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On July 28 2012 00:07 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 00:01 Marti wrote:On July 27 2012 22:39 Assirra wrote:On July 27 2012 22:37 trbot wrote:On July 27 2012 21:40 iRaYP wrote:On July 27 2012 20:58 Tantaburs wrote:
Question: If it is possible to switch models is it possible to make say the DT model the same as the Odin model so you can see it without detection. Cause if so then that seem like a reason to stop it. I would like this answered by the "pro mod" group Even if this is possible by modifying MPQ files, why does it matter? Someone can run any map hack and achieve the same effect (or one much stronger), and this map hack will NOT need to modify MPQ files to offer its functionality. You know this a major backfire on the whole point right? First it was "only good things come of it" and now its "yea you can do cheating with it but who cares, its possible otherwise aswell" Do you never lock the door since there always will be people who get it open anyway? Cause that is exactly what you are saying now. Right, because you can't see a dt without editing MPQ files ? You can't see an observer floating above your army ? It might not be easy but the WHOLE POINT OF THE CLOACK IS NOT TO MAKE IT INVISIBLE TO THE PLAYER. THE POINT OF THE CLOACKING ABILITY IS THAT YOU NEED DETECTION TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT. And frankly, when a drone dies, ( slashed by a DT ) you can see it can't you ? Yes, only good comes out of the freedom of modding, which, in SC2, is already fairly limited. And again for those who don't bother to read, this does not prevent maphacking. Did you really just compared the faint glimps you see of a cloacking unit compared to lets say a model swap to a battlecruser which is impossible to miss? Yea i am done here, people are simply delusional and desperate while ignoring the bad side of this.
Yeah dts and every other cloacked units SHOULD BE FAR MORE VISIBLE. The problem here isn't with the modding part, it's the game part. Why aren't those units more visible in the first place ? IF they were supposed to be invisible to the player THEN MAKE THEM INVISIBLE, instead of just very slightly visible. It's simple, no model instead of a model + an invisible texture. And IF they are supposed to be visible then make them a bit more visible, so you don't have to " guess " if there's an observer above your army, and can clearly see it if there is one.
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On July 28 2012 01:02 Marti wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 00:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 00:01 Marti wrote:On July 27 2012 22:39 Assirra wrote:On July 27 2012 22:37 trbot wrote:On July 27 2012 21:40 iRaYP wrote:On July 27 2012 20:58 Tantaburs wrote:
Question: If it is possible to switch models is it possible to make say the DT model the same as the Odin model so you can see it without detection. Cause if so then that seem like a reason to stop it. I would like this answered by the "pro mod" group Even if this is possible by modifying MPQ files, why does it matter? Someone can run any map hack and achieve the same effect (or one much stronger), and this map hack will NOT need to modify MPQ files to offer its functionality. You know this a major backfire on the whole point right? First it was "only good things come of it" and now its "yea you can do cheating with it but who cares, its possible otherwise aswell" Do you never lock the door since there always will be people who get it open anyway? Cause that is exactly what you are saying now. Right, because you can't see a dt without editing MPQ files ? You can't see an observer floating above your army ? It might not be easy but the WHOLE POINT OF THE CLOACK IS NOT TO MAKE IT INVISIBLE TO THE PLAYER. THE POINT OF THE CLOACKING ABILITY IS THAT YOU NEED DETECTION TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT. And frankly, when a drone dies, ( slashed by a DT ) you can see it can't you ? Yes, only good comes out of the freedom of modding, which, in SC2, is already fairly limited. And again for those who don't bother to read, this does not prevent maphacking. Did you really just compared the faint glimps you see of a cloacking unit compared to lets say a model swap to a battlecruser which is impossible to miss? Yea i am done here, people are simply delusional and desperate while ignoring the bad side of this. Yeah dts and every other cloacked units SHOULD BE FAR MORE VISIBLE. The problem here isn't with the modding part, it's the game part. Why aren't those units more visible in the first place ?
..cuz they're cloaked, not invisible.
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On July 28 2012 01:02 Marti wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 00:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 00:01 Marti wrote:On July 27 2012 22:39 Assirra wrote:On July 27 2012 22:37 trbot wrote:On July 27 2012 21:40 iRaYP wrote:On July 27 2012 20:58 Tantaburs wrote:
Question: If it is possible to switch models is it possible to make say the DT model the same as the Odin model so you can see it without detection. Cause if so then that seem like a reason to stop it. I would like this answered by the "pro mod" group Even if this is possible by modifying MPQ files, why does it matter? Someone can run any map hack and achieve the same effect (or one much stronger), and this map hack will NOT need to modify MPQ files to offer its functionality. You know this a major backfire on the whole point right? First it was "only good things come of it" and now its "yea you can do cheating with it but who cares, its possible otherwise aswell" Do you never lock the door since there always will be people who get it open anyway? Cause that is exactly what you are saying now. Right, because you can't see a dt without editing MPQ files ? You can't see an observer floating above your army ? It might not be easy but the WHOLE POINT OF THE CLOACK IS NOT TO MAKE IT INVISIBLE TO THE PLAYER. THE POINT OF THE CLOACKING ABILITY IS THAT YOU NEED DETECTION TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT. And frankly, when a drone dies, ( slashed by a DT ) you can see it can't you ? Yes, only good comes out of the freedom of modding, which, in SC2, is already fairly limited. And again for those who don't bother to read, this does not prevent maphacking. Did you really just compared the faint glimps you see of a cloacking unit compared to lets say a model swap to a battlecruser which is impossible to miss? Yea i am done here, people are simply delusional and desperate while ignoring the bad side of this. Yeah dts and every other cloacked units SHOULD BE FAR MORE VISIBLE. The problem here isn't with the modding part, it's the game part. Why aren't those units more visible in the first place ? IF they were supposed to be invisible to the player THEN MAKE THEM INVISIBLE, instead of just very slightly visible. It's simple, no model instead of a model + an invisible texture. And IF they are supposed to be visible then make them a bit more visible, so you don't have to " guess " if there's an observer above your army, and can clearly see it if there is one.
Yea . . . . . no . . . . .
Lol
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i like this model swap question, you just remove the cloak effect. Problem with file editing is that Blizzard doesn't know if it is something good or bad and can't check them by hand. While hacks are something not many write, making them easier to mass detect.
But if it really replaces just parts of the mpq file if it detects a change, they could actually whitelist parts of the files, that could be changed. Doubt they make this effort though and it would kill the stronger team color mod anyway, as it falls under the helps you while playing category.
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I don't know why you think seeing cloaked units is hard. It's not, no matter what the model size is. Besides, most people reflexively scan their army because they assume that there will be an Observer over it by a certain time. Being able to see invisible units isn't exactly a skill, nor is it something I think merits much reward.
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On July 28 2012 01:02 Marti wrote:
Yeah dts and every other cloacked units SHOULD BE FAR MORE VISIBLE. The problem here isn't with the modding part, it's the game part. Why aren't those units more visible in the first place ? IF they were supposed to be invisible to the player THEN MAKE THEM INVISIBLE, instead of just very slightly visible. It's simple, no model instead of a model + an invisible texture. And IF they are supposed to be visible then make them a bit more visible, so you don't have to " guess " if there's an observer above your army, and can clearly see it if there is one.
Hahaha what
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I think this thread would've been a lot better if you had put even one sentence about the other side of the issue - for example, why Blizzard are banning it, or what potential benefits there are. As it is, you merely state your own opinion and expect people to agree with it without giving them the information to make up their own mind.
Edit: Not saying that losing the mods that are cited isn't a blow, but its obviously not the only thing to consider.
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On July 27 2012 22:39 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:37 trbot wrote:On July 27 2012 21:40 iRaYP wrote:On July 27 2012 20:58 Tantaburs wrote:
Question: If it is possible to switch models is it possible to make say the DT model the same as the Odin model so you can see it without detection. Cause if so then that seem like a reason to stop it. I would like this answered by the "pro mod" group Even if this is possible by modifying MPQ files, why does it matter? Someone can run any map hack and achieve the same effect (or one much stronger), and this map hack will NOT need to modify MPQ files to offer its functionality. You know this a major backfire on the whole point right? First it was "only good things come of it" and now its "yea you can do cheating with it but who cares, its possible otherwise aswell" Do you never lock the door since there always will be people who get it open anyway? Cause that is exactly what you are saying now.
It's really not what you're claiming it is... It's very simple. Virtually every maphack in existence functions without touching MPQ files. When you make MPQ files impossible to mod, anyone using a maphack will say "trololo business as usual."
It's like saying don't bother locking the front door if you're missing the entire front facing wall of your house.
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Good for the game, that blizzard disables these cheats.
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On July 28 2012 00:06 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 00:01 Marti wrote:On July 27 2012 22:39 Assirra wrote:On July 27 2012 22:37 trbot wrote:On July 27 2012 21:40 iRaYP wrote:On July 27 2012 20:58 Tantaburs wrote:
Question: If it is possible to switch models is it possible to make say the DT model the same as the Odin model so you can see it without detection. Cause if so then that seem like a reason to stop it. I would like this answered by the "pro mod" group Even if this is possible by modifying MPQ files, why does it matter? Someone can run any map hack and achieve the same effect (or one much stronger), and this map hack will NOT need to modify MPQ files to offer its functionality. You know this a major backfire on the whole point right? First it was "only good things come of it" and now its "yea you can do cheating with it but who cares, its possible otherwise aswell" Do you never lock the door since there always will be people who get it open anyway? Cause that is exactly what you are saying now. Right, because you can't see a dt without editing MPQ files ? You can't see an observer floating above your army ? It might not be easy but the WHOLE POINT OF THE CLOACK IS NOT TO MAKE IT INVISIBLE TO THE PLAYER. THE POINT OF THE CLOACKING ABILITY IS THAT YOU NEED DETECTION TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT. And frankly, when a drone dies, ( slashed by a DT ) you can see it can't you ? Yes, only good comes out of the freedom of modding, which, in SC2, is already fairly limited. And again for those who don't bother to read, this does not prevent maphacking. So it is ok that one player gets an advantage just because he edited some file?
Exactly. I certainly don't want to continuously be looking for current/updated Mods just so I can remain at equal competitiveness with people who do use them. In fact, I don't want to *have* to use mods at all.
Just ask yourself this: Do they let people use Mods in tournaments?
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On July 28 2012 01:58 trbot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 22:39 Assirra wrote:On July 27 2012 22:37 trbot wrote:On July 27 2012 21:40 iRaYP wrote:On July 27 2012 20:58 Tantaburs wrote:
Question: If it is possible to switch models is it possible to make say the DT model the same as the Odin model so you can see it without detection. Cause if so then that seem like a reason to stop it. I would like this answered by the "pro mod" group Even if this is possible by modifying MPQ files, why does it matter? Someone can run any map hack and achieve the same effect (or one much stronger), and this map hack will NOT need to modify MPQ files to offer its functionality. You know this a major backfire on the whole point right? First it was "only good things come of it" and now its "yea you can do cheating with it but who cares, its possible otherwise aswell" Do you never lock the door since there always will be people who get it open anyway? Cause that is exactly what you are saying now. It's really not what you're claiming it is... It's very simple. Virtually every maphack in existence functions without touching MPQ files. When you make MPQ files impossible to mod, anyone using a maphack will say "trololo business as usual." It's like saying don't bother locking the front door if you're missing the entire front facing wall of your house.
Again, maphacking got nothing to do with this subject, stop using it to shove the blame on. I never ever mentioned maphacks.
What i mentioned were simply model swaps and what you could do with them.
Just because you can maphack doesn't make this kind of cheating (if you use it that way) fine.
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On July 27 2012 22:10 Denzil wrote:
How people can oppose modding I'll never know.
I oppose it from an e-sports point of view. I want to be sure everyone has the same client software.
I like what modders do for games like skyrim, but for SC2? Not so much.
If mpq editting makes DT's 100% visible that's more than enough already for me not to allow it.
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I'm not opposing modding so to speak, i think it is good, but you have to remember that Blizzard has to first and foremost make sure exploitation and hacks aren't coming through this, hence this change. It was probably found that some loophole or security problem came through with MPQ modding and while there are definite pros to modding, the cons probably outweigh them. What we CAN hope for however, is that blizzard implements something through their arcade, that allows safe modding by utilizing their tools which can set up modifications for you but are first run through their system. That or if it's something really good and universally touted like STC, they can implement it in the game under the options menu.
I'm sorry but allowing someone to have boxer on their loadout screen is cool and all, but if it means it can help take even 10 hackers off the ladder, then i support the security feature. I think a better solution to this rather than petition the MPQ re-update that will be occuring to ensure only authorized blizz files are used, is to suggest a means for you to change your screen/etc without having to modify the MPQ itself. like having a "load screen" folder that SC2 will default look to to load images, that blizzard could probably implement, and allow people who want customizations to continue to do so. As for the bigger mods like STC/etc, if you instead petition that the usefulness of certain mods should be implemented, you have a better chance. As it stands, simply telling blizzard to not go forward with this security update (cuz lets face it that's what this is about), so that you can continue to mod, it's just not going to happen. They don't want to stop you from modding, as evident from Browder himself stating that STC is cool, but their hands are tied here.
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It has been against the EULA/ToS since the beginning. If you really cared about the time you've put into it, you wouldn't have begun modding in the first place.
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Don't really care either way. Petitions mostly won't work, though :\ gl with it.
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If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack.
WoW was exactly the same when they cracked down on this, hackers were totally unaffected, modders were screwed. One of the main reasons i stopped playing WoW.
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On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack
stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject.
And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff.
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Forcing them to instead use one of the 50 noclip hacks you can find in 10 seconds on google.......
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I am up for anything that stops hacks from being implemented, even if mods like this need to be shut down. I know it's sad, and I wish it wouldn't happen...but I would rather have these shut down, than hacks plaguing the ladder. If Blizzard does do this, I hope they incorperate some type of color mod into the system for color blind people to use.
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If protoss models were like that Dark Protoss screenshot I'd like them more as a race, although it's obviously not good visibility for pros. Too bad this change will kill that, definitely something I'd DL.
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EPT
