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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
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On June 24 2012 09:54 Sroobz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:36 tranmillitary wrote:
The only thing i hate about these patches.... NOT ALL TERRAN'S CAN PLAY LIKE MVP AND MKP.
I'm pretty sure in masters and diamond leagues on NA.... the majority of players are Toss or zerg. When i play a Terran, i Laugh. I'm pretty sure if they nerf Terran anymore, there's gonna be like less than 20 percent terrans in the Masters or diamond leagues. Bad argument man. We should only be worried about the balance when Mvp and MKP play. They are the best of the best. The fastest of the fastest. If they can't win vs Z (less than 20 winrate, which is what they are at now) something is wrong.
Not really, the problem with these type of arguments is that it assumes that you're just doing a sort of number crunching deal but it's not. The game is dynamic and requires strategy obviously, the biggest problem is that there may be strategies to utterly destroy zerg (similar to the 1/1/1 for awhile against protoss), but they haven't been discovered yet. it's not easy to understand balance in this game as everyone tries to. A month's worth of winrates, hell even a year is hard to use as clear cut evidence because of changes in meta, small sample set, patches, etc. etc. I understand that this is all we have, but at the same time it's not really that good of evidence by any means. Ironically enough, players having trouble after a patch as many terrans are now, doesn't conclusively in anyway mean that the patch is imbalanced.
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On June 24 2012 09:49 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.. so marines get +2 range how do you feel? if you come share your opinion on it here i'll tell you it's a meta thing and that you just need to adapt. newsflash: you're on a starcraft 2 website and you clicked the forum button, and then this topic. you're not going to change people's opinions by coming in here and championing a meta-solution to this, so i don't really understand why you're disappointed.
If you honestly think the queen change was as bad as a plus 2 range increase to marines, youre delusional. If you actually read my post, you'd see that I said that I did not expect my solution to be an end-all be-all to the current problems terran has. I find it hard to believe that people have been playing brood war for over 10 years and still new builds to do while terran has supposedly "tried everything" in the first two years of SC2. Maybe the buff was too much? How do we even know yet? Nothing new has even been suggested yet and once again I ask to see vods of new things that have been attempted. Not once has someone offered any proof. Still, all this is is a bunch of unproven complaints.
I am dissappointed that the website that is supposed to be the number one source for SC2 discussion and strategy has succumbed to a giant terran QQ circle jerk, where no one cares for anything other than quoted previous balance whines and pouting that ABSOLUTLY NOTHING can be done to try to fix the problem at hand.
Having fun sitting in this thread, crying for months for blizzard to fix the game. This thread has really made a large amount of progress in solving the problem. Carry on the way you guys are going. Maybe if we reach 200 pages of crying, blizzard will revert the change and starcraft will be saved!!!~~!!!!
Pathetic
User was warned for this post
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On June 24 2012 10:00 Crookie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:49 c0sm0naut wrote:On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.. so marines get +2 range how do you feel? if you come share your opinion on it here i'll tell you it's a meta thing and that you just need to adapt. newsflash: you're on a starcraft 2 website and you clicked the forum button, and then this topic. you're not going to change people's opinions by coming in here and championing a meta-solution to this, so i don't really understand why you're disappointed. If you honestly think the queen change was as bad as a plus 2 range increase to marines, youre delusional. If you actually read my post, you'd see that I said that I did not expect my solution to be an end-all be-all to the current problems terran has. I find it hard to believe that people have been playing brood war for over 10 years and still new builds to do while terran has supposedly "tried everything" in the first two years of SC2. Maybe the buff was too much? How do we even know yet? Nothing new has even been suggested yet and once again I ask to see vods of new things that have been attempted. Not once has someone offered any proof. Still, all this is is a bunch of unproven complaints. I am dissappointed that the website that is supposed to be the number one source for SC2 discussion and strategy has succumbed to a giant terran QQ circle jerk, where no one cares for anything other than quoted previous balance whines and pouting that ABSOLUTLY NOTHING can be done to try to fix the problem at hand. Having fun sitting in this thread, crying for months for blizzard to fix the game. This thread has really made a large amount of progress in solving the problem. Carry on the way you guys are going. Maybe if we reach 200 pages of crying, blizzard will revert the change and starcraft will be saved!!!~~!!!! Pathetic
I thought it was 100 pages?
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On June 24 2012 09:49 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.. so marines get +2 range how do you feel? if you come share your opinion on it here i'll tell you it's a meta thing and that you just need to adapt. newsflash: you're on a starcraft 2 website and you clicked the forum button, and then this topic. you're not going to change people's opinions by coming in here and championing a meta-solution to this, so i don't really understand why you're disappointed.
yeah this is what I'm trying to tell these dudes, lets say that marines got +6 range and +7 attack, the same dudes who tell us to stop whining and try new builds would stand there looking really mad while we say - "hey our marines are not OP you have to adapt to the metagame, less qq more skill etc...all the while we are a-moving our marines to our "would be fellow terrans" in GM.
The truth is that they hate us, they want us to suffer and if we die they would say good riddance. I started playing this game 7 months ago and missed the infamous era of "Terran op". Had the goal of hitting masters before the summer was over, ended last season in top 8 diamond but when I play Z and P masters I feel that they have the advantage, it's like I actually have to be twice as good. And that people actually think that the helion opener was OP.....it's just flat out pathetic.
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On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I give up. I guess you guys dont realize that 80 pages of complaining does absolutely nothing to help solve the problem.
Maybe if you guys keep it up for another 100 pages, blizzard will change their mind and revert the buff. If it has taken you guys 2 years to realize that buffs and nerfs will require a change in the metagame, I am surethat you have not actually been following the game at all.
If you are going to complain that terrans have been trying new things, please, link the vod. I would love to see what new builds have been using. Its pretty damn obvious that the old builds no longer work. Slamming you head against the wall over and over again with the same builds will get you no where.
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.
Good luck on convincing blizzard to change their mind... It seems like no one is preparing for the contrary.
You do realize that Terrans will only do builds that they think they can win with in tourneys right? This means the builds they have spent countless hours practising, you know after the patch it's really easy to look at the tourney games and say Terrans are not trying new things, but what are they suppose to do? Try out a new build they have barely practised? If you watch any Terran stream at all, you will see they trying new things and getting smashed while doing it, it's all part of the learning process, I don't think Zerg has to be patched, but to say or even imply that Terran's are not trying new things makes you seem like you are out of touch with the scene
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i've been playing a lot of d3 lately and striclty observing sc2 via GSL. From what i see, the queen buff has only made terran cheese more difficult to pull off. TBO, ZvT was pretty frustrating to watch because terran would constantly proxy rax and bunker rush. Now that cheese is no longer the most viable option every terran player on TL forums is up in arms. Give it some time to play out... Terran now has to put a lot more thought into their rushes. Perviously, terran would proxy and bunker rush, if that failed, it became a standard game. No longer is this a reliable option and i like the change. If a toss 2 gate fails or a zerg 6 pool fails the game is over, but terran cheese was never game ending. All blizzard did was make terran cheese more difficult to pull off. High lvl Terrans now have to rely more on mechanics and decision making...
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On June 24 2012 10:03 kodas wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I give up. I guess you guys dont realize that 80 pages of complaining does absolutely nothing to help solve the problem.
Maybe if you guys keep it up for another 100 pages, blizzard will change their mind and revert the buff. If it has taken you guys 2 years to realize that buffs and nerfs will require a change in the metagame, I am surethat you have not actually been following the game at all.
If you are going to complain that terrans have been trying new things, please, link the vod. I would love to see what new builds have been using. Its pretty damn obvious that the old builds no longer work. Slamming you head against the wall over and over again with the same builds will get you no where.
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.
Good luck on convincing blizzard to change their mind... It seems like no one is preparing for the contrary. You do realize that Terrans will only do builds that they think they can win with in tourneys right? This means the builds they have spent countless hours practising, you after the patch it's really easy to look at the tourney games and say Terrans are not trying new things, but what are they suppose to do? Try out a new build they have barely practised? If you watch any Terran stream at all, you will see they trying new things and getting smashed while doing it, it's all part of the learning process, I don't think Zerg has to be patched, but to say or even imply that Terran's are not trying new things makes you seem like you are out of touch with the scene
And they will likely find something, and if not blizzard will eventually change it, despite all the shit they get they're pretty good in terms of balance
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On June 24 2012 09:45 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:44 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 09:38 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:37 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It did radically change creep spread. Terrans lost the ability to successfully stop creep spread at an earlier time. Creep spread is exponential. With queens to defend the creep and place down more tumors at an earlier time, more creep will be spread at a much faster rate. Or it could have been spread just as fast if zergs had realized pre-patch that getting 5 early queens helps defend against early pressure and allows for massive creep spread. There's not really much doubt that it's easier, but the biggest reason you see crazy amounts of creep spread is that zerg finally realizes that by getting a ton of queens allows for so much advantage. You're attributing the change to the range when it was possible all along. But hellions could snipe tumors without risking death before the change Yeah if you make 6 hellions you may manage to snipe 1 creep tumor, but you're likely to lose a hellion or two against 5 queens, and oh yeah there will be 5 more tumors in a minute anyways. Pre-patch you were lucky to ever see more than 3 queens out, now it's not uncommon to see 5 or 6 before they take a third. Yes range does effect this, but that's not the issue. The terran will have to adapt and stop trying reactor hellion openings because they're not useful now that zergs (finally) realize that queens are awesome and 5 or 6 of them can stop tons of harass.
Pre-patch, reactor hellion before CC was more common because it could slow down the creep spread before it really got started. With good micro you could kite queens and snipe creep tumors, forcing spines to relocate, opening possibilies for run-bys. As it is now the first queens alone can force the hellions back and the hellions will take considerably more damage. Pre-patch you actually had to build spines/speedlings/roaches to push the hellions back. I don't think making 5-6 of 3 range queens would be enough. Also it takes a long time to build those queens, and not really having the creep spread started before u have 5-6 queens would should it down enough for the hellion opening to pay off.
3 range queens would have to stay in front of the creep tumors/off of the creep in order to defend them. Which makes it a lot easier for hellion run-bys. I also think we could see terran mixing in a few marines and marauders to help the hellions if it's basically only 3 range queens that the zerg is defending with,
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[QUOTE]On June 24 2012 09:58 Ace.Xile wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 24 2012 09:54 Sroobz wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 24 2012 09:36 tranmillitary wrote:
The only thing i hate about these patches.... NOT ALL TERRAN'S CAN PLAY LIKE MVP AND MKP.
I'm pretty sure in masters and diamond leagues on NA.... the majority of players are Toss or zerg. When i play a Terran, i Laugh. I'm pretty sure if they nerf Terran anymore, there's gonna be like less than 20 percent terrans in the Masters or diamond leagues. [/QUOTE]
Bad argument man. We should only be worried about the balance when Mvp and MKP play. They are the best of the best. The fastest of the fastest. If they can't win vs Z (less than 20 winrate, which is what they are at now) something is wrong.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I wonder if Mvp even has the slightest about the army he has in the west who are fighting for him. Where he leads the army & they follow for good or for bad... like Bush.
ZING
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There's nothing wrong with tvz. Give it 8 months - 1yr, then we'll talk.
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On June 24 2012 10:00 Crookie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:49 c0sm0naut wrote:On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.. so marines get +2 range how do you feel? if you come share your opinion on it here i'll tell you it's a meta thing and that you just need to adapt. newsflash: you're on a starcraft 2 website and you clicked the forum button, and then this topic. you're not going to change people's opinions by coming in here and championing a meta-solution to this, so i don't really understand why you're disappointed. If you honestly think the queen change was as bad as a plus 2 range increase to marines, youre delusional. If you actually read my post, you'd see that I said that I did not expect my solution to be an end-all be-all to the current problems terran has. I find it hard to believe that people have been playing brood war for over 10 years and still new builds to do while terran has supposedly "tried everything" in the first two years of SC2. Maybe the buff was too much? How do we even know yet? Nothing new has even been suggested yet and once again I ask to see vods of new things that have been attempted. Not once has someone offered any proof. Still, all this is is a bunch of unproven complaints. I am dissappointed that the website that is supposed to be the number one source for SC2 discussion and strategy has succumbed to a giant terran QQ circle jerk, where no one cares for anything other than quoted previous balance whines and pouting that ABSOLUTLY NOTHING can be done to try to fix the problem at hand. Having fun sitting in this thread, crying for months for blizzard to fix the game. This thread has really made a large amount of progress in solving the problem. Carry on the way you guys are going. Maybe if we reach 200 pages of crying, blizzard will revert the change and starcraft will be saved!!!~~!!!! Pathetic
Amazing argument. You're taking the "try different things" route and tacking a "do that for 10 years" corollary on top.
A completely unnecessary, thoughtless, untested balance change was introduced and it completely broke the matchup. There was nothing wrong with TvZ. It was balanced and fun to watch. This idiotic change broke it.
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On June 24 2012 10:05 Fission wrote:
There's nothing wrong with tvz. Give it 8 months - 1yr, then we'll talk.
Well if I have to watch another month of 6 minute 3 hatch zerg ----> 13 minute hive I'm going to quit watching SC2. TvZ was great... 8 months...blow my fucking head off
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On June 24 2012 10:00 Crookie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:49 c0sm0naut wrote:On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.. so marines get +2 range how do you feel? if you come share your opinion on it here i'll tell you it's a meta thing and that you just need to adapt. newsflash: you're on a starcraft 2 website and you clicked the forum button, and then this topic. you're not going to change people's opinions by coming in here and championing a meta-solution to this, so i don't really understand why you're disappointed. If you honestly think the queen change was as bad as a plus 2 range increase to marines, youre delusional. If you actually read my post, you'd see that I said that I did not expect my solution to be an end-all be-all to the current problems terran has. I find it hard to believe that people have been playing brood war for over 10 years and still new builds to do while terran has supposedly "tried everything" in the first two years of SC2. Maybe the buff was too much? How do we even know yet? Nothing new has even been suggested yet and once again I ask to see vods of new things that have been attempted. Not once has someone offered any proof. Still, all this is is a bunch of unproven complaints. I am dissappointed that the website that is supposed to be the number one source for SC2 discussion and strategy has succumbed to a giant terran QQ circle jerk, where no one cares for anything other than quoted previous balance whines and pouting that ABSOLUTLY NOTHING can be done to try to fix the problem at hand. Having fun sitting in this thread, crying for months for blizzard to fix the game. This thread has really made a large amount of progress in solving the problem. Carry on the way you guys are going. Maybe if we reach 200 pages of crying, blizzard will revert the change and starcraft will be saved!!!~~!!!! Pathetic
you have not watched the various raven-banshee-helion openings? fast third or sometimes fourth CC, marine-marauder pushes, bunker for creep deny. And a bunch of other builds?
Sit down a week and follow all the terran streamers and then come back and try not to make stuff up. There could be a magic build ofc...but don't stomp in here and pretend that terrans are not trying cause that either makes you a liar or just ignorant.
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On June 24 2012 09:45 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:44 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 09:38 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:37 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It did radically change creep spread. Terrans lost the ability to successfully stop creep spread at an earlier time. Creep spread is exponential. With queens to defend the creep and place down more tumors at an earlier time, more creep will be spread at a much faster rate. Or it could have been spread just as fast if zergs had realized pre-patch that getting 5 early queens helps defend against early pressure and allows for massive creep spread. There's not really much doubt that it's easier, but the biggest reason you see crazy amounts of creep spread is that zerg finally realizes that by getting a ton of queens allows for so much advantage. You're attributing the change to the range when it was possible all along. But hellions could snipe tumors without risking death before the change Yeah if you make 6 hellions you may manage to snipe 1 creep tumor, but you're likely to lose a hellion or two against 5 queens, and oh yeah there will be 5 more tumors in a minute anyways. Pre-patch you were lucky to ever see more than 3 queens out, now it's not uncommon to see 5 or 6 before they take a third. Yes range does effect this, but that's not the issue. The terran will have to adapt and stop trying reactor hellion openings because they're not useful now that zergs (finally) realize that queens are awesome and 5 or 6 of them can stop tons of harass. I have no doubt that in the next month or two terrans will adapt the same way protoss did against the other match ups when they were in a crazy slump.
The thing is what would that be even looking at it logically ? I don't see it.Helions/Banshees at least don't face certain death when approaching Zerg territory. Bio openers without Stim won't work in the mappool currently played unless proxied . A really fast Stim still comes too late to do anything at that point the creepspread will already be halfway across the map. Marine Tanks without Stim is very bad and once speed hits is DEAD.
Maybe Helion Marauder and pray to god he doesn't scout you and goes fast Muta ?
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On June 24 2012 09:58 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:54 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 09:36 tranmillitary wrote:
The only thing i hate about these patches.... NOT ALL TERRAN'S CAN PLAY LIKE MVP AND MKP.
I'm pretty sure in masters and diamond leagues on NA.... the majority of players are Toss or zerg. When i play a Terran, i Laugh. I'm pretty sure if they nerf Terran anymore, there's gonna be like less than 20 percent terrans in the Masters or diamond leagues. Bad argument man. We should only be worried about the balance when Mvp and MKP play. They are the best of the best. The fastest of the fastest. If they can't win vs Z (less than 20 winrate, which is what they are at now) something is wrong. Not really, the problem with these type of arguments is that it assumes that you're just doing a sort of number crunching deal but it's not. The game is dynamic and requires strategy obviously, the biggest problem is that there may be strategies to utterly destroy zerg (similar to the 1/1/1 for awhile against protoss), but they haven't been discovered yet. it's not easy to understand balance in this game as everyone tries to. A month's worth of winrates, hell even a year is hard to use as clear cut evidence because of changes in meta, small sample set, patches, etc. etc. I understand that this is all we have, but at the same time it's not really that good of evidence by any means. Ironically enough, players having trouble after a patch as many terrans are now, doesn't conclusively in anyway mean that the patch is imbalanced.
You CAN try to account for the POSSIBILITY that a future meta game shift could bring back balance into the match-up, but considering the match-up was very balanced pre-patch, it just brings the question as to the necessity of the patch in the first place. If it was to make TvZ more exciting then it was a poor change to that regard. Like, your argument is trying to justify a pointless buff that shouldn't have made it to patch in the first place. If that meta game swing comes in 6 months and Z's need the range back, give it to them then.
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On June 24 2012 10:05 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 10:03 kodas wrote:On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I give up. I guess you guys dont realize that 80 pages of complaining does absolutely nothing to help solve the problem.
Maybe if you guys keep it up for another 100 pages, blizzard will change their mind and revert the buff. If it has taken you guys 2 years to realize that buffs and nerfs will require a change in the metagame, I am surethat you have not actually been following the game at all.
If you are going to complain that terrans have been trying new things, please, link the vod. I would love to see what new builds have been using. Its pretty damn obvious that the old builds no longer work. Slamming you head against the wall over and over again with the same builds will get you no where.
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.
Good luck on convincing blizzard to change their mind... It seems like no one is preparing for the contrary. You do realize that Terrans will only do builds that they think they can win with in tourneys right? This means the builds they have spent countless hours practising, you after the patch it's really easy to look at the tourney games and say Terrans are not trying new things, but what are they suppose to do? Try out a new build they have barely practised? If you watch any Terran stream at all, you will see they trying new things and getting smashed while doing it, it's all part of the learning process, I don't think Zerg has to be patched, but to say or even imply that Terran's are not trying new things makes you seem like you are out of touch with the scene And they will likely find something, and if not blizzard will eventually change it, despite all the shit they get they're pretty good in terms of balance
Considering they never managed to even remotely came close to balancing Wc3 ( i was Undead so ofc i don't trust a blizzard balancing team ) i disagree with this. Could still be worse but i don't think they're doing that great of a job. ( Other Studios are just much much worse or don't even try to give a shit )
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I doubt a month is long enough to accurately gauge. Well, unless you're a fan of the same kind of knee jerk patching that got the game into this mess to begin with.
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On June 24 2012 10:06 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 10:00 Crookie wrote:On June 24 2012 09:49 c0sm0naut wrote:On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.. so marines get +2 range how do you feel? if you come share your opinion on it here i'll tell you it's a meta thing and that you just need to adapt. newsflash: you're on a starcraft 2 website and you clicked the forum button, and then this topic. you're not going to change people's opinions by coming in here and championing a meta-solution to this, so i don't really understand why you're disappointed. If you honestly think the queen change was as bad as a plus 2 range increase to marines, youre delusional. If you actually read my post, you'd see that I said that I did not expect my solution to be an end-all be-all to the current problems terran has. I find it hard to believe that people have been playing brood war for over 10 years and still new builds to do while terran has supposedly "tried everything" in the first two years of SC2. Maybe the buff was too much? How do we even know yet? Nothing new has even been suggested yet and once again I ask to see vods of new things that have been attempted. Not once has someone offered any proof. Still, all this is is a bunch of unproven complaints. I am dissappointed that the website that is supposed to be the number one source for SC2 discussion and strategy has succumbed to a giant terran QQ circle jerk, where no one cares for anything other than quoted previous balance whines and pouting that ABSOLUTLY NOTHING can be done to try to fix the problem at hand. Having fun sitting in this thread, crying for months for blizzard to fix the game. This thread has really made a large amount of progress in solving the problem. Carry on the way you guys are going. Maybe if we reach 200 pages of crying, blizzard will revert the change and starcraft will be saved!!!~~!!!! Pathetic Amazing argument. You're taking the "try different things" route and tacking a "do that for 10 years" corollary on top. A completely unnecessary, thoughtless, untested balance change was introduced and it completely broke the matchup. There was nothing wrong with TvZ. It was balanced and fun to watch. This idiotic change broke it.
Lets keep crying shall we? After 80 pages of complaining, weve made so much progress so far! Fuck actually trying to do anything about it. Crying on TL is the way to go!! Great work guys!
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On June 24 2012 10:00 Crookie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:49 c0sm0naut wrote:On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.. so marines get +2 range how do you feel? if you come share your opinion on it here i'll tell you it's a meta thing and that you just need to adapt. newsflash: you're on a starcraft 2 website and you clicked the forum button, and then this topic. you're not going to change people's opinions by coming in here and championing a meta-solution to this, so i don't really understand why you're disappointed. If you honestly think the queen change was as bad as a plus 2 range increase to marines, youre delusional. If you actually read my post, you'd see that I said that I did not expect my solution to be an end-all be-all to the current problems terran has. I find it hard to believe that people have been playing brood war for over 10 years and still new builds to do while terran has supposedly "tried everything" in the first two years of SC2. Maybe the buff was too much? How do we even know yet? Nothing new has even been suggested yet and once again I ask to see vods of new things that have been attempted. Not once has someone offered any proof. Still, all this is is a bunch of unproven complaints. I am dissappointed that the website that is supposed to be the number one source for SC2 discussion and strategy has succumbed to a giant terran QQ circle jerk, where no one cares for anything other than quoted previous balance whines and pouting that ABSOLUTLY NOTHING can be done to try to fix the problem at hand. Having fun sitting in this thread, crying for months for blizzard to fix the game. This thread has really made a large amount of progress in solving the problem. Carry on the way you guys are going. Maybe if we reach 200 pages of crying, blizzard will revert the change and starcraft will be saved!!!~~!!!! Pathetic
totally not calling those changes equal. making a point that you're not getting i guess. all game changes are based on feedback, this is a place where it is generated or at least thought about. no crying going on here, just feedback. sorry you clicked the forum button, then the button for this thread, then typed out responses to arguments and wasted your time on us. :D
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EPT
