On July 12 2012 04:27 procrastibation wrote: The lurker shits all over the swarm host. lurker actually have an attack and is micro-able. swarm host is just another easy to use no control needed unit that will have no trouble fitting into the sc2 hall of fame with the colossus, marauder, and destructible rocks.
but srsly swarm host is totally dumb. all it does is spawn a broodling once every few seconds, which takes 2+ seconds to walk over the the enemy units to start attacking. idk i mean unless you're opponent is retarded or doesn't know how to use sentries, they will just run away or block the broodlings with force fields.
I would love to have means to force the protoss to waste sentry energy without sacrificing anything in return... Voila!
I love the lurker, but the lurker fit well in SC:BW not in SC2. They tried, but there are much more exciting new units. Now we have another one, which increase the metagame deep and complexity. We should be interested and excited.
Also, if you think the host cannot be microed, you are just wrong.
So how you want to micro burrowed unit that is unable to move and spawns 1 broodling-eque unit every 25seconds?.. With luker you can do focus fire to maximize the damage output or hold fire to set up traps and such ..
Stop crying for the lurker guys. Blizzard aren't going to make BW 2.0. You'd better help them how to improve the swarm host. Plus, the lurker contain vs P was a bit overpowered. By the time you had enough forces + obs, the zerg boosted his eco.
On July 12 2012 04:27 procrastibation wrote: The lurker shits all over the swarm host. lurker actually have an attack and is micro-able. swarm host is just another easy to use no control needed unit that will have no trouble fitting into the sc2 hall of fame with the colossus, marauder, and destructible rocks.
but srsly swarm host is totally dumb. all it does is spawn a broodling once every few seconds, which takes 2+ seconds to walk over the the enemy units to start attacking. idk i mean unless you're opponent is retarded or doesn't know how to use sentries, they will just run away or block the broodlings with force fields.
I would love to have means to force the protoss to waste sentry energy without sacrificing anything in return... Voila!
I love the lurker, but the lurker fit well in SC:BW not in SC2. They tried, but there are much more exciting new units. Now we have another one, which increase the metagame deep and complexity. We should be interested and excited.
Also, if you think the host cannot be microed, you are just wrong.
So how you want to micro burrowed unit that is unable to move and spawns 1 broodling-eque unit every 25seconds?.. With luker you can do focus fire to maximize the damage output or hold fire to set up traps and such ..
you have a bunch of units that live 15 or 25 sec to micro, a unit that is burrowed and needs its rally point reset constantly to spawn the units towards the opponent in a battle and well, if you leave the swarm host burrowed to just spawn units every 25sec, then you are hopefully sieging and opponent. But if you rather want to battle, you need to unburrow it all the time to not waste their next spawn. The concept alone is - though not supermicroheavy - superattentionheavy. It's a unit you want to control all the time, because it has the possibility to do stuff all the time. Of course, there is the possibility that blizzard balances it in a way, that it is best to just keep it burrowed and rally units out, but Im pretty sure that with 25sec intervalls, it will be very important to keep it unburrowed a lot of times and only burrow just in time. (Im also interested, wether it is possible to burrow it and unburrow it BEFORE the locusts hatch, so that if an enemy wants to attack you, you burrow he turns around and you unburrow, you dont lose the spawn)
This unit has sooo much potential and as I said, when balanced right it should always be active - which is one of the best features that a unit can have designwise.
I really like that Blizzard try to add new units and mechanics to the game but in this instance, I think the lurker would fit better. Not only because it has the line of attack that forces some micro out of your opponent, but also because it would make the tech tree much more fluent for zergs in HotS. Blizzard have already revealed their intentions of making the hydralisk a more viable unit to use, so why not add the option of morphing those hydras to lurkers later on in the game? The swarm host seems to appear out of nowhere in the tech and lurkers would therefore be a more smooth transition, becoming a natural follow-up to the harassment heavy hydralisk play.
I dont see how lurkers are that good now that we have walking and running line damage like hellions and collossus. It would have to be something ridiculous like a 10-13 range attack to even be worth making. The swarm host is an ugly unit but it seems easier to adjust than the lurker cos they already have the broodlord to test it against.
I kinda like the Swarm Host and it feels like it will enable new strategies and playstyles, similar to what a Lurker might offer. Like early manual Laber drops into a base (circumvent Cannons for example, which gives the Zerg a nice pressure-strat against greedy tosses that skip Obs), or some kind of contain with creep, spines and some spores (to kill off Observers) and Swarm Hosts in front of a 2 or 3 base Protoss with constant pressure applied by the Swarm Host. It also offers some defensive capabilities that force an opponent to have detection when pushing.
I think though, that the Lurker would also offer these possibilities, but has a bit more other utilities and seems stronger, because he'd most likely deal more DMG in a shorter amount of time, rather than pressure-DMG over a longer period of time.
TL:DR: I like the Swarm Host, but I like the Lurker more.
On July 12 2012 04:27 procrastibation wrote: The lurker shits all over the swarm host. lurker actually have an attack and is micro-able. swarm host is just another easy to use no control needed unit that will have no trouble fitting into the sc2 hall of fame with the colossus, marauder, and destructible rocks.
but srsly swarm host is totally dumb. all it does is spawn a broodling once every few seconds, which takes 2+ seconds to walk over the the enemy units to start attacking. idk i mean unless you're opponent is retarded or doesn't know how to use sentries, they will just run away or block the broodlings with force fields.
I would love to have means to force the protoss to waste sentry energy without sacrificing anything in return... Voila!
I love the lurker, but the lurker fit well in SC:BW not in SC2. They tried, but there are much more exciting new units. Now we have another one, which increase the metagame deep and complexity. We should be interested and excited.
Also, if you think the host cannot be microed, you are just wrong.
How tue fuck is a unit that just spawns 1-2 "mini-hydras" every XX seconds exciting? It's like the most boring concept imaginable.
And which unit in SC2 is exatly more exciting than the Lurker? The only one that comes close is the baneling and it's handling (and use) is wastly diffrent. Lurkers were usefull even when the Terra had Scan/Detection...
Baneling Trap ---> Scan/Raven --> Marines "A+Click" dead Banelings. Lurkers --> Scan/Vessel --> Marines "A+Click" = DEAD Marines.
The Lurker could stall pushes even when detection was around, the Banelings just can't. This is a MAJOR diffrence.
I get nightmares when i think about ZvX Lategame in Hots..
10 Swarmhosts, 10 Broodlords, 10 Infestors + Lings... Yay, let's go into the endlessly spawning free unit boredom...
On July 12 2012 04:12 Antylamon wrote: The Lurker would NOT break up deathball play. Toss would just use obs to detect and Colossi to outrange.
Plus, Lurker would be Hive tech, ruining its BW purpose of delaying the game until Hive tech. Ultralisks and Brood Lords overshadow it completely, and the Lurker would barely see any use except for containing, harassing, etc.
Nobody seems to understand what it means for Lurkers to be Hive tech -.-
Why would it be hive tech? as it is now, swarm host only require infestation pit.
I'm not sure why you created a poll about this. Hardly anyone has gotten a chance to actually play with the Swarm Host, and this is TL. If you were expecting anything besides everything BW is better than SC2 and Blizzard puts its finger up its butt and eats it, you don't know the site very well.
I voted for Swarm Host, largely because I don't think it actually does quite the same thing as the lurker, despite their similarities. I'll have to get my hands on the game for a while to know for sure, though. From what I've read, they tried to shoehorn the lurker into alpha, and just couldn't get it to work, so I'm glad to see they are trying something different.
I think we can all agree that if swarm host can control space better, then it wouldnt recieved as much complaint no? That seems to be the main complaint imo. Personally, I think they might be able too. With the swarm host in combination with viper then they might be able too but it definitely will be inferior to the lurker in term of its ability to control space
Lurker promotes aggression a lot better than that stupid swarm host. I take my lurkers, I put up a contain around a stupid toss who goes some idiotic 2 base death ball play. I take the entire map and I win.
The lurkers can either put up a contain or actually start sieging the base. There are a lot of irrelevant comments on how the lurker is not going to work: 'it will get owned by marauders, it will be too high in tech, it will be blblaalblablal'. You know you can change other things of the game as well right? Up the damage of the lurker, move it down in tech (the lurker wasn't hive tech in bw either). If the lurker comes into sc2 we need it a lot earlier than hive tech.
Lurker promotes the opponent to take action. I can put up a contain around his base, either actually attacking it or out of range forcing him to start thinking. Because the opponent knows that while i'm containing him, I'm taking the entire map and if he doesn't do anything about it, he's going to lose. I can put up lurkers on ramps. Blocking the opponent from ever going up that ramp. 'What's going on up there at that ramp?
Morphing lurkers (eggs) can block ramps. Hold position lurkers (the best way isn't actually hold position as far as I remember, they're forced to attack an opponent building far away and you press stop as soon as you see marines in range) can block ramps or zones.
Lurkers promote intense and exciting play. Players are forced to micro. Players are forced to undertake action. Lurker can defend places. Lurker can put on pressure.
Swarm host can put on pressure and that's basically it. Swarm host isn't going to stop a terran army from stimming past him after killing the first batch of locus. (or just dodging them altogether).
I don't need the lurker; I want a better unit than the swarm host OR the lurker.
On July 12 2012 15:48 ciox wrote: Yeah, I like the Lurker is better, it would also help if the Swarm Host didn't look like a mushroom with legs.
I agree 100 percent. The concept art is ok but the ingame model is a total joke.
It's basically the pokemon parasect.
Jezus this unit looks so disgusting. Where is my daemonic, scary zerg from brood war?? All you people complaining 'go play bw noob', sc2 is still the same franchise and is based on sc1/bw. Zerg weren't supposed to be insects, but more like the tyranids from warhammer 40k.
Those are freakin' awesome and are how the zerg is supposed to look.
look at these and tell me you don't see zergling/hydralisk. (actually cool units).
EPT
![[image loading]](http://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/pokemon-blue-version/6/60/Parasect.gif)
![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EkGZwY-4u_k/Taq5AuGAGoI/AAAAAAAAACM/GmQ7UIdJ178/s1600/TyranidZoanthropes.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://store.miniwargaming.com/images/D/tyranid-trygon-mawloc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://store.miniwargaming.com/images/D/tyranid-carnifex.jpg)
