EPTI really dont want my 15min 12 ghosts nukefest strat gone..
Ghost Design Change Concern for HOTS - Page 19
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its_Mamur2
Korea (South)46 Posts
I really dont want my 15min 12 ghosts nukefest strat gone.. | ||
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Sammex
Sweden38 Posts
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LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On July 29 2012 13:14 Flamingo777 wrote: Tyler actually had a point and indicated the flawed logic of the Replicant. Guess what unit isn't going to be in HOTS? And Avilo doesn't have a point, so ghost change will happen in HOTS? What? | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
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Brett
Australia3820 Posts
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TechNoTrance
Canada1007 Posts
On July 29 2012 11:39 U_G_L_Y wrote: Just like your rant when the concept of the Replicant was announced? (No unit stats, no tech tree, no playable demo, either.) I'm thinking of a word, and it starts with an H... Avilo has actual facts and replays to support his case that this is a bad design and makes nukes irrelevant. You had an animated drawing and some theory crafting to base YOUR rant on. Oh give me a break. It was entirely obvious the role of the replicant. There was no mystery about it. And it was clear to people like Tyler and others that it was a unit that was poorly designed and did not fit the protoss race. Blizz gave it a shot and decided that it didn't fit the game. The stats of the replicant don't matter, it does what it does. And what it does isn't good design for this game. That's all there is to it. Changing it's build time won't effect it being poor design will it? We don't have any clue why they are changing the ghost. Avilo is assuming it was a mistake. You know there is a chance that blizzard makes balance changes for a reason and thinks about the effects? Maybe after testing this change terran lategame was too strong and something needed to be changed? Who knows. Do you get the point now? We don't know why blizzard is doing this. Not yet. We did know the role of the replicant. I don't care what connection you have with Avilo, but no rational unbiased person would compare these things. | ||
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freakhill
Japan463 Posts
This change will just reduce the number of available strats. I don't think that from now on making manual things automatic/simplified is a good thing for gameplay. Independently of balance I think this change is bad design. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On July 29 2012 10:28 mockturtle wrote: Um, why? Because you're already used to them the way they are? Your entire thread was about "oh no don't nerf Terran they're too weak" or "I do this thing I won't be able to do anymore". At no point did you weigh the concept as if you were choosing them from scratch. Why not keep it unchanged? The unanswered question which all of those who critisize Avilo are not answering is: Why is having fewer viable options for a unit good for a game? "Other units" and "overall game balance" dont make sense as an answer here, because no one can replace the Ghost as a launcher of nukes, so no one can really fill his spot and the VERY RARE nuke harrass is made rather unuseable with a 30 second cloak. Dumbed down gameplay is bad and I doubt the Ghost is the right place to start straightening up the game. People can easily prevent nuke harrass by building detectors and static defenses, so they shouldnt even whine about that. | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
Stationary ghosts are always cloaked through camouflage as long as they don't use their standard attack. Thus move them cloaked, wait for the cooldown camouflaged, then move on, wait for the cooldown, nuke, cloak out. Or move them in position and use them to snipe passing stuff, then change position with the last 25 energy. | ||
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Cabinet Sanchez
Australia1097 Posts
On July 28 2012 04:59 avilo wrote: Let's first look at the current ghost cloak, and the proposed change: Current ghost cloak: -Initial one time energy cost of 25 energy, and then the ghost stays cloaked for the remainder of it's energy pool, uncloaking once all energy has been depleted. Proposed HOTS ghost change: -Initial one time energy chost of 25 energy. Ghost begins to regain energy immediately after the initial cost. The ghost now is on a cool down and will uncloak at the end of that cool down, and will be prevented from re-cloaking for certain amount of time. I don't play Terran and I'm a former balance whiner, complaining about Terran in the past (about 12 to 18 months ago) although I think for the most part, stuff is fairly balanced right now. Surprisingly I agree with you though, this change (if true) is ridiculous. The cloak shouldn't turn off after some arbitrary period, it should stay on when you want it to be on. There's other ways to tweak this but I don't think that's a good move and personally I'm not convinced it's really something which needs looking at in the first place. I think there might be other problems elsewhere. I hope your information is incorrect. Then again, it's not like a beta won't find if this is a ridiculous change and address that fairly quickly anyhow. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On July 29 2012 10:28 mockturtle wrote: Um, why? Because you're already used to them the way they are? Your entire thread was about "oh no don't nerf Terran they're too weak" or "I do this thing I won't be able to do anymore". At no point did you weigh the concept as if you were choosing them from scratch. Seriously, the game is getting a bunch of new units and will go through a host of balance changes through the entire beta. "Nerfs" and "buffs" don't work additively. Personally I always thought the way Ghosts/Banshees cloak (and in bw as well) was pretty stupid. Managing mana is kind of a nuisance to begin with on regular spellcasters, suddenly with the ghost method you have to weigh considerations like, how long do I need to be cloaked for? what am I going to do once I get there? will i have enough mana to do what I need to do? will I have enough mana to get out? they won't be generating mana during this period either... where will that leave me in 5-10 minutes? Managing a group of multiple ghosts makes this even more of a nightmare... The funny thing is, I would actually consider the change overall a buff. Ignoring the argument that it would be easier to handle the ghosts, they spend 25 energy in one go and then immediately start regenerating energy. This basically means that cloak becomes significantly more mana efficient. I guess from your perspective the only design changes that are acceptable is if everything stays exactly the same except for super simple buffs, like +20 dmg to all avilo units.. Don't not comment on things you don't understand. This is absolutely a Ghost nerf. It's objective fact for several reasons outlined many times, and for you to actually call this is a buff is insulting to the readers of TL who have to put up with reading your post. As Avilo says: read before you write. On July 29 2012 10:55 ImNightmare wrote: Can we just ignore this kid from here on out after this post? He is a blizzard forumer who constantly whines about balance. This game is not even in beta and he is already whining. Goodness.. Why are people writing things like this not getting bans? | ||
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n0ise
3452 Posts
On July 29 2012 05:30 Liquid`NonY wrote: If I were a Blizzard developer, I'd either be insulted by how stupid you think I am or simply laugh off how ridiculous you are. Either way this is an embarrassing installment for SC2's community. what does this even mean, blizzard devs/balance team fucking up and not even owning up to it wouldn't be a first nor a last | ||
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Chloroplaste
France281 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On July 29 2012 19:09 n0ise wrote: what does this even mean, blizzard devs/balance team fucking up and not even owning up to it wouldn't be a first nor a last Include the rest of his post and don't quote him out of context, maybe. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On July 29 2012 19:09 n0ise wrote: what does this even mean, blizzard devs/balance team fucking up and not even owning up to it wouldn't be a first nor a last LOL indeed. As if Blizzard always knows what they are doing. We "enjoyed" 5 rax reaper TvZ too much and infestors pwning everything (which was reverted). Point is: Blizzard has fucked up in the past, everybody needs to be aware regardless of what race they play not because it may happen, but because it has happened. | ||
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Champi
1422 Posts
there will be new units, new designs, new maps, new strategies, and a lot of balance patches to go with them along the way. maybe it will end up being weaker than it is now, or maybe it wont. you don't, and CAN'T know. so give it a rest. you already piss off enough people with your sore attitude as it is. the state of the game could potentially be completely different in Hots than it is now. so stop chaos theory-crafting! | ||
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CaptainSlow
Malaysia164 Posts
That said, the game isnt even out in beta yet. i guess avilo just wanted us to know earler. | ||
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Arkansassy
358 Posts
On July 29 2012 19:05 DemigodcelpH wrote: Why are people writing things like this not getting bans? That was my question and the answer I received was, in essence, that mods are afraid. That's all too sad. It's difficult for me to comprehend the mentality of those who simply come into a thread to bash its creator and offer absolutely nothing to the thread. It's likewise difficult to understand why it is that when someone suggests a possible flaw in the game that people can't discuss it without becoming vicious or making comments like "it's not even in beta yet." lol. Obviously, Blizzard's only concern whilst all this hate and hurt and injustice goes on between SC players, is "how much money will the game generate?" They could care less about any of you and basically care less about your opinions, unless those opinions will cost them money. There are potential flaws in HOTS, not just with Terran, and they will be worked out if Blizzard is aware of the flaws (world-wide flaws have been over-looked, by much brighter people). However, Blizzard will never know if someone doesn't speak up. So, once again, Avilo, thank you for bringing this to the attention of the community and for being strong enough to speak your mind despite the hate and small-mindedness of some of those in the community. Those who will, unfortunately, be unable to comprehend any of this. | ||
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U_G_L_Y
United States516 Posts
On July 29 2012 13:14 Flamingo777 wrote: Tyler actually had a point and indicated the flawed logic of the Replicant. Guess what unit isn't going to be in HOTS? So you're agreeing with me and not Tyler then. It is possible to identify bad design before even playing the game. That makes Tyler a hypocrite. I'm sure he'll appreciate you pointing that out. The new ghost design is simply a bad mechanic all around. It is possible for us to know this without the final release of the game. | ||
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