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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed. 12:09 KST Page 98 | ||
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
On June 24 2012 10:14 branflakes14 wrote: I doubt a month is long enough to accurately gauge. Well, unless you're a fan of the same kind of knee jerk patching that got the game into this mess to begin with. We had multiple months that let us accurately gauge that TvZ was balanced, so why change it? | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On June 24 2012 10:21 Crookie wrote: Lets keep crying shall we? After 80 pages of complaining, weve made so much progress so far! Fuck actually trying to do anything about it. Crying on TL is the way to go!! Great work guys! The only crazy person in this thread I see is you lol TvZ has been pretty damn even for the past 5 months (pre-patch). But they went ahead and introduced the unnecessary queen change which ruined the matchup. Went from ~40-50/50-60 to ~20-40/60-80... | ||
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redruMBunny
74 Posts
Mech - Thor/tank/hellion, varying composition according to the Zerg army, could maybe work. Of course, you run into late game problems, mechs take a while to develop, &c, and infestors are a problem that I don't think ghosts can quite answer, then there's potential problems with broodlords &c &c, but then, I can't say. I think the next few months will see more answers on how successful TvZ mech can be. Hellions anyways - you can't kite 2 Hellions in for decent disruption any more, which is a pretty big difference. Now you need 4+ to make things happen. Obviously Hellion harass isn't as good as it was pre-patch, but it still isn't awful for Terran. You typically get a good scout off. You disrupt drones, often to the tune of 140 mineral 60 gas (for 15 seconds of disruption). You may get some kills, and can often retreat some Hellions. All in all, not a bad return. Not great, but not awful. Early tank/marine - you can get smashed up by lings, and if your main army is gone, it gets ugly. So probably not. Even SCV all-in is risky, especially since Zerg will often see the attack coming with a scout zergling. Cloak banshee rush - with less gas, Zerg has later lair development, so later overlords &c. But I don't quite feel this may be the answer either. You will at least probably have to proxy starport for this to work - for better timing, and because a suicide scout overlord over your main can typically see starport/tech lab. Even so, a couple pre-emptive spore colonies, and Overseer/queen can make things very tricky. Medivac drop - I see a lot of Terrans going single Medivac drop, which doesn't do a lot of damage, then gets cleaned up in short order. Besides that, even at pro level you don't often get coordinated attacks where the Terran makes multiprong attacks with good micro. I think this is the big thing that Terran hasn't been using. It's difficult, and you could say with some justice that most players just aren't capable of simultaneous drops with good micro, but even at SC2 pro level I haven't seen the sort of aggressiveness and effectiveness that I would expect. I think good medivac use might not be a definitive answer, but that it might be part of *a* answer. Simultaneous or near-simultaneous drops and good micro to keep the Zerg running around a bit, while NOT losing most of the Terran units - very promising. What's the Zerg defense? Simultaneously gauge threats? Players responding to attacks have a worse time of it than those initiating them. Scattering spores on the perimeter is too expensive, patrolling zerglings and banelings costs Zerg development and lessens the defense at the natural, using forces at the natural to react likewise takes time. It isn't a lot of time, not at all, to be clear. But there should be a window, and I think Terrans can use it to some effect. Viking - you don't see Viking in TvZ, but I think it might have some potential. You're usually going to have overlords scattered over the map that can't be defended, and Vikings can pick off a few. Plus with flying Vikings you can get Terran scouting of Zerg bases, overlord harassing, maybe land and pick some stuff off - maybe there's something there, maybe not. I'm not talking about a chunk of Vikings. 2 at the most. But at the very least, Vikings should serve to cut down on Zerg overlord scouting, which although not a big plus considering the resource and time investment is something. Again, not *the* answer, clearly, but maybe part of *a* answer, possibly involving ghosts and keeping the zerg guessing about what terran is up to. Raven - Midgame or even late game TvZ without Ravens was pretty standard prepatch. It's true you need tech lab for Raven. It's true Ravens cost a chunk of gas. But these are early concerns when Terran is really strapped for gas. Later on, considering how much a MULE can bring in, Raven makes a lot of sense. Yes, Ravens are vulnerable and can be destroyed, yes it costs a lot of energy for point defense or seeker missile, yes seekers aren't great and require research, yes of course you need gas. But - constant detection stopping baneling traps, mowing over creep, plus leaving more energy for MULEs, plus by midgame you can probably move barracks/factory around a bit for a Raven. Anyways, I think Ravens were underutilized prepatch, and that they will see increased use and be part of the answer for the postpatch TvZ matchup. Ghost - EMP is a good answer to infestors, but getting the EMP off is questionable. Maybe some combination of splitting ghosts, cloak, and vikings targeting overseers will work. -- I'm guessing we'll see something like reactor medivac x 2 into raven for frontal probing push teamed with drop, or medivac x 4 into simultaneous drops, mixing hellions with bio. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
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jkos86
50 Posts
Only now are we seeing some top level protosses and zergs. Tslsymbol is and example of how a good zerg is meant to play. Previous seasons did any zergs play anything like symbol? The closest they got was a 3base drg. Or watching nestea fumble with his hivetech and lose. Basically zerg has never been playing at its full potential and lacked the skilled players who could utilise this potential. Blizzard continually disrupted the metagame to make it easier for zergs despite them never fully utilising their race. The ghost nerf and hellion nerf were both unnecessary. Zergs just needed to micro their units and use some banelings. Conclusion it seems to me that david kim has a decent knowledge of the game and seems pretty smart but bowder is completely clueless and seems to me like a corporate tool. From his interviews he seems very pretentious and it really bugs me how he is afraid to address balance (because his knowledge is so lacking) and to me it seems like he doesnt have a good picture of how the game works. Does anyone else agree? | ||
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redruMBunny
74 Posts
On June 24 2012 10:24 Femari wrote: We had multiple months that let us accurately gauge that TvZ was balanced, so why change it? "It was balanced. So why change?" So let's say this is a legitimate question, rather than a statement saying that change wasn't needed. I think Blizzard saw ZvT wasn't balanced. Time and again, you would see the same thing. Hellion kite. Hellion kite. Creep spread contained, queens too far away from defenses assassinated. Zerg forced into roaches, cut on drones to push earlier roaches. Terrans doing banshee or marine/tank or whatever, zerg scouting problems, zerg forced to be so reactive and taking damage and continuously being kept on their heels. Most pro level zerg had lousy early creep, even ones with 4-5 queens, because you just couldn't risk your queens running out there until you had protective roaches. So zerg might nominally have 3 bases - they MIGHT - but they rarely had full drones going. So Terrans had it pretty easy. Zerg had to keep going inject inject creep tumor creep tumor, so many necessary actions, and a few seconds with hellions and scanner sweep killed the creep tumors, and the inject drone economics was thrown off by needing roaches. You had so many zerg actions neutralized by a few kiting hellions without any need for intensive Terran micro, plus zerg were forced to do the same repetitive game again and again, and zerg were always on the low end in terms of antiair, opening up Terran options even more. (You don't get hydras until late, hydras are fragile, hydras suck up vespene, and finally hydras are very slow off creep, which is even more of a problem when you can't even spread creep anyways.) Terran hellion open into Zerg on their heels and fixed tech, all day every day. Even players that are against the Queen buff have to admit that Terrans had ridiculous numbers of options against Zerg following Hellion kite. Marauders to kill roaches, marines to kill mutalisks, medivacs for drops, banshee for cloak harassing, mech, whatever! The entire tech tree was open for Terrans, while Zerg was always tied down to using a chunk of gas for roaches to stave off hellions, and needing another chunk of gas for banelings in case of heavy bio, plus so on and so forth, always having to sink so much into defenses and cutting their droning ability, giving Terrans that much more power to make sure Zerg couldn't even make it into the late game, and forcing Zerg into the same boring repetitive play. So Blizzard finally said "OK, this is a bit ridiculous", and now hellions can't kite queens. Seriously! Overdue. -- As far as saying queens are imba, queens are imba - first, it's only been a month, it's not a trivial change, and of course it's going to take even pro level players time to adjust. Second, I feel SC2 pros aren't on level with Brood War pros in terms of study and preparation and innovation to meet changes. Third, I think even SC2 pros that are claiming imbalance are not saying that it is queens that are imba so much as the resulting ability for Zerg to more reliably secure lategame, leading into a late game TvZ matchup that does not favor Terrans. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 24 2012 11:33 redruMBunny wrote: "It was balanced. So why change?" So let's say this is a legitimate question, rather than a statement saying that change wasn't needed. I think Blizzard saw ZvT wasn't balanced. Time and again, you would see the same thing. Hellion kite. Hellion kite. Creep spread contained, queens too far away from defenses assassinated. Zerg forced into roaches, cut on drones to push earlier roaches. Terrans doing banshee or marine/tank or whatever, zerg scouting problems, zerg forced to be so reactive and taking damage and continuously being kept on their heels. Most pro level zerg had lousy early creep, even ones with 4-5 queens, because you just couldn't risk your queens running out there until you had protective roaches. So zerg might nominally have 3 bases - they MIGHT - but they rarely had full drones going. So Terrans had it pretty easy. Zerg had to keep going inject inject creep tumor creep tumor, so many necessary actions, and a few seconds with hellions and scanner sweep killed the creep tumors, and the inject drone economics was thrown off by needing roaches. You had so many zerg actions neutralized by a few kiting hellions without any need for intensive Terran micro, plus zerg were forced to do the same repetitive game again and again, and zerg were always on the low end in terms of antiair, opening up Terran options even more. (You don't get hydras until late, hydras are fragile, hydras suck up vespene, and finally hydras are very slow off creep, which is even more of a problem when you can't even spread creep anyways.) Terran hellion open into Zerg on their heels and fixed tech, all day every day. Even players that are against the Queen buff have to admit that Terrans had ridiculous numbers of options against Zerg following Hellion kite. Marauders to kill roaches, marines to kill mutalisks, medivacs for drops, banshee for cloak harassing, mech, whatever! The entire tech tree was open for Terrans, while Zerg was always tied down to using a chunk of gas for roaches to stave off hellions, and needing another chunk of gas for banelings in case of heavy bio, plus so on and so forth, always having to sink so much into defenses and cutting their droning ability, giving Terrans that much more power to make sure Zerg couldn't even make it into the late game, and forcing Zerg into the same boring repetitive play. So Blizzard finally said "OK, this is a bit ridiculous", and now hellions can't kite queens. Seriously! Overdue. -- As far as saying queens are imba, queens are imba - first, it's only been a month, it's not a trivial change, and of course it's going to take even pro level players time to adjust. Second, I feel SC2 pros aren't on level with Brood War pros in terms of study and preparation and innovation to meet changes. Third, I think even SC2 pros that are claiming imbalance are not saying that it is queens that are imba so much as the resulting ability for Zerg to more reliably secure lategame, leading into a late game TvZ matchup that does not favor Terrans. You need a whopping 4 Roaches to handle a Hellion opener. That's entirely cost-effective; it doesn't put Zerg on the back foot at all, lol. Zerg isn't "even" when they're on 3bases with 70 Drones by 8 minutes and Creep more than halfway across the map. They're ahead. You can argue it being repetitive, but it still ended with the better player winning almost every time. I don't even know what you're on about with Hydras, rofl. | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On June 24 2012 11:33 redruMBunny wrote: "It was balanced. So why change?" So let's say this is a legitimate question, rather than a statement saying that change wasn't needed. I think Blizzard saw ZvT wasn't balanced. Time and again, you would see the same thing. Hellion kite. Hellion kite. Creep spread contained, queens too far away from defenses assassinated. Zerg forced into roaches, cut on drones to push earlier roaches. Terrans doing banshee or marine/tank or whatever, zerg scouting problems, zerg forced to be so reactive and taking damage and continuously being kept on their heels. Most pro level zerg had lousy early creep, even ones with 4-5 queens, because you just couldn't risk your queens running out there until you had protective roaches. So zerg might nominally have 3 bases - they MIGHT - but they rarely had full drones going. So Terrans had it pretty easy. Zerg had to keep going inject inject creep tumor creep tumor, so many necessary actions, and a few seconds with hellions and scanner sweep killed the creep tumors, and the inject drone economics was thrown off by needing roaches. You had so many zerg actions neutralized by a few kiting hellions without any need for intensive Terran micro, plus zerg were forced to do the same repetitive game again and again, and zerg were always on the low end in terms of antiair, opening up Terran options even more. (You don't get hydras until late, hydras are fragile, hydras suck up vespene, and finally hydras are very slow off creep, which is even more of a problem when you can't even spread creep anyways.) Terran hellion open into Zerg on their heels and fixed tech, all day every day. Even players that are against the Queen buff have to admit that Terrans had ridiculous numbers of options against Zerg following Hellion kite. Marauders to kill roaches, marines to kill mutalisks, medivacs for drops, banshee for cloak harassing, mech, whatever! The entire tech tree was open for Terrans, while Zerg was always tied down to using a chunk of gas for roaches to stave off hellions, and needing another chunk of gas for banelings in case of heavy bio, plus so on and so forth, always having to sink so much into defenses and cutting their droning ability, giving Terrans that much more power to make sure Zerg couldn't even make it into the late game, and forcing Zerg into the same boring repetitive play. So Blizzard finally said "OK, this is a bit ridiculous", and now hellions can't kite queens. Seriously! Overdue. -- As far as saying queens are imba, queens are imba - first, it's only been a month, it's not a trivial change, and of course it's going to take even pro level players time to adjust. Second, I feel SC2 pros aren't on level with Brood War pros in terms of study and preparation and innovation to meet changes. Third, I think even SC2 pros that are claiming imbalance are not saying that it is queens that are imba so much as the resulting ability for Zerg to more reliably secure lategame, leading into a late game TvZ matchup that does not favor Terrans. You make it sound as if the Terran had to do nothing at all while maintaining a hellion presence to keep the creep under control. Please do not talk about using gas to stave off hellions, as if marauders, stim, concussive, banshee, cloak, and medivacs don't gas. I understand that everyone will have some bias to their favoured race. But this is biased beyond belief. | ||
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][Primarch][
Sweden302 Posts
On June 24 2012 10:21 Crookie wrote: Lets keep crying shall we? After 80 pages of complaining, weve made so much progress so far! Fuck actually trying to do anything about it. Crying on TL is the way to go!! Great work guys! ok dudes this guy is a troll, dont feed it. | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On June 24 2012 11:33 redruMBunny wrote: "It was balanced. So why change?" So let's say this is a legitimate question, rather than a statement saying that change wasn't needed. I think Blizzard saw ZvT wasn't balanced. Time and again, you would see the same thing. Hellion kite. Hellion kite. Creep spread contained, queens too far away from defenses assassinated. Zerg forced into roaches, cut on drones to push earlier roaches. Terrans doing banshee or marine/tank or whatever, zerg scouting problems, zerg forced to be so reactive and taking damage and continuously being kept on their heels. Most pro level zerg had lousy early creep, even ones with 4-5 queens, because you just couldn't risk your queens running out there until you had protective roaches. So zerg might nominally have 3 bases - they MIGHT - but they rarely had full drones going. So Terrans had it pretty easy. Zerg had to keep going inject inject creep tumor creep tumor, so many necessary actions, and a few seconds with hellions and scanner sweep killed the creep tumors, and the inject drone economics was thrown off by needing roaches. You had so many zerg actions neutralized by a few kiting hellions without any need for intensive Terran micro, plus zerg were forced to do the same repetitive game again and again, and zerg were always on the low end in terms of antiair, opening up Terran options even more. (You don't get hydras until late, hydras are fragile, hydras suck up vespene, and finally hydras are very slow off creep, which is even more of a problem when you can't even spread creep anyways.) Terran hellion open into Zerg on their heels and fixed tech, all day every day. Even players that are against the Queen buff have to admit that Terrans had ridiculous numbers of options against Zerg following Hellion kite. Marauders to kill roaches, marines to kill mutalisks, medivacs for drops, banshee for cloak harassing, mech, whatever! The entire tech tree was open for Terrans, while Zerg was always tied down to using a chunk of gas for roaches to stave off hellions, and needing another chunk of gas for banelings in case of heavy bio, plus so on and so forth, always having to sink so much into defenses and cutting their droning ability, giving Terrans that much more power to make sure Zerg couldn't even make it into the late game, and forcing Zerg into the same boring repetitive play. So Blizzard finally said "OK, this is a bit ridiculous", and now hellions can't kite queens. Seriously! Overdue. -- As far as saying queens are imba, queens are imba - first, it's only been a month, it's not a trivial change, and of course it's going to take even pro level players time to adjust. Second, I feel SC2 pros aren't on level with Brood War pros in terms of study and preparation and innovation to meet changes. Third, I think even SC2 pros that are claiming imbalance are not saying that it is queens that are imba so much as the resulting ability for Zerg to more reliably secure lategame, leading into a late game TvZ matchup that does not favor Terrans. Interesting 13th post there buddy. | ||
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redruMBunny
74 Posts
Say you're driving your car downhill, and that you have run out of gas. (Suppose you didn't notice the engine stopped and that your fuel gauge was broken.) Now let's say you pull into a garage, still coasting downhill, apply the brakes and park, and ask the mechanic to service your car. So let's say your mechanic notices the fuel gauge is broken, and fixes it. But now let's say you get in your car, and not surprisingly, it doesn't go anyplace because it's out of gas. Further, let's say that where before your gas tank read full, it now reads empty, because your fuel gauge has been fixed. You leap out and shout "FUEL GAUGE IMBA! I had no problems driving to the garage! You screwed with my fuel gauge, now my car doesn't work! Change it back!" -- Which is to say, maybe queens aren't broken. Maybe all fixing queens did was to make clear that TvZ late game needs a fix. (If it does, which I'm not commenting on at the moment.) | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On June 24 2012 11:52 redruMBunny wrote: Say you're driving your car downhill, and that you have run out of gas. (Suppose you didn't notice the engine stopped and that your fuel gauge was broken.) Now let's say you pull into a garage, still coasting downhill, apply the brakes and park, and ask the mechanic to service your car. So let's say your mechanic notices the fuel gauge is broken, and fixes it. But now let's say you get in your car, and not surprisingly, it doesn't go anyplace because it's out of gas. Further, let's say that where before your gas tank read full, it now reads empty, because your fuel gauge has been fixed. You leap out and shout "FUEL GAUGE IMBA! I had no problems driving to the garage! You screwed with my fuel gauge, now my car doesn't work! Change it back!" ...where is the meme for - Are you fucking kidding me? | ||
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SnipedSoul
Canada2158 Posts
On June 24 2012 11:52 redruMBunny wrote: Claiming Zerg imba based on queens is like this, or at least I feel it is. Say you're driving your car downhill, and that you have run out of gas. (Suppose you didn't notice the engine stopped and that your fuel gauge was broken.) Now let's say you pull into a garage, still coasting downhill, apply the brakes and park, and ask the mechanic to service your car. So let's say your mechanic notices the fuel gauge is broken, and fixes it. But now let's say you get in your car, and not surprisingly, it doesn't go anyplace because it's out of gas. Further, let's say that where before your gas tank read full, it now reads empty, because your fuel gauge has been fixed. You leap out and shout "FUEL GAUGE IMBA! I had no problems driving to the garage! You screwed with my fuel gauge, now my car doesn't work! Change it back!" -- Which is to say, maybe queens aren't broken. Maybe all fixing queens did was to make clear that TvZ late game needs a fix. (If it does, which I'm not commenting on at the moment.) So the matchup was broken before blizzard changed the queen? | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On June 24 2012 11:52 redruMBunny wrote: Claiming Zerg imba based on queens is like this, or at least I feel it is. Say you're driving your car downhill, and that you have run out of gas. (Suppose you didn't notice the engine stopped and that your fuel gauge was broken.) Now let's say you pull into a garage, still coasting downhill, apply the brakes and park, and ask the mechanic to service your car. So let's say your mechanic notices the fuel gauge is broken, and fixes it. But now let's say you get in your car, and not surprisingly, it doesn't go anyplace because it's out of gas. Further, let's say that where before your gas tank read full, it now reads empty, because your fuel gauge has been fixed. You leap out and shout "FUEL GAUGE IMBA! I had no problems driving to the garage! You screwed with my fuel gauge, now my car doesn't work! Change it back!" -- Which is to say, maybe queens aren't broken. Maybe all fixing queens did was to make clear that TvZ late game needs a fix. (If it does, which I'm not commenting on at the moment.) I think whats broken is Zerg macro mechanics. They're straight up too strong compared to Toss and especially Terran. If one race rebuildings significantly faster than the other those units SHOULD be significantly worse. But lategame Zerg isn't it trades too well with everything in the game for how easy it is to just switch into something else after an even trade to just overrun your opponent. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On June 24 2012 11:33 redruMBunny wrote: "It was balanced. So why change?" So let's say this is a legitimate question, rather than a statement saying that change wasn't needed. I think Blizzard saw ZvT wasn't balanced. You place confidence into Blizzard as if they made a correct decision. | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On June 24 2012 12:01 Chaggi wrote: I think it's cute that Zerg and Protoss think that Terrans are just on the forums whining when half of us have multiple Terran streams open just to see if there's a new solid build that we can steal so we don't have to resort to cheesing every Zerg. ^^^ Man speaks the truth. Illusion, Demuslim, ForGG, Byun, Happy, Mvp, and MarineKing have made absolutely no progress in the past week... | ||
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redruMBunny
74 Posts
You need a whopping 4 Roaches to handle a Hellion opener. That's entirely cost-effective; it doesn't put Zerg on the back foot at all, lol. Zerg isn't "even" when they're on 3bases with 70 Drones by 8 minutes and Creep more than halfway across the map. They're ahead. You can argue it being repetitive, but it still ended with the better player winning almost every time. I don't even know what you're on about with Hydras, rofl. And just what do you base your judgment regarding which player was "better" on? If Terran was overpowered, and a particular Terran player beat a Zerg player consistently, and Terran were balanced, then of course the Terran player might lose after the patch. As far as your "rofl"ing, it's OK by me if you BM. Doesn't help your point any. The thing about hellion harass wasn't that you just needed a few roaches whatever. You had to keep queens in base, build sunkens, roaches, plus think about all the other things Terran was up to. Maybe I didn't make this clear. All Terran committed to was building barracks, factory, and reactor, which they were inevitably going to build anyways in any game that wasn't pure marauder/marine push. Besides which all this still kept Zerg creep contained, which point you totally ignored. If you let Zerg go 70 drone by 8 minutes anyways and creep halfway across the map, you deserve a loss. Sounds like zero Terran scouting zero Terran harass to me, and that's not the sort of game high level Terrans should think should end in a win - unless they're cripples relying on Hellion imba to get them to ranks they didn't deserve. | ||
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Sroobz
United States1377 Posts
On June 24 2012 12:05 redruMBunny wrote: And just what do you base your judgment regarding which player was "better" on? If Terran was overpowered, and a particular Terran player beat a Zerg player consistently, and Terran were balanced, then of course the Terran player might lose after the patch. As far as your "rofl"ing, it's OK by me if you BM. Doesn't help your point any. The thing about hellion harass wasn't that you just needed a few roaches whatever. You had to keep queens in base, build sunkens, roaches, plus think about all the other things Terran was up to. Maybe I didn't make this clear. All Terran committed to was building barracks, factory, and reactor, which they were inevitably going to build anyways in any game that wasn't pure marauder/marine push. Besides which all this still kept Zerg creep contained, which point you totally ignored. If you let Zerg go 70 drone by 8 minutes anyways and creep halfway across the map, you deserve a loss. Sounds like zero Terran scouting zero Terran harass to me, and that's not the sort of game high level Terrans should think should end in a win - unless they're cripples relying on Hellion imba to get them to ranks they didn't deserve. Do you actually play or watch SC2? It's not like these insanely high level Ts are letting Zerg players just easily drone up to 60 and creep spread across the map. Mvp, MarineKing, Byun, etc are trying everything and throwing everything at their opponent and basically nothing is happening. User was warned for this post | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On June 24 2012 10:21 Crookie wrote: Lets keep crying shall we? After 80 pages of complaining, weve made so much progress so far! Fuck actually trying to do anything about it. Crying on TL is the way to go!! Great work guys! usually crying is pointless, but we need blizzard to take action. The way things are now, they won't patch the game till HoTs, meaning if you make a living playing terran you are completely fucked for 1 year. It is very rare when so many pros blatantly argue for not even slight imbalance or slightly too strong, but they come out and say the matchup is almost unwinnable and broken. This cannot be ignored by blizzard, and they need to acknowledge the fact that they fucked up big time. So yes, every terran continue to qq till blizzard notices. | ||
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