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There will obviously be balance shifts when gameplay values are changed. Nobody is claiming otherwise. This thread is about the effect these changes have on the clarity and spectator-friendliness of SC2. |
Honestly i don't care about balance. HOTS is coming, the balance will be f****d up, the beta and the patch will come to fix that.
Now what i do care is the look ( as a spectator ) and the feeling of the game i play. And i have to say both are great with that change. It's crazy how army look even bigger and badass. There's so much to do in that direction. I love it !
Now what's make me a sad panda is that i'm not sure if blizzard is capable of changing such core mechanics in his game. They kind of did for War 3 with the expansion ( The game was so boring before ), not to sure if this is the same now...Hope i'm wrong cause it's that kind of change i'm looking for HOTS.
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More threads like this please, spread the no more units clumping propaganda!
So blizz changes that shit!
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here are a few ideas I have to go alongside this mod
buff emp radius
buff overall tank damage. Now that smaller units won't clump as easily, there is really no real reason to have a 35(+15 light) tag anymore, so make it just base 50 damage or maybe higher.
buff HSM radius
buff storm radius, the damage output is fine as is
I want to say buff colossi splash, but since it's a linear splash it might just need a bit more base line damage
either buff archons base damage or buff it's AOE radius
buff fungal growth dps. I don't think we need fungal to have a bigger radius like storm as it's an ability that locks down and prevents micro, I think a DPS buff to compensate for hitting less targets could be an answer.
Ultralisk might need tweaking as well, it's already pathetic in WoL, it might not need any changes with HotS however.
Banelings will need a radius buff as well but it shouldn't have a bigger radius on impacting buildings, to prevent 5 banelings from destroying 10 supply depots.
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On July 04 2012 00:54 Super_bricklayer wrote:
Honestly i don't care about balance. HOTS is coming, the balance will be f****d up, the beta and the patch will come to fix that.
Now what i do care is the look ( as a spectator ) and the feeling of the game i play. And i have to say both are great with that change. It's crazy how army look even bigger and badass. There's so much to do in that direction. I love it !
Now what's make me a sad panda is that i'm not sure if blizzard is capable of changing such core mechanics in his game. They kind of did for War 3 with the expansion ( The game was so boring before ), not to sure if this is the same now...Hope i'm wrong cause it's that kind of change i'm looking for HOTS.
This is what makes me have just a slight bit of hope for it acually happening. I'm just wondering how to get it to them, show it and how to open their eyes about it.
And the only real problem I see with completely balancing this by buffing aoe damage and radius is what to do with it vs workers since that could be problematic.
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This thread helps me relate to broodwar players who say sc2 is too easy.
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If you think about it, everything is gonna need to be rebalanced anyway once HOTS is released, so that would be the perfect time to introduce a fundamental change like this.
It looks good in principle, and it's clearly a change in the right direction, but it would need a lot of testing by pros on community maps first (kind of like the reducing mineral patches movement...whatever happened to that?)
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
wow. i know modifying movement makes sense for gameplay but seeing it in sc2 is awesome. really makes the graphics shine - everything seems on a larger scale and clarity is massively improved. good work, proud to bump this =)
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This is pretty sweet. I hate when you're trying to unsiege tanks and move them and they clump up.
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Someone should really get a thread up on the sc2 forum with the video and main points about it all and anywhere else possible.
Is it possible to bomb blizzard with suggestions somehow even though it's probably useless and pointless in almost all cases.
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I can't find mmdaybreak on na and eu, what am i doing wrong?
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On July 04 2012 00:59 emc wrote:
here are a few ideas I have to go alongside this mod
buff emp radius
buff overall tank damage. Now that smaller units won't clump as easily, there is really no real reason to have a 35(+15 light) tag anymore, so make it just base 50 damage or maybe higher.
buff HSM radius
buff storm radius, the damage output is fine as is
I want to say buff colossi splash, but since it's a linear splash it might just need a bit more base line damage
either buff archons base damage or buff it's AOE radius
buff fungal growth dps. I don't think we need fungal to have a bigger radius like storm as it's an ability that locks down and prevents micro, I think a DPS buff to compensate for hitting less targets could be an answer.
Ultralisk might need tweaking as well, it's already pathetic in WoL, it might not need any changes with HotS however.
Banelings will need a radius buff as well but it shouldn't have a bigger radius on impacting buildings, to prevent 5 banelings from destroying 10 supply depots.
none of this is really needed
units naturally clump during an engagement, because multiple units have a tendency to all shoot at the same thing whether or not you tell them to. directing AOE at the sweet spots of the opponent army requires you quickly and accurately evaluate the engagement whereas the textbook baneling vs marine split, as cool as it is, is pretty repetitive in how it plays out
this definitely needs to be looked at for hots - see, the reason BW pathing is better is because this is more or less the behavior of the units. units within a certain size formation will preserve that formation roughly unless you select a really large formation of units (this is all the overlord+muta trick really does) or click toward the center of the formation. BW pathing is also bad because there's a limited number of directions that units can move, whereas SC2 units can move in 360 degrees, on top of some strange animation bugs. i don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds.
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On July 04 2012 01:15 Superouman wrote:
I can't find mmdaybreak on na and eu, what am i doing wrong?
Yeah. Can't find it either.
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Too much theory crafting in this thread. People need to start posting replays of match up's showing their points.
The commonly debated points:
-AoE becomes useless.
-Splitting is the only interesting micro in SC2; pre-splitting will ruin it.
-Balancing headaches.
These are all personal views on the outcome without testing. Who knows, maybe it breaks the game completely, maybe it creates a lot more strategic decisions that currently aren't being thought of due to current movement restraints, maybe this will spread out battles creating more fronts to fight at. Maybe unit comp and unit formation will become an interesting part of micro as you can now somewhat keep units in formation.
As said at the start of all those sentences; "Maybe". I'm really interested to see how some games play out, and definitely willing to play with some fellow TLers for fun to see what changes.
Edit: OP can I request what you have changed so those of us with some editor experience can fiddle around with it as well / create more maps with the change?
Lets use a common acronym to throw in front of map names to help keep things standardized. This appears to be MM for Modified Movement.
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On July 04 2012 01:15 Superouman wrote:
I can't find mmdaybreak on na and eu, what am i doing wrong?
Its still called "Daybreak Dynamic Movement" on EU. Sorry for that, would be nice if it could be written into the opening posting.
edit:
Uploaded it another time called "MMDaybreak". Both names available on EU now.
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Hmmm, I wonder what would happen if you combine this with FRB...
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On July 04 2012 01:33 Bommes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 01:15 Superouman wrote:
I can't find mmdaybreak on na and eu, what am i doing wrong? Its still called "Daybreak Dynamic Movement" on EU. Sorry for that, would be nice if it could be written into the opening posting.
Wonder if you could get it on NA as well? MMDaybreak doesn't show up for us either.
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Really like the objective nature of this test, it's really interesting.
Hopefully this is something Blizzard looks at as it makes everything easier to count and look at.
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Cant find MMDaybreak on NA.. where is it? 
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Well as long as this doesn't make sc2 easier I am all for it. The clumping up kind of irritates me.
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On July 04 2012 01:30 Razith wrote:
Too much theory crafting in this thread. People need to start posting replays of match up's showing their points.
The commonly debated points:
-AoE becomes useless.
-Splitting is the only interesting micro in SC2; pre-splitting will ruin it.
-Balancing headaches.
These are all personal views on the outcome without testing. Who knows, maybe it breaks the game completely, maybe it creates a lot more strategic decisions that currently aren't being thought of due to current movement restraints, maybe this will spread out battles creating more fronts to fight at. Maybe unit comp and unit formation will become an interesting part of micro as you can now somewhat keep units in formation.
As said at the start of all those sentences; "Maybe". I'm really interested to see how some games play out, and definitely willing to play with some fellow TLers for fun to see what changes.
Edit: OP can I request what you have changed so those of us with some editor experience can fiddle around with it as well / create more maps with the change?
Lets use a common acronym to throw in front of map names to help keep things standardized. This appears to be MM for Modified Movement.
It's tough to get anything other than personal views though when it's still not possible to test the actual things you think would need changing. At the moment you can only really get a feel of the actual movement and perhaps what the current balance with it would be like but not with AOE changed etc. I'm just hoping people doesn't just dismiss it after trying it because they think it's imbalanced without all the obvious suggested changes that should be made alongside it.
On July 04 2012 01:40 GamanNo wrote:
Well as long as this doesn't make sc2 easier I am all for it. The clumping up kind of irritates me.
In theory it shouldn't make it easier, only more difficult as staying split would mean that it's kind of the way it is now in terms of balance/dodging AOE but if you don't stay split and clump up you should be destroyed with improved AOE.
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EPT
