EPTMech units are far more resistant to storm, and they bring builtin AOE. Especially if you don't end up even upgrading bio, why would you be making the production/ghosts.
Ghost Design Change Concern for HOTS - Page 22
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architecture
United States643 Posts
Mech units are far more resistant to storm, and they bring builtin AOE. Especially if you don't end up even upgrading bio, why would you be making the production/ghosts. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On July 31 2012 08:55 architecture wrote: An important point is that ghosts might see even less usage in HOTS. Mech units are far more resistant to storm, and they bring builtin AOE. Especially if you don't end up even upgrading bio, why would you be making the production/ghosts. For the new /cheer animation yo. You type /cheer and the ghost goes BOO and the opponent gets a heart attack. Free win, ezpz. | ||
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nakedsurfer
Canada500 Posts
On July 31 2012 08:47 cactusjack914 wrote: Considering the cost of ghost + cloak + nuke, it better not be too apm intensive if its gonna cost me that much gas to even make it a possiblity I find it ironic that terrans usually complain that they don't have a good gas dump and all of the sudden you think it could be a possible waste of gas. Nukes are great late game harass and it's not that micro intensive. you can easily shift cue it and forget about the ghost for a bit. With the change You just won't be able to cloak the ghost in your base and have it run through the whole map as easily. Terrans will have to drop them or kill some creep/overlords and then send them. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
I don't know if it's justified because there is a lot of variable that Avilo doesn't know. In the end, it's just a balance discussion without every factors. Pointless. Enjoy yourself, I sure do. | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
Until then all of the theory craft on why X,Y, or Z is going to 'break' something just seems unfounded. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On July 31 2012 10:37 Erasme wrote: It's not closed because everyone enjoy avilo's whine. After all, the guy said himself that he would be top 10western if he switched to zerg. (his stream) I don't know if it's justified because there is a lot of variable that Avilo doesn't know. In the end, it's just a balance discussion without every factors. Pointless. Enjoy yourself, I sure do. Lol nice. The guy isn't even top 10 foreign Terran, that's a pretty bold claim. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 31 2012 14:30 ZenithM wrote: Lol nice. The guy isn't even top 10 foreign Terran, that's a pretty bold claim. He's saying that Zerg is easier and more OP. His Zerg isn't anything special though (offrace). | ||
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Cinim
Denmark866 Posts
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Blade Fox
United States215 Posts
Please make a video about how unfair that is? Thanks. | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
The amount of ad hominem in this thread is just sad. A Shakespearean character once said (in Antigone I believe) "If I am young and right, what does my age matter?" Ad hominems just make the poster look like an unlistening intolerant douche and contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion. | ||
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PatouPower
Canada1119 Posts
HotS will almost be a completely different games. Of course basic mechanics will stick so it's not as big of a jump as BW > SC2, but there will be a lot of new units and mechanics for each race. Even if, at the moment, you don't see the reason for "nerfing" (it's not even really a nerf since it's gonna be better in some situations) the ghost, it doesn't mean there is none. When people get to play the game in the beta, we will see what's right and what's not so that Blizzard can fix the problems. Hell, that the purpose of a fucking beta. Why the hell we do have threads talking about the balance of a beta that isn't out yet blows my mind. | ||
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snakeeyez
United States1231 Posts
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1ManArmy
Netherlands895 Posts
Just play the game when it comes out, and then the big imbalances will be spotted and adjusted, just like it happened with sc2 . Adjusting the cloak system of the ghosts sounds not too difficult to buff/nerf if it is necessary. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 05 2012 06:18 PatouPower wrote: Why is this a thing to talk about a completely different game that isn't even in beta yet? Yes, the ghost is being changed, but everything will be changed too. If you told BW players 3/4 years ago that the siege tank in SC2 would do a lot less damage, or even the psy storm would do a lot less damage, everyone would have been like "it can't be, this would be so underpowered", but it's still what made the game balanced. HotS will almost be a completely different games. Of course basic mechanics will stick so it's not as big of a jump as BW > SC2, but there will be a lot of new units and mechanics for each race. Even if, at the moment, you don't see the reason for "nerfing" (it's not even really a nerf since it's gonna be better in some situations) the ghost, it doesn't mean there is none. When people get to play the game in the beta, we will see what's right and what's not so that Blizzard can fix the problems. Hell, that the purpose of a fucking beta. Why the hell we do have threads talking about the balance of a beta that isn't out yet blows my mind. lol those were the worst two examples you could have used... psi storm and siege tanks? Everyone would have believed it lol. | ||
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darkachu
15 Posts
you are fucking pathetic... User was banned for this post. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On August 05 2012 04:20 Cinim wrote: You cant call this a concern at all, frankly I'm sorry to tell you that the speculations of a single change is straight out stupid, you completely neglect every other change then, which all has a factor, the changes for both other races. How exactly is a change which clearly removes (or at least limits it severely by requiring a ton more attention) the ability to use a tactic connected with any other unit or unit change in HotS? Thus you CAN and HAVE TO actually look at it individually and it is a valid fully fledged concern. The change even nerfs the utility of Ghosts as part of a bio army due to the cooldown of cloak. So to screw the Terran you simply fake an engagement and then withdraw after the Ghosts use cloak; wait 30 seconds and then go for a real engage and no Ghosts will have cloak and you can focus them down easily. On August 05 2012 06:37 1ManArmy wrote: Just play the game when it comes out, and then the big imbalances will be spotted and adjusted, just like it happened with sc2 . Adjusting the cloak system of the ghosts sounds not too difficult to buff/nerf if it is necessary. Having cloak cost no energy and giving it a cooldown instead is a bad idea IMO because with an energy drain cloak you have to CHOOSE between using snipe/EMP and cloaking and you have to actually save up that energy. Having too much energy due to the cooldown change also adds more power to Feedback, which is too cheap as an instant killer spell already. So the disadvantages clearly outweigh the advantages IMO. "Just play the game when it comes out" is not really necessary to figure out how this change will affect gameplay and this statement - repeated in other words by lots of people in this thread - is something between lazy and stupid IMO, because the change really removes choices from players and make a unit clearly worse. Being able to use a key ability only once every 90 seconds (30 seconds duration + 60 seconds cooldown) makes that ability kinda sucky. | ||
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DeVx
United States98 Posts
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
Now, this would be ok if Blizzard were saying that they wanted to curb nuke harass play - but they're not. And as far as I can tell, mass nuke play isn't extremely problematic, and it certainly isn't common at the moment. This is intended as a buff to ghosts, not a nerf. So all of you people automatically hating on Avilo clearly don't understand the issue at all, and you're being extremely petty about not separating the person from the topic. On July 29 2012 05:30 Liquid`NonY wrote: The language Browder uses clearly portrays awareness of the strategic disadvantage of this change. It's impossible to inform Blizzard of what they already know. how about you quote where it highlights the disadvantages, because all I've seen is how this is intended to help players better manage their energy It's reasonable to assume that Blizzard believes it is necessary. It is extremely unreasonable to assume that Blizzard knowingly nerfed the ghost without overall balance in mind. If I were a Blizzard developer, I'd either be insulted by how stupid you think I am or simply laugh off how ridiculous you are. Either way this is an embarrassing installment for SC2's community. It's not unreasonable at all. They've demonstrated their "stupidity" several times before. You know what the reasoning for the Thor energy revert was? Mass Thor obscures other units.. what? And mass Broodlord or mass Carrier don't? Not only that, but the only match up where they fixed the "issue" was in tvp - in tvz or tvt, mass Thor obscuring other units is apparently ok. They have also admitted to not foreseeing issues with for example warpgate rushes and so on. Their design and balance process seems to be extremely "patchy" for lack of a better word. They do these small changes, where they sort of hope that they fix some issues, but they clearly don't know or don't have a larger goal in mind. For example the early issues with reapers and how it relates to the recent queen change. If they were always going to end up with a very powerful, defensive queen, why didn't they just go this route from the get-go? It's because they have no idea what they're going to do next, and they're just throwing things at the game and seeing what sticks. They aren't these all-knowing, forward-looking elite gamedevs you seem to think they are. They are pretty much the most generic, semi-talented group of devs in the business. They have a ton of developers that have basically grandfathered their way into Blizzard from joining in the early 90s. Guys like Metzen or Samwise, for example, would never get hired if they were just entering the business today. | ||
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Pazuzu
United States632 Posts
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
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