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On July 28 2012 21:37 warwick wrote:lol avilo, just jump ship off this awful garbage game like every other decent player already has. it will never be balanced for terran because blizzard just listens to all the whiny 13 year old bitches like the ones posting in this thread :/ come play LoL a game that actually takes skill and is balanced  it has way more tournaments and 4-5 times the viewers at any one time than sc2...sc2 will be dead in a year max cause of shitty design decisions by blizzard. u gotta sk8 User was banned for this post.
what did i just read lol
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On July 28 2012 21:37 warwick wrote:lol avilo, just jump ship off this awful garbage game like every other decent player already has. it will never be balanced for terran because blizzard just listens to all the whiny 13 year old bitches like the ones posting in this thread :/ come play LoL a game that actually takes skill and is balanced it has way more tournaments and 4-5 times the viewers at any one time than sc2...sc2 will be dead in a year max cause of shitty design decisions by blizzard. u gotta sk8 User was banned for this post.
Thanks man you gave me a good laugh
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Game not out yet.
Complain about balance anyway.
Imagine. The game goes out live. And this stuff is reverted back to old style in first month, since this change makes nukes pretty much unusable in high level play.
A bronze level Zerg goes dies to 5 nukes falling all over his bases. He looks at patch notes, comes here and starts another thread about "terran imba, buff zerg plz". You want this? I'd rather see the game clean and nice, rather than seeing a balance change every 3 weeks.
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I can't help but think this is an ingenious troll post or pure bannable QQ. Obviously you can't speculate on the balance of a game based on the change of a existing single unit without considering all the changes that will occur from the NEW units, for which we don't even yet have set skills/costs.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On July 28 2012 05:10 avilo wrote:
I'd request the mods when they read this to ban the idiots that are posting below TL standards with their "fuck off" or "QQ" or "whine" I'd urge people to actually read the thread. If thorzain, jinro, or anyone else notable posted this you would not write it off before reading it.
The thing here is, they WOULD NOT post this in the first place..
just say'n
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On July 28 2012 21:37 warwick wrote:lol avilo, just jump ship off this awful garbage game like every other decent player already has. it will never be balanced for terran because blizzard just listens to all the whiny 13 year old bitches like the ones posting in this thread :/ come play LoL a game that actually takes skill and is balanced it has way more tournaments and 4-5 times the viewers at any one time than sc2...sc2 will be dead in a year max cause of shitty design decisions by blizzard. u gotta sk8 User was banned for this post.
This post gave me cancer...
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It doesn't help that you used a video where you DID NOT know the change mechanics the ghost underwent from WoL to the HotS beta. I'm sure you wouldn't have mindlessly sacrificed and made terrible decisions with your ghosts had you known what you now know. Avilo, you are smart enough to try incorporating dropship ghost play, etc. I'd also think that it would be cool to lock down entrances to your base with mines, then when the enemy pushes, close the exits with some nukes. I think the nerf is intended and completely fine due to the massive amount of spacial control utilities terran has just received with the implementations of the mines. I believe that with the new utility of mines, offensive nukes have been buffed an although unexplored, incredible margin.
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On July 29 2012 02:13 yeint wrote:
This is a terrible thread, and not because of the content of the OP, but the idiotic, ad-hominem responses, including ones by pro players.
"The game isn't even in beta yet".
Well, duh. But this is an actual design change proposed by Browder/Kim. It seems completely terrible. You don't have to consider it in light of a yet-nonexistent metagame and its balance implications. Blizzard certainly isn't considering it in light of that, as they've removed entire units from the game since then. You can consider it in a vacuum, just like we did the Replicant and the Shredder, and say it's a fundamentally bad idea.
The earlier we have feedback and reasoned discussion about proposed design changes in the expansion, the better.
The character assassination and flippant dismissal of even the possibility of reasoned discussion is shameful and worthy of reddit, not TL.
I agree that early feedback is absolutely necessary; avilo has offered food for thought. Unfortunately, people have been given a forum where there's opportunity to lash out at someone, basically with little to no repercussions. If these people were wise, they would avoid reading threads posted by someone they dislike so as not to give them importance.
By the way, you realize that a great majority of TL posters are the same immature posters (including ~cough~ pros) that comment on reddit, right? It's a pity that mods feel "forced" to allow this type of behavior.
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I'm pretty sure they already know they are slightly nerfing the ghost by implementing that change. It's a game and it's changing very often.
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I suppose it's possible to figure out a way to keep the late game nuke.
The community has figured out these kind of changes before.
I mean Zergs figured out that multiple queens were really good at holding off early hellion pressure. Coupled with good overlord scouting surving into the middle game became doable.
Toss's figured out that double forge upgrades are really good to survive against MMM in the middle game. Not to mention how good warp prism harrass could be. Plus lots of Obs for scouting T.
Terrans can probably figure out a way to nuke without changing the Ghost into a 200/100 baneling by ourselves.
Right?
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Hilarious whine. it costs nothing but a scan to kill the ability to defend from ghosts no matter how many obs you have and they die automatically to vikings and or marines. TvP is a joke and this isnt really gonna help, you dont have to be cloaked to emp the entire protoss army and leave them at half health for the cost of energy.
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how about we wait for the game to come out before we start forming opinions on it?
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It is true that people should look at the message and not the messenger, but this is like a "boy who cried wolf" situation. You can't be surprised that people are not excited to hear a balance opinion from someone with a history of balance whining, immaturity, and BM.
This message should not be ignored because it is from Avilo, but this doesn't even become an issue if he works on his reputation.
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Srsly, i think its better this way why ?
1. When you want to Emp HT, you only need 25 energy to cloak, right now you need 25+ energy in cloak which is usually 10+ to get to the HT or on good spot to drop Emp, its ok if your ghost have 200 energy, but in Hots you will be able to cloak and emp with 100 energy and sometimes even happens to me that cloak burn my energy below 75 sec before i wan to emp which is the most frustrating thing to me.
2. You can still land nuke in cloak
3. To cloak ghost in hots should cost then 25 + 30s worth of energy which would be 1e*(30s/0.9energy per second)=33.33
total of 58.3, but it has CD that is true not really big tho, only thing you can't do is go with 200 energy ghost from your base to his cloaked and drop nuke, you will have to cloak by his base. And we don't even know the price to research cloak if its going down from 150/150 to 100/100 its awesome buff if u ask me :D
And yes i hope they won't change it because its in beta and its great buff if u ask me. I don't really use nukes much mybe that is why i like this change.
Edit: If you think he will see ghost from drop, well he can't notice if from minimap if u drop him can then inmidiately cloak him or drop at some edge where he has no vision.
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8748 Posts
The language Browder uses clearly portrays awareness of the strategic disadvantage of this change. It's impossible to inform Blizzard of what they already know.
Furthermore whether or not this change is unnecessary for balancing late game HOTS Terran is impossible for us to tell. It's reasonable to assume that Blizzard believes it is necessary. It is extremely unreasonable to assume that Blizzard knowingly nerfed the ghost without overall balance in mind.
If I were a Blizzard developer, I'd either be insulted by how stupid you think I am or simply laugh off how ridiculous you are. Either way this is an embarrassing installment for SC2's community.
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On July 29 2012 02:51 Kontrax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 21:37 warwick wrote:lol avilo, just jump ship off this awful garbage game like every other decent player already has. it will never be balanced for terran because blizzard just listens to all the whiny 13 year old bitches like the ones posting in this thread :/ come play LoL a game that actually takes skill and is balanced it has way more tournaments and 4-5 times the viewers at any one time than sc2...sc2 will be dead in a year max cause of shitty design decisions by blizzard. u gotta sk8 User was banned for this post. This post gave me cancer...
Indeed
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On July 29 2012 05:30 Liquid`NonY wrote:
The language Browder uses clearly portrays awareness of the strategic disadvantage of this change. It's impossible to inform Blizzard of what they already know.
Furthermore whether or not this change is unnecessary for balancing late game HOTS Terran is impossible for us to tell. It's reasonable to assume that Blizzard believes it is necessary. It is extremely unreasonable to assume that Blizzard knowingly nerfed the ghost without overall balance in mind.
If I were a Blizzard developer, I'd either be insulted by how stupid you think I am or simply laugh off how ridiculous you are. Either way this is an embarrassing installment for SC2's community.
Except they don't know this otherwise they would not be saying that the new change would make the ghost easier to use or better for players. I agree it's unreasonable to assume they knowingly were nerfing the ghost, which is why in the original post and OP you can notice I said they are most likely unintentionally nerfing the ghost cloaking and nuking capabilities in late game. It seems they only factored in energy conservation and making the game easier for lower level players.
From your first statement, I assume you agree with a lot of the points I've made here and that the change would be a strategic disadvantage aka a bad design/balance change for the ghost.
The only way in which this thread is an "embarrassing installment for SC2's community" is the amount of high profile players that have come into this thread resorting to ad hominem attacks, insults, and name calling without contributing actual input to the thread.
Otherwise, I think it generated a lot of good discussion and did bring to light a change blizzard was intending to put through that would not be good for the game.
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Very embarrassing. Even noobs to this site expect better.
They may be completely aware of the changes impact on the game but that doesnt mean its a good idea. Why cant we talk about this stuff on a forum dedicated to the game? Instead theres just MORE bashing. This has nothing to do with balance, it was said several times its a bad change regardless of match up. I actually wanted to see a good discussion on this. Even if there was no expansion coming we could still have a good discussion on things like this.
If blizzard said they were adding heroes to sc2 id like to see you all say "wait for the beta" and not theory craft or make posts about it. This sort of mentality just isnt good for discussion which i assumed was what this site was for. Im starting to wonder. Its more like lurkers waiting to jump all over anyone with any sort of opinion and its sad that this has been encouraged.
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Late game nuke play is entertaining, hopefully it will be an option in the game after HotS. They might want to think about reverting this change. Off topic, I hate when people try to sound smarter than they are, and fail.
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Why do blizzard "balance" things that are not a problem as of late......
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EPT
