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There will obviously be balance shifts when gameplay values are changed. Nobody is claiming otherwise. This thread is about the effect these changes have on the clarity and spectator-friendliness of SC2. | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On July 03 2012 23:52 Superouman wrote: the size of areas in sc2 maps are adapted to the size of the balls, if blizz decides to implant this change, i will be very glad to make wider areas ok nice | ||
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Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
On July 03 2012 23:52 Superouman wrote: the size of areas in sc2 maps are adapted to the size of the balls, if blizz decides to implant this change, i will be very glad to make wider areas <3. Mapmakers = heroes. Now if only...if only... I forsee a lot of possibilities opened up for mapmaking if this change is made, in regards to engagement areas/platforms. | ||
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Irre
United States646 Posts
I am honestly shocked by most of the comments in the thread defending the unit clumping in Sc2.. Giant 1A Deathballs or entire games being based around 3-4 abilities in the whole damn game is just dull. there is so much potential in starcraft and especially with a lot of the new stuff coming out, yet so much creativity and interesting battles end in some giant aoe hitting an army and 3 seconds later battle and game is over. I am pretty sure Nada has commented before on how severe the game is and he struggled with it. That is actually the aspect that worries me most for the Bw geniuses coming in and having issue dominating. If the BW pros fail to create the same magic and genius they did in sc1, i think this is a major reason why... When mechanics are easy and automated, and strategy becomes all completely based around a giant clumped army..how much finesse and innovation can you possibly have? I hate to bring him up bc im a fanboy, but MKP is really one of the only people that have shown shocking and potentially revolutionary ways to control units and sc2 has been out for 2 years now...why wouldnt we want to explore other means to control armies?? See past your desire to watch laser shows and anti micro abilities and think at the bigger picture and future possibilities that changes like this would bring to the game and to the scene. | ||
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dragonsuper
Liechtenstein222 Posts
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jdsowa
405 Posts
It would weaken AOE, but AOE's already too silly in my opinion. When your opponent gets a lot of AOE it can pretty much render half of your available units worthless, limiting the game to an unnecessary degree, IMO. | ||
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ThirdDegree
United States329 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On July 04 2012 00:20 ThirdDegree wrote: Aesthetically this definitely looks better. However, like many others, I question the balance implications. AOE would need significant changes, and I am curious as to how it would work with chokes and such. The bigger factor, and I hear this a lot from BW players, is that they hate all the changes in SC2 that decrease the reliance on good micro. When things are automated it just makes the player skill that much harder to discern. However, I find that something like this actually does decrease the required micro. Pre splitting an army before an engagement means you can just a-move in to it. Marine splitting from banes or storms is pretty intense, and same goes for splitting before emp for toss Of course there will be balance implications -- the game is balanced around giant clumps of units/death balls. Players are also pre-splitting before engagements regardless when they anticipate an engagement. I also hear a lot from SC2 players that they'd rather fight their opponent and not the UI. p.s. hi thirddegree | ||
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Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
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Dagobert
Netherlands1858 Posts
OP did it exactly right. No bs hypothesising, simply "let's see how this works out". I really don't get why people complain about this idea before it's even tested. | ||
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AsymptoticClimax
United Kingdom249 Posts
Imagine how infective storm and fungal would become? | ||
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Pucca
Taiwan1280 Posts
I don't think they will change it but epic nonetheless. | ||
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BeholdOblivion
United States72 Posts
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On July 04 2012 00:34 AsymptoticClimax wrote: This is a pretty huge change so big infact that I think It's too late to implement because the cost and change on balance is too large. Imagine how infective storm and fungal would become? a perfect time to introduce it in HotS before the beta is released. Something should be changed, and I think a combination of the new HotS units, a Movement modification and less resources per base would make the game really interesting. We are all going to have to relearn a lot of match ups in HotS, so why not new mechanics to? level the playing field and for SC2 to be a better game, this HAS to happen. | ||
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Rockmonsterdude
Sweden169 Posts
 But as everyone has said, you need to change ALOT in balance terms then. But still awesome! Good job! | ||
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
There are tricks with the SC2 unit system. Click far away with units in formation and they will keep their spread better. The death ball is a symptom of people not controlling their units better. People always complain SC2 is too easy compared to BW, yet they can't even keep their army split up. I'd much rather have an incentive to split than be forced to, more skill requirements for better players. Plus, have you even seen what you can do with shift-micro? You can shift-micro Marines to stutter step with move-hold-move-hold. Idk, with SC2's features it heavily makes up for the "deathball", and only makes it easier for you to smash people who DO ball up their army. | ||
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nucLeaRTV
Romania822 Posts
I concur your concurment. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On July 04 2012 00:37 BeholdOblivion wrote: I would be very much in favor of this change (or some form of it). Maybe the movement can gain some momentum with tournies/showmatches. It seems like if this idea caught on, Blizzard really couldn't stop it because tournaments could just use custom maps. I wish, but pros practice on ladder which means they'd have to practice two different versions of SC2, not viable sorry to say. If this is going to happen, it has to be done by blizzard. Thing is, we need to show proof and testing the map and showing evidence is the best way to prove it's worth looking into. | ||
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Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On July 04 2012 00:13 jdsowa wrote: This would cut down on unit splitting micro, but would make the game a lot more strategic. You get the ideal arc and you can hold a position on the map without having to resort to the HOLD command and nullifying melee units, etc. It would weaken AOE, but AOE's already too silly in my opinion. When your opponent gets a lot of AOE it can pretty much render half of your available units worthless, limiting the game to an unnecessary degree, IMO. This will not cut down on splitting micro as an AOE buff would be needed with this change and it's purpose is also not to weaken AOE but give it the possibility to be even stronger like it should be. If you focus on splitting your units and staying split a fight vs AOE should have around the same effect as it does currently except for the fight being fought out a lot better as the army would be more spread which would allow and encourage more micro in seperate parts of it as it would be a longer fight that's not over in a second. If you do not focus on splitting your units, they will and should be melted by AOE. On July 04 2012 00:20 ThirdDegree wrote: Aesthetically this definitely looks better. However, like many others, I question the balance implications. AOE would need significant changes, and I am curious as to how it would work with chokes and such. The bigger factor, and I hear this a lot from BW players, is that they hate all the changes in SC2 that decrease the reliance on good micro. When things are automated it just makes the player skill that much harder to discern. However, I find that something like this actually does decrease the required micro. Pre splitting an army before an engagement means you can just a-move in to it. Marine splitting from banes or storms is pretty intense, and same goes for splitting before emp for toss Since the radius/damage of AOE would be increased together with this it wouldn't change the micro required as a larger area would mean that you would have to split further to avoid it. | ||
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AsymptoticClimax
United Kingdom249 Posts
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