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On August 01 2012 01:50 Nimic wrote:
I think it's a given that the 8 invites will be Kespa players. I don't see how anyone can even consider otherwise. There's absolutely no way MLG imagines they can get away with directly inviting 8 players who had every opportunity to qualify for MLG the normal way. It's unthinkable. The only reasonable alternative is the Kespa players, particularly considering their partnership. Does anyone think the Kespa players would be traveling to NA/Europe to play in an open bracket like that?
Whether it's a good idea or not is a different matter. Looking at the top 16 from Summer Arena, I think the most interesting question will be if any Kespa player manages to not finish last in his "group".
Except that GSL prevented some of the strongest and most popular koreans from playing at the Arena. Most of which have proven that they can earn their top 16 spots at the Arenas.
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MLG the only major sc2 tourney that is using tal'darim.... don't understand why they are focusing on format changes when they can't just eliminate 1 or 2 bad maps.
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On August 01 2012 02:01 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 01:50 Nimic wrote:
I think it's a given that the 8 invites will be Kespa players. I don't see how anyone can even consider otherwise. There's absolutely no way MLG imagines they can get away with directly inviting 8 players who had every opportunity to qualify for MLG the normal way. It's unthinkable. The only reasonable alternative is the Kespa players, particularly considering their partnership. Does anyone think the Kespa players would be traveling to NA/Europe to play in an open bracket like that?
Whether it's a good idea or not is a different matter. Looking at the top 16 from Summer Arena, I think the most interesting question will be if any Kespa player manages to not finish last in his "group". Except that GSL prevented some of the strongest and most popular koreans from playing at the Arena. Most of which have proven that they can earn their top 16 spots at the Arenas.
There will always be players that for some reason or other can't attend a qualifying event. That doesn't justify giving them a free ticket to the front. It's absolutely the Kespa players, there's really no other explanation.
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It's obviously going to be the KeSPA players, and it's equally obvious that this is a bad thing for the competitive spirit of the tournament.
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Looks like everyone wants new maps! MOAR CHANGES PLZ!
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I like how TL always whines about fan-favourite invites in major tournaments.
What you guys fail to understand, is that fan-favourite invites make them major in the first place.
Tournaments without invites to players that draw a lot of eyes but could not/choose not to enroll in the qualifiers/ just fan favouritse will always get less vievers, sponsors, money and hence will always remain minor.
No tournament is stupid enough to diminish itself from being major to becoming minor. The invited players are invited for a reason.
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aaaaaaaahhrrr, how lazy and/or clueless can they be? Too many old and poor maps. Oh btw remove extended series, they're nasty!
The format changes may be neat, except if one side of the brackets happen to get more stacked than the other, but dunno if that would even happen with seeds from the arena.
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On July 29 2012 16:18 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote:
Why is everyone against extended series?
It prevents players from being kicked out eventhough they had a better record against the other player..
(e.g. someone winning 3-0 then loosing 3-2 has a record of 5-3 but is still kicked out by the other player...)
and why is 4 double elim. brackets better than pools? I mean it doesn't really make a big difference, but pool play is the best way to get objective results since you play against everyone in your group. You can get lucky alot easier in a bracket
I do not see a fairness argument in extended series. Players play, win or loose and than get into some place in the tournament.
Each has completed his path to get this place. Each has equal opportunity to win, so no extended series is perfectly fair.
What is even more, the better player already has more chances to win.
What extended series really makes, is that it makes the already low chances of worse player even lower, since not only he is less likely to win, but he also has to win more maps.
Hence, the extended series provides unfair advantage to one who won, handicapping the loosing player, and drastically decreasing the competition.
If you look at other major sports, The "extended series situation", for example can happen in finals Euro(football), but even if it happens, the teams would start at 0:0 initial score, not the one that they had when playing at group stages.
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On August 07 2012 07:27 naastyOne wrote:
I like how TL always whines about fan-favourite invites in major tournaments.
What you guys fail to understand, is that fan-favourite invites make them major in the first place.
Tournaments without invites to players that draw a lot of eyes but could not/choose not to enroll in the qualifiers/ just fan favouritse will always get less vievers, sponsors, money and hence will always remain minor.
No tournament is stupid enough to diminish itself from being major to becoming minor. The invited players are invited for a reason.
Really? I had no idea... You should be a tournament organizer.
I think many of us wants to see a good tournament were everyone has went through a fair qualification process with no priviliges just because player X is famous.
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On August 07 2012 08:34 Pjorren wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 07:27 naastyOne wrote:
I like how TL always whines about fan-favourite invites in major tournaments.
What you guys fail to understand, is that fan-favourite invites make them major in the first place.
Tournaments without invites to players that draw a lot of eyes but could not/choose not to enroll in the qualifiers/ just fan favouritse will always get less vievers, sponsors, money and hence will always remain minor.
No tournament is stupid enough to diminish itself from being major to becoming minor. The invited players are invited for a reason. Really? I had no idea... You should be a tournament organizer. I think many of us wants to see a good tournament were everyone has went through a fair qualification process with no priviliges just because player X is famous.
If people of your kind are so many, care to call a reason why there are no major tournament to please you, but there are so many (GSL, foreinger seeds to code S directly, IPL, MLG,..) to have invites?
And if there are many, why not to go and watch those and leave the "stupid, unfair, unsportmanship" evel tournaments with invites for people who like the invites+qualifiers format? 
MAybe non-invite tournaments do lack something? Maybe not enought prise money to attrackt the best players? 
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On August 07 2012 08:41 naastyOne wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 08:34 Pjorren wrote:On August 07 2012 07:27 naastyOne wrote:
I like how TL always whines about fan-favourite invites in major tournaments.
What you guys fail to understand, is that fan-favourite invites make them major in the first place.
Tournaments without invites to players that draw a lot of eyes but could not/choose not to enroll in the qualifiers/ just fan favouritse will always get less vievers, sponsors, money and hence will always remain minor.
No tournament is stupid enough to diminish itself from being major to becoming minor. The invited players are invited for a reason. Really? I had no idea... You should be a tournament organizer. I think many of us wants to see a good tournament were everyone has went through a fair qualification process with no priviliges just because player X is famous. If people of your kind are so many, care to call a reason why there are no major tournament to please you, but there are so many (GSL, foreinger seeds to code S directly, IPL, MLG,..) to have invites? And if there are many, why not to go and watch those and leave the "stupid, unfair, unsportmanship" evel tournaments with invites for people who like the invites+qualifiers format? MAybe non-invite tournaments do lack something? Maybe not enought prise money to attrackt the best players?
I do understand that big players attract a lot of viewers but I don't feel like we should encourage "major" tournaments to use invites. I think it stagnates the sc2 player base with the same players over and over.
I will still try to watch all the major tournaments even though they use invites. I just don't like it that's all.
There is a difference between popular players and good players. An invite only tournament might become a minor tournament if you look on player skill.
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On August 07 2012 09:20 Pjorren wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 08:41 naastyOne wrote:On August 07 2012 08:34 Pjorren wrote:On August 07 2012 07:27 naastyOne wrote:
I like how TL always whines about fan-favourite invites in major tournaments.
What you guys fail to understand, is that fan-favourite invites make them major in the first place.
Tournaments without invites to players that draw a lot of eyes but could not/choose not to enroll in the qualifiers/ just fan favouritse will always get less vievers, sponsors, money and hence will always remain minor.
No tournament is stupid enough to diminish itself from being major to becoming minor. The invited players are invited for a reason. Really? I had no idea... You should be a tournament organizer. I think many of us wants to see a good tournament were everyone has went through a fair qualification process with no priviliges just because player X is famous. If people of your kind are so many, care to call a reason why there are no major tournament to please you, but there are so many (GSL, foreinger seeds to code S directly, IPL, MLG,..) to have invites? And if there are many, why not to go and watch those and leave the "stupid, unfair, unsportmanship" evel tournaments with invites for people who like the invites+qualifiers format? MAybe non-invite tournaments do lack something? Maybe not enought prise money to attrackt the best players? I do understand that big players attract a lot of viewers but I don't feel like we should encourage "major" tournaments to use invites. I think it stagnates the sc2 player base with the same players over and over. I will still try to watch all the major tournaments even though they use invites. I just don't like it that's all. There is a difference between popular players and good players. An invite only tournament might become a minor tournament if you look on player skill.
So, do you have a tournament without invites that does provides at least same level of play as the invite+qualifier(like the mentioned IPL, GSL, MLG), to watch instead?
And if the answer is no, wouldn`t the logical conclusion be that invites do increase the overall tournament play quality?
So far, i`ve seen (only one) invite-only tournament, the Red bull Battlegrounds, and i liked it a tonne, and eagerly wait for next one.
The invite-only tournaments can be very good if done properly. That by no way means they should be the only format.
But so far, I do not see a lot of people that are complaining about the existence or lack of invite-only tournaments, nor do i see the complains of absence/lack off the hybrid, invites+qualifier tournaments, but I certainly can see a number of people that complain about the absence/lack of
tournaments that are qualifier-only.
Which certainly drawns the conclusion that there is something wrong with the qualifier-only format, that leaves the people that want it dissatisfied, by either lack of such, or the level of play displayed at such events.
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I voted 'Really Good!' for the map pool but it was by accident. The maps suck. Pretty sure 77 other people did the same thing;)
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Russian Federation483 Posts
@LiquidSheth @idrajit going to be posting an article before raleigh on why we use the maps we do, clear the air some. it won't address everything you guys have been saying, but will shed some light on why we do it this way.
Well, I hope that the reason is NOT "we want the best games possible."
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Dammit... they still have extended series ;;
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On July 31 2012 19:31 ichnaschekot wrote:
Wow, those maps are awful
Yup agreed on that one.
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51322 Posts
Bump, with 5 days to go until the tournament begins, no one still knows which KeSPA players are the 8 seeds for the group stage?
Either way, it's bad for KeSPA and their teams; they'll be super reluctant to send their star players away, especially with how tight Proleague is and the last week of games occurring the same time as MLG.
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On August 20 2012 16:56 GTR wrote:
Bump, with 5 days to go until the tournament begins, no one still knows which KeSPA players are the 8 seeds for the group stage?
Full player list coming by Tuesday at the latest looks like. Seems odd its that late considering how preemptive MLG can be sometimes
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On August 20 2012 16:56 GTR wrote:
Bump, with 5 days to go until the tournament begins, no one still knows which KeSPA players are the 8 seeds for the group stage?
I really doubt Kespa players will be coming because this weekend is the most important one in Proleague and will decide the playoff fate of most of the teams.
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EPT
