EPTModified Movement Test - Page 8
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There will obviously be balance shifts when gameplay values are changed. Nobody is claiming otherwise. This thread is about the effect these changes have on the clarity and spectator-friendliness of SC2. | ||
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ThirdDegree
United States329 Posts
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PrAeToR.FeNiX
Canada361 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
This is all just BS conjecture of course, so i'd like to actually play a game or two! | ||
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TechNoTrance
Canada1007 Posts
You can't expect to change a fundamental part of the game and expect balance to stay exactly how it is. You change one fundamental thing, suddenly several other fundamental things are broken. I don't need to explain what becomes useless and what becomes easier, because many people have stated it already. It's a nice mod but not realistic. | ||
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Ireniicus
United Kingdom374 Posts
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Corvi
Germany1406 Posts
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
On July 04 2012 01:45 Ireniicus wrote: terran would need an insane nerf for this to work No, all the AOE of the races need to be buffed. | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
On July 04 2012 01:44 TechNoTrance wrote: While I agree it is pretty cool, you can't argue that it doesn't bring the skill cap of the game down. A player who spreads and splits better than his opponent will gain an advantage in an even engagement. You can't expect to change a fundamental part of the game and expect balance to stay exactly how it is. You change one fundamental thing, suddenly several other fundamental things are broken. I don't need to explain what becomes useless and what becomes easier, because many people have stated it already. It's a nice mod but not realistic. I think you overestimate the effects of this. It mainly changes how the player has to control the stuff to make it work. The core gameplay data/mechanics and thus the balance is not affected by this at all. Also, no one expects it to be used in WoL without balance changes. See it as an idea that no one has tested yet and that could be nice to introduce for HotS, where balance is something that is has to be reestablished anyway. | ||
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
I have messed with this a lot and it doesn't really work out very well. With this change clumped units are still just as ugly, and it just makes it really easy to put your units in these formations instead of requiring skill to keep your units spread out. I think instead it would be better to increase unit sizes (by like %10 radius size) so clumped units don't look as ugly, and only increase the magic box size to scale. Also reducing moving turnrates (more like BW, btw) will help units not clump up as quickly. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On July 04 2012 01:40 GamanNo wrote: Well as long as this doesn't make sc2 easier I am all for it. The clumping up kind of irritates me. You were opposed to the changes made from BW too, right? I just want to make sure you're consistent. | ||
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FlukyS
Ireland485 Posts
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
Love how it looks. And there is no better time to press something like this than with a new expansion. | ||
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Chronos.
United States805 Posts
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Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On July 04 2012 01:44 TechNoTrance wrote: While I agree it is pretty cool, you can't argue that it doesn't bring the skill cap of the game down. A player who spreads and splits better than his opponent will gain an advantage in an even engagement. You can't expect to change a fundamental part of the game and expect balance to stay exactly how it is. You change one fundamental thing, suddenly several other fundamental things are broken. I don't need to explain what becomes useless and what becomes easier, because many people have stated it already. It's a nice mod but not realistic. How does it bring down the skill cap when the AOE radius of all spells would be increased so that you'd have to split more, this makes it so that you get destroyed even worse if you don't split and stay spread, making it even more important On July 04 2012 01:50 FlukyS wrote: If this was actually a thing it would remove any micro from a terran standpoint because they wouldnt need to split the marines against banelings for instance and that literally removes that part of the game. AOE would be buffed together with it so that you have to split even further so no it wouldn't remove that part of the game, it would just make you get even more destroyed by not splitting. | ||
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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Razith
Canada431 Posts
On July 03 2012 22:08 MavercK wrote: i dont understand people saying this simplifies the game... deathball is an issue because your ball is so tightly clumped that as soon as an engagement happens 100% of your units are shooting and it's instantly perfectly efficient. where as with inefficient pathing fights become longer because units filter in and you have maybe 50% of your army attacking at any given time in a battle. alot of repositioning goes on. time is given for reinforcements and flanks. etc. the list goes on. On July 03 2012 22:35 MavercK wrote: one more thing i have to say. consider this two players vs'ing each other one has this activated, the other does not. the guys army thats all split up will melt, absolutely melt, in seconds, to the other players standard death ball. it would be the most one sided battle in history. people really seem missguided and aren't explaining their reasons at all. I think too many people have skipped over MavercK's points. For those unaware he is the one leading the SC2:BW mod and definitely has some experience in how movement changes affect gameplay. Quoted for exposure. | ||
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
On July 04 2012 01:57 Superouman wrote: I tried the mod and there is an issue when selected units are very far apart on the map, they still keep their formation even if they are 50 squares away. The problem is that if you reduce the maximum distance, then if any unit outside, like 50 squares away, is also selected, all units will clump up again. Like I said, it doesn't work out very well. I think the system would only work with a limited unit selection. On July 04 2012 01:58 Razith wrote: I think too many people have skipped over MavercK's points. For those unaware he is the one leading the SC2:BW mod and definitely has some experience in how movement changes affect gameplay. Quoted for exposure. But I think with this change it's still pretty easy to clump your units if you want to, isn't it? So players just always will, unless they need to avoid some AoE or something, in which case they can easily avoid it by spreading ahead of time and leaving them spread. | ||
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Orzabal
France287 Posts
Blizzard said that it was impossible because of the pathfinding... The game would be so much better. | ||
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Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On July 04 2012 02:00 Gfire wrote: But I think with this change it's still pretty easy to clump your units if you want to, isn't it? So players just always will, unless they need to avoid some AoE or something, in which case they can easily avoid it by spreading ahead of time and leaving them spread. It is indeed still pretty easy to clump up your units but the question is, will anyone want to with increased aoe radius and damage? Being spread out ahead of time and leaving them spread would make it so that a fight VS aoe is basically like it currently is but if you are clumped up, it will be 10x worse to be clumped up and I'm not sure if someone would even risk that | ||
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cHL_at
Austria13 Posts
whats the sense of this? how would this improve the game for the palyers or the audience. i am sorry. but i dont see any real positive effect besides a lower dps (regardless of aoe) if u force units to only move like this, and remove the clumping at all. but this would change asthetics of the game for the viewer, and the controlling for the players in realy huge way. so in my opinion this cant be a solution (in case the dps is a real problem). | ||
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