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On July 28 2012 03:55 trbot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 03:52 Tom Cruise wrote:
.."pre-made MPQ hack", plz, just stop. It's been said a dozen of times now, it's not hacking when u modify MPQ files, it's modding. Modding means modify. It's 2012, hacks don't modify shit, they add. I think there are more important things than the choice of words. Fine. Substitute "MPQ mod" for MPQ hack. It literally has no impact on my point. For the last 40 years, hack has meant "modify" and "fuck with," so I don't know what you're arguing. If people think mods create a competitive advantage, it's not like you're going to avoid the stigma associated with the word "hack" by standing up for consistent representation under "mod." (1) MPQ mods can only modify visuals (2) Anything they can do that would give a real competitive advantage, readily available map hacks already do (3) No one uses MPQ mods to gain an advantage, because it takes hours to figure out how to mod things, and seconds to Google a pre-existing map hack (4) Essentially every map hack operates without touching any MPQ files (or any game files) Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 03:53 Kazeyonoma wrote:
and thus like I said, instead of requesting them NOT implement their new update tool (which is GOING TO HAPPEN for THEIR REASONS, whether it's because they don't want you modding things without them knowing, or becuase there is a security loophole (not necessarily maphacking okay?)) why not instead petition to have certain mods that are beneficial be implemented instead. What about future mods that will never get a shot at gaining popularity and catching Blizzard's eye? This seems a bit shortsighted.
I dunno why you're replying to me cuz that's what I've been saying all the time.
side note: you said it yourself, for 40 years it's been "modify" or "fuck with", well, today "hacks" and "mods" are two COMPLETELY different things and you must understand this.
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On July 28 2012 04:06 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:00 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:58 rastaban wrote:On July 28 2012 03:55 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:52 Tom Cruise wrote:
.."pre-made MPQ hack", plz, just stop. It's been said a dozen of times now, it's not hacking when u modify MPQ files, it's modding. Modding means modify. It's 2012, hacks don't modify shit, they add. I think there are more important things than the choice of words. Fine. Substitute "MPQ mod" for MPQ hack. It literally has no impact on my point. (1) MPQ mods can only modify visuals (2) Anything they can do that would give a real competitive advantage, readily available map hacks already do (3) No one uses MPQ mods to gain an advantage, because it takes hours to figure out how to mod things, and seconds to Google a pre-existing map hack (4) Essentially every map hack operates without touching any MPQ files (or any game files) On July 28 2012 03:53 Kazeyonoma wrote:
and thus like I said, instead of requesting them NOT implement their new update tool (which is GOING TO HAPPEN for THEIR REASONS, whether it's because they don't want you modding things without them knowing, or becuase there is a security loophole (not necessarily maphacking okay?)) why not instead petition to have certain mods that are beneficial be implemented instead. What about future mods that will never get a shot at gaining popularity and catching Blizzard's eye? This seems a bit shortsighted. But if it is allowed don't you think that people will then make a mpq file that gives and advantage and then release it? Blizard doesn't have the time to check all those things to see if some are hacks and some are not. Why on Earth would someone put hours into trying to publish some MPQ-patch that makes DTs visible when there are already map hacks that do the same thing? There's literally no point. Besides, if you "release" an MPQ-patch, it's not without 5 pages of instructions and a lot of time invested for the potential user. You can have a map hack running in 60 seconds with no brain. Then why do you lock your house people are able to get in anyway if they want.
That's exactly my point. Locking your house makes it harder. Removing MPQ-patches does not make it harder. That's already the difficult option. I'm arguing that if you're missing the entire front facing wall of your house, there's no point in locking the door. (The front wall is the protection against map hacks... the door is protection against MPQ patches.)
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On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject.
My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack.
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On July 28 2012 04:11 trbot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack.
You clearly don't understand that you can get an unfair advantage by editing mpq.
An advantage that is totally different from maphacking.
Here's another example:We shouldn't go after petty thieves, the murderers are way worse.
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On July 28 2012 04:08 trbot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:04 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:46 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2012 03:31 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:23 Magnious wrote:
I am up for anything that stops hacks from being implemented, even if mods like this need to be shut down. I know it's sad, and I wish it wouldn't happen...but I would rather have these shut down, than hacks plaguing the ladder. If Blizzard does do this, I hope they incorperate some type of color mod into the system for color blind people to use. For the 12093123089130289th time, modding has nothing to do with hacking. As for colorblind people, just up the vibrance of colors in your gfx settings. Modding and hacking essentially do the same thing. They alter the game for some desired effect, while people who mod don't intend someone to gain an advantage with the mod, the argument could be made some mods that have come out have the potential to be an advantage. Stronger colors for instance could technically be considered advantageous to the user of the mod vs someone without it. Is it meant to be a hack to gain an advantage no...but it could still be considered to potentially be an advantage granted without some form of scientific study of it's use it'd be impossible to know for sure. Whether or not blizzards removal of MPQ modding is intended to stop hackers probably doesn't matter. If anything with mods becoming more and more common the thing blizzard wants to prevent is mods becoming so prevalent that in the future you have to download mod X,Y, and Z to have the same advantages as someone using them. Which is not something under the TOS blizzard wants to be the case. Example: With World of Warcraft (using it as it's a blizzard title) Guilds who used multiple mods progressed arguably better then those playing with the base game. This of course earlier on in the game before blizzard implemented many of those mods with the base game. It really got to the point there was several mods for any class you basically had to have to be as good as the other guy. I'm sure this example is exactly what blizzard is trying to prevent happening with SCII. ..grr. NO. modding is when you modify existing game files. Hacking is bypassing security networks to add features to your advantage through INJECTIONAL or EXTERNAL access. when you REPLACE ONE VALUE WITH ANOTHER, i.e., stronger colors and model swaps, it's modding. You will NEVER be able to add any kind of content to MPQ files so it will never affect or be hacking. hacking is when you advance the existing firmware, i.e., u add features to your advantage. Stop making up and misusing terms. Firmware is an extremely specific thing. It does not mean adding features. Firmware is code embedded on EEPROM that must be flashed to be replaced. Hacking doesn't have the bizarre, narrow definition you give it. Just Google it and see how much of the world agrees with you.
plz read my previous comment again, because there's no way I'll go into an in-depth argument with you to explain, why I'm right, because I wouldn't be touching a subject as complex as "hacking" if I didn't know wat I was talking about. Also, it would seem that you reply to people a little faster than you can read, so perhaps you should read the comments again before you reply. that's a friendly tip, btw.
edit: removed a few words, I understand how sensitive mods can be, sry
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On July 28 2012 03:52 Tom Cruise wrote:Show nested quote +Why the heck would you invest dozens of hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? cuz messing with MPQ files won't get u banned, hacking will. Show nested quote +Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. .."pre-made MPQ hack", plz, just stop. It's been said a dozen of times now, it's not hacking when u modify MPQ files, it's modding. Modding means modify. It's 2012, hacks don't modify shit, they add.
a) No banwave has caught any hackers recently, even though the most popular SC2 hack has been free for months now and has a large userbase
b) In WoW blizzard identified key adt (map) files which were used by modders with ill intentions, for example the stratholme ones for mount runs
+ Show Spoiler +World\Maps\HellfireRampart\HellfireRampart_28_34.adt
World\Maps\PVPZone04\PVPZone04_30_29.adt
DBFilesClient\CreatureModelData.dbc
World\Maps\PVPZone04\PVPZone04_29_30.adt
World\Maps\PVPZone01\PVPZone01_32_29.adt
World\GENERIC\PassiveDoodads\ValentinesDay\ValentineBasket_01.m2
World\Expansion02\Doodads\Stormpeaks\IceShards\FrostGiantIceShard04.M2
World\AZEROTH\ELWYNN\PASSIVEDOODADS\Campfire\ElwynnCampfire.m2
World\Maps\PVPZone01\PVPZone01_32_30.adt
world\maps\stratholme\stratholme_38_25.adt
world\maps\stratholme\stratholme_38_24.adt
World\Maps\Kalimdor\Kalimdor_29_9.adt
world\goober\g_fishingbobber.blp
World\Generic\Human\Passive Doodads\BeerKegs\BeerKeg01_NoCollide.M2
World\Generic\PASSIVEDOODADS\DuelingFlag\DuelingFlag.m2
and had a no tolerance policy on modifying those files. No one would have a problem with blizzard enforcing that on us in Sc2 if its a real concern
In any case Blizzard arn't doing this because of wanting to stamp out mods its just a downside of the new streaming downloader, some way to toggle between the modern streamed downloader and the old fashioned patch file based one would be the best solution.
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On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject.
Ah, okay so you are concerned about DT model swap. What one could say "Yes it is a hole-we don´t want this" I am with you in the boat. Blizzard should try to stop this. But then again this "feature" doesn´t have to do with (big) problematic hacks that destroys complete strategies like maphack does. Neverthelees even minor things ( not talking about color mods these are must have in my eyes) that gives you an advantage should be shut down. (point)
BUT and here it comes: are you so narrow minded that you don´t see that modeling gives the community such much more. If moding is stoped many cool people that want to have other people more fun with this game are no more allowed to add features and cool stuff to this game. Features that are costless, community based and filled with the wishes of the customer. Not the wishes of money taking DLC or shit. If you stop that mpq are being abled to modify to an extense to fullfill modders and players dreams it all will be gone. That would be a very sad moment in my eyes for sc2.
Edit: Oh and one thing to note: I feel if modding get nuked before acutally isomething is happening about the real problems i feel it like a punch in the face as a customer. Because i can smell the next step to it.
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On July 28 2012 04:16 Tom Cruise wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:08 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:46 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2012 03:31 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:23 Magnious wrote:
I am up for anything that stops hacks from being implemented, even if mods like this need to be shut down. I know it's sad, and I wish it wouldn't happen...but I would rather have these shut down, than hacks plaguing the ladder. If Blizzard does do this, I hope they incorperate some type of color mod into the system for color blind people to use. For the 12093123089130289th time, modding has nothing to do with hacking. As for colorblind people, just up the vibrance of colors in your gfx settings. Modding and hacking essentially do the same thing. They alter the game for some desired effect, while people who mod don't intend someone to gain an advantage with the mod, the argument could be made some mods that have come out have the potential to be an advantage. Stronger colors for instance could technically be considered advantageous to the user of the mod vs someone without it. Is it meant to be a hack to gain an advantage no...but it could still be considered to potentially be an advantage granted without some form of scientific study of it's use it'd be impossible to know for sure. Whether or not blizzards removal of MPQ modding is intended to stop hackers probably doesn't matter. If anything with mods becoming more and more common the thing blizzard wants to prevent is mods becoming so prevalent that in the future you have to download mod X,Y, and Z to have the same advantages as someone using them. Which is not something under the TOS blizzard wants to be the case. Example: With World of Warcraft (using it as it's a blizzard title) Guilds who used multiple mods progressed arguably better then those playing with the base game. This of course earlier on in the game before blizzard implemented many of those mods with the base game. It really got to the point there was several mods for any class you basically had to have to be as good as the other guy. I'm sure this example is exactly what blizzard is trying to prevent happening with SCII. ..grr. NO. modding is when you modify existing game files. Hacking is bypassing security networks to add features to your advantage through INJECTIONAL or EXTERNAL access. when you REPLACE ONE VALUE WITH ANOTHER, i.e., stronger colors and model swaps, it's modding. You will NEVER be able to add any kind of content to MPQ files so it will never affect or be hacking. hacking is when you advance the existing firmware, i.e., u add features to your advantage. Stop making up and misusing terms. Firmware is an extremely specific thing. It does not mean adding features. Firmware is code embedded on EEPROM that must be flashed to be replaced. Hacking doesn't have the bizarre, narrow definition you give it. Just Google it and see how much of the world agrees with you. plz read my previous comment again, because there's no way I'll go into an in-depth argument with you to explain, why I'm right, because I wouldn't be touching a subject as complex as "hacking" if I didn't know wat I was talking about. Also, it would seem that you reply to people a little faster than you can read, so perhaps you should read the comments again before you reply. that's a friendly tip, btw. edit: removed a few words, I understand how sensitive mods can be, sry
You can't just pick meanings for words and try to convince the rest of the world that you're right. Here is a link so you can read about what firmware is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware). You'll notice that it doesn't sound anything like your definition. You'll also notice that on the Wikipedia page for hacker there are three different definitions, none of them more correct or incorrect than the other. You'd be wise not to throw terms around when you don't understand them (firmware), or to shove rigid definitions down people's throats when there are many accepted definitions (hacking). As for the distinction between hacking and modding, I'm glad you have a consistent model worked out in your own head, but not everyone will agree to the same definitions. I, for one, disagree with your assertion that modding means changing and hacking means adding. Chill out.
On July 28 2012 04:15 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:11 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack. You clearly don't understand that you can get an unfair advantage by editing mpq. An advantage that is totally different from maphacking. Here's another example:We shouldn't go after petty thieves, the murderers are way worse.
Please help me understand, then. What advantage are we talking about?
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On July 28 2012 04:26 Nachtwind wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. Ah, okay so you are concerned about DT model swap. What one could say "Yes it is a hole-we don´t want this" I am with you in the boat. Blizzard should try to stop this. But then again this "feature" doesn´t have to do with (big) problematic hacks that destroys complete strategies like maphack does. Neverthelees even minor things ( not talking about color mods these are must have in my eyes) that gives you an advantage should be shut down. (point) BUT and here it comes: are you so narrow minded that you don´t see that modeling gives the community such much more. If moding is stoped many cool people that want to have other people more fun with this game are no more allowed to add features and cool stuff to this game. Features that are costless, community based and filled with the wishes of the customer. Not the wishes of money taking DLC or shit. If you stop that mpq are being abled to modify to an extense to fullfill modders and players dreams it all will be gone. That would be a very sad moment in my eyes for sc2.
Yes I agree it would suck if you can't modify your background. but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
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On July 28 2012 04:27 trbot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:16 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 04:08 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:46 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2012 03:31 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:23 Magnious wrote:
I am up for anything that stops hacks from being implemented, even if mods like this need to be shut down. I know it's sad, and I wish it wouldn't happen...but I would rather have these shut down, than hacks plaguing the ladder. If Blizzard does do this, I hope they incorperate some type of color mod into the system for color blind people to use. For the 12093123089130289th time, modding has nothing to do with hacking. As for colorblind people, just up the vibrance of colors in your gfx settings. Modding and hacking essentially do the same thing. They alter the game for some desired effect, while people who mod don't intend someone to gain an advantage with the mod, the argument could be made some mods that have come out have the potential to be an advantage. Stronger colors for instance could technically be considered advantageous to the user of the mod vs someone without it. Is it meant to be a hack to gain an advantage no...but it could still be considered to potentially be an advantage granted without some form of scientific study of it's use it'd be impossible to know for sure. Whether or not blizzards removal of MPQ modding is intended to stop hackers probably doesn't matter. If anything with mods becoming more and more common the thing blizzard wants to prevent is mods becoming so prevalent that in the future you have to download mod X,Y, and Z to have the same advantages as someone using them. Which is not something under the TOS blizzard wants to be the case. Example: With World of Warcraft (using it as it's a blizzard title) Guilds who used multiple mods progressed arguably better then those playing with the base game. This of course earlier on in the game before blizzard implemented many of those mods with the base game. It really got to the point there was several mods for any class you basically had to have to be as good as the other guy. I'm sure this example is exactly what blizzard is trying to prevent happening with SCII. ..grr. NO. modding is when you modify existing game files. Hacking is bypassing security networks to add features to your advantage through INJECTIONAL or EXTERNAL access. when you REPLACE ONE VALUE WITH ANOTHER, i.e., stronger colors and model swaps, it's modding. You will NEVER be able to add any kind of content to MPQ files so it will never affect or be hacking. hacking is when you advance the existing firmware, i.e., u add features to your advantage. Stop making up and misusing terms. Firmware is an extremely specific thing. It does not mean adding features. Firmware is code embedded on EEPROM that must be flashed to be replaced. Hacking doesn't have the bizarre, narrow definition you give it. Just Google it and see how much of the world agrees with you. plz read my previous comment again, because there's no way I'll go into an in-depth argument with you to explain, why I'm right, because I wouldn't be touching a subject as complex as "hacking" if I didn't know wat I was talking about. Also, it would seem that you reply to people a little faster than you can read, so perhaps you should read the comments again before you reply. that's a friendly tip, btw. edit: removed a few words, I understand how sensitive mods can be, sry You can't just pick meanings for words and try to convince the rest of the world that you're right. Here is a link so you can read about what firmware is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware). You'll notice that it doesn't sound anything like your definition. You'll also notice that on the Wikipedia page for hacker there are three different definitions, none of them more correct or incorrect than the other. You'd be wise not to throw terms around when you don't understand them (firmware), or to shove rigid definitions down people's throats when there are many accepted definitions (hacking). As for the distinction between hacking and modding, I'm glad you have a consistent model worked out in your own head, but not everyone will agree to the same definitions. I, for one, disagree with your assertion that modding means changing and hacking means adding. Chill out. Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:15 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:11 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack. You clearly don't understand that you can get an unfair advantage by editing mpq. An advantage that is totally different from maphacking. Here's another example:We shouldn't go after petty thieves, the murderers are way worse. Please help me understand, then. What advantage are we talking about?
it's funny cuz the first line on wikipedia in the link that u sent me proves that I know wat I'm talking about. with all due respect, though, I won't waste a second more on you
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On July 28 2012 04:27 trbot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:16 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 04:08 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:46 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2012 03:31 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:23 Magnious wrote:
I am up for anything that stops hacks from being implemented, even if mods like this need to be shut down. I know it's sad, and I wish it wouldn't happen...but I would rather have these shut down, than hacks plaguing the ladder. If Blizzard does do this, I hope they incorperate some type of color mod into the system for color blind people to use. For the 12093123089130289th time, modding has nothing to do with hacking. As for colorblind people, just up the vibrance of colors in your gfx settings. Modding and hacking essentially do the same thing. They alter the game for some desired effect, while people who mod don't intend someone to gain an advantage with the mod, the argument could be made some mods that have come out have the potential to be an advantage. Stronger colors for instance could technically be considered advantageous to the user of the mod vs someone without it. Is it meant to be a hack to gain an advantage no...but it could still be considered to potentially be an advantage granted without some form of scientific study of it's use it'd be impossible to know for sure. Whether or not blizzards removal of MPQ modding is intended to stop hackers probably doesn't matter. If anything with mods becoming more and more common the thing blizzard wants to prevent is mods becoming so prevalent that in the future you have to download mod X,Y, and Z to have the same advantages as someone using them. Which is not something under the TOS blizzard wants to be the case. Example: With World of Warcraft (using it as it's a blizzard title) Guilds who used multiple mods progressed arguably better then those playing with the base game. This of course earlier on in the game before blizzard implemented many of those mods with the base game. It really got to the point there was several mods for any class you basically had to have to be as good as the other guy. I'm sure this example is exactly what blizzard is trying to prevent happening with SCII. ..grr. NO. modding is when you modify existing game files. Hacking is bypassing security networks to add features to your advantage through INJECTIONAL or EXTERNAL access. when you REPLACE ONE VALUE WITH ANOTHER, i.e., stronger colors and model swaps, it's modding. You will NEVER be able to add any kind of content to MPQ files so it will never affect or be hacking. hacking is when you advance the existing firmware, i.e., u add features to your advantage. Stop making up and misusing terms. Firmware is an extremely specific thing. It does not mean adding features. Firmware is code embedded on EEPROM that must be flashed to be replaced. Hacking doesn't have the bizarre, narrow definition you give it. Just Google it and see how much of the world agrees with you. plz read my previous comment again, because there's no way I'll go into an in-depth argument with you to explain, why I'm right, because I wouldn't be touching a subject as complex as "hacking" if I didn't know wat I was talking about. Also, it would seem that you reply to people a little faster than you can read, so perhaps you should read the comments again before you reply. that's a friendly tip, btw. edit: removed a few words, I understand how sensitive mods can be, sry You can't just pick meanings for words and try to convince the rest of the world that you're right. Here is a link so you can read about what firmware is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware). You'll notice that it doesn't sound anything like your definition. You'll also notice that on the Wikipedia page for hacker there are three different definitions, none of them more correct or incorrect than the other. You'd be wise not to throw terms around when you don't understand them (firmware), or to shove rigid definitions down people's throats when there are many accepted definitions (hacking). As for the distinction between hacking and modding, I'm glad you have a consistent model worked out in your own head, but not everyone will agree to the same definitions. I, for one, disagree with your assertion that modding means changing and hacking means adding. Chill out. Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:15 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:11 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack. You clearly don't understand that you can get an unfair advantage by editing mpq. An advantage that is totally different from maphacking. Here's another example:We shouldn't go after petty thieves, the murderers are way worse. Please help me understand, then. What advantage are we talking about?
Making models of invisible units more visible.
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On July 28 2012 04:29 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:27 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:16 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 04:08 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:46 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2012 03:31 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:23 Magnious wrote:
I am up for anything that stops hacks from being implemented, even if mods like this need to be shut down. I know it's sad, and I wish it wouldn't happen...but I would rather have these shut down, than hacks plaguing the ladder. If Blizzard does do this, I hope they incorperate some type of color mod into the system for color blind people to use. For the 12093123089130289th time, modding has nothing to do with hacking. As for colorblind people, just up the vibrance of colors in your gfx settings. Modding and hacking essentially do the same thing. They alter the game for some desired effect, while people who mod don't intend someone to gain an advantage with the mod, the argument could be made some mods that have come out have the potential to be an advantage. Stronger colors for instance could technically be considered advantageous to the user of the mod vs someone without it. Is it meant to be a hack to gain an advantage no...but it could still be considered to potentially be an advantage granted without some form of scientific study of it's use it'd be impossible to know for sure. Whether or not blizzards removal of MPQ modding is intended to stop hackers probably doesn't matter. If anything with mods becoming more and more common the thing blizzard wants to prevent is mods becoming so prevalent that in the future you have to download mod X,Y, and Z to have the same advantages as someone using them. Which is not something under the TOS blizzard wants to be the case. Example: With World of Warcraft (using it as it's a blizzard title) Guilds who used multiple mods progressed arguably better then those playing with the base game. This of course earlier on in the game before blizzard implemented many of those mods with the base game. It really got to the point there was several mods for any class you basically had to have to be as good as the other guy. I'm sure this example is exactly what blizzard is trying to prevent happening with SCII. ..grr. NO. modding is when you modify existing game files. Hacking is bypassing security networks to add features to your advantage through INJECTIONAL or EXTERNAL access. when you REPLACE ONE VALUE WITH ANOTHER, i.e., stronger colors and model swaps, it's modding. You will NEVER be able to add any kind of content to MPQ files so it will never affect or be hacking. hacking is when you advance the existing firmware, i.e., u add features to your advantage. Stop making up and misusing terms. Firmware is an extremely specific thing. It does not mean adding features. Firmware is code embedded on EEPROM that must be flashed to be replaced. Hacking doesn't have the bizarre, narrow definition you give it. Just Google it and see how much of the world agrees with you. plz read my previous comment again, because there's no way I'll go into an in-depth argument with you to explain, why I'm right, because I wouldn't be touching a subject as complex as "hacking" if I didn't know wat I was talking about. Also, it would seem that you reply to people a little faster than you can read, so perhaps you should read the comments again before you reply. that's a friendly tip, btw. edit: removed a few words, I understand how sensitive mods can be, sry You can't just pick meanings for words and try to convince the rest of the world that you're right. Here is a link so you can read about what firmware is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware). You'll notice that it doesn't sound anything like your definition. You'll also notice that on the Wikipedia page for hacker there are three different definitions, none of them more correct or incorrect than the other. You'd be wise not to throw terms around when you don't understand them (firmware), or to shove rigid definitions down people's throats when there are many accepted definitions (hacking). As for the distinction between hacking and modding, I'm glad you have a consistent model worked out in your own head, but not everyone will agree to the same definitions. I, for one, disagree with your assertion that modding means changing and hacking means adding. Chill out. On July 28 2012 04:15 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:11 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack. You clearly don't understand that you can get an unfair advantage by editing mpq. An advantage that is totally different from maphacking. Here's another example:We shouldn't go after petty thieves, the murderers are way worse. Please help me understand, then. What advantage are we talking about? Making models of invisible units more visible.
Are you aware that virtually every map hack does this?
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On July 28 2012 04:25 Iksf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 03:52 Tom Cruise wrote:Why the heck would you invest dozens of hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? cuz messing with MPQ files won't get u banned, hacking will. Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. .."pre-made MPQ hack", plz, just stop. It's been said a dozen of times now, it's not hacking when u modify MPQ files, it's modding. Modding means modify. It's 2012, hacks don't modify shit, they add. a) No banwave has caught any hackers recently, even though the most popular SC2 hack has been free for months now and has a large userbase b) In WoW blizzard identified key adt (map) files which were used by modders with ill intentions, for example the stratholme ones for mount runs and had a no tolerance policy on modifying those files. No one would have a problem with blizzard enforcing that on us in Sc2 if its a real concern In any case Blizzard arn't doing this because of wanting to stamp out mods its just a downside of the new streaming downloader, some way to toggle between the modern streamed downloader and the old fashioned patch file based one would be the best solution.
I'm sorry but what on earth does that have to do with the piece of text u quoted me.
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On July 28 2012 04:31 trbot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:29 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:27 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:16 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 04:08 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:46 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2012 03:31 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:23 Magnious wrote:
I am up for anything that stops hacks from being implemented, even if mods like this need to be shut down. I know it's sad, and I wish it wouldn't happen...but I would rather have these shut down, than hacks plaguing the ladder. If Blizzard does do this, I hope they incorperate some type of color mod into the system for color blind people to use. For the 12093123089130289th time, modding has nothing to do with hacking. As for colorblind people, just up the vibrance of colors in your gfx settings. Modding and hacking essentially do the same thing. They alter the game for some desired effect, while people who mod don't intend someone to gain an advantage with the mod, the argument could be made some mods that have come out have the potential to be an advantage. Stronger colors for instance could technically be considered advantageous to the user of the mod vs someone without it. Is it meant to be a hack to gain an advantage no...but it could still be considered to potentially be an advantage granted without some form of scientific study of it's use it'd be impossible to know for sure. Whether or not blizzards removal of MPQ modding is intended to stop hackers probably doesn't matter. If anything with mods becoming more and more common the thing blizzard wants to prevent is mods becoming so prevalent that in the future you have to download mod X,Y, and Z to have the same advantages as someone using them. Which is not something under the TOS blizzard wants to be the case. Example: With World of Warcraft (using it as it's a blizzard title) Guilds who used multiple mods progressed arguably better then those playing with the base game. This of course earlier on in the game before blizzard implemented many of those mods with the base game. It really got to the point there was several mods for any class you basically had to have to be as good as the other guy. I'm sure this example is exactly what blizzard is trying to prevent happening with SCII. ..grr. NO. modding is when you modify existing game files. Hacking is bypassing security networks to add features to your advantage through INJECTIONAL or EXTERNAL access. when you REPLACE ONE VALUE WITH ANOTHER, i.e., stronger colors and model swaps, it's modding. You will NEVER be able to add any kind of content to MPQ files so it will never affect or be hacking. hacking is when you advance the existing firmware, i.e., u add features to your advantage. Stop making up and misusing terms. Firmware is an extremely specific thing. It does not mean adding features. Firmware is code embedded on EEPROM that must be flashed to be replaced. Hacking doesn't have the bizarre, narrow definition you give it. Just Google it and see how much of the world agrees with you. plz read my previous comment again, because there's no way I'll go into an in-depth argument with you to explain, why I'm right, because I wouldn't be touching a subject as complex as "hacking" if I didn't know wat I was talking about. Also, it would seem that you reply to people a little faster than you can read, so perhaps you should read the comments again before you reply. that's a friendly tip, btw. edit: removed a few words, I understand how sensitive mods can be, sry You can't just pick meanings for words and try to convince the rest of the world that you're right. Here is a link so you can read about what firmware is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware). You'll notice that it doesn't sound anything like your definition. You'll also notice that on the Wikipedia page for hacker there are three different definitions, none of them more correct or incorrect than the other. You'd be wise not to throw terms around when you don't understand them (firmware), or to shove rigid definitions down people's throats when there are many accepted definitions (hacking). As for the distinction between hacking and modding, I'm glad you have a consistent model worked out in your own head, but not everyone will agree to the same definitions. I, for one, disagree with your assertion that modding means changing and hacking means adding. Chill out. On July 28 2012 04:15 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:11 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:
[quote]
stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject.
And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack. You clearly don't understand that you can get an unfair advantage by editing mpq. An advantage that is totally different from maphacking. Here's another example:We shouldn't go after petty thieves, the murderers are way worse. Please help me understand, then. What advantage are we talking about? Making models of invisible units more visible. Are you aware that virtually every map hack does this?
No, and why does that matter?
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On July 28 2012 04:29 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:27 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:16 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 04:08 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:46 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2012 03:31 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:23 Magnious wrote:
I am up for anything that stops hacks from being implemented, even if mods like this need to be shut down. I know it's sad, and I wish it wouldn't happen...but I would rather have these shut down, than hacks plaguing the ladder. If Blizzard does do this, I hope they incorperate some type of color mod into the system for color blind people to use. For the 12093123089130289th time, modding has nothing to do with hacking. As for colorblind people, just up the vibrance of colors in your gfx settings. Modding and hacking essentially do the same thing. They alter the game for some desired effect, while people who mod don't intend someone to gain an advantage with the mod, the argument could be made some mods that have come out have the potential to be an advantage. Stronger colors for instance could technically be considered advantageous to the user of the mod vs someone without it. Is it meant to be a hack to gain an advantage no...but it could still be considered to potentially be an advantage granted without some form of scientific study of it's use it'd be impossible to know for sure. Whether or not blizzards removal of MPQ modding is intended to stop hackers probably doesn't matter. If anything with mods becoming more and more common the thing blizzard wants to prevent is mods becoming so prevalent that in the future you have to download mod X,Y, and Z to have the same advantages as someone using them. Which is not something under the TOS blizzard wants to be the case. Example: With World of Warcraft (using it as it's a blizzard title) Guilds who used multiple mods progressed arguably better then those playing with the base game. This of course earlier on in the game before blizzard implemented many of those mods with the base game. It really got to the point there was several mods for any class you basically had to have to be as good as the other guy. I'm sure this example is exactly what blizzard is trying to prevent happening with SCII. ..grr. NO. modding is when you modify existing game files. Hacking is bypassing security networks to add features to your advantage through INJECTIONAL or EXTERNAL access. when you REPLACE ONE VALUE WITH ANOTHER, i.e., stronger colors and model swaps, it's modding. You will NEVER be able to add any kind of content to MPQ files so it will never affect or be hacking. hacking is when you advance the existing firmware, i.e., u add features to your advantage. Stop making up and misusing terms. Firmware is an extremely specific thing. It does not mean adding features. Firmware is code embedded on EEPROM that must be flashed to be replaced. Hacking doesn't have the bizarre, narrow definition you give it. Just Google it and see how much of the world agrees with you. plz read my previous comment again, because there's no way I'll go into an in-depth argument with you to explain, why I'm right, because I wouldn't be touching a subject as complex as "hacking" if I didn't know wat I was talking about. Also, it would seem that you reply to people a little faster than you can read, so perhaps you should read the comments again before you reply. that's a friendly tip, btw. edit: removed a few words, I understand how sensitive mods can be, sry You can't just pick meanings for words and try to convince the rest of the world that you're right. Here is a link so you can read about what firmware is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware). You'll notice that it doesn't sound anything like your definition. You'll also notice that on the Wikipedia page for hacker there are three different definitions, none of them more correct or incorrect than the other. You'd be wise not to throw terms around when you don't understand them (firmware), or to shove rigid definitions down people's throats when there are many accepted definitions (hacking). As for the distinction between hacking and modding, I'm glad you have a consistent model worked out in your own head, but not everyone will agree to the same definitions. I, for one, disagree with your assertion that modding means changing and hacking means adding. Chill out. On July 28 2012 04:15 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:11 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack. You clearly don't understand that you can get an unfair advantage by editing mpq. An advantage that is totally different from maphacking. Here's another example:We shouldn't go after petty thieves, the murderers are way worse. Please help me understand, then. What advantage are we talking about? Making models of invisible units more visible.
There arebthing that you only replace unit silouethe, so you will not see giant pink tree. It will be more distracted place aroundbthat unit
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On July 28 2012 04:29 Tom Cruise wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:27 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:16 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 04:08 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:46 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2012 03:31 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:23 Magnious wrote:
I am up for anything that stops hacks from being implemented, even if mods like this need to be shut down. I know it's sad, and I wish it wouldn't happen...but I would rather have these shut down, than hacks plaguing the ladder. If Blizzard does do this, I hope they incorperate some type of color mod into the system for color blind people to use. For the 12093123089130289th time, modding has nothing to do with hacking. As for colorblind people, just up the vibrance of colors in your gfx settings. Modding and hacking essentially do the same thing. They alter the game for some desired effect, while people who mod don't intend someone to gain an advantage with the mod, the argument could be made some mods that have come out have the potential to be an advantage. Stronger colors for instance could technically be considered advantageous to the user of the mod vs someone without it. Is it meant to be a hack to gain an advantage no...but it could still be considered to potentially be an advantage granted without some form of scientific study of it's use it'd be impossible to know for sure. Whether or not blizzards removal of MPQ modding is intended to stop hackers probably doesn't matter. If anything with mods becoming more and more common the thing blizzard wants to prevent is mods becoming so prevalent that in the future you have to download mod X,Y, and Z to have the same advantages as someone using them. Which is not something under the TOS blizzard wants to be the case. Example: With World of Warcraft (using it as it's a blizzard title) Guilds who used multiple mods progressed arguably better then those playing with the base game. This of course earlier on in the game before blizzard implemented many of those mods with the base game. It really got to the point there was several mods for any class you basically had to have to be as good as the other guy. I'm sure this example is exactly what blizzard is trying to prevent happening with SCII. ..grr. NO. modding is when you modify existing game files. Hacking is bypassing security networks to add features to your advantage through INJECTIONAL or EXTERNAL access. when you REPLACE ONE VALUE WITH ANOTHER, i.e., stronger colors and model swaps, it's modding. You will NEVER be able to add any kind of content to MPQ files so it will never affect or be hacking. hacking is when you advance the existing firmware, i.e., u add features to your advantage. Stop making up and misusing terms. Firmware is an extremely specific thing. It does not mean adding features. Firmware is code embedded on EEPROM that must be flashed to be replaced. Hacking doesn't have the bizarre, narrow definition you give it. Just Google it and see how much of the world agrees with you. plz read my previous comment again, because there's no way I'll go into an in-depth argument with you to explain, why I'm right, because I wouldn't be touching a subject as complex as "hacking" if I didn't know wat I was talking about. Also, it would seem that you reply to people a little faster than you can read, so perhaps you should read the comments again before you reply. that's a friendly tip, btw. edit: removed a few words, I understand how sensitive mods can be, sry You can't just pick meanings for words and try to convince the rest of the world that you're right. Here is a link so you can read about what firmware is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware). You'll notice that it doesn't sound anything like your definition. You'll also notice that on the Wikipedia page for hacker there are three different definitions, none of them more correct or incorrect than the other. You'd be wise not to throw terms around when you don't understand them (firmware), or to shove rigid definitions down people's throats when there are many accepted definitions (hacking). As for the distinction between hacking and modding, I'm glad you have a consistent model worked out in your own head, but not everyone will agree to the same definitions. I, for one, disagree with your assertion that modding means changing and hacking means adding. Chill out. On July 28 2012 04:15 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:11 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack. You clearly don't understand that you can get an unfair advantage by editing mpq. An advantage that is totally different from maphacking. Here's another example:We shouldn't go after petty thieves, the murderers are way worse. Please help me understand, then. What advantage are we talking about? it's funny cuz the first line on wikipedia in the link that u sent me proves that I know wat I'm talking about. with all due respect, though, I won't waste a second more on you
Which line is that? Is it "In electronic systems and computing, firmware is the combination of persistent memory and program code and data stored in it" (where you said "adding new features [to software]")? As for the other definition of hacker, presumably you're not talking about "[someone] who makes innovative customizations or combinations of retail electronic and computer equipment" (which sounds an awful lot like a modder).
By the way, I re-read your earlier posts, and you make a lot of random nonsense claims. You claim that you can't add new files to an MPQ file (but MPQ tools to do this have been available since early SC1 days, pre broodwar). You say people shouldn't bother spending "48 hours" "rendering models." Of course, anyone who knows what they are talking about will realize that you don't render models to place them in a 3D game. That's the game engine's job. You just export the model from 3dsmax, maya, or the like, and import it into the game's resources. Besides, even if you had been right to talk about rendering, producing a high quality still of a model takes seconds (not minutes or hours) on a decent computer. Next, you ramble on about replacing "VLC" files. What exactly are VLC files? Or are you just confusing yourself with VLC media player and its playlist format... lol... Oh, and then you talk about hacking by "injection" and "external access." Besides the fact that "injection" (really "code injection") is external access (whatever that means), I bet you don't even know what injection is, or how to do it. If you know your stuff, then put your money where your mouth is. Let's say I write a website and I design my database access scripts poorly. I give you a search form with poor validation and you want to break it. How do you hack it? Anyone who has any idea what they're talking about can answer this easily, and in very precise terms.
Just admit it. You have no idea what you're talking about. (I'll eat my hat if you prove me wrong, but that's not going to happen.)
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On July 28 2012 04:31 Tom Cruise wrote:
I'm sorry but what on earth does that have to do with the piece of text u quoted me.
cuz messing with MPQ files won't get u banned, hacking will.
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On July 28 2012 04:29 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:26 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. Ah, okay so you are concerned about DT model swap. What one could say "Yes it is a hole-we don´t want this" I am with you in the boat. Blizzard should try to stop this. But then again this "feature" doesn´t have to do with (big) problematic hacks that destroys complete strategies like maphack does. Neverthelees even minor things ( not talking about color mods these are must have in my eyes) that gives you an advantage should be shut down. (point) BUT and here it comes: are you so narrow minded that you don´t see that modeling gives the community such much more. If moding is stoped many cool people that want to have other people more fun with this game are no more allowed to add features and cool stuff to this game. Features that are costless, community based and filled with the wishes of the customer. Not the wishes of money taking DLC or shit. If you stop that mpq are being abled to modify to an extense to fullfill modders and players dreams it all will be gone. That would be a very sad moment in my eyes for sc2. Yes I agree it would suck if you can't modify your background. but the line has to be drawn somewhere.
You don´t understand. Complete Custom UI´s fanbased stuff.. gnar etc etc...
The parts of an MPQ that are concernd to give people a minor advantage are easily to shut down. They must be locked. Yes. But pls see a bit farther then just your keyboard.
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On July 28 2012 04:32 Roxor9999 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:31 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:29 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:27 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:16 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 04:08 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:46 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2012 03:31 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:23 Magnious wrote:
I am up for anything that stops hacks from being implemented, even if mods like this need to be shut down. I know it's sad, and I wish it wouldn't happen...but I would rather have these shut down, than hacks plaguing the ladder. If Blizzard does do this, I hope they incorperate some type of color mod into the system for color blind people to use. For the 12093123089130289th time, modding has nothing to do with hacking. As for colorblind people, just up the vibrance of colors in your gfx settings. Modding and hacking essentially do the same thing. They alter the game for some desired effect, while people who mod don't intend someone to gain an advantage with the mod, the argument could be made some mods that have come out have the potential to be an advantage. Stronger colors for instance could technically be considered advantageous to the user of the mod vs someone without it. Is it meant to be a hack to gain an advantage no...but it could still be considered to potentially be an advantage granted without some form of scientific study of it's use it'd be impossible to know for sure. Whether or not blizzards removal of MPQ modding is intended to stop hackers probably doesn't matter. If anything with mods becoming more and more common the thing blizzard wants to prevent is mods becoming so prevalent that in the future you have to download mod X,Y, and Z to have the same advantages as someone using them. Which is not something under the TOS blizzard wants to be the case. Example: With World of Warcraft (using it as it's a blizzard title) Guilds who used multiple mods progressed arguably better then those playing with the base game. This of course earlier on in the game before blizzard implemented many of those mods with the base game. It really got to the point there was several mods for any class you basically had to have to be as good as the other guy. I'm sure this example is exactly what blizzard is trying to prevent happening with SCII. ..grr. NO. modding is when you modify existing game files. Hacking is bypassing security networks to add features to your advantage through INJECTIONAL or EXTERNAL access. when you REPLACE ONE VALUE WITH ANOTHER, i.e., stronger colors and model swaps, it's modding. You will NEVER be able to add any kind of content to MPQ files so it will never affect or be hacking. hacking is when you advance the existing firmware, i.e., u add features to your advantage. Stop making up and misusing terms. Firmware is an extremely specific thing. It does not mean adding features. Firmware is code embedded on EEPROM that must be flashed to be replaced. Hacking doesn't have the bizarre, narrow definition you give it. Just Google it and see how much of the world agrees with you. plz read my previous comment again, because there's no way I'll go into an in-depth argument with you to explain, why I'm right, because I wouldn't be touching a subject as complex as "hacking" if I didn't know wat I was talking about. Also, it would seem that you reply to people a little faster than you can read, so perhaps you should read the comments again before you reply. that's a friendly tip, btw. edit: removed a few words, I understand how sensitive mods can be, sry You can't just pick meanings for words and try to convince the rest of the world that you're right. Here is a link so you can read about what firmware is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware). You'll notice that it doesn't sound anything like your definition. You'll also notice that on the Wikipedia page for hacker there are three different definitions, none of them more correct or incorrect than the other. You'd be wise not to throw terms around when you don't understand them (firmware), or to shove rigid definitions down people's throats when there are many accepted definitions (hacking). As for the distinction between hacking and modding, I'm glad you have a consistent model worked out in your own head, but not everyone will agree to the same definitions. I, for one, disagree with your assertion that modding means changing and hacking means adding. Chill out. On July 28 2012 04:15 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:11 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:
[quote]
This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have?
Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack. You clearly don't understand that you can get an unfair advantage by editing mpq. An advantage that is totally different from maphacking. Here's another example:We shouldn't go after petty thieves, the murderers are way worse. Please help me understand, then. What advantage are we talking about? Making models of invisible units more visible. Are you aware that virtually every map hack does this? No, and why does that matter?
Because you said MPQ patching will grant you an advantage that map hacking doesn't. In fact, map hacks already give you vision of invisible units (as well as a floating production tab showing your enemy's production).
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On July 28 2012 04:36 trbot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:32 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:31 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:29 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:27 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:16 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 04:08 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Tom Cruise wrote:On July 28 2012 03:46 Nerski wrote:On July 28 2012 03:31 Tom Cruise wrote:
[quote]
For the 12093123089130289th time, modding has nothing to do with hacking. As for colorblind people, just up the vibrance of colors in your gfx settings. Modding and hacking essentially do the same thing. They alter the game for some desired effect, while people who mod don't intend someone to gain an advantage with the mod, the argument could be made some mods that have come out have the potential to be an advantage. Stronger colors for instance could technically be considered advantageous to the user of the mod vs someone without it. Is it meant to be a hack to gain an advantage no...but it could still be considered to potentially be an advantage granted without some form of scientific study of it's use it'd be impossible to know for sure. Whether or not blizzards removal of MPQ modding is intended to stop hackers probably doesn't matter. If anything with mods becoming more and more common the thing blizzard wants to prevent is mods becoming so prevalent that in the future you have to download mod X,Y, and Z to have the same advantages as someone using them. Which is not something under the TOS blizzard wants to be the case. Example: With World of Warcraft (using it as it's a blizzard title) Guilds who used multiple mods progressed arguably better then those playing with the base game. This of course earlier on in the game before blizzard implemented many of those mods with the base game. It really got to the point there was several mods for any class you basically had to have to be as good as the other guy. I'm sure this example is exactly what blizzard is trying to prevent happening with SCII. ..grr. NO. modding is when you modify existing game files. Hacking is bypassing security networks to add features to your advantage through INJECTIONAL or EXTERNAL access. when you REPLACE ONE VALUE WITH ANOTHER, i.e., stronger colors and model swaps, it's modding. You will NEVER be able to add any kind of content to MPQ files so it will never affect or be hacking. hacking is when you advance the existing firmware, i.e., u add features to your advantage. Stop making up and misusing terms. Firmware is an extremely specific thing. It does not mean adding features. Firmware is code embedded on EEPROM that must be flashed to be replaced. Hacking doesn't have the bizarre, narrow definition you give it. Just Google it and see how much of the world agrees with you. plz read my previous comment again, because there's no way I'll go into an in-depth argument with you to explain, why I'm right, because I wouldn't be touching a subject as complex as "hacking" if I didn't know wat I was talking about. Also, it would seem that you reply to people a little faster than you can read, so perhaps you should read the comments again before you reply. that's a friendly tip, btw. edit: removed a few words, I understand how sensitive mods can be, sry You can't just pick meanings for words and try to convince the rest of the world that you're right. Here is a link so you can read about what firmware is (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware). You'll notice that it doesn't sound anything like your definition. You'll also notice that on the Wikipedia page for hacker there are three different definitions, none of them more correct or incorrect than the other. You'd be wise not to throw terms around when you don't understand them (firmware), or to shove rigid definitions down people's throats when there are many accepted definitions (hacking). As for the distinction between hacking and modding, I'm glad you have a consistent model worked out in your own head, but not everyone will agree to the same definitions. I, for one, disagree with your assertion that modding means changing and hacking means adding. Chill out. On July 28 2012 04:15 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:11 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:
[quote]
And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers.
It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. My point is that map hacks will do more for you, and there's little to no point in doing a model swap if you have a map hack. It's not changing the subject. I'm trying to explain that a map hack is strictly better than anything you're going to get from an MPQ-patch. Thus, there is no reason for anyone to want to use an MPQ patch to gain a competitive advantage when they can use a map hack. You clearly don't understand that you can get an unfair advantage by editing mpq. An advantage that is totally different from maphacking. Here's another example:We shouldn't go after petty thieves, the murderers are way worse. Please help me understand, then. What advantage are we talking about? Making models of invisible units more visible. Are you aware that virtually every map hack does this? No, and why does that matter? Because you said MPQ patching will grant you an advantage that map hacking doesn't. In fact, map hacks already give you vision of invisible units (as well as a floating production tab showing your enemy's production).
I never said that.
On July 28 2012 04:35 Nachtwind wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 04:29 Roxor9999 wrote:On July 28 2012 04:26 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:07 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 04:04 Nachtwind wrote:On July 28 2012 04:00 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:42 trbot wrote:On July 28 2012 03:15 Assirra wrote:On July 28 2012 03:13 Iksf wrote:
If you hadn't noticed maphackers are running unchecked anyway, no one would bother using a model edit to reveal DTs when they could much easier just use a maphack stop using this as a excuse really, it got nothing to do with the subject. And in wow it go to points where people simply removed walls out of dungeons enabling them to rush stuff. This is such a silly argument. It's FAR more difficult to mod MPQ files to make an invisible unit more visible than it is to just use a maphack. It's not an excuse; it's reality. No one mods MPQ files to do these things, because better tools already exist. If every hacker out there is already using tools that have nothing to do with MPQ modding because it's easier and more effective, what impact is preventing MPQ modding going to have? Why the heck would you spend hours trying to figure out how to make DTs or observers more visible by modding an MPQ file when you can spend 3 minutes installing a map hack that will accomplish much more? Even if someone else already did the work in figuring out what needs to be changed in the MPQs, it will take even an experienced MPQ modder FAR longer to set up a pre-made MPQ hack than to just download and install a point&click maphack. And once again you are dodging the issue and trying to shove the blame on maphackers. It does not matter it is easier in another way, what matters that it is possible to do dodgy stuff with just mpq. because you can´t have a maphack with just mpq is that so hard to understand? read again I NEVER MENTIONED MAPHACKS. What i mentioned was simple model swaps. Stop changing the subject. Ah, okay so you are concerned about DT model swap. What one could say "Yes it is a hole-we don´t want this" I am with you in the boat. Blizzard should try to stop this. But then again this "feature" doesn´t have to do with (big) problematic hacks that destroys complete strategies like maphack does. Neverthelees even minor things ( not talking about color mods these are must have in my eyes) that gives you an advantage should be shut down. (point) BUT and here it comes: are you so narrow minded that you don´t see that modeling gives the community such much more. If moding is stoped many cool people that want to have other people more fun with this game are no more allowed to add features and cool stuff to this game. Features that are costless, community based and filled with the wishes of the customer. Not the wishes of money taking DLC or shit. If you stop that mpq are being abled to modify to an extense to fullfill modders and players dreams it all will be gone. That would be a very sad moment in my eyes for sc2. Yes I agree it would suck if you can't modify your background. but the line has to be drawn somewhere. You don´t understand. Complete Custom UI´s fanbased stuff.. gnar etc etc... The parts of an MPQ that are concernd to give people a minor advantage are easily to shut down. They must be locked. Yes. But pls see a bit farther then just your keyboard.
You can't think of any arguments so you just insult me.
They are both by mpq editing if blizzard wants to allow custom backgrounds they will have to make a new system.
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