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This thread is going nowhere and I'm tired of dealing with it. Either drop the personal attacks and whining and replace it with actual discussion or it'll be closed.
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On June 24 2012 12:36 Inquisitor1323 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 12:12 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
Hide nested quote -
Claiming Zerg imba based on queens is like this, or at least I feel it is.
Say you're driving your car downhill, and that you have run out of gas. (Suppose you didn't notice the engine stopped and that your fuel gauge was broken.) Now let's say you pull into a garage, still coasting downhill,
No in a ways he was in fact correct. The Queen patch only looks overpowered because lack of Terran Lategame versus Zerg. This queen patch exposed the underlying core of TvZ: extremely weak terran lategame. If Terran had a stronger lategame then the queens would not be as strong as they are now because Terran would be able to abuse economic stratagies that would favor their lategame over the zergs'. However, zergs have the uperhand as of right now even if terrans abuse triple orbital builds.
Yeah I agree with him there. This patch is bad because zerg lategame now happens a lot more often.
a lot more often? i wouldnt say a lot more but it is easier for zerg to spread creep due to this patch only because queens are made a lot faster earlier in the game. If zerg knew creep was as good as it is nowadays, they wouldve done the similar build before the patch also. late game in TvZ was hard for terran before and after the patch. so... lets see how things go in HOTS
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On June 24 2012 12:51 Haustka wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 12:36 Inquisitor1323 wrote:On June 24 2012 12:12 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
Hide nested quote -
Claiming Zerg imba based on queens is like this, or at least I feel it is.
Say you're driving your car downhill, and that you have run out of gas. (Suppose you didn't notice the engine stopped and that your fuel gauge was broken.) Now let's say you pull into a garage, still coasting downhill,
No in a ways he was in fact correct. The Queen patch only looks overpowered because lack of Terran Lategame versus Zerg. This queen patch exposed the underlying core of TvZ: extremely weak terran lategame. If Terran had a stronger lategame then the queens would not be as strong as they are now because Terran would be able to abuse economic stratagies that would favor their lategame over the zergs'. However, zergs have the uperhand as of right now even if terrans abuse triple orbital builds.
Yeah I agree with him there. This patch is bad because zerg lategame now happens a lot more often. a lot more often? i wouldnt say a lot more but it is easier for zerg to spread creep due to this patch only because queens are made a lot faster earlier in the game. If zerg knew creep was as good as it is nowadays, they wouldve done the similar build before the patch also. late game in TvZ was hard for terran before and after the patch. so... lets see how things go in HOTS
This seems like a really bad way to "balance" the game. Blizzard should be exploring more options rather than just making a stop gap.
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On June 24 2012 12:31 ][Primarch][ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 12:25 Fission wrote:On June 24 2012 12:21 ][Primarch][ wrote:On June 24 2012 12:19 Fission wrote:On June 24 2012 12:11 biology]major wrote:On June 24 2012 10:21 Crookie wrote:On June 24 2012 10:06 yeint wrote:On June 24 2012 10:00 Crookie wrote:On June 24 2012 09:49 c0sm0naut wrote:On June 24 2012 09:43 Crookie wrote:
I dont know why I tried. TL just isnt the same community anymore.... Just a bunch of whining about every patch and nothing even attempted to try and fix the problem.. so marines get +2 range how do you feel? if you come share your opinion on it here i'll tell you it's a meta thing and that you just need to adapt. newsflash: you're on a starcraft 2 website and you clicked the forum button, and then this topic. you're not going to change people's opinions by coming in here and championing a meta-solution to this, so i don't really understand why you're disappointed. If you honestly think the queen change was as bad as a plus 2 range increase to marines, youre delusional. If you actually read my post, you'd see that I said that I did not expect my solution to be an end-all be-all to the current problems terran has. I find it hard to believe that people have been playing brood war for over 10 years and still new builds to do while terran has supposedly "tried everything" in the first two years of SC2. Maybe the buff was too much? How do we even know yet? Nothing new has even been suggested yet and once again I ask to see vods of new things that have been attempted. Not once has someone offered any proof. Still, all this is is a bunch of unproven complaints. I am dissappointed that the website that is supposed to be the number one source for SC2 discussion and strategy has succumbed to a giant terran QQ circle jerk, where no one cares for anything other than quoted previous balance whines and pouting that ABSOLUTLY NOTHING can be done to try to fix the problem at hand. Having fun sitting in this thread, crying for months for blizzard to fix the game. This thread has really made a large amount of progress in solving the problem. Carry on the way you guys are going. Maybe if we reach 200 pages of crying, blizzard will revert the change and starcraft will be saved!!!~~!!!! Pathetic Amazing argument. You're taking the "try different things" route and tacking a "do that for 10 years" corollary on top. A completely unnecessary, thoughtless, untested balance change was introduced and it completely broke the matchup. There was nothing wrong with TvZ. It was balanced and fun to watch. This idiotic change broke it. Lets keep crying shall we? After 80 pages of complaining, weve made so much progress so far! Fuck actually trying to do anything about it. Crying on TL is the way to go!! Great work guys! usually crying is pointless, but we need blizzard to take action. The way things are now, they won't patch the game till HoTs, meaning if you make a living playing terran you are completely fucked for 1 year. It is very rare when so many pros blatantly argue for not even slight imbalance or slightly too strong, but they come out and say the matchup is almost unwinnable and broken. This cannot be ignored by blizzard, and they need to acknowledge the fact that they fucked up big time. So yes, every terran continue to qq till blizzard notices. Blizzard isn't changing a thing, so just quit if you think it's broken. Personally, I think 20% win rate is just fine. If it gets to 0% then there's obviously a problem, but we're nowhere near that. if you think a 20% win ratio is fine that makes you look a bit silly. or are you just trolling? If they weren't worse players then they wouldn't be losing. It's pretty simple. haha ok you are actually being silly  dats ok
Keep practicing guys, things will work out in the end, i promise
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On June 24 2012 12:40 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 12:36 Inquisitor1323 wrote:On June 24 2012 12:12 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
Hide nested quote -
Claiming Zerg imba based on queens is like this, or at least I feel it is.
Say you're driving your car downhill, and that you have run out of gas. (Suppose you didn't notice the engine stopped and that your fuel gauge was broken.) Now let's say you pull into a garage, still coasting downhill,
No in a ways he was in fact correct. The Queen patch only looks overpowered because lack of Terran Lategame versus Zerg. This queen patch exposed the underlying core of TvZ: extremely weak terran lategame. If Terran had a stronger lategame then the queens would not be as strong as they are now because Terran would be able to abuse economic stratagies that would favor their lategame over the zergs'. However, zergs have the uperhand as of right now even if terrans abuse triple orbital builds.
Yeah I agree with him there. This patch is bad because zerg lategame now happens a lot more often. Its not that Terran lategame is weak. I think Zerg lategame is just simply good and possibly too much so. I mean, protoss relies heavily on archon toilets. While Zerg like to complain about it, I want to be honest as a protoss, I wish I didn't need to rely on it most of the time.
No, actually Terran's late game is weak. But I'll agree with the second part that Zerg's late game is super strong. Also, I would tend to agree with you that Protoss have to rely on Archon toilet in late game v. Zerg. Otherwise, as we learned with Oz at the GSL, Protoss can't even compete with Zerg in the late game either.
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Terran's are still mad they cant deny scouting,creep and thirds with 4-6 hellions? This thread is gold.
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On June 24 2012 12:51 Haustka wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 12:36 Inquisitor1323 wrote:On June 24 2012 12:12 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
Hide nested quote -
Claiming Zerg imba based on queens is like this, or at least I feel it is.
Say you're driving your car downhill, and that you have run out of gas. (Suppose you didn't notice the engine stopped and that your fuel gauge was broken.) Now let's say you pull into a garage, still coasting downhill,
No in a ways he was in fact correct. The Queen patch only looks overpowered because lack of Terran Lategame versus Zerg. This queen patch exposed the underlying core of TvZ: extremely weak terran lategame. If Terran had a stronger lategame then the queens would not be as strong as they are now because Terran would be able to abuse economic stratagies that would favor their lategame over the zergs'. However, zergs have the uperhand as of right now even if terrans abuse triple orbital builds.
Yeah I agree with him there. This patch is bad because zerg lategame now happens a lot more often. a lot more often? i wouldnt say a lot more but it is easier for zerg to spread creep due to this patch only because queens are made a lot faster earlier in the game. If zerg knew creep was as good as it is nowadays, they wouldve done the similar build before the patch also. late game in TvZ was hard for terran before and after the patch. so... lets see how things go in HOTS
Well, it happens a lot faster at any rate. Vision of nearly the entire map and all the likely attack paths=no need to make units=drones+money to spend on tech=lategame before terran even hits the midgame swing they had previously.
I'll be honest here-i think this is all mainly to blame on the huge upswing in the infestor's popularity. With the infestor, zerg feels comfortable turtling on 3-4 base because fungal+hive tech is nigh-on unstoppable without excellent micro and switching between ultras and blords is absolute murder on a terran. Instead of the scrappy ling+bling+muta or ling+bling+festor, we get festor+queen+as few fighting units as possible until they can just spam hive tech units out and roll over terran or toss. And with the queen buff, they need even less fighting units and can get to hive tech even faster.
Also, as a side note-when a zerg can take a 6 minute third base against T and not worry about pressure because 6 queens defends any non-allin and they get incredible vision and can see allins with ovies and then spam units, something is wrong with the game. A race should not be able to be ridiculously greedy and still defend an allin :/
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On June 24 2012 12:53 VPVanek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 12:51 Haustka wrote:On June 24 2012 12:36 Inquisitor1323 wrote:On June 24 2012 12:12 Inquisitor1323 wrote:
Hide nested quote -
Claiming Zerg imba based on queens is like this, or at least I feel it is.
Say you're driving your car downhill, and that you have run out of gas. (Suppose you didn't notice the engine stopped and that your fuel gauge was broken.) Now let's say you pull into a garage, still coasting downhill,
No in a ways he was in fact correct. The Queen patch only looks overpowered because lack of Terran Lategame versus Zerg. This queen patch exposed the underlying core of TvZ: extremely weak terran lategame. If Terran had a stronger lategame then the queens would not be as strong as they are now because Terran would be able to abuse economic stratagies that would favor their lategame over the zergs'. However, zergs have the uperhand as of right now even if terrans abuse triple orbital builds.
Yeah I agree with him there. This patch is bad because zerg lategame now happens a lot more often. a lot more often? i wouldnt say a lot more but it is easier for zerg to spread creep due to this patch only because queens are made a lot faster earlier in the game. If zerg knew creep was as good as it is nowadays, they wouldve done the similar build before the patch also. late game in TvZ was hard for terran before and after the patch. so... lets see how things go in HOTS This seems like a really bad way to "balance" the game. Blizzard should be exploring more options rather than just making a stop gap.
What Blizzard could do is slow down queen speed slightly, more than before but not as much as now. And also, 1 queen per hatch costs 150, but additional queens passed the 1:1 queen to hatch ratio should cost additional minerals and/or gas.
Reasons: I play Terran and Protoss, both at top 8 master. With Protoss, Zergs can easily scout whatever you are doing. As a matter of fact there is no cost to this scouting decision. Before Zergs had to be more strategic with overlord placement to scout and count gas #s, and/or to sac overlords for information. Now, Zergs can send overlords in, which won't even die and have near perfect scouting (I only said "near perfect" because I don't want to preclude the possibility that some buildings were proxied)
As Terran, even with marines patrolling, Zergs can poke in on enough sides to see whatever you are doing. So not only does Zerg have the best beginning game scouting and mid-game scouting, but with creep, mass overlords and lings, Zerg also has by far the best intel in late game as well. So all throughout the game Zerg essentially has the best scouting ability. This means that any decent or even bad player knows with near perfect information when to drone and when to make units and there is no cost to this information-- no tough decisions that must be made.
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On June 24 2012 12:17 redruMBunny wrote:Show nested quote +I think it's cute that Zerg and Protoss think that Terrans are just on the forums whining when half of us have multiple Terran streams open just to see if there's a new solid build that we can steal so we don't have to resort to cheesing every Zerg. I don't think it's whining that Terrans complain about queen buff. Well, generally. But waiting around to steal builds, and trying to be highhanded to avoid cheese . . . it's like saying you don't even have an opinion that's worth considering and that you simultaneously think games need to go to macro before they're legitimate games. But if you let zerg go crazy macro drone heavy, isn't that a problem? It's saying go ahead do what you want, and after you can roll over me, I'll get mad when you do. That can't be right. I don't think it's cheesy to punish a player that gets greedy, any more than I think it's wrong to build marauders if I've scouted a roach-heavy army.
I have an opinion about the matchup and I have an opinion about what units are good and what units are bad. I've just gotten tired of losing to players that are so greedy and I can't do anything to punish that besides 1 base all-in's. I don't think that, in fact I've been trying builds too - but it's just absolutely painful because zergs can be so safe against aggression.
I literally don't care about playing macro games, I just want to win. But reducing the TvZ matchup, that had an amazing early/mid game - and if I did enough damage, a MANAGEABLE late game, to what I amount to is either I cheese and do lots of damage and maybe get even, or I don't cheese and just lose after wasting 20-30 minutes in the game.
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All this whining because of a few extra energy on queens. Lets say for example they put queens back to how it was pre patch. You think zergs will stop doing wat they do now? No, you can garauntee they will do the exact same thing now that they know how good it is. Obvously won't be AS strong as it is now, but it wont be far off.
Think way back when almost no one used infestor.. then they gave them a buff, now everyone uses them even when they were nerfed again. That goes for most units that were changed.
Like i said earlier in this thread, a bit of extra energy and range on queens is not enough to change the match up completely as you are all making out.
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On June 24 2012 12:35 redruMBunny wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 11:56 SnipedSoul wrote:
So the matchup was broken before blizzard changed the queen? That is, was the ZvT matchup broken before the queen buff? I think it was broken twice. I think Terrans couldn't really let the Zerg get to late game and that that was a problem, and I think Zerg had problems dealing with Hellion kiting. And to be clear, not so much the "one thing" of hellions - it wasn't that they could hit your drones, it wasn't that they could kite queens, but it was that all in all it added up to restricting Zerg scouting and harass, containing creep, and forcing Zerg to play along particular lines, without committing Terran gas to any particular tech path.
no zerg that is worth anything has trouble with Hellions. consistent trouble, not just the OOPS LET SOME HELLIONS RUN THROUGH MY BAD LOL, GG, but like OH MY GOD HELLIONS ARE ANNOYING. Literally no zerg. Hellions were incredibly useful for their cost, and as much of a mistake as that might be in the zerg's eyes, it was still the most balanced matchup in the game.
Take away the hellion's ability to pressure (aka this patch) and look what we get. Utter chaos.
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On June 24 2012 13:05 Reaps wrote:
All this whining because of a few extra energy on queens. Lets say for example they put queens back to how it was pre patch. You think zergs will stop doing wat they do now? No, you can garauntee they will do the exact same thing now that they know how good it is. Obvously won't be AS strong as it is now, but it wont be far off.
Think way back when almost no one used infestor.. then they gave them a buff, now everyone uses them even when they were nerfed again. That goes for most units that were changed.
Like i said earlier in this thread, a bit of extra energy and range on queens is not enough to change the match up completely as you are all making out.
What extra energy? They just got the range buff. Are you playing this game?
And yes, it does make a huge difference. If you can't see it, then don't even comment. It's like discussing music to a deaf person.
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On June 24 2012 13:05 Reaps wrote:
All this whining because of a few extra energy on queens. Lets say for example they put queens back to how it was pre patch. You think zergs will stop doing wat they do now? No, you can garauntee they will do the exact same thing now that they know how good it is. Obvously won't be AS strong as it is now, but it wont be far off.
Think way back when almost no one used infestor.. then they gave them a buff, now everyone uses them even when they were nerfed again. That goes for most units that were changed.
Like i said earlier in this thread, a bit of extra energy and range on queens is not enough to change the match up completely as you are all making out.
Errrrr... you would be able to deny creep with hellions again for one thing..
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On June 24 2012 13:16 VPVanek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 13:05 Reaps wrote:
All this whining because of a few extra energy on queens. Lets say for example they put queens back to how it was pre patch. You think zergs will stop doing wat they do now? No, you can garauntee they will do the exact same thing now that they know how good it is. Obvously won't be AS strong as it is now, but it wont be far off.
Think way back when almost no one used infestor.. then they gave them a buff, now everyone uses them even when they were nerfed again. That goes for most units that were changed.
Like i said earlier in this thread, a bit of extra energy and range on queens is not enough to change the match up completely as you are all making out. Errrrr... you would be able to deny creep with hellions again for one thing..
With 6 queens? Errrr... ok
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On June 24 2012 13:20 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 13:16 VPVanek wrote:On June 24 2012 13:05 Reaps wrote:
All this whining because of a few extra energy on queens. Lets say for example they put queens back to how it was pre patch. You think zergs will stop doing wat they do now? No, you can garauntee they will do the exact same thing now that they know how good it is. Obvously won't be AS strong as it is now, but it wont be far off.
Think way back when almost no one used infestor.. then they gave them a buff, now everyone uses them even when they were nerfed again. That goes for most units that were changed.
Like i said earlier in this thread, a bit of extra energy and range on queens is not enough to change the match up completely as you are all making out. Errrrr... you would be able to deny creep with hellions again for one thing.. With 6 queens? Errrr... ok
Yes, unlike the queens with sniper rifles.
Pre patch queens you could kite and deny creep.
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On June 24 2012 13:05 Reaps wrote:
All this whining because of a few extra energy on queens. Lets say for example they put queens back to how it was pre patch. You think zergs will stop doing wat they do now? No, you can garauntee they will do the exact same thing now that they know how good it is. Obvously won't be AS strong as it is now, but it wont be far off.
Think way back when almost no one used infestor.. then they gave them a buff, now everyone uses them even when they were nerfed again. That goes for most units that were changed.
Like i said earlier in this thread, a bit of extra energy and range on queens is not enough to change the match up completely as you are all making out.
it is. The creep denial denied zergs from defending fast third because queens were too slow to get there. Also, there was the awesome dynamic of spine crawler jumping and good hellion control vs speedlings. Plus hiding creep tumors and for the terran being aware of them. It changed everything
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On June 24 2012 13:20 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 13:16 VPVanek wrote:On June 24 2012 13:05 Reaps wrote:
All this whining because of a few extra energy on queens. Lets say for example they put queens back to how it was pre patch. You think zergs will stop doing wat they do now? No, you can garauntee they will do the exact same thing now that they know how good it is. Obvously won't be AS strong as it is now, but it wont be far off.
Think way back when almost no one used infestor.. then they gave them a buff, now everyone uses them even when they were nerfed again. That goes for most units that were changed.
Like i said earlier in this thread, a bit of extra energy and range on queens is not enough to change the match up completely as you are all making out. Errrrr... you would be able to deny creep with hellions again for one thing.. With 6 queens? Errrr... ok
yeah i agree, zerg will still be super strong even if they revert the queen change. 6 queen opennings with super early thirds are really really strong, and it was discovered because of the patch. Yes reverting the change would make it worse, but it would still be completely viable and possible.
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On June 24 2012 08:53 Crookie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 08:46 Sroobz wrote:On June 24 2012 08:37 Crookie wrote:On June 24 2012 08:32 xrapture wrote:
I don't understand why some people are arguing in favor of balance.
Almost EVERY pro Terran-- yea that's right pro not random poster on TL-- says the matchup became completely imbalanced after the Queen buff.
Hell, DRG, Catz, idra, and Stephano even say Z has the advantage-- DRG even laughed in an interview and said he wants a group with 3 Terrans.
MKP said his winrate in tvz went from 60% to 10%. Ryung says he can't even beat NA Zergs. If you are INSANELY better than your opponent, you should win.
No bullshit about "metagame" should even come into discussion. Ryung should roll Ostojiy 10 times in a row, but this patch has really made it impossible for Terran to take advantage of being more skilled because literally nothing in the game can punish mass queen/drone 3 base.
Hell, watch Dimaga vs Brat-ok at Dreamhack. 9 Queens, 3 base, 80 drones at 8:30. That should NOT be standard or possible. I have not once seen any terrans try anything besides the old pre-patch build. Open your eyes dude. All I'm seeing is failed attempts at new builds/timings from Terrans. Maybe I have just missed the games. Do you happen to have the links to any vods, perhaps? I would like to see the new builds. Maybe the answer is to not try to kill the zerg early, and just know that if he is going mass queen, he will not be able to put on any pressure. This allows you to play greedily.
Open your eyes dude, every game I have seen of Terran trying to play Greedy against mass queen 70 drone 3+ base opening fails, because zerg scouts it, and either out greeds the Terran and still wins in lategame, or switch's into a 2 base all-in that the Terran cannot prevent, because he is playing greedy and has no army count.
Saying Terran should just play jsut as greedy as zerg is asinine, and implausible.. If Terran plays greedy, even a semi decent zerg will just switch into mass unit production and roll over the armyless Terran... If the Terran trys to outgreed a zerg, and the zerg decides too, the Zerg will just go up to 5+ bases to the Terrans 3, and just win late game anyways..
Zerg's crying about hellion openings are stupied, because the hellion openings ((at least for me, when i started using them)) where to prevent sLing bLing play, more than dealing damage. Sure, I would contain a zerg on 2 bases, but not for 10 minutes, all the hellions were for was to force the zerg into a different tech path than mass sLing bLing.. Zergs are crybabys, that have not experimented with their race what-so-freakin-ever. Instead of telling Terrans to just come up with new stuff, why dont zergs actually experiment.((If zergs recieved half as many nerfs as Terran, Zergs would actually have more than 2 openings, and wouldnt cry op about something like a hellion opening that isnt about killing, but about slowing down))
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Anyone ever see this?
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5889449897
This is fucking hilarious. I fucking DARE someone to say TvZ doesn't have a problem after seeing this. I guess it's all just part of the metagame to have this w/l? LOL, fuck this shit.
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If you notice every single high level terran game what do you see? some variant of triple oc and double ebay
why do you think this is? they are letting the zerg go to 70 drones, so they deserve to lose right?
You probably don't actually play the game, but there is actually no way to stop zerg from going 70 drones by 8 minutes unless you do some super 2 base timing (usually allin if fails to do any damage), and 6 queens + lings easily stop everything.
Aren't you saying that triple OC and double ebay isn't quite working out? But isn't that what you saw prepatch anyways? So maybe triple OC and double ebay is wrong, is what I'm saying.
If the triple OC and double ebay are wrong, you're saying, then why are pros still using it? At least I think that is your point. That is, isn't your argument and the argument of many others that because the pros say it's a problem, it's a problem? But I think it could be because the pros have just been slow to adapt.
Just because pros do something doesn't mean it's inherently and empirically right. What if pros think the queen buff hasn't really changed things to the degree that they should have to change their playstyle? (and what if pros are wrong about this and are losing TvZ as a result?) What if the pros are busy for the season so don't have the time to adequately practice to correctly counter? Etc. etc.
So if I found a bunch of Korean pros that felt the queen buff was proper and right, then what? Does that make other posters concerns invalid? I don't think so. I think some posters consider the queen buff to be a problem in and of itself, and I think they have valid reasons, as I've already expressed (although not for some time as I've been posting pro-queen buff). Although a lot of what I've written has been in favor of the queen buff, that still doesn't mean I think it's 100% correct and necessary, or that I think other arguments have no validity.
But consider this - wasn't it recently that one of the pros ran a 0/0 upgrade game, showing switching resources off from upgrades can work successfully, after at least months of everyone going ups? Then what is it about DRG style and Stephano style and Marineking style or however many other styles that are titled after player names? I think it's because the scene adapts, but slowly, especially now because as I mentioned, this is a busy season for SC2 pros. I don't think they have a load of time to screw around trying to invent new timing attacks. Besides that, the answer for each player may be a bit different. Stephano style works for Stephano because of his micro, his ability to assess things so well on the fly, and a lot of other Stephano-ish qualities. But it might not work so well for even another player, even an S-rank Korean pro. It isn't just like there's one standard answer that will work for all players.
Besides that, ability to deal with queens isn't just about building some counter. It's a question of executing counters, not just conceptualizing them. If you have a counter that you think may work decently, but you can't quite get a hold of it, it makes sense that you might try a method that's more tried and true than a new animal that you're not quite sure of. Like, suppose you wanted to go to the grocery store to get a pint of ice cream, or if you want to say it's an important trip, to go to the hospital to see a baby get born (maybe a new brother/sister, maybe a son/daughter, who knows?) In any event, does it make sense to jump in a rocket powered car that travels a minimum of 200 mph, especially if you know your nerves are going to be pent up? Sure it might theoretically do the job better, but if you're used to traveling by motor scooter at 30 mph, you might figure your chances of making it to your destination would be better if you used the slow scooter. Now consider that if you're not even sure of executing your counter properly, you will be even that much less sure because you'll be afraid of an opponent's possible counters that your counter can't deal with. It's all unknown and potentially very problematic, so stick with what works, even if it works less successfully.
Etc. etc. There are so many reasons why a good answer to queen buff may not be being demonstrated by pros yet, so I think people basing arguments based simply on pro play and win percentages is premature. Five months from now, okay, the slow winter season comes on and players have time to innovate. But for now, I think it's certainly too early to say.
I watched a replay of deMuslim's interview at I think it was MLG. Apparently he didn't think the queen buff was imba to begin with, but he changed his mind after listening to other players. What if deMuslim was right in the first place and the others were wrong?
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6queen openings probably would still be just as effective against hellion openings if the change was reverted because hellions damage queens too slowly to even outdamage transfuse. most zergs could easily justdrop half the tumors and transfuse and still beat the hellions
but 3range queens got slaughtered by bio timings so 6queen openings at least had a hardcounter and didnt defend everything at 3range
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EPT
