EPTHowever, since Blizzard often don't know what they're doing, it's probably just a nerf, and it's not a necessary nerf either. Cloaked ghosts and observer sniping is an important tool for Terran in lategame TvP, and this will weaken that.
Ghost Design Change Concern for HOTS - Page 3
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
However, since Blizzard often don't know what they're doing, it's probably just a nerf, and it's not a necessary nerf either. Cloaked ghosts and observer sniping is an important tool for Terran in lategame TvP, and this will weaken that. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
We don't know how long the cloak ability lasts yet. We don't know if there is a cool-down before cloak can be used again after being used. We don't know if you can use cloak while deploying a nuke. And guess what, these changes may not even make it to beta. | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:10 avilo wrote: I'd request the mods when they read this to ban the idiots that are posting below TL standards with their "fuck off" or "QQ" or "whine" I'd urge people to actually read the thread. If thorzain, jinro, or anyone else notable posted this you would not write it off before reading it. Do people want HOTS to be the best game possible? I certainly do, and yes, nothing is in stone, that does not mean it's not worth it to add in feedback/community feedback on things that will make the game better. Two things. First, I don't think thorzain or Jinro would make a post about this to begin with. Second, you're telling mods (it's their job isn't it?) to ban people for whining while you frame this as a balance whine yourself. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
I would put my efford into something more constructive to be honest... | ||
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Sikly
United States413 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:10 avilo wrote: I'd request the mods when they read this to ban the idiots that are posting below TL standards with their "fuck off" or "QQ" or "whine" I'd urge people to actually read the thread. If thorzain, jinro, or anyone else notable posted this you would not write it off before reading it. Do people want HOTS to be the best game possible? I certainly do, and yes, nothing is in stone, that does not mean it's not worth it to add in feedback/community feedback on things that will make the game better. To be fair, I read it without reading your name and wrote it off around 3/4's of the way through. It's a new expansion. This is a great change towards making ghosts much more of a strategy to use. If Terrans need buffed in other ways to compensate for the fact that ghosts are harder to use than we'll figure that out when we get to that point. This isn't a "nerf", as you put it, its a change in the way the unit is suppose to be played out. It is Blizzard saying that the game would be harder/more fun if they make ghost cloak more of a thought process than it currently is. The reason they are making the change during hots and not during a random patch is because it is likely to throw balance a little out of whack, and will need other changes to help things even up. Perhaps instead of saying that the ghost change is an unneeded nerf, you could discuss ways to make up for this change. One of the reasons respond to you like you do is because the way you write your opinions are very whiny and bitchy like. Thorzain or Jinro would never write this up, read through it, and decide it was OK to post. You need to present you argument in a little bit less of a biased manner. I'm honestly trying to help you here, not be mean. If you presented yourself in a little bit mature fashion, and made it sound less whiny and more of a legit complaint, than people might be able to read through your entire post before deciding it wasn't worth reading. I know you probably get very emotional over things like this, but you have to detach your emotions. When you try to do things like this with emotions it doesn't work very well. | ||
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RUFinalBoss
United States266 Posts
Avilo: in the 30 seconds of cloak does enerygy regan back to 200? | ||
Falling
Canada11607 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:16 FairForever wrote: It's okay, all the races got buffs and nerfs. Terran got buffed with the spider mine, zerg got nerfed since I believe the overseer is gone, etc. etc. -_- Complaining about balance in a game that hasn't even been played is laughable. Well I think it's bad because it limits player control as you have to wait for unit to do its thing. To me taking control away from players is objectively bad unit design and the balance part is irrelevant because it can always be rebalanced. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:18 Chocolate wrote: Two things. First, I don't think thorzain or Jinro would make a post about this to begin with. Second, you're telling mods (it's their job isn't it?) to ban people for whining while you frame this as a balance whine yourself. You're missing the point of the thread/issue/concern if you're discussing me to be honest. Discuss the material from the OP thank you. | ||
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darkgcn14
3 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:10 avilo wrote: I'd request the mods when they read this to ban the idiots that are posting below TL standards with their "fuck off" or "QQ" or "whine" I'd urge people to actually read the thread. If thorzain, jinro, or anyone else notable posted this you would not write it off before reading it. Do people want HOTS to be the best game possible? I certainly do, and yes, nothing is in stone, that does not mean it's not worth it to add in feedback/community feedback on things that will make the game better. ahh but the thing is, thorzain or jinro or anyone else notable wouldn't post this non-sense, your argument fails and so do you | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
Its obviously designed with one goal in mind. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:18 Chocolate wrote: Two things. First, I don't think thorzain or Jinro would make a post about this to begin with. Second, you're telling mods (it's their job isn't it?) to ban people for whining while you frame this as a balance whine yourself. And thats a bad thing. We want to encourage high level players on posting on forums, not just shit on them exclusively because of a bad title and a couple of trolls on the first page. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:19 draumr wrote: To be fair, I read it without reading your name and wrote it off around 3/4's of the way through. It's a new expansion. This is a great change towards making ghosts much more of a strategy to use. If Terrans need buffed in other ways to compensate for the fact that ghosts are harder to use than we'll figure that out when we get to that point. This isn't a "nerf", as you put it, its a change in the way the unit is suppose to be played out. It is Blizzard saying that the game would be harder/more fun if they make ghost cloak more of a thought process than it currently is. The reason they are making the change during hots and not during a random patch is because it is likely to throw balance a little out of whack, and will need other changes to help things even up. Perhaps instead of saying that the ghost change is an unneeded nerf, you could discuss ways to make up for this change. One of the reasons respond to you like you do is because the way you write your opinions are very whiny and bitchy like. Thorzain or Jinro would never write this up, read through it, and decide it was OK to post. You need to present you argument in a little bit less of a biased manner. I'm honestly trying to help you here, not be mean. If you presented yourself in a little bit mature fashion, and made it sound less whiny and more of a legit complaint, than people might be able to read through your entire post before deciding it wasn't worth reading. I know you probably get very emotional over things like this, but you have to detach your emotions. When you try to do things like this with emotions it doesn't work very well. Simply don't change it. It's that simple. | ||
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SickeL
110 Posts
There's no reason to complain about the balance of a game that isn't out yet, because metagame effects balance hugely; and until we understand the metagame, it won't matter. | ||
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Sikly
United States413 Posts
And that is why you fail at a fucking argument. That isn't how you discuss change. That is saying Blizzard is wrong, bitch wine bitch, don't change it. That is why no one takes you seriously. How the fuck are you suppose to argue with someone that won't even consider changing it? | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:23 draumr wrote: And that is why you fail at a fucking argument. That isn't how you discuss change. That is saying Blizzard is wrong, bitch wine bitch, don't change it. That is why no one takes you seriously. How the fuck are you suppose to argue with someone that won't even consider changing it? Um, Blizzard is wrong. There's really no reason for this change. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:20 Falling wrote: Well I think it's bad because it limits player control as you have to wait for unit to do its thing. To me taking control away from players is objectively bad unit design and the balance part is irrelevant because it can always be rebalanced. It reminds me of general sc2 micro/battle design, "If you gonna commit, there is no way out". You clicked cloak, you have to make this unit useful in 30 sec, the end. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
To be clear: - We don’t know how much long cloak will last for the energy cost. The flat cost could be more efficient and use less energy for the amount of time cloaked. - We don’t know what the cool down will be. If it is 10 in-game second, it shouldn’t have a huge effect on the game. - A flat cost allows terrans to know exactly how much it costs to use cloak and EMP together, which eliminates surprises. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:25 Plansix wrote: It is totally unclear if this will be a buff or a nerf. With a flat energy cost and timer on cloak, it could allow for a more controlled use of EMP in conjunction with cloak. Currently if you cloak a ghost, you run the risk of “running over” and into critical EMP energy. The change could avoid this and allow terrans to know exactly what they are getting when they click the cloak button. If the length of time the Ghost is cloaked is sufficient, this could be a way to make ghosts more useful and controlled. To be clear: - We don’t know how much long cloak will last for the energy cost. The flat cost could be more efficient and use less energy for the amount of time cloaked. - We don’t know what the cool down will be. If it is 10 in-game second, it shouldn’t have a huge effect on the game. - A flat cost allows terrans to know exactly how much it costs to use cloak and EMP together, which eliminates surprises. It gives less control to the user, which is bad. Every good player can manage their cloak energy properly, to the point that when you do send out ghosts to nuke you literally pick the ones that already have 100 energy pooled up. There is no risk of "running over" it's up to the player to manage their units. The proposed change is a bad change in the ways i've analyzed, and in the terms you are speaking of it's just a simple dumbing down of the game. | ||
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Dagan159
United States203 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:23 draumr wrote: And that is why you fail at a fucking argument. That isn't how you discuss change. That is saying Blizzard is wrong, bitch wine bitch, don't change it. That is why no one takes you seriously. How the fuck are you suppose to argue with someone that won't even consider changing it? If its not broke don't fix it. Is anyone talking about lategame Terran being OP? Not that I've heard. EDIT: For all the people bitching at avilo for making a topic about a game that hasn't hit beta yet I'd like to direct your attention to this topic about the purposed change to pylons where low pylons no longer power high ground structures/allow for warp in. Notice how not avilo created this topic, a discussion followed. Someone who has a past history of balance whine makes a legitimate topic, not different than the topic on pylons and this thread turns to shit over who made it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=278806 this is the thread im referring to, I don't suggest bumping it without good reason though | ||
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