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emc
United States3088 Posts
On July 04 2012 12:57 Orek wrote: International Terrans "We hate Korean Terran comrades. They are killing the hope for Terran buff." koreans play for glory, international terrans play for money | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On July 04 2012 13:14 emc wrote: koreans play for glory, international terrans play for money then why do so many Koreans leave for foreign teams? Why did MVP say he wants to win X amount of money in a year? Don't kid yourself, they play for money too. | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On July 04 2012 13:14 emc wrote: koreans play for glory, international terrans play for money Mvp originally said that he started playing StarCraft 2 for the money. Also, all pro players play for money. It's their job, stop saying that players playing for money is a "bad thing" or "hurting e-Sports." | ||
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Toastie.NL
Netherlands232 Posts
Balance by winrates seems fine, Viewer experience has never been worse (tvz and pvz being macrofest for 15 minutes into deathball attack - tvp still race vs time) Glad ZvZ and PvP are getting better by the day? | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
As usual korean is more extreme (not as balanced), but it's not as different from the international as it usually is. TvP is at 54%, that's acceptable, ZvT is like 51% (how?), PvZ is like the same. | ||
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SiroKO
France721 Posts
June TvZ: 58-56 GSL and GSTL TvZ: 29-32 Proleague TvZ: 3-6 Kespa Exhibition TvZ: 3-4 KSL Finals TvZ: 3-1 ESV Korean Weekly 5,6,7 TvZ: 20-13 That being said TLPD is flawed. If they counted Code A qualifiers and TSL qualifiers it would skew the winrates heavily in Zergs favor and both of those tournaments are much harder then the ESV tournament but neither is in the TLPD database. Todays OSL qualifiers won't be in the database either and those qualifiers were brutally hard. Code A qualifiers TvZ (not counting amateurs or teamless Koreans): 14-36 TSL4 KR qualifier #1 TvZ: 26-42 TSL4 KR qualifier #2 TvZ: 25-38 TSL4 KR qualifier #3 TvZ: 16-24 Knew those stats were rigged. I've always been amazed by the stupidity of people being convinced by graphs alone, without checking the integrity of the data behind them. Anyone can create graphs on Excel or R, name them however they want, and upload them on the WEB. Real stats are therefore : 41.5% TvZ 58.5% | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
On July 02 2012 22:29 mEtRoSG wrote: fake? no way terran has had so many wins against zerg ive only seen zerg wins in gsl gstl etc Yeah I'm not sure what happened to the giant loss record that Terrans were having. 29-32 doesn't make sense. | ||
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Kfcnoob
United States296 Posts
On July 03 2012 00:01 Ctuchik wrote: Here is the TVZ Korea data for reference: June TvZ: 58-56 GSL and GSTL TvZ: 29-32 Proleague TvZ: 3-6 Kespa Exhibition TvZ: 3-4 KSL Finals TvZ: 3-1 ESV Korean Weekly 5,6,7 TvZ: 20-13 That being said TLPD is flawed. If they counted Code A qualifiers and TSL qualifiers it would skew the winrates heavily in Zergs favor and both of those tournaments are much harder then the ESV tournament but neither is in the TLPD database. Todays OSL qualifiers won't be in the database either and those qualifiers were brutally hard. Code A qualifiers TvZ (not counting amateurs or teamless Koreans): 14-36 TSL4 KR qualifier #1 TvZ: 26-42 TSL4 KR qualifier #2 TvZ: 25-38 TSL4 KR qualifier #3 TvZ: 16-24 if u do the math, u get a TvZ winrate of 139-196, this gives u a 41.5% to 58.5% ratio. over 5% difference | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On July 09 2012 03:41 SiroKO wrote: Knew those stats were rigged. I've always been amazed by the stupidity of people being convinced by graphs alone, without checking the integrity of the data behind them. Anyone can create graphs on Excel or R, name them however they want, and upload them on the WEB. Real stats are therefore : 41.5% TvZ 58.5% How are the stats rigged? The win rates haven't included qualifiers before so they weren't counted this time either. It's not a big conspiracy against terrans, you know. I remember reading that explanaiton like a week ago in this thread, funny that there's still posts about this stuff. | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On July 02 2012 22:29 Gentso wrote: Foreigners can't typically create extremely solid styles on their own like the hellion opener. Only person who's been effective at something like that is Stephano. So when the game gets changed they have to wait for Koreans to figure everything out first. Is this incredibly wrong. Sky terran which was popular for a bit was a foreigner thing. The HuK 20 nexus which is still used is a foreigner thing, IechOic's opening was incredibly popular till some nerfs hit. 5Rax Reaper was a foreigner thing I believe. Yes the Koreans create many styles, but there are many styles created by foreigners too. BTW: those are just a few, there are many more styles that have been created by foreigners. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On July 09 2012 04:31 docvoc wrote: Is this incredibly wrong. Sky terran which was popular for a bit was a foreigner thing. The HuK 20 nexus which is still used is a foreigner thing, IechOic's opening was incredibly popular till some nerfs hit. 5Rax Reaper was a foreigner thing I believe. Yes the Koreans create many styles, but there are many styles created by foreigners too. BTW: those are just a few, there are many more styles that have been created by foreigners. DEFINITELY. I would even argue you could attribute double forge pvt to the foreigner scene, as guys like Axslav and Nony were doing it while koreans were still doing 2 base colossi openers every time. Koreans are not omnipotent creative beings and foreigners functionally retarded. PvP phoenix builds also got popular in the non korean metagame months before koreans ever started using them. | ||
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n0ise
3452 Posts
On July 09 2012 04:36 Drowsy wrote: DEFINITELY. I would even argue you could attribute double forge pvt to the foreigner scene, as guys like Axslav and Nony were doing it while koreans were still doing 2 base colossi openers every time. Koreans are not omnipotent creative beings and foreigners functionally retarded. PvP phoenix builds also got popular in the non korean metagame months before koreans ever started using them. i wish to call dibs on the expo - hellion - banshee opener, if possible but seriously, yeah, the thing that makes koreans korean is their practice regimen, discipline and drive to actually own regardless of anything else, not their uncanny genes for starcraft creativity | ||
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dde
Canada796 Posts
On July 09 2012 03:41 SiroKO wrote: Knew those stats were rigged. I've always been amazed by the stupidity of people being convinced by graphs alone, without checking the integrity of the data behind them. Anyone can create graphs on Excel or R, name them however they want, and upload them on the WEB. Real stats are therefore : 41.5% TvZ 58.5% only 17 percents difference? i guess terrans are closing out the gap. I was expecting way bigger difference judging by terran slumping really hard on international events. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On July 09 2012 03:41 SiroKO wrote: Knew those stats were rigged. I've always been amazed by the stupidity of people being convinced by graphs alone, without checking the integrity of the data behind them. Anyone can create graphs on Excel or R, name them however they want, and upload them on the WEB. Real stats are therefore : 41.5% TvZ 58.5% Wow! You have discovered Team Liquid's secret anti-Terran agenda! I suspect these graphs were also created in Roswell. | ||
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shockaslim
United States1104 Posts
On July 09 2012 04:13 karpo wrote: How are the stats rigged? The win rates haven't included qualifiers before so they weren't counted this time either. It's not a big conspiracy against terrans, you know. I remember reading that explanaiton like a week ago in this thread, funny that there's still posts about this stuff. I think it is highly plausible that the international qualifiers for TSL were included whereas the Korean ones were not. I say this because the Korean TSL qualifiers are strangely in the international TLPD. | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On July 09 2012 05:19 shockaslim wrote: I think it is highly plausible that the international qualifiers for TSL were included whereas the Korean ones were not. I say this because the Korean TSL qualifiers are strangely in the international TLPD. Then it still isn't rigged, right? | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
On July 09 2012 04:41 n0ise wrote: i wish to call dibs on the expo - hellion - banshee opener, if possible but seriously, yeah, the thing that makes koreans korean is their practice regimen, discipline and drive to actually own regardless of anything else, not their uncanny genes for starcraft creativity No one has "uncanny genes for starcraft creativity". Lets be honest, more legitimate and popular builds have come out of Korea than anywhere else. Im all for supporting foreigners, but I don't see any difference in "creativity" between Koreans and foreigners (unless youre talking about shitty builds that are funny to watch). And its a little funny to me that we compare Korea to the rest of the World and say they aren't creative when the rest of the world has like 100 times more people to be thinking up of ideas. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
On July 09 2012 05:04 dde wrote: only 17 percents difference? i guess terrans are closing out the gap. I was expecting way bigger difference judging by terran slumping really hard on international events. Keep in mind a huge chunk of T wins come from winning coinflips which Zergs voluntarily enter or do old 2 base builds. If you tally the "real" games this would look much more lopsided. | ||
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Cinim
Denmark866 Posts
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shockaslim
United States1104 Posts
Well, when you take korean qualifiers that are in the international TLPD and apply them as international stats......it does really mess things up. | ||
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