of competition are severely diminished. Imagine a poker game where every game the players had the same five or six different hands every single time. The excitement is lost in all but the most severe situations - map pools are much the same. A stagnant map pool will undervalue interesting and innovative play by blending it in with the rest, causing only the rarest of moments to really stick out.
A strong map pool that rotates on a relatively high frequency (not so high that players cannot practice the maps at all) will give you the best of both worlds - innovative and interesting play, and those mind-boggling astonishing moments that truly make SC2 the spectacular game that it is - for both players & spectators.In turn, the players & spectators will have positive things to say about your event overall and this will increase the value of your product.
I just don't get it man. MLG wants the most balanced maps they can find, but they're way too slow on the ball. MLG, this is me telling you: You can have your cake and eat it too. Other leagues do it. Why not you?
24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
I'm interested about this. Who are these eight players, and how will they qualify? KeSPA pros, perhaps? Everyone else has had a perfectly legitimate ability to qualify on their own merits. If the invites are along the lines of MC, NesTea, MVP, and IdrA, then I'm going to flip a table.
Also, ffs fix the map pool. Literally nobody cares about changing the pool mid-season. Every player knows the maps that you would be switching to, and in fact, nobody plays on some of the maps you've kept in. I don't know if this is about pride or ignorance, or what, but it's time to stop pretending like MLG is the only tour out there, and fix your map pool to remove Shakuras and Tal'Darim, and take the golds out of Antiga.
24 players–including the Top 16 from the Summer Arena and eight players that will be announced later–will start in Group Play. They will eventually be joined by the last eight Open Winners Bracket Players.
I'm interested about this. Who are these eight players, and how will they qualify? KeSPA pros, perhaps? Everyone else has had a perfectly legitimate ability to qualify on their own merits. If the invites are along the lines of MC, NesTea, MVP, and IdrA, then I'm going to flip a table.
Also, ffs fix the map pool. Literally nobody cares about changing the pool mid-season. Every player knows the maps that you would be switching to, and in fact, nobody plays on some of the maps you've kept in. I don't know if this is about pride or ignorance, or what, but it's time to stop pretending like MLG is the only tour out there, and fix your map pool to remove Shakuras and Tal'Darim, and take the golds out of Antiga.
I'd really like to know where this mentality as a whole came from. NASL, IPL, and MLG all have it. It's the silliest thing.
The fact that they stuffed the WCS NA Finals into this event is still ridiculously stupid. Just because they fixed the open bracket so there is no interference is no excuse to have both events concurrently. It puts the NA players who qualified at a serious disadvantage for both events as they are forced into playing games constantly until the late evening / very early morning. This shit shouldn't be tolerated.
EPT
, to see gold bases on Antiga and still Tal'darim in the pool. I mean really? Gold bases?!
The last 5 can be all foreigners if they want them so badly. 
