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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
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On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? T his is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable.
you're saying that the ability zerg has to make 30 lings is related to the queen and OL buff?
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On June 24 2012 09:30 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? T his is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. you're saying that the ability zerg has to make 30 lings is related to the queen and OL buff?
Most terrans really think EVERYTHING is because of the queen buff. I really see blizzard nerfing queens , and then terrans will realise that the matchup is still heavily Z favoured.
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On June 24 2012 09:33 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:30 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? T his is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. you're saying that the ability zerg has to make 30 lings is related to the queen and OL buff? Most terrans really think EVERYTHING is because of the queen buff. I really see blizzard nerfing queens , and then terrans will realise that the matchup is still heavily Z favoured.
The queen change makes infestors and hive come out much easier and quicker :/
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On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable.
I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It's like terrans think that EVERYTHING changed with a range buff and it didn't stop over exaggerating.
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The only thing i hate about these patches.... NOT ALL TERRAN'S CAN PLAY LIKE MVP AND MKP.
I'm pretty sure in masters and diamond leagues on NA.... the majority of players are Toss or zerg. When i play a Terran, i Laugh. I'm pretty sure if they nerf Terran anymore, there's gonna be like less than 20 percent terrans in the Masters or diamond leagues.
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On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression.
It did radically change creep spread. Terrans lost the ability to successfully stop creep spread at an earlier time. Creep spread is exponential. With queens to defend the creep and place down more tumors at an earlier time, more creep will be spread at a much faster rate.
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On June 24 2012 09:37 Sroobz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It did radically change creep spread. Terrans lost the ability to successfully stop creep spread at an earlier time. Creep spread is exponential. With queens to defend the creep and place down more tumors at an earlier time, more creep will be spread at a much faster rate.
Or it could have been spread just as fast if zergs had realized pre-patch that getting 5 early queens helps defend against early pressure and allows for massive creep spread. There's not really much doubt that it's easier, but the biggest reason you see crazy amounts of creep spread is that zerg finally realizes that by getting a ton of queens allows for so much advantage. You're attributing the change to the range when it was possible all along.
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On June 24 2012 09:38 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:37 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It did radically change creep spread. Terrans lost the ability to successfully stop creep spread at an earlier time. Creep spread is exponential. With queens to defend the creep and place down more tumors at an earlier time, more creep will be spread at a much faster rate. Or it could have been spread just as fast if zergs had realized pre-patch that getting 5 early queens helps defend against early pressure and allows for massive creep spread.
At least Helions with the 3 Range Queen could dart in more often and snipe a tumor or two without losing half health. Now not even that is possible. You run in your Helions you do that exactly once afterwards back to your base to repair or they're dead . Once you return the creep has spread so far that you can just forget about containing it.
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On June 24 2012 09:40 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:38 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:37 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It did radically change creep spread. Terrans lost the ability to successfully stop creep spread at an earlier time. Creep spread is exponential. With queens to defend the creep and place down more tumors at an earlier time, more creep will be spread at a much faster rate. Or it could have been spread just as fast if zergs had realized pre-patch that getting 5 early queens helps defend against early pressure and allows for massive creep spread. At least Helions with the 3 Range Queen could dart in more often and snipe a tumor or two without losing half health. Now not even that is possible.
Doubtful, go get 5 queens even pre patch place them in front of your creep tumors (they'll be slow but hellions won't get by with good ling control) with a couple lings and youre safe to spread creep like there's nothing there at all. People are mistaking a range buff as the cause of the creep spread instead of the increased usage of the queen. Creep isn't spreading fast because of range 5 queens, it's because 5 creep tumors every minute or so and tons of queens make it hard to stop creep spread period.
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On June 24 2012 09:38 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:37 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It did radically change creep spread. Terrans lost the ability to successfully stop creep spread at an earlier time. Creep spread is exponential. With queens to defend the creep and place down more tumors at an earlier time, more creep will be spread at a much faster rate. Or it could have been spread just as fast if zergs had realized pre-patch that getting 5 early queens helps defend against early pressure and allows for massive creep spread. There's not really much doubt that it's easier, but the biggest reason you see crazy amounts of creep spread is that zerg finally realizes that by getting a ton of queens allows for so much advantage. You're attributing the change to the range when it was possible all along.
This is something I'm worried about. I'm worried Blizzard will reverse the queen buff and then say "okay it's back to how it was before, which was fine, so now everything is great" and leave it at that, when in reality the queen buff only made zergs more aware of how good queens really are and so reverting the buff won't actually change anything.
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I give up. I guess you guys dont realize that 80 pages of complaining does absolutely nothing to help solve the problem.
Maybe if you guys keep it up for another 100 pages, blizzard will change their mind and revert the buff. If it has taken you guys 2 years to realize that buffs and nerfs will require a change in the metagame, I am surethat you have not actually been following the game at all.
If you are going to complain that terrans have been trying new things, please, link the vod. I would love to see what new builds have been using. Its pretty damn obvious that the old builds no longer work. Slamming you head against the wall over and over again with the same builds will get you no where.
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.
Good luck on convincing blizzard to change their mind... It seems like no one is preparing for the contrary.
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On June 24 2012 09:38 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:37 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It did radically change creep spread. Terrans lost the ability to successfully stop creep spread at an earlier time. Creep spread is exponential. With queens to defend the creep and place down more tumors at an earlier time, more creep will be spread at a much faster rate. Or it could have been spread just as fast if zergs had realized pre-patch that getting 5 early queens helps defend against early pressure and allows for massive creep spread. There's not really much doubt that it's easier, but the biggest reason you see crazy amounts of creep spread is that zerg finally realizes that by getting a ton of queens allows for so much advantage. You're attributing the change to the range when it was possible all along.
But hellions could snipe tumors without risking death before the change
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On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It's like terrans think that EVERYTHING changed with a range buff and it didn't stop over exaggerating.
What people seem to not understand is the snowball effect of the queen buff and overlord buff gave to the matchup.
Just saw two terran streamers give up today (Demuslim and Dragon) after playing Zerg. lol, not implying anything, but I don't remember seeing Demuslim do that before.
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On June 24 2012 09:44 Sroobz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:38 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:37 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It did radically change creep spread. Terrans lost the ability to successfully stop creep spread at an earlier time. Creep spread is exponential. With queens to defend the creep and place down more tumors at an earlier time, more creep will be spread at a much faster rate. Or it could have been spread just as fast if zergs had realized pre-patch that getting 5 early queens helps defend against early pressure and allows for massive creep spread. There's not really much doubt that it's easier, but the biggest reason you see crazy amounts of creep spread is that zerg finally realizes that by getting a ton of queens allows for so much advantage. You're attributing the change to the range when it was possible all along. But hellions could snipe tumors without risking death before the change
Yeah if you make 6 hellions you may manage to snipe 1 creep tumor, but you're likely to lose a hellion or two against 5 queens, and oh yeah there will be 5 more tumors in a minute anyways. Pre-patch you were lucky to ever see more than 3 queens out, now it's not uncommon to see 5 or 6 before they take a third. Yes range does effect this, but that's not the issue. The terran will have to adapt and stop trying reactor hellion openings because they're not useful now that zergs (finally) realize that queens are awesome and 5 or 6 of them can stop tons of harass. I have no doubt that in the next month or two terrans will adapt the same way protoss did against the other match ups when they were in a crazy slump.
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On June 24 2012 09:45 EienShinwa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It's like terrans think that EVERYTHING changed with a range buff and it didn't stop over exaggerating. What people seem to not understand is the snowball effect of the queen buff and overlord buff gave to the matchup. Just saw two terran streamers give up today (Demuslim and Dragon) after playing Zerg. lol, not implying anything, but I don't remember seeing Demuslim do that before.
I would like to go ahead and mention that Demuslim used builds from pre-patch. He did not use queens in anyway and complaining that zerg is OP based upon that game is simply arguing that zerg was overpowered before the patch. And I'm sorry to say that if you think that's the case, youre delusional.
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On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem..
so marines get +2 range
how do you feel?
if you come share your opinion on it here i'll tell you it's a meta thing and that you just need to adapt.
newsflash: you're on a starcraft 2 website and you clicked the forum button, and then this topic. you're not going to change people's opinions by coming in here and championing a meta-solution to this, so i don't really understand why you're disappointed.
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On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I give up. I guess you guys dont realize that 80 pages of complaining does absolutely nothing to help solve the problem.
Maybe if you guys keep it up for another 100 pages, blizzard will change their mind and revert the buff. If it has taken you guys 2 years to realize that buffs and nerfs will require a change in the metagame, I am surethat you have not actually been following the game at all.
If you are going to complain that terrans have been trying new things, please, link the vod. I would love to see what new builds have been using. Its pretty damn obvious that the old builds no longer work. Slamming you head against the wall over and over again with the same builds will get you no where.
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.
Good luck on convincing blizzard to change their mind... It seems like no one is preparing for the contrary.
I'm looking for something bro. The problem is, MKP, Mvp, and Byun all don't have vods from their streams.
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On June 24 2012 09:48 Crookie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:45 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:35 Ace.Xile wrote:On June 24 2012 09:25 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:22 mememolly wrote:On June 24 2012 09:19 EienShinwa wrote:On June 24 2012 09:15 mememolly wrote:
too early to tell, the days of running hellions into the main to auto gg are over, you need to get over that fact
also, if the Z is building like 4-6 queens they are playing defensive, think about that Not when those 4-6 queens allow you to take a third without having any other units than drones and spread creep more than halfway across the map at 8 minutes. They are not playing defensive, they are playing GREEDY. rines and marauders are good units to push with to deny 3rd, force units etc, just building hellions you will have problems Just to have them make 30 speedlings as soon as they see your marines and marauders move out of your base? This is the problem the insanely fast creep spread(due to queen spam) and overlord speed gave to TvZ. The overlord speed would have been sufficient, and needed, but the queen buff is just unreasonable. I don't see how people can argue that the queen buff radically changed creep spread, it just gave a huge incentive to mass queens so that they could defend early rushes. Yes now it is easier to spread creep but that's largely in part due to the fact that zergs now have 4 or 5 queens out before they even have a 3rd because they now realize how much easier it is to hold off aggression. It's like terrans think that EVERYTHING changed with a range buff and it didn't stop over exaggerating. What people seem to not understand is the snowball effect of the queen buff and overlord buff gave to the matchup. Just saw two terran streamers give up today (Demuslim and Dragon) after playing Zerg. lol, not implying anything, but I don't remember seeing Demuslim do that before. I would like to go ahead and mention that Demuslim used builds from pre-patch. He did not use queens in anyway and complaining that zerg is OP based upon that game is simply arguing that zerg was overpowered before the patch. And I'm sorry to say that if you think that's the case, youre delusional.
Why so aggressive? I even stated I'm not implying anything? Holy shit, you're really quick to jump the gun and pounce on anyone who thinks the recent patches were unbalanced.
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On June 24 2012 09:36 tranmillitary wrote:
The only thing i hate about these patches.... NOT ALL TERRAN'S CAN PLAY LIKE MVP AND MKP.
I'm pretty sure in masters and diamond leagues on NA.... the majority of players are Toss or zerg. When i play a Terran, i Laugh. I'm pretty sure if they nerf Terran anymore, there's gonna be like less than 20 percent terrans in the Masters or diamond leagues.
Bad argument man. We should only be worried about the balance when Mvp and MKP play. They are the best of the best. The fastest of the fastest. If they can't win vs Z (less than 20 winrate, which is what they are at now) something is wrong.
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On June 24 2012 09:54 Sroobz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:36 tranmillitary wrote:
The only thing i hate about these patches.... NOT ALL TERRAN'S CAN PLAY LIKE MVP AND MKP.
I'm pretty sure in masters and diamond leagues on NA.... the majority of players are Toss or zerg. When i play a Terran, i Laugh. I'm pretty sure if they nerf Terran anymore, there's gonna be like less than 20 percent terrans in the Masters or diamond leagues. Bad argument man. We should only be worried about the balance when Mvp and MKP play. They are the best of the best. The fastest of the fastest. If they can't win vs Z (less than 20 winrate, which is what they are at now) something is wrong.
I know that a single game isn't much of a smaple size, but in the NASL, Dimaga just got smashed by Ganzi earlygame using hellions. The queen buff doesn't have a massive effect on hellion harass AFTER it gets into the main (if the main is big enough)
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EPT
