EPTnote- the longer it stays cloaked the longer the cool-down.
Easy.
Cool down for cloak is good change (its a buff) - this is coming from a Terran player
Ghost Design Change Concern for HOTS - Page 20
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SgtSlick
Australia92 Posts
note- the longer it stays cloaked the longer the cool-down. Easy. Cool down for cloak is good change (its a buff) - this is coming from a Terran player | ||
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Grapefruit
Germany439 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355234 | ||
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CrtBalorda
Slovenia704 Posts
On July 30 2012 09:00 Grapefruit wrote: Cool, when I made a thread to discuss this and another thing 4 days before this thread it got closed in less than 20 minutes. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355234 Well, yours isnt as beautifuly writen as Avilos. And he also made a video! ... | ||
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nakedsurfer
Canada500 Posts
On July 29 2012 19:05 DemigodcelpH wrote: Don't not comment on things you don't understand. This is absolutely a Ghost nerf. It's objective fact for several reasons outlined many times, and for you to actually call this is a buff is insulting to the readers of TL who have to put up with reading your post. As Avilo says: read before you write. Why are people writing things like this not getting bans? The reason mods aren't banning those is because of how Avilo wrote his thread. I imagine the original title was somewhere along the lines of "Blizzard is nerfing terran again". A mod changed the title to ghost design change concern. When he originally wrote the thread, I believe he was more focusing in on the nerf of the change rather than the design of it. He's also known to cry about balance even when terran was owning the GSL. That would be another good enough reason not to ban people for that because just about all his credibility is gone. I do believe the design of it is quite bad but perhaps it won't be as big of a nerf as people think it is. The game will change and they will tweak many things once it comes out just like they did in WOL. Perhaps down the road it could become a buff(I doubt it) but you'll never actually know until then. I would actually like this change if they did 2 things. If they made it so there no cost on cloak and became purely cooldown. But if they did that, they would need to buff snipe back up. Maybe not to 40 damage but to like 30. That way snipe is better and you'll need to cloak, snipe, and get out fast or you'll lose them all. you'll also have extra snipes since cloak won't take away from your energy. It would still take away from nuking bases but then it's more of a risk to reward then. It won't be cloak 5 ghosts, nuke 5 bases and run away keeping them all. The cloak change won't actually effect defensive nukes because there is no way the cloak will be that short of a period. Your army will be like 2 seconds away from the ghost. | ||
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CikaZombi
Serbia630 Posts
On July 29 2012 19:05 DemigodcelpH wrote: Don't not comment on things you don't understand. This is absolutely a Ghost nerf. It's objective fact for several reasons outlined many times, and for you to actually call this is a buff is insulting to the readers of TL who have to put up with reading your post. As Avilo says: read before you write. Why are people writing things like this not getting bans? The nerf is only related to Nuking and is actually a buff to combat EMPing and Snipe which is unnecessary in this particular way as it is. I don't agree with this change in it's core, because it limits, rather than expands the usage (or we are all just set in our ways too much and it's actually good) of ghosts, and everything like that is bad for the entire game. But to call it blindly a nerf, without accounting other spells of the ghost, nor the entirety of changes in the entire EXPANSION (not limited to Terran) is both stupid and biased which is exactly how people view the OP to be. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On July 30 2012 09:00 Grapefruit wrote: Cool, when I made a thread to discuss this and another thing 4 days before this thread it got closed in less than 20 minutes. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355234 Haha I love how chill closed it because "I don't think you need to open a new thread for two points" while this is open and for some reason very active with only one of those points ^^ | ||
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NoobCrunch
79 Posts
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
i wonder what it could be? | ||
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Picklebread
808 Posts
On July 29 2012 20:17 Champi wrote: Don't cry about being nerfed in a game that isnt even in beta yet. there will be new units, new designs, new maps, new strategies, and a lot of balance patches to go with them along the way. maybe it will end up being weaker than it is now, or maybe it wont. you don't, and CAN'T know. so give it a rest. you already piss off enough people with your sore attitude as it is. the state of the game could potentially be completely different in Hots than it is now. so stop chaos theory-crafting! What i do know for a fact is that you cant CLOAK and then GO ACROSS THE MAP and then NUKE A BASE. You have to put ghosts in dropships pretty much and drop them BY their base and then nuke. Im gonna wait for the beta to come out before i start bitching about how that works though theres really no way we can know what will ACTUALLY end up happening because like nothing is figured out yet. The one thing i will say is that a 22range air unit is BULL. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On July 28 2012 23:59 Rabiator wrote: Changing a unit in such a way as to make one of their uses less viable is a bad idea and Avilo gets ridiculed by tons of people here without his arguments being discussed. The question is: How do those intended changes "improve" the game? He explained his side of the story quite well, but the opposition is just saying "oh wait for the beta" and that is ridiculous. Nuke harrass is fun, but rare already and with such a change it will be extinct. Did he really ask for an improvement on the Ghosts or that they stay as they are? Complaining about nerfs isnt the same as asking for a buff. I hate to play semantics but fighting a nerf is comparable to asking for a buff. The OP acts as if Terran gets weaker by an oversight of Blizzard. His argument is ridiculous because the beta gets balanced anyway. It is not that the game would ship with underpowered terran because of an oversight. Does the OP really think that the alpha test don't see that it is hard to save a ghost once he called down a nuke? Even if somehow this would have been overlooked by the test team, it would be exposed in beta. And only with beta we as a community can begin to talk about overall balance which matters. Nony gave a very good explanation in this thread. We can assume that the Blizzard developers know what they are doing. The assumption of the OP about an unintended nerf can be assumed wrong. I might add, if the OP would be complaining about a new game mechanic regarding the ghost he doesn't like, it would be okay. (However then we could ask if we need a new thread for anything one doesn't like in HotS.) Your state "Changing a unit in such a way as to make one of their uses less viable is a bad idea" but you don't explain, why. Maybe in this case it is a good idea because the other uses of the ghosts are (in some way) buffed while only the most powerful use is slightly nerfed, perhaps fixing a balance concern? I am purely speculating here. Maybe the ghost change increases the viewer's experience because in the end he gets to see snipe more often, and a nuke calldown adds the excitement of the question if the ghost can be saved? I don't think a one-dimensional argument like "to make one of their uses less viable is a bad idea" captures the entirety of the concerns about such changes. | ||
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fairymonger
United States81 Posts
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Thune
Austria129 Posts
we seriosuly cant talk about that since the game isnt even in beta yet. | ||
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Asturas
Finland587 Posts
Not funny Blizzard! Indeed, this is terrible design change. I am impressed, I really was naive enough to believe that there is no way T will be nerfed more. I don't like this nerfes not because of me and my ladder performance. I am in Platinum, I am worst player ever and so on. But I am sick of watching almost excursively Zergs and Protosses in tournaments. Of course balance whining is not welcomed here, so I'll just shut up  | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On July 30 2012 17:32 Asturas wrote: haha... oh wait, it is no longer funny... oh wait, it wasn't funny since... a long time. I really hate seeing another and another "terrible design change". Not funny Blizzard! Indeed, this is terrible design change. I am impressed, I really was naive enough to believe that there is no way T will be nerfed more. I don't like this nerfes not because of me and my ladder performance. I am in Platinum, I am worst player ever and so on. But I am sick of watching almost excursively Zergs and Protosses in tournaments. Of course balance whining is not welcomed here, so I'll just shut up Then watch the GSL. Lots of terrans there doing well. We just saw one do awesomely at the GSTL finals.  | ||
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Shantastic
United States435 Posts
On July 30 2012 17:32 Asturas wrote: Indeed, this is terrible design change. I am impressed, I really was naive enough to believe that there is no way T will be nerfed more. http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Widow_mine Thought you might enjoy reading that. | ||
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Asturas
Finland587 Posts
On July 30 2012 17:37 karpo wrote: Then watch the GSL. Lots of terrans there doing well. We just saw one do awesomely at the GSTL finals. GSL/GSTL is a bad example - Korean Terrans are different. Korea is Terran. I am talking about NA/EU tournaments. Small and big, LANs and online events. But I guess this is thread about something else On July 30 2012 17:39 Shantastic wrote: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Widow_mine Thought you might enjoy reading that. I know that, but it is not impressive when You compare it to new units for P and Z. | ||
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
Chill out with this until proof is out after everyone has researched all options in HoTS. | ||
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Shantastic
United States435 Posts
On July 30 2012 17:42 Asturas wrote: I know that, but it is not impressive when You compare it to new units for P and Z. Umm no, it's pretty much the most powerful addition to the game. It's like the Spider Mine on crack. All I'm saying is that there's a whole landscape being reshaped. Be wary of getting hung up over a change that makes nuke harassment slightly harder, when your actual army composition is gonna be so well strengthened. | ||
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LavaLava
United States235 Posts
On July 30 2012 17:45 Kare wrote: No point in making any post about balance for a game that has not come out yet, not even the beta it out yet.. come on. Maybe the game will be completely different and you wont even use nukes lategame because other things are superior "counters" to lategame z/p. Chill out with this until proof is out after everyone has researched all options in HoTS. Despite the original title of this thread, it's not really a balance issue. It's that Nuke play is almost definitely going to see a sharp reduction if this change goes through, and it's hardly used at all anyway. It basically moves the cost of a nuke from 100/100 to 300/200 because the Ghost will almost always die after one nuke, if he even makes it in. The real issue is that you basically only have like 10-15 seconds of cloak to get into position and actually start the nuke timer. And the Ghost walks slowly. People just aren't going to nuke very often at all. If there are better lategame strategies, great, excellent, but then people will Nuke even less and less. Nukes are cool to use and to watch. They're incredibly entertaining, and rare, and this bad design change would take them almost completely out of the game. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On July 30 2012 17:53 Shantastic wrote: Umm no, it's pretty much the most powerful addition to the game. It's like the Spider Mine on crack. All I'm saying is that there's a whole landscape being reshaped. Be wary of getting hung up over a change that makes nuke harassment slightly harder, when your actual army composition is gonna be so well strengthened. Your argument is essentially because Ts are getting a strong unit that warrants one being gimped. Why this argument is terrible in the context of this change: this change is flawed in design conceptually rather than just an overdone nerf. There were many better ways to do the latter if it was warranted. If nukes were indeed too strong in conjunction with HotS units, a flat nerf to the damage done / AOE or it's cast time might have been better. This change risks gimping cloak nukes to Medivac energy upgrade status. | ||
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