EPTOn July 16 2012 18:10 rd wrote:
Was referring to people who bought leveling services and then turned around and tried to use it as credentials to sell coaching. I could name several pros too who level/have levelled accounts. I'm indifferent, but if other people are gonna go apeshit then I'll just withhold them.
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 18:06 Yello wrote:
He did already name one and I personally have two guys on spec in the EU ladder. But I won't tell you the names until I know more about it. I don't want to start a witch hunt like in the maphacker thread.
On July 16 2012 17:58 rd wrote:
- Who cares about the EULA?
- Nothing stops GM players from maintaining multiple accounts in GM, whether it's a smurf account, a shared account, or an account they've been paid to level. What GM signifies to a semi-pro other than recognition is fairly irrelevant when the only tournament GM gets you into are blizzard tournaments. There are tons of problems with GM that supersede the very, very few accounts that people pay hundreds of dollars to get leveled. And I doubt it's what holds back semi-pros from stardom.
- Where do you suggest they advertise their services where they won't be banned/censored? And why do you assume ALL people who pay for/sell account leveling services are hackers? Those sites aren't the only avenue of business, just the most well advertised.
- Go ahead and name the people doing it.
If Naama IS actually leveling accounts for money, who the fuck cares? He wouldn't be the first, he won't be the last. What hes doing is between him, the account owner, and Blizzard. If Blizzard wants to ban him for it, so be it. Don't start another fucking witch hunt. Especially over something as stupid, trivial, and irrelevant as this.
On July 16 2012 16:29 Doodsmack wrote:
Who cares?
Now you might say, what's the big deal? After all, account leveling is not actually hurting anyone other than the person buying the leveling, because he won't really be able to play 1v1 again or else he'd get stomped. However I do think this is a "big deal", for the following reasons:
- It's against the EULA.
- It IS hurting other people. The semi-pros in high master who are struggling to break into GM, because GM does in fact provide recognition to players. Ideally GM should be the top 200 ladder players, and not littered with leveled accounts. Aspiring semi-pros are being cheated out of potential opportunities by the people selling these leveling services. Moreover, these leveled accounts basically go inactive save for some occasional playing by the leveler to keep the account from falling out of GM.
- The people most likely to buy leveling services are associated with hacking and botting communities. Indeed, many of the ads I mentioned are on hacking sites. These people are already willing to hack and buy new accounts to hack with, so it makes sense that they would pay for leveling. I believe the IMMvp account owner hacks in team games and plays with other hackers. Replay evidence here:
+ Show Spoiler +
- The people buying these services may even advertise coaching once they get into GM and make money off it. NMxBlazinT, for example, is notorious for having his account leveled each season, and he has an account on a prominent hacking site where he has advertised coaching.
- It's possible that the people acting as intermediaries between the pros performing leveling and the people buying the leveling keep a portion of the proceeds, similar to something like Gosucoaching. If this is the case, the proceeds are likely contributing towards the hacking communities and sustaining them further.
Who cares?
Now you might say, what's the big deal? After all, account leveling is not actually hurting anyone other than the person buying the leveling, because he won't really be able to play 1v1 again or else he'd get stomped. However I do think this is a "big deal", for the following reasons:
- It's against the EULA.
- It IS hurting other people. The semi-pros in high master who are struggling to break into GM, because GM does in fact provide recognition to players. Ideally GM should be the top 200 ladder players, and not littered with leveled accounts. Aspiring semi-pros are being cheated out of potential opportunities by the people selling these leveling services. Moreover, these leveled accounts basically go inactive save for some occasional playing by the leveler to keep the account from falling out of GM.
- The people most likely to buy leveling services are associated with hacking and botting communities. Indeed, many of the ads I mentioned are on hacking sites. These people are already willing to hack and buy new accounts to hack with, so it makes sense that they would pay for leveling. I believe the IMMvp account owner hacks in team games and plays with other hackers. Replay evidence here:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.sctemple.com/replay/260581/
- His team is ready and waiting for the attack that comes at 9:30.
- karaNICOLE looks through the fog of war at my drop at 16:50, and then Mvp is ready and waiting at his expansion and even moves SCVs away pre-emptively.
- One of his teammates here, FFSentries, has an account on a prominent hacking site where he asks for SC2 loss bots (revealed by Google search).
http://www.sctemple.com/replay/260996/ (very damning evidence here for IMMvp)
- Suspicious fog of war peaking by "skrillex", which the website can see is his the account's former name, @ ~2:30-3:30, 8:00-8:15 (VERY suspect, including looking @ hidden expo), 10:30-10:35, 15:13,
- His team is ready and waiting for the attack that comes at 9:30.
- karaNICOLE looks through the fog of war at my drop at 16:50, and then Mvp is ready and waiting at his expansion and even moves SCVs away pre-emptively.
- One of his teammates here, FFSentries, has an account on a prominent hacking site where he asks for SC2 loss bots (revealed by Google search).
http://www.sctemple.com/replay/260996/ (very damning evidence here for IMMvp)
- Suspicious fog of war peaking by "skrillex", which the website can see is his the account's former name, @ ~2:30-3:30, 8:00-8:15 (VERY suspect, including looking @ hidden expo), 10:30-10:35, 15:13,
- The people buying these services may even advertise coaching once they get into GM and make money off it. NMxBlazinT, for example, is notorious for having his account leveled each season, and he has an account on a prominent hacking site where he has advertised coaching.
- It's possible that the people acting as intermediaries between the pros performing leveling and the people buying the leveling keep a portion of the proceeds, similar to something like Gosucoaching. If this is the case, the proceeds are likely contributing towards the hacking communities and sustaining them further.
- Who cares about the EULA?
- Nothing stops GM players from maintaining multiple accounts in GM, whether it's a smurf account, a shared account, or an account they've been paid to level. What GM signifies to a semi-pro other than recognition is fairly irrelevant when the only tournament GM gets you into are blizzard tournaments. There are tons of problems with GM that supersede the very, very few accounts that people pay hundreds of dollars to get leveled. And I doubt it's what holds back semi-pros from stardom.
- Where do you suggest they advertise their services where they won't be banned/censored? And why do you assume ALL people who pay for/sell account leveling services are hackers? Those sites aren't the only avenue of business, just the most well advertised.
- Go ahead and name the people doing it.
If Naama IS actually leveling accounts for money, who the fuck cares? He wouldn't be the first, he won't be the last. What hes doing is between him, the account owner, and Blizzard. If Blizzard wants to ban him for it, so be it. Don't start another fucking witch hunt. Especially over something as stupid, trivial, and irrelevant as this.
He did already name one and I personally have two guys on spec in the EU ladder. But I won't tell you the names until I know more about it. I don't want to start a witch hunt like in the maphacker thread.
Was referring to people who bought leveling services and then turned around and tried to use it as credentials to sell coaching. I could name several pros too who level/have levelled accounts. I'm indifferent, but if other people are gonna go apeshit then I'll just withhold them.
Yes, I was referring to people getting their accounts leveled and then offering coaching. I think there are some of those guys on the EU ladder, offering coaching for example in the teamliquid chat channel. I don't know if they take money for it but I fear they do.
